Re: anti cure (was A.F.F Must ...)

[Guest guest]

There is a radical side to pro-cure as well.There is a difference

between pro cure and anti-acceptence of the individual. Autism is a

disability, it has nothing to do with replacing the person.

Yet for most part the concept of a cure is subjectable in meaning,

quality of life improvements are part of what is reffered to as a cure.

A.F.F is trying to stop vitial funding needed for research.

>

> > Anti-Cure is Anti-Quality of life in the most fundamental ways

> > and anti-cure is radicalism.

>

> Why can't one be in favor of quality of life issues for

> autistics, and still be anti-cure? For example, a lot of the

> self-advocacy items out there are quality of life issues, often

> with an anti-cure bent.

>

> If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a

> convention that we should want to be " cured " of autism.

>

[Guest guest]

"If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a convention that we should want to be "cured" of autism."Really you are saying that you wouldnt want to be cured of yourself, autism is a disability.You are not autism, those who are disabled by autism and not themselves should have every right to be cured of symtoms that are disabling.A.F.F is more radical then it has ever been. A.F.F is doing people with autism a great injustice.New Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

I am aware that my autism is not me - but I have been affected by

autism, by having the disability it has affected who I am.

I don't think personally I would like to be cured of autism as there

are positive aspects to it.

Yes it would be nice to be rid of the negative aspects, but I don't

think I would be able to pick and chose like that.

If I were to get rid of my autism would I lose my ability to hyper

focus (which can be very useful), would I lose my love of research,

would I lose my sense of wonder, creativity?

I think I have far too much too lose. I'd love to be without the

meltdowns and a lot of the other difficulties/disabilities, but being

creative and having a sense of wonder and the other positives I

mentioned are part of me - who would I be without them?

>

> " If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a

> convention that we should want to be " cured " of autism. "

>

>

> Really you are saying that you wouldnt want to be cured of

yourself, autism is a disability.You are not autism, those who are

disabled by autism and not themselves should have every right to be

cured of symtoms that are disabling.

>

> A.F.F is more radical then it has ever been. A.F.F is doing people

with autism a great injustice.

>

>

>

>

> New Song

> http://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

>

> ---------------------------------

> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using

Messenger with Voice.

>

[Guest guest]

I think autism is to much percieved as self, through what is shared in

personal traits, you will find others who do not share traits and are

entirelly different.

The bottom line is, cure is a bad word, really it should be focusing

on bettering through research.

No individual has the rights over another who would like a cure. No

matter what people say or propaganize, its the individuals rights over

the group ideologies.

> >

> > " If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a

> > convention that we should want to be " cured " of autism. "

> >

> >

> > Really you are saying that you wouldnt want to be cured of

> yourself, autism is a disability.You are not autism, those who are

> disabled by autism and not themselves should have every right to be

> cured of symtoms that are disabling.

> >

> > A.F.F is more radical then it has ever been. A.F.F is doing people

> with autism a great injustice.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > New Song

> > http://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using

> Messenger with Voice.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I hear what you are saying.

Some aspects petaining to myself are definitely due to autism - that

is clear, like social communication difficulties, stimming etc; but

there are other areas of myself that is hard to know whether are due

to autism or not. I am quite sure the ability to hyper focus is due

to autism from what I understand.

I do not like extreme views either way. Helping people with autism

can be good - as long as it is not forced and causing damage, which

unfortunately has sometimes been the case.

As for AFF, from what I have seen and heard of them, they do come

across as power hungry and the fact that they shut out those who

disagree with them does not potray them well.

Help with co-morbids is definitely a good idea and there are

therapies out there that can help like cognitive behaviour therapy

and such, Tony Attwood has developed a form of cognitive behviour

therapy to help people with Aspergers.

> > >

> > > " If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a

> > > convention that we should want to be " cured " of autism. "

> > >

> > >

> > > Really you are saying that you wouldnt want to be cured of

> > yourself, autism is a disability.You are not autism, those who

are

> > disabled by autism and not themselves should have every right to

be

> > cured of symtoms that are disabling.

> > >

> > > A.F.F is more radical then it has ever been. A.F.F is doing

people

> > with autism a great injustice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > New Song

> > > http://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls

using

> > Messenger with Voice.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't like that Tony Atwood one bit, I don't like P.R doctors, also

he linked to A.F.F for a while on his site. Last time I checked it was

removed, A really odd smile as well on that infamious book. I don't

like it one bit.

> > > >

> > > > " If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a

> > > > convention that we should want to be " cured " of autism. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Really you are saying that you wouldnt want to be cured of

> > > yourself, autism is a disability.You are not autism, those who

> are

> > > disabled by autism and not themselves should have every right to

> be

> > > cured of symtoms that are disabling.

> > > >

> > > > A.F.F is more radical then it has ever been. A.F.F is doing

> people

> > > with autism a great injustice.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > New Song

> > > > http://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls

> using

> > > Messenger with Voice.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Go make up your own specrumalized psuedo logic with some other group

of people, it's nonsense. Therei s no such thing as N.T and it only

serves as a divide, people are people, there is no such thing as aspie

or n.t, the reverse labels are redicilious and illogical.

You inability to understand just how far gone you are mentally becuase

of your labeling and constricted groupisms by similar social

conditiones goes to show your flawed logic.

Autism is a disability, your anti-establishment and you are not qualified.

None of you are.. Aslo your in another country.

>

> :

> > Your brain washed N.T nonsense is ignorance, there

> > is no N.T conspiricy against people with autism.

>

> Look, , I suppose next you will tell me that

> we have been persecuted by social authorities more

> than 10 years, and that this is not persecution, but

> some kind altruistic act?

>

> > It's all part of that social programming.

>

> What social programming? I've not been programmed.

> My views of autism (and my family) was present long

> before I ever knew what it was and before I meet

> others. If anything, it is *your* social programming

> that makes you unable to see the Aspie - NT

> continuum and the persecution.

>

> Leif

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > " If that concept is radical, it's only so in relation to a

> > > convention that we should want to be " cured " of autism. "

> > >

> > >

> > > Really you are saying that you wouldnt want to be cured of

> > yourself, autism is a disability.You are not autism, those who

are

> > disabled by autism and not themselves should have every right to

be

> > cured of symtoms that are disabling.

> > >

> > > A.F.F is more radical then it has ever been. A.F.F is doing

people

> > with autism a great injustice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > New Song

> > > http://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls

using

> > Messenger with Voice.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Leif said:

" My goals are to persuade researchers to change perspective.

My goals are not really in organizing support groups or

things like that. Others can do this better than I can.

" I've explictly told people that wanted to cooperate with me

that I would not partake in any research activities that I find

not useful or hurtful for autistics. That certainly includes all

disorder research on basic, autistic traits. It does not include

comorbidities. "

Okay. Then why don't we all stop sqabbling and see if we can start

thinking of ideas about how we can work together?

had the ideas of an for a multi-board e-mail list. That's a

good start. What about putting a bunch of petitions on his site that

people can log into and sign? After we have enough signatures, we

can send them into folks we are petitioning.

" ...but I don't control AFF, so I cannot do much about their

policies and behaviors. "

You can withdraw from their Autism Assembly and their site like the

rest of us did and encourage others to do the same.

" I can also remind people of what went on as Gareth was part of this

forum. It wasn't exactly pretty. "

That's a good idea. And you can send them to Maurice's site where

certain details are still available despite AFFs legal attempts

against him.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Why don't we make a functional alternative?

Tom

Administrator

" You can withdraw from their Autism Assembly and their site like the

rest of us did and encourage others to do the same. "

Not until there is a functional alternative.

Leif

[Guest guest]

I don't believe in cure - help yes - cure no. There are positives to

autism as well as negatives - I like to try and keep a balanced view.

There are proggrammes in the UK I am very wary of, they teach social

skills, which is all well and good, but these very programmes use the

words 'normalization'. The goal of these programmes is to normalize

the person. I question what the heck is normalization.

I have met aspies who have been on these programmes - they've learnt

the social skill, but it's all done robot style - it's all false,

it's not real - they still do not understand. I know if I desired I

too could learn to appear as normal as possible - do the social

skills etc, but what would it benefit me - I would still not

understand it - it would be acting without meaning. I could (and can)

understand some of the social stuff from a theoretical point of view,

but in practice still makes no sense.

For example I have come to terms with/accepted that a lot of social

communication involves lying, manipulation etc. For example the 'how

are you?' to which the supposed correct response is 'I'm fine and

you' or whatever - it is more of a form of greeting, but makes

absolutely no sense. If you do not want to know how someone is don't

ask - if it is a form of greeting - just say hello!

The way I view a lot of social communication is that it involves much

pretending and ulterior motives. People smiling and being nice whilst

stabbing you in the back. If this is what normalization is - I don't

want it. If this is what being cured of autism is then I don't want

that either.

Sorry bit of a rant there - of course I respect that there are some

who are socially adept without being nasty and all the other negative

traits.

>

> > I do not like extreme views either way. Helping people with

> > autism can be good - as long as it is not forced and causing

> > damage, which unfortunately has sometimes been the case.

>

> My take is that if there is something called " cure " but it is

> really a way of teaching people (autistics) to recognize some

> things related to autism, than I could accept that. Not the

> " cure " part; only the part about the education. Likewise, if I

> had more of a verbalization issue, I would use a voicewriter

> (talking keyboard).

>

> But consider what a " cure " in the sense of making one into an NT

> entails. The only drug shown to have effect was taken off the

> market after Lauretta Bender's experiments. In this regard,

> Leary was correct, but who is willing to go back to

> treating autistics with LSD? (Leary suggested to self medicate

> and self regulate, as opposed to Lauretta Bender's ritalin-like

> daily regimen. But he was also talking about " mind expansion "

> and not cure as described by Lauretta Bender.

>

> (Lauretta Bender's articles had such titles as " LSD-25 Helps

> Schizophrenic Children " , identifying autism as childhood

> schizophrenia.)

>

> http://www.neurodiversity.com/library_index.html

>

> If you're looking for a cure that isn't a euphanism for

> education, then:

> 1) you're either in favor of LSD-type experiments, or

> 2) you have what you think is a better idea.

>

> And if it is effective, would you want to do it? If it was

> proven safe (which could easily be done, clinically), AND if it

> actually was a cure and not expanded education... then would you

> do it?

>

> My personal answer is no. At least not if it's a cure.

>

> - s

>

[Guest guest]

This is my experience of interacting with others as well,

particuarly NT's. They want to know your business and will go all

out to find it out and if not make it up to be something they can be

nasty about. They will pick on some minor detail about your life,

like say, the colour of your car and pick on you for it in a way

that I think is totally ridiculouse and suggests to me that they

must have little else to think about.

There are some aspects of my life that I would like social skills

training for, like coping in the workplace but not for making

friends with NT's because I personally do not trust most of them.

Kate2

In , " greebohere "

<julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

>

> The way I view a lot of social communication is that it involves

much

> pretending and ulterior motives. People smiling and being nice

whilst

> stabbing you in the back. If this is what normalization is - I

don't

> want it. If this is what being cured of autism is then I don't

want

> that either.

>

> Sorry bit of a rant there - of course I respect that there are

some

> who are socially adept without being nasty and all the other

negative

> traits.

>

[Guest guest]

I used to like to take the positive attitude that if people behaved

badly toward me, perhaps they were having a bad day.

Now I've come to the conclusion that certain people (whole groups of

them, in fact) cannot be trusted.

Tom

Administrator

There are some aspects of my life that I would like social skills

training for, like coping in the workplace but not for making

friends with NT's because I personally do not trust most of them.

Kate2

[Guest guest]

[Tom, on Autism Assembly]

> Why don't we make a functional alternative?

Yes, why not?

It is easy (and not very time-consuming) to create the initial link

web-page. Just proclaim it's function and views, and then add a

couple of sites. Then you announce the new link-list on various

forums and ask people to join the initiative. As new members are

added, new link lists must be distributed to old members so they can

update their lists. The only function needed after establishment is

somebody that approves new links and send out updates.

I think a more moderate site-list could potentially be successful.

It could attract people from both camps, and ultimately enjoy high

ratings.

However, for this to work, I think it is essential that new

applicants are *only* evaluated based on site content, and *not*

based on any affiliations with AFF, AP or any other organization.

The reason for this is first that in order to gain search engine

ranking it *should* share sites with AFF and AP. Secondly, if people

have to choose between AFF, AP and the new list, it is likely they

will not join because the new list will be less valuable to them.

I don't think I should host the primary page. There is a risk that

whoever hosts it will be in the middle of the war between AFF and

FAM. I don't want to be caught up in that war, but I will join a

less radical (moderate) initiative, provided it does not include

ideas to cure autism and does not support genocide on autistics.

Leif

[Guest guest]

environmental1st2003 wrote:

" I used to like to take the positive attitude that if people behaved

badly toward me, perhaps they were having a bad day. "

" Now I've come to the conclusion that certain people (whole groups of

them, in fact) cannot be trusted. "

Toni asked:

" What groups Tom? "

Let's just say that whenever I find myself in social situations,

where no one knows anyone closely, people first pair up with others

that look non-threatening and friendly to them, then these small

groups join up with the others and form the main group. But the main

group always leaves one or two people out of the loop, and no one in

the main group makes an effort to integrate the out of the loopers

into the main body.

The out of the loopers wind up being the ones who get ignored, or,

at worst, derided, scroned and picked on.

I am typically one of the out of the loopers.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Check my pics in the Photos section and tell me if I appear

threatening and non-friendly to you.

I'd like to know if that is how I appear to people.

Tom

Administrator

does that mean you look threatening and unfriendly?

[Guest guest]

" You don't frown at people do you? "

I have an Aspie face. How I look in that picture is what I look like

when I am happy. I never willingly frown for any reason, but when I am

deeply thinking about what someone is saying, I APPEAR to frown. In

reality I am giving the person I am talking to my full attention and

seriously considering what they have to say.

I ignore THEIR facial expressions because they can be misinterpreted

in so many different ways that it's pointless to pay attention to

them. I consider this very courteous on my part.

Additionally, more often than not, I have seen non-Aspies engaged in

conversation distract each other with facial and arm gestures while

telling lies to each other. I know these were lies being told because

I was told the truth before the conversation took place.

So non-Aspie facial gestures, posturing, stance, arm movements, and

voice intonation cannot be relied upon and ought to be ignored if

reliable open, honest, and straightforward communication is to take

place.

Ask the Aspies here and they will tell you they can tell when a person

is lying or not because they may SAY one thing even as their body says

another.

" Do you 'open' yourself up? "

I don't believe in opening myself up to people who won't remember or

care about anything I've said 5 minutes after I say it. For them to

treat me that way dishonors me. It's rude and disrespectful. It is a

waste of my time and only causes me to disrespect them. I also can't

think of them nicely when they value social niceties above true

intimacy between people. It's as if they are in it for something (what

they can get out of it most likely) but not trying to get to know the

true person.

" Are your arms crossed signaling people to back off? "

My arms would be crossed because that's what is most comfortable to

me. The signal that people interpret from my crossed arms is based on

their own social prejudices which they are too arrogant and/or

underconfident to get around or overcome. If they don't want to get to

know me because of the way I keep my arms while talking to them, then

these are shallow people not worth knowing.

" I notice when n gets out of school his head is down and his

arms are crossed and he walks quickly as if to tell people he is not

interested in interacting with them. "

He does this because he knows what I know: Most people are shallow and

not worth knowing. But those who are TRULY interested in knowing him

will approach him regardless of his posture or stance.

" Just an observation, not saying it's bad. If he doesn't want to

interact with some of the snobs that go to his school, I certainly

understand... "

He wants to interact with people. But he wants to interact on a deeper

level than most non-Aspies are capable of operating on. When I go to

parties with my non-Aspie relatives, I notice that the topic of

conversation between a group of five people shifts every 45 seconds or

so. Yet when I talk with Aspies, we can talk about things for 45

MINUTES without changing the subject, and we get annoyed if anyone

goes off on a tangent.

Possibly non-autistics are just incapable of having an attention span

that lasts more than 45 seconds, or maybe their neurological

difference is such that they cannot think abstractly enough to keep a

conversation going in any sort of depth for a long period of time. Or

maybe their social skills are such that they cannot keep a

conversation going for 45 minutes on just one toipic.

It's hard to say. But I know that while I CAN shift topics every 45

seconds and talk about nothing of substance at social gathering for

three hours straight, it is mind-numbingly boring, and a wasteful

expendature of mental energy.

Also, it insults my intelligence, therefore it is beneath me.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I shall add another aspect to this :-) Sometimes also someone will

break off the main group and appear to be befriending an outsider,

then with information gathered on outsider go back to main group

armed with information that then will be distorted and used agaisnt

one of the outsiders - this does happen.

I prefer to be an outsider and generally find other outsiders very

nice :-) certainly in comparisment to those in main group anyway -

who have to follow the popular consensus and are not allowed to think

for themselves - I think my position is better :-)

>

> " I used to like to take the positive attitude that if people behaved

> badly toward me, perhaps they were having a bad day. "

>

> " Now I've come to the conclusion that certain people (whole groups

of

> them, in fact) cannot be trusted. "

>

> Toni asked:

>

> " What groups Tom? "

>

> Let's just say that whenever I find myself in social situations,

> where no one knows anyone closely, people first pair up with others

> that look non-threatening and friendly to them, then these small

> groups join up with the others and form the main group. But the

main

> group always leaves one or two people out of the loop, and no one

in

> the main group makes an effort to integrate the out of the loopers

> into the main body.

>

> The out of the loopers wind up being the ones who get ignored, or,

> at worst, derided, scroned and picked on.

>

> I am typically one of the out of the loopers.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to say that it may seem I am not being very

compassionate with the response I gave below. I wanted to assure you

that nothing can be further from the truth.

I understand that non-autistics suffer a signifcant social

impairment, which is why I deign to give them my love, time and

attention so often.

If I ever win the lottery, my intention is to open a school for non-

autistics whereby they can learn proper social instruction.

I figure that if we Aspies can invent computer programs that

everyone can use without training or without an instruction manual

(Bit Torrent, WinZip, Windows, etc.) we can certainly invent a way

of teaching non-autistics to increase their memory skills, broaden

their vocabularies, and develop proper social skills, and without

them using lies and deception while they implement these

socialization methods.

Those non-autistics that do not respond to basic training and

instruction would be medicated, and those that failed to respond to

medication would be restrained, hit, and bludgeoned using methods

approved by the American Psychiatric Association, such as Applied

Behavior Analysis.

(Given that non-autistics have no moral quibbles about using such

methods on autistics, I'm sure they would thrive on methods of their

own invention such as ABA.)

I even have a vocational program conceptualized. Clearly with the

demonstrated intelligence and social skills that non-autistics

possess, they (with a little extra training) should have no problem

getting jobs in the janitorial, housekeeping, restauant server, or

trash collection industries.

Non-autistics demonstrating superior aptitude (the ability to use

turn signals while driving, the ability to stay focued on their work

for more than three minutes at a time without digressing into

childish social bantering, etc.,) could be given higher level jobs,

such as newspaper and mail delivery, mass-mailing envelop stuffing,

and basket weaving.

These non-autistics could even paritally pay for their training

through profits gained from these vocational endeavors.

I've got it all figured out.

Tom

Administrator

" You don't frown at people do you? "

I have an Aspie face. How I look in that picture is what I look like

when I am happy. I never willingly frown for any reason, but when I

am

deeply thinking about what someone is saying, I APPEAR to frown. In

reality I am giving the person I am talking to my full attention and

seriously considering what they have to say.

I ignore THEIR facial expressions because they can be misinterpreted

in so many different ways that it's pointless to pay attention to

them. I consider this very courteous on my part.

Additionally, more often than not, I have seen non-Aspies engaged in

conversation distract each other with facial and arm gestures while

telling lies to each other. I know these were lies being told because

I was told the truth before the conversation took place.

So non-Aspie facial gestures, posturing, stance, arm movements, and

voice intonation cannot be relied upon and ought to be ignored if

reliable open, honest, and straightforward communication is to take

place.

Ask the Aspies here and they will tell you they can tell when a

person

is lying or not because they may SAY one thing even as their body

says

another.

" Do you 'open' yourself up? "

I don't believe in opening myself up to people who won't remember or

care about anything I've said 5 minutes after I say it. For them to

treat me that way dishonors me. It's rude and disrespectful. It is a

waste of my time and only causes me to disrespect them. I also can't

think of them nicely when they value social niceties above true

intimacy between people. It's as if they are in it for something

(what

they can get out of it most likely) but not trying to get to know the

true person.

" Are your arms crossed signaling people to back off? "

My arms would be crossed because that's what is most comfortable to

me. The signal that people interpret from my crossed arms is based on

their own social prejudices which they are too arrogant and/or

underconfident to get around or overcome. If they don't want to get

to

know me because of the way I keep my arms while talking to them, then

these are shallow people not worth knowing.

" I notice when n gets out of school his head is down and his

arms are crossed and he walks quickly as if to tell people he is not

interested in interacting with them. "

He does this because he knows what I know: Most people are shallow

and

not worth knowing. But those who are TRULY interested in knowing him

will approach him regardless of his posture or stance.

" Just an observation, not saying it's bad. If he doesn't want to

interact with some of the snobs that go to his school, I certainly

understand... "

He wants to interact with people. But he wants to interact on a

deeper

level than most non-Aspies are capable of operating on. When I go to

parties with my non-Aspie relatives, I notice that the topic of

conversation between a group of five people shifts every 45 seconds

or

so. Yet when I talk with Aspies, we can talk about things for 45

MINUTES without changing the subject, and we get annoyed if anyone

goes off on a tangent.

Possibly non-autistics are just incapable of having an attention span

that lasts more than 45 seconds, or maybe their neurological

difference is such that they cannot think abstractly enough to keep a

conversation going in any sort of depth for a long period of time. Or

maybe their social skills are such that they cannot keep a

conversation going for 45 minutes on just one toipic.

It's hard to say. But I know that while I CAN shift topics every 45

seconds and talk about nothing of substance at social gathering for

three hours straight, it is mind-numbingly boring, and a wasteful

expendature of mental energy.

Also, it insults my intelligence, therefore it is beneath me.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Tom wrote:

I figure that if we Aspies can invent computer programs that

everyone can use without training or without an instruction manual

(Bit Torrent, WinZip, Windows, etc.) we can certainly invent a way

of teaching non-autistics to increase their memory skills, broaden

their vocabularies, and develop proper social skills, and without

them using lies and deception while they implement these

socialization methods.

Guess what? There already is a way to teach them a way to increase

their memory skills, broaden their vocabularies, and develop proper

social skills without them using lies and deception: MUSIC! ;-)

Jill

[Guest guest]

Forgive me ,

I was using irony and satire, much like the famed author Jonathon

Swift used in his essay " A Modest Proposal " where he advocated

eating babies to solve the problem of starvation among the populous

poor.

Irony and satire are actually something that autistics are thought

to be incapable of using and understanding according to most

psychiatrists (and this is only ONE reason I have a problem with

them). I have a diagnosis, yet I use irony and satire. Perhaps they

mis-diagnosed me and I am really not an Aspie.

Tom

Administrator

" Just wanted to say that it may seem I am not being very

compassionate with the response I gave below. I wanted to assure you

that nothing can be further from the truth. "

[Guest guest]

" Guess what? There already is a way to teach them a way

to increase their memory skills, broaden their vocabularies, and

develop proper social skills without them using lies and deception:

MUSIC! ;-) "

I beg to differ on this point, Jill. As a brilliant composer and a

phenomenal performer, I can attest to the fact that teaching NTs music

does not guarantee any of the things you have listed.

Even when dealing with NTs who have developed their musical talent, I

have found serious lapses in memory skills, vocabulary and social

skills ... sometimes on a very regular and ongoing basis. :-o

Raven

[Guest guest]

Yes, and I think I would catagorize people as 'not-to-be-trusted'

and 'trusted' rather than NTs and Aspies. There's some awesome NTs

out there. (Though it is a little scary finding out how many

people are not-too-nice under the veneer of superficial niceness.)

>

> There are some aspects of my life that I would like social skills

> training for, like coping in the workplace but not for making

> friends with NT's because I personally do not trust most of them.

>

> Kate2

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Check my pics in the Photos section and tell me if I appear

> threatening and non-friendly to you.

>

> I'd like to know if that is how I appear to people.

>

> Not at all, though I am Aspie. You appear mild and sensitive and a

little shy/aloof while at the same time appearing to want to be engaged

to a degree.

[Guest guest]

One thing I've noticed is that non-Aspies give off an " I'm here! "

kind of vibe. A strong kind of omni-presence and they also give off

an openness and a friendliness vibe, and sort of like they

have 'feelers' sent out to receive.

Whereas, Aspies don't give off strong vibes. They have a very mild

vibe that I either can pick up on right away and feel a connection

with or I have to kind of feel for it. And this besides the

introversion and straight-facedness that we usually have as well.

Another thing is that non-Aspies will often avoid people who they

feel don't want to be bothered. They should ask but they're making an

assumption based on their understanding.

I've also found myself thinking an Aspie was unfriendly (before I

knew I was Aspie) and cold, because I was making an assumption based

on what the majority (NT) standard is.

> >

> > does that mean you look threatening and unfriendly?

> >

>