Re: Prenups WAS: Thinking Deep Thoughts

[Guest guest]

Its ok, I gathered that there was some kind of misunderstanding

there, perhaps I didn't explain what I meant properly. What I meant

was that because it was apparent that I was, for reasons then

unknown to me, failing in the big wide world of work I needed some

kind of project to replace the gap that left in my life. I filled

it with my drive to move up in the world of property owning and was

fortunate enough to find a partner who wished to do the same.

And yes it has brought me great joy and the older I get the less I

think about the career I might have had were I not ASD as I have

more than enough to fill my days.

Kate2

In , " mikecarrie01 "

<mikecarrie01@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry. I'm an inappropriate laughter person. I mean for it to be

> joyful laughter but I often offend people with it (yet it always

> surprises me when they are offended--I need to get a clue). I knew

> you were being serious about it and was applauding your values

toward

> your home while liking your play on 'climbing the ladder' which is

> always applied toward the the outside job world. But I didn't know

> you meant 'house' literally.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > but I also was a home

> > > > lover/maker with great ambition to climb the housing

ladder.

> > >

> > > LOL!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So far I have never had to attend a funeral. If it was a member of

my own little family I think I would have to be sedated.

Kate2

In , environmental1st2003

<no_reply@...> wrote:

>

> Me too.

>

> Sometimes if I see people crying and sobbing melodramatically at

> funerals I can't help but laugh. I know it is unholy mirth on my

part,

> but sometimes I just cannot help it.

>

> And yes, I have cried at funerals, and yes, people have laughed at

me.

> And no, I did not resent them for it. I could see the humor in it

and

> so I think I laughed right with them even while I was sobbing if

that

> is possible.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

>

> " I'm an inappropriate laughter person. "

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 11:58:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, ravenmagic2003@... writes:

While I can respect your point of view, I would like to add something. Sometimes a prenup is one person's way of saying, with love, that nothing the other person owns will ever be as important as that other person is. I know that if I found myself in such a position where there were more assets on my intended's side than my own, I would have no difficulty whatsoever signing a prenup. And love would tell me that the prenup would never be needed ... even if a 'demand loan' clause existed in it ... because my partner -- like myself -- would be the sort of person you spoke of, ... a good person.Raven

It is also important is one person in the marriage has a lot to lose in a messy divorce. I've known of people taken to the cleaners by a spouse, such that they lost most of what they had built up or just entered the marriage with.

I also think that Westerners have too romantic a notion of marriage. I had some Jewish friends and they told me that traditionally, a Jewish marriage was seen as a contract in which each partner had certain obligations and responsibilities. Sure love was involved too, but it wasn't the end all and be all of the marriage. They simply acknowledged that there had to be more to it than just feelings.

I could respect that as it made a lot of sense to me. I'm not saying one should go to the extent some of the Hollyweird people have (some have gone so far as to specify how often to have sex, what foods can and can't be eaten and other things), but certainly how assets would be divided in the event of a divorce makes sense, perhaps with qualifiers for adultery.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 11:58:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, ravenmagic2003@... writes:

While I can respect your point of view, I would like to add something. Sometimes a prenup is one person's way of saying, with love, that nothing the other person owns will ever be as important as that other person is. I know that if I found myself in such a position where there were more assets on my intended's side than my own, I would have no difficulty whatsoever signing a prenup. And love would tell me that the prenup would never be needed ... even if a 'demand loan' clause existed in it ... because my partner -- like myself -- would be the sort of person you spoke of, ... a good person.Raven

It is also important is one person in the marriage has a lot to lose in a messy divorce. I've known of people taken to the cleaners by a spouse, such that they lost most of what they had built up or just entered the marriage with.

I also think that Westerners have too romantic a notion of marriage. I had some Jewish friends and they told me that traditionally, a Jewish marriage was seen as a contract in which each partner had certain obligations and responsibilities. Sure love was involved too, but it wasn't the end all and be all of the marriage. They simply acknowledged that there had to be more to it than just feelings.

I could respect that as it made a lot of sense to me. I'm not saying one should go to the extent some of the Hollyweird people have (some have gone so far as to specify how often to have sex, what foods can and can't be eaten and other things), but certainly how assets would be divided in the event of a divorce makes sense, perhaps with qualifiers for adultery.

[Guest guest]

>>

> And yes it has brought me great joy and the older I get the less I

> think about the career I might have had were I not ASD as I have

> more than enough to fill my days.

>

>That's good that you are able to do that. I definitely don't love my

career and would quickly trade it for something independent I could do

from home. Or if I had kids, to be a housewife. If I didn't have kids

(I don't) I would definitely feel the need to contribute, though,

especially when my husband is stressed out in his job. (He had to take

some time off--per his doctor's recommendation, poor thing.) It's

difficult no matter what situation you're in, I think. We try to live

simply to keep stress levels down and make life easier.

[Guest guest]

I have to stay away from funerals if I can, I can't handle them. I

pick up everyone's sadness and it's too much for me. At my nephew's

funeral, the sight of my 6-month old nephew's little casket was way

too much for me. Everyone else was not crying but just standing

there, except for about 3 people who were quietly crying--I couldn't

understand how, but I think I'm missing something that people employ

to keep themselves from giving way to emotions.

> >

> > " I'm an inappropriate laughter person. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Its so nice to hear someone say this, its certainly an undervalued

occupation. I think my ex learnt to appreciate what I did in the

home after we had lived apart for four years because during this

time he had to pay someone to do what I had done for 26 years free

of charge.

But then I learnt to appreciate the enrichment, stability and

security that he had blessed me with as well.

They say everything happens for a reason.

Kate2

In , " mikecarrie01 "

<mikecarrie01@...> wrote:

> >

> >That's good that you are able to do that. I definitely don't love

my

> career and would quickly trade it for something independent I

could do

> from home. Or if I had kids, to be a housewife.

[Guest guest]

I read something once that listed out each duty that a housewife does

and how much it would cost if someone was paid for each and it came

out to $100,000 or something like that. I am very fortunate in that

what I'm good at my husband isn't and what he's good at I'm not, so

it works out really well.

>

> > >

> > >That's good that you are able to do that. I definitely don't

love

> my

> > career and would quickly trade it for something independent I

> could do

> > from home. Or if I had kids, to be a housewife.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 4:06:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kate-Irvine@... writes:

So far I have never had to attend a funeral. If it was a member of my own little family I think I would have to be sedated.Kate2

I've had to attend a few. All of my grandparents are dead as is one uncle. I've been to most of those funerals, except my paternal grandmother and that was because my uncle made the arrangements too quickly for any of the far ranging member of the family to attend.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 4:06:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kate-Irvine@... writes:

So far I have never had to attend a funeral. If it was a member of my own little family I think I would have to be sedated.Kate2

I've had to attend a few. All of my grandparents are dead as is one uncle. I've been to most of those funerals, except my paternal grandmother and that was because my uncle made the arrangements too quickly for any of the far ranging member of the family to attend.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:44:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, ravenmagic2003@... writes:

wrote: " ... but certainly how assets would be divided in the event of a divorce makes sense, perhaps with qualifiers for adultery."I would think that letting the person with whom the cheating spouse was cheating keep the cheater would be punishment enough for both of them and very freeing for the spouse who was wronged. :-oRaven

That would be pretty much what I would say.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 8:44:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, ravenmagic2003@... writes:

wrote: " ... but certainly how assets would be divided in the event of a divorce makes sense, perhaps with qualifiers for adultery."I would think that letting the person with whom the cheating spouse was cheating keep the cheater would be punishment enough for both of them and very freeing for the spouse who was wronged. :-oRaven

That would be pretty much what I would say.

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... but certainly how assets would be divided in the

event of a divorce makes sense, perhaps with qualifiers for adultery. "

I would think that letting the person with whom the cheating spouse

was cheating keep the cheater would be punishment enough for both of

them and very freeing for the spouse who was wronged. :-o

Raven

[Guest guest]

I agree, it is every inch a business contract, hopefully with a dose

of respect and fondness thrown in. Its time that society shook off

those rose petals and faced reality. Perhaps then couples would not

become so disapointed when the 'in love' feeling wears off.

Did you know that 'being in love' is now seriously considered to be a

temporary form of insanity?

Kate2

In , VISIGOTH@... wrote:

>

> I also think that Westerners have too romantic a notion of marriage.

I had

> some Jewish friends and they told me that traditionally, a Jewish

marriage was

> seen as a contract in which each partner had certain obligations

and

> responsibilities. Sure love was involved too, but it wasn't the end

all and be all

> of the marriage. They simply acknowledged that there had to be more

to it than

> just feelings.

>

[Guest guest]

Okay - so maybe I am a bit idealistic here, but can love not last? I

am idealistic at heart and like to believe love can conquer all -

unfortunately life seems to get in the way and there are times when

one partner is willing to work at it and the other is not; but if

there is love then surely there is hope? and if relationships are

worked at they could survive?

>

> >

> > I also think that Westerners have too romantic a notion of

marriage.

> I had

> > some Jewish friends and they told me that traditionally, a Jewish

> marriage was

> > seen as a contract in which each partner had certain obligations

> and

> > responsibilities. Sure love was involved too, but it wasn't the

end

> all and be all

> > of the marriage. They simply acknowledged that there had to be

more

> to it than

> > just feelings.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Okay - so maybe I am a bit idealistic here, but can love not last? I

am idealistic at heart and like to believe love can conquer all -

unfortunately life seems to get in the way and there are times when

one partner is willing to work at it and the other is not; but if

there is love then surely there is hope? and if relationships are

worked at they could survive?

>

> >

> > I also think that Westerners have too romantic a notion of

marriage.

> I had

> > some Jewish friends and they told me that traditionally, a Jewish

> marriage was

> > seen as a contract in which each partner had certain obligations

> and

> > responsibilities. Sure love was involved too, but it wasn't the

end

> all and be all

> > of the marriage. They simply acknowledged that there had to be

more

> to it than

> > just feelings.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

--- mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote:

> I was married at 20 which was dumb, but I was on my

> own and couldn't

> take care of myself and so married the first person

> to come along,

> practically.

I got married at 19, and it was a dumb thing for me to

do also. I could take care of myself, but I thought it

would be cool to be married. I didn't think it through

enough. I don't regret it though, as I have my two

sons from it<---which I admit, is the main reason I

got married.

>Somehow I made it 8 years in that bad

> marriage <snip>

Mine only lasted about 5 or 6 years. Even though he

was a professing Christian, he was not a good husband.

He is now on marriage number 6.

>Then I was single from

> 28 to 37--got

> married at 37, and now I'm 42.

I was single from my mid 20's to my mid 30's and then

got married again. I am now 49 and this marriage is as

different from my first as light is from day.

Take care,

Gail :-)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote:

> I was married at 20 which was dumb, but I was on my

> own and couldn't

> take care of myself and so married the first person

> to come along,

> practically.

I got married at 19, and it was a dumb thing for me to

do also. I could take care of myself, but I thought it

would be cool to be married. I didn't think it through

enough. I don't regret it though, as I have my two

sons from it<---which I admit, is the main reason I

got married.

>Somehow I made it 8 years in that bad

> marriage <snip>

Mine only lasted about 5 or 6 years. Even though he

was a professing Christian, he was not a good husband.

He is now on marriage number 6.

>Then I was single from

> 28 to 37--got

> married at 37, and now I'm 42.

I was single from my mid 20's to my mid 30's and then

got married again. I am now 49 and this marriage is as

different from my first as light is from day.

Take care,

Gail :-)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That first gushy rush sends some people nuts though, (me) and if

decisions are made during that time they might not be sensible ones.

Yes it is good to work at relationships if it is in the best

interests of all concerned. This is pretty much the situation I am

in right now. I know where I am now is the best place for me and is

best for my loved ones. (including the cats):-)

Kate2

In , " greebohere "

<julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

>

> Okay - so maybe I am a bit idealistic here, but can love not last?

I

> am idealistic at heart and like to believe love can conquer all -

> unfortunately life seems to get in the way and there are times

when

> one partner is willing to work at it and the other is not; but if

> there is love then surely there is hope? and if relationships are

> worked at they could survive?

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > > I also think that Westerners have too romantic a notion of

> marriage.

> > I had

> > > some Jewish friends and they told me that traditionally, a

Jewish

> > marriage was

> > > seen as a contract in which each partner had certain

obligations

> > and

> > > responsibilities. Sure love was involved too, but it wasn't

the

> end

> > all and be all

> > > of the marriage. They simply acknowledged that there had to be

> more

> > to it than

> > > just feelings.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 9:29:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, nancygailus@... writes:

Did he mean to?

I don't think so. That uncle was probably AS and he just did what the funeral directors suggested. The tradition in that part of Alabama is also to have the funeral 3 days after the person dies, which is what he did. However, that was not enough time for those of us living several hundred miles away to to make the arrangements we needed to.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/21/2006 9:29:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, nancygailus@... writes:

Did he mean to?

I don't think so. That uncle was probably AS and he just did what the funeral directors suggested. The tradition in that part of Alabama is also to have the funeral 3 days after the person dies, which is what he did. However, that was not enough time for those of us living several hundred miles away to to make the arrangements we needed to.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/22/2006 8:00:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

Okay - so maybe I am a bit idealistic here, but can love not last? I am idealistic at heart and like to believe love can conquer all - unfortunately life seems to get in the way and there are times when one partner is willing to work at it and the other is not; but if there is love then surely there is hope? and if relationships are worked at they could survive?

It can, but not in the original heady, romantic form. In time, if it is nutured, it becomes something more mature, something more like companionship. I know people this has worked for and some that it hasn't.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/22/2006 9:05:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kate-Irvine@... writes:

That first gushy rush sends some people nuts though, (me) and if decisions are made during that time they might not be sensible ones.Yes it is good to work at relationships if it is in the best interests of all concerned. This is pretty much the situation I am in right now. I know where I am now is the best place for me and is best for my loved ones. (including the cats):-)Kate2

The other problem is that a lot of people can't distinguish between "Love" feelings and "Rutting" feelings. Most people, especially younger people, are full of the rutting hormones that are trying to make them reproduce like wild monkeys. They aren't mature enough to understand that that powerful attraction isn't love, but lust.

[Guest guest]

Kate2 wrote: " Did you know that 'being in love' is now seriously

considered to be a temporary form of insanity? "

Only for those who are crazy enough to just fall into it.

Raven

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/23/2006 10:45:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, acsnag@... writes:

Rutting????????????? I don't think you understand the term. There are no feelings involved in rut. It is a biological act in the animal, not human kingdom.Ace

I know. It is meant as a disparagement of the way many people act. Ever seen a wild, drunken college party? No feelings, or I would say thinking, there other than hormones, thus rutting. Lots of people also let the reproductive urges run their lives, which is more animal than human.