Re: OK i am confused (WARNING - some sexual stuff)

[Guest guest]

Mmmmmmmm so now I am confused - having kinky tendencies is wrong?

Not sure how far I want to discuss this, but say in a loving

relationship the guy wanted to be spanked a bit - not real hard just a

bit of fooling around - would that be deemed bad/wrong. I could think

of other examples.

I suppose the point I am making is within a loving relationship if it

is not causing harm and the people actually enjoy it - then where is if

any harm?

Just trying to seek clarification here.

>

> The problem is Biblical. The Bible tells Christians to treat our

> bodies as we would treat the Holy Spirit. If we abuse our bodies, and

> if the Holy Spirit dwells within us, then when we abuse our bodies,

> we abuse the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of God, and therefore God.

>

> If our lover who is abusing us does this out of love, it creates an

> even bigger conflict. How can you abuse God out of love?

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

" Yep, I think that is the consensus here. Tom,

and Raven cannot stand kinky tendencies. "

I cannot speak for Tom or for . I can only speak for myself.

I can tell you that it is violence and debasement and humiliation and

degradation that I cannot stand. That is not the same thing as kinky

tendencies.

Raven

[Guest guest]

I understand completely what you are saying, Leif. What you do not

understand is that violence cannot be justified and excused with a

claim that those involved are 'willing' participants to this

debauchery.

Raven

" You still don't understand. "

[Guest guest]

All I know is what I've read:

18 Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the

body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your

own body. 19 Or don't you know that your body is the temple of the

Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do

not belong to yourself, 20 for God bought you with a high price. So

you must honor God with your body.

>

The problem is Biblical. The Bible tells Christians to treat our

bodies as we would treat the Holy Spirit. If we abuse our bodies, and

if the Holy Spirit dwells within us, then when we abuse our bodies,

we abuse the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of God, and therefore God.

If our lover who is abusing us does this out of love, it creates an

even bigger conflict. How can you abuse God out of love?

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

1Cr 7:3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her,

and likewise also the wife to her husband.

1Cr 7:4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but

the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority

over his own body, but the wife does.

Yes, I'd be interested in what the people condeming BDSM

have to say about men that abuse their partners? This is

not consensual either, but most governments don't

seem to put down very much energy to punish those

men. In some countries a man is even assumed to

beat up his wife. I suppose that is all right, because

it isn't kinky and it is in the best interest of male

genes.

Leif

[Guest guest]

" You put 'willing' in quotes, indicating that you

probably do not believe that anybody could willingly engage in such

things ... <snip> ... "

I believe that those who participate in BDSM have convinced themselves

that they are willing partners.

I also know that when Patty Randolph Hearst was kidnapped, she was

eventually convinced that her name was and that she was fighting

a noble cause for the SLA until she was released from the parameters

of that sort of warped thinking.

Raven

[Guest guest]

" You put 'willing' in quotes, indicating that you

probably do not believe that anybody could willingly engage in such

things ... <snip> ... "

I believe that those who participate in BDSM have convinced themselves

that they are willing partners.

I also know that when Patty Randolph Hearst was kidnapped, she was

eventually convinced that her name was and that she was fighting

a noble cause for the SLA until she was released from the parameters

of that sort of warped thinking.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Oh yeah! The original topic!

Anyone want to join an autism coalition?

Count me in!

(Unless AFF or AP are in it.)

Tom

Administrator

I fail to see the relevency, some people have class the others have

a different kind of class. Though the story I read was just

disgusting..

Whats this about wife beating, some males are psychopathic abusers,

some women do the same to guys and let's perhaps mention the abuse

of those who are disabled for even less relevecy to divert the topic

further.

[Guest guest]

:> Kinky might be alright, but does have limits. Torturing someone like in those stories, no, that's just horrid. Yes it is, if they are not consenting partners. That's why the story posted is not real BDSM. > Spanking, while its not something I would do, isn't so bad. But whipping someone, beating them, cutting them, suffocating them, strangling them? That just has no redeeming value at all. ...unless someone actually ENJOYS having that done to them. When I was younger, I used very much enjoy being the recipient of such treatment, probably because of my Aspie non-sensitivity to pain, in combination with genetic factors. Had a rather hard time finding someone in Sweden who would be willing to administer such treatment, though (most guys are so nice over here). The few times I was lucky enough to find a BF into such things, I was in bliss. Raven:> I believe that those who participate in BDSM have convinced themselves that they are willing partners. I didn't have to convince myself of anything at all. I was born with a certain propensity for enjoying pain and dominance, just as if I had been born gay. :> I think the "willing" suffer from self-esteem and personality issues. Not in my case. I hardly know anyone who has a better self-confidence than I have, and my class-mates even remarked upon it in school when they found that I was impossible to intimidate, no matter how much I was bullied.> Those who do the inflicting have sadistic tendencies and enjoy seeing the pain and humiliation they inflict on others. No, they enjoy the PLEASURE they are able to inflict on their partners. You don't seem to understand that. > We put a person in jail for treating a dog like these people treat each other, even if the dog sat still for it and seemed to enjoy the "attention". And so anyone should be put in jail if they mistreated a partner who did not enter into the game by free will and mutual agreement. You are clearly mistaking sadistic control-freaks with people who are just into sexual role-playing. Unlike what you may think, submissives are usually VERY strong-minded people who enjoy finding someone even stronger to put them in their place for a change. That's what makes it interesting. Inger

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/21/2006 10:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, vze2txm3@... writes:

If a dog could cognatively explain that he enjoyed some of that treatment, then it would be a different story.

Well, by that logic you could do these things to a mute or someone like Hellen Keller. Because they can't say whether they like it or not, who's to say they don't, so why not do bad things to them? Same goes for the severely mentally damaged who can't express themselves.

[Guest guest]

" You are clearly mistaking sadistic control-freaks with people who

are just into sexual role-playing. Unlike what you may think,

submissives are usually VERY strong-minded people who enjoy finding

someone even stronger to put them in their place for a change. That's

what makes it interesting. "

That certainly seems to be born out when you get people in great

positions of power enjoying being dominated over in their sexual life.

>

> :

> > Kinky might be alright, but does have limits. Torturing someone

like in those stories, no, that's just horrid.

>

> Yes it is, if they are not consenting partners. That's why the

story posted is not real BDSM.

>

> > Spanking, while its not something I would do, isn't so bad. But

whipping someone, beating them, cutting them, suffocating them,

strangling them? That just has no redeeming value at all.

>

> ...unless someone actually ENJOYS having that done to them.

>

> When I was younger, I used very much enjoy being the recipient of

such treatment, probably because of my Aspie non-sensitivity to pain,

in combination with genetic factors. Had a rather hard time finding

someone in Sweden who would be willing to administer such treatment,

though (most guys are so nice over here). The few times I was lucky

enough to find a BF into such things, I was in bliss.

>

> Raven:

> > I believe that those who participate in BDSM have convinced

themselves that they are willing partners.

>

> I didn't have to convince myself of anything at all. I was born

with a certain propensity for enjoying pain and dominance, just as if

I had been born gay.

>

> :

> > I think the " willing " suffer from self-esteem and personality

issues.

>

> Not in my case. I hardly know anyone who has a better self-

confidence than I have, and my class-mates even remarked upon it in

school when they found that I was impossible to intimidate, no matter

how much I was bullied.

>

> > Those who do the inflicting have sadistic tendencies and enjoy

seeing the pain and humiliation they inflict on others.

>

> No, they enjoy the PLEASURE they are able to inflict on their

partners. You don't seem to understand that.

>

> > We put a person in jail for treating a dog like these people

treat each other, even if the dog sat still for it and seemed to

enjoy the " attention " .

>

> And so anyone should be put in jail if they mistreated a partner

who did not enter into the game by free will and mutual agreement.

>

> You are clearly mistaking sadistic control-freaks with people who

are just into sexual role-playing. Unlike what you may think,

submissives are usually VERY strong-minded people who enjoy finding

someone even stronger to put them in their place for a change. That's

what makes it interesting.

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry to keep butting into this debate that you seem to be having with someone else here, but I repeat:

Violence against another being is ONLY EVER acceptable if is a non-mentally disabled adult, who has clearly given his/her consent.

I hope that clears it up once and for all.

Inger

Re: OK i am confused (WARNING - some sexual stuff)

In a message dated 3/21/2006 10:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, vze2txm3@... writes:

If a dog could cognatively explain that he enjoyed some of that treatment, then it would be a different story.

Well, by that logic you could do these things to a mute or someone like Hellen Keller. Because they can't say whether they like it or not, who's to say they don't, so why not do bad things to them? Same goes for the severely mentally damaged who can't express themselves.

[Guest guest]

--That's right,Inger! But as Camille Paglia has pointed out in many

of her books and essays,and said in " Dark Eros " (which is

a study of DeSade),stories,dreams and fantasies are NOT real

life.Most people at least have nasty dreams,even though not everyone

remembers their dreams. thinks that the fact people do have

these nasty thoughts about non-consensual sex and violence is

important for various reasons.It's complicated.He is a Jungian.i

suggest folks read his book,it is good.Personally i do not enjoy non-

consensual stories,if the " victim " is too young,impaired,or an

animal.This creeps me out.But i don't believe in censorship of

stories or other fictions. Kajira

- In , " Inger Lorelei " <inglori@...>

wrote:

>

> I'm sorry to keep butting into this debate that you seem to be

having with someone else here, but I repeat:

>

> Violence against another being is ONLY EVER acceptable if is a non-

mentally disabled adult, who has clearly given his/her consent.

>

> I hope that clears it up once and for all.

>

> Inger

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: OK i am confused (WARNING - some

sexual stuff)

>

>

> In a message dated 3/21/2006 10:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

vze2txm3@... writes:

>

> If a dog could cognatively explain that he enjoyed some of that

> treatment, then it would be a different story.

>

> Well, by that logic you could do these things to a mute or someone

like Hellen Keller. Because they can't say whether they like it or

not, who's to say they don't, so why not do bad things to them? Same

goes for the severely mentally damaged who can't express themselves.

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, numerous interview-studies have shown that it is more common than not

to have highly deviant sexual fantasies of things that most people would NOT

wish to do IRL. I think such dirty fantasies can be a healthy outlet for all

sorts of stress etc.

As for literature, I'm torn. I REALLY dislike gross violence, but then on

the other hand, until I became more boring lately, I might (on rare

occasions) enjoy reading about other types of things that others might find

highly objectionable. Being able to read about these things (or view them on

video) made me get over them and move on.

Yet, there must be SOME limit I think, like there is a prohibition against

things with minors in them. I think that is good, even if it is just

fiction, since fantasies available not only satisfy desire, but also often

feed it.

I am probably rather unusual in that once I have experienced something

fully - either IRL or online with a BF or via a good enough fantasy, book or

film - I'm usually satisfied forever after, or at least for a very long

time. For others it seems to work the other way around; that they more they

get, the more they want more?

Inger

Re: OK i am confused (WARNING - some

sexual stuff)

>

>

> In a message dated 3/21/2006 10:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

vze2txm3@... writes:

>

> If a dog could cognatively explain that he enjoyed some of that

> treatment, then it would be a different story.

>

> Well, by that logic you could do these things to a mute or someone

like Hellen Keller. Because they can't say whether they like it or

not, who's to say they don't, so why not do bad things to them? Same

goes for the severely mentally damaged who can't express themselves.

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

>

>

>

>