Re: To stay or not to stay?

March 27, 2006

Hi Inger, I WANT YOU TO STAY!!!!!!!!!, Yes I mean to yell at you. You are the first person I met, that was the same as me, and the only woman for a while. We have so much in common, despite our differences, that I would really miss you. Im sure you and Tom can work out your differences in public. My posts for peace were not only directed at you they were directed at the enitre group. I my self am liberal on some of the sensitive issues, this particular one just got a little to graphic, thats all. We all have our interests that we go off on. I could do a 20 page post on pokemon, although the only people interested would be the kids in the forum and Raven. There are cultural and all kinds of other differences, but that is what makes the world go around. I know you are a vital part of making this group run the way it does, we need liberal,

conservative, alternative views. We need to see that other people think differently even though we all have our aspie ness in common. We need to understand others view points, without sniping and backstabbing. Normally your very very good at this, but do to the personal problems lately, you fell of track. There is nothing saying you can't get back on track and continue to contribute the weath of information you have. Your website, I give to everyone that has aspergers or an aspie child, it is the most cohesive complete comprehensive, wonderful site I have ever seen. I could go on for hours with reasons you shouldn't leave, but my dinner will burn and my family will be really upset with me. Please reconsider. BethInger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: As promised, I did sleep on it but still can't really decide whether to stay or not.I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss me too, but I've also been informed that some find me way too liberal and outspoken on sensitive subjects and I truly don't want to cause any discomfort or unecessary contention. Just wish I had been informed sooner, as I would have moderated my posts accordingly - I hope! (Like many Aspies, I too have a rebellious streak and sometimes tend to push limits if I find them too restrictive.)There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and dismayed by anything violent and prejudicial and things like torturous animal testing & raising farm animals in concentration camps, but rarely by what I consider different ways of making love, whereas on the other side of the Atlantic the opposite seems to be true.Plus the personal issues between me and Tom

lately, for which I'm sure we are both equally sorry to have let spill over into discussions here. I realize I have put Tom in difficult/uncomfortable situations many times and I don't wish to do that anymore. I HAVE been rather provokative and rude of late, plus decidedly disrespectful towards his religious endeavours. After a chat last night that cleared up something I didn't know, I realize that he really IS very earnest on that path and I wish him all the best on it.I too am trying to live a more spiritual life according to MY beliefs - which some may find contradictory to my relative acceptance of all sorts of deviance. But I don't confuse action with person. I may or may not dislike this or that action (of mine, or of another) but what I think is rather irrelevant as I don't consider myself in a position to judge anyone (which, admittedly, still doesn't stop me from having OPINIONS). :-)I just don't see how it is

helpful to attack the person and making them feel bad about it - especially since I also think we tend to get most annoyed at the traits in others that we have in ourselves (seeing it in someone else magnifies it for us so we know what we need to work on). I therefore think that if one truly wants to improve the world, there is nothing more effective than to start with oneself.I also believe that we are all headed for the same destination but on different paths, some of which may make the journey longer than others, but still getting there sooner or later, I'm sure. I therefore don't see that I have the right to judge wich path anyone else takes. I can have personal likes and dislikes, and choose whom I wish to associate and cooperate with, but I still feel a fundamental, pervasive RESPECT for whichever path anyone else chooses to take.Even more so after I just read something by Don Beck before I went to bed. http://www.onehumanity.org/spiral_dynamics.htm It gave me a better understanding for Conservative views and made me also see a few points in the constructive criticism against some of mine. It MAY cause me to adopt another attitude altogether that I hope can encompass and/or transcend both.IngerP.S. Sorry if this came off as a bit of a sermon *suddenly remembering I just accused someone else of doing the same the other day* :-) Just wanted to clarify my standpoint, plus vent some general ponderings.And I still don't know if I should stay or go. I'll give it another day to think about it, if that's OK. If anyone feels my presence is destabilizing this list, PLEASE let me know.

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March 27, 2006

Inger (the name) is a famulirized attribute to this list, so by

leaving it would be different.

Persons might feel discomforted with what was said, emotions and what

not. This is why feelings becuase of the occurences and desiring to

leave due to circumstances is emotionaly appeazing becuase of the

social rift.

like:

feeling opposed

disliked due to words spoken.

or not approved of by a differing philosophical idealogy.

A change happened within the group

More then likely due to the de-famulirization from your leaving will

effect you adversly socially, as well as others, obviously. You might

feel as if you did'nt leave, and also that persons do not dislike you

as you may feel as if they do.

I think it is an escape, as to avoid those who said certain words and

those who agreed, you might feel as if leaving might be the best choice.

Your writting this is as if taking a poll to see if you are liked

enough to be psychologically accepted within the group, accepted

dispite disagreements which were hightened adversly for a time.

It is my understanding that in some ways, now that it has past, future

related occurences might be devoided of such candid ways of

extravating a disliked post or subject material.

Overreactions happened, then as a common human trait occurs of

stuburnness not re-evaluated for perhaps a better way of resolving the

past situation, even just after it had happened and the measure of

time in which it did. Likely in the future situations such as this

will not incure such reactive measures, rather more politly,

respectfully and in the understanding of that the emotions relating to

being disaproved of in subject materials are non-intentional.

A triggering event happened, emotional exchanges occured socially and

it is complex, yet it is over and no one really hates anyone I do not

believe.

March 27, 2006

On 27 Mar 2006 Inger Lorelei wrote:

> As promised, I did sleep on it but still can't really decide

> whether to stay or not.

I hope you do stay, but I also hope you get some sleep (:

> I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss

> me too, but I've also been informed that some find me way too

> liberal and outspoken on sensitive subjects

I hadn't seen that. There were a couple of " hot button " topics,

but I've seen much worse elsewhere.

> (Like many Aspies, I too have a rebellious

> streak and sometimes tend to push limits if I find them too

> restrictive.)

Sometimes called " lively discussion " .

> There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and

> dismayed by anything violent and prejudicial and things like

> torturous animal testing & raising farm animals in concentration

> camps, but rarely by what I consider different ways of making

> love, whereas on the other side of the Atlantic the opposite

> seems to be true.

That's one of the peculiar things about America. As I'm

mentioning in one of my webpages, there are some places in the

US where anything nonconventional in personal lives is viewed

with objection, whereas in other places such nonconventionality

is almost socially mandatory.

> Plus the personal issues between me and Tom lately, for which I'm

> sure we are both equally sorry to have let spill over into

> discussions here.

.... and which I'm sure most people can accept.

> I too am trying to live a more spiritual life according to MY

> beliefs - which some may find contradictory to my relative

> acceptance of all sorts of deviance.

but acceptance seems to be fairly common among spiritual people.

- s

March 27, 2006

I hope you stay.

-sara

March 27, 2006

Aren't our special interests the whole basis of this forum? I can't see why fellow Aspies couldn't express those aspirations or ideologies. My stomach hurts but, it's not because of a "spiritual battle". It's because of what I ate. I have my own personal beliefs as well. What makes us all united is the fact that we all eat, poop, sleep, and breathe. Everything else is speculation.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: As promised, I did sleep on it but still can't really decide whether to stay or not.I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss me too, but I've also been informed that some find me way too liberal and outspoken on sensitive subjects and I truly don't want to cause any discomfort or unecessary contention. Just wish I had been informed sooner, as I would have moderated my posts accordingly

- I hope! (Like many Aspies, I too have a rebellious streak and sometimes tend to push limits if I find them too restrictive.)There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and dismayed by anything violent and prejudicial and things like torturous animal testing & raising farm animals in concentration camps, but rarely by what I consider different ways of making love, whereas on the other side of the Atlantic the opposite seems to be true.Plus the personal issues between me and Tom lately, for which I'm sure we are both equally sorry to have let spill over into discussions here. I realize I have put Tom in difficult/uncomfortable situations many times and I don't wish to do that anymore. I HAVE been rather provokative and rude of late, plus decidedly disrespectful towards his religious endeavours. After a chat last night that cleared up something I didn't know, I realize that he really IS very earnest on

that path and I wish him all the best on it.I too am trying to live a more spiritual life according to MY beliefs - which some may find contradictory to my relative acceptance of all sorts of deviance. But I don't confuse action with person. I may or may not dislike this or that action (of mine, or of another) but what I think is rather irrelevant as I don't consider myself in a position to judge anyone (which, admittedly, still doesn't stop me from having OPINIONS). :-)I just don't see how it is helpful to attack the person and making them feel bad about it - especially since I also think we tend to get most annoyed at the traits in others that we have in ourselves (seeing it in someone else magnifies it for us so we know what we need to work on). I therefore think that if one truly wants to improve the world, there is nothing more effective than to start with oneself.I also believe that we are all headed for the same

destination but on different paths, some of which may make the journey longer than others, but still getting there sooner or later, I'm sure. I therefore don't see that I have the right to judge wich path anyone else takes. I can have personal likes and dislikes, and choose whom I wish to associate and cooperate with, but I still feel a fundamental, pervasive RESPECT for whichever path anyone else chooses to take.Even more so after I just read something by Don Beck before I went to bed. http://www.onehumanity.org/spiral_dynamics.htm It gave me a better understanding for Conservative views and made me also see a few points in the constructive criticism against some of mine. It MAY cause me to adopt another attitude altogether that I hope can encompass and/or transcend both.IngerP.S. Sorry if this came off as a bit of a sermon *suddenly remembering I just

accused someone else of doing the same the other day* :-) Just wanted to clarify my standpoint, plus vent some general ponderings.And I still don't know if I should stay or go. I'll give it another day to think about it, if that's OK. If anyone feels my presence is destabilizing this list, PLEASE let me know.

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

March 27, 2006

> Inger Lorelei

<inglori@...> wrote: As promised, I did sleep on it but

still can't really decide whether to stay

> or not.

>

> I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss me too,

> but I've also been informed that some find me way too liberal and outspoken

> on sensitive subjects

It's supposed to be possible to flag up sensitive subjects. Also, no

subject that involves no personal attack should be sensitive. I usually

find way too conservative, but enthusiastically backed his

claim that his views must be heard and not to have social control by

left wing rules of correctness.

>

> There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and dismayed by

> anything violent and prejudicial and things like torturous animal testing &

> raising farm animals in concentration camps, but rarely by what I consider

> different ways of making love, whereas on the other side of the Atlantic the

> opposite seems to be true.

But there are several Europeans here. Hi.

We are all in this to show we can get on globally without things like

that getting in thew way, concerning which as aspies we can think

independently of our cultures and fairly intellectually challenged by

each other.

>

> Plus the personal issues between me and Tom lately, for which I'm sure we

> are both

equally sorry to have let spill over into discussions here. ...plus

decidedly disrespectful towards his religious endeavours. After a

> chat last night that cleared up something I didn't know, I realize that he

> really IS very earnest on that path and I wish him all the best on it.

>

Maybe he is, but he's got Christian Aspie for that.

This society is supposed to be independent of that, and your sharing of

moderation with him was to create a balance, in gender and from there

being 2 of you, so that every part of FAM was covered and the main

parts not in 1 person's hands. FAM is in principle about not having to

leave because of opinion differences. It has made this into a mission

of being more of a place of peace than other sites have been. This

vitally has to be seen to work between its 2 creators. You don't owe to

Tom to suppress your views, from others who want to hear them - and

hear his too.

March 27, 2006

Again Maurice... I like how you explained this and agree with it.

Lida

> Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: As promised, I did sleep on it but still can't really decide whether to stay > or not.> > I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss me too, > but I've also been informed that some find me way too liberal and outspoken > on sensitive subjectsIt's supposed to be possible to flag up sensitive subjects. Also, no subject that involves no personal attack should be sensitive. I usually find way too conservative, but enthusiastically backed his claim that his views must be heard and not to have social control by left wing rules of correctness.> > There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and dismayed by > anything violent and prejudicial and things like torturous animal testing & > raising farm animals in concentration camps, but rarely by what I consider > different ways of making love, whereas on the other side of the Atlantic the > opposite seems to be true.But there are several Europeans here. Hi. We are all in this to show we can get on globally without things like that getting in thew way, concerning which as aspies we can think independently of our cultures and fairly intellectually challenged by each other.> > Plus the personal issues between me and Tom lately, for which I'm sure we > are both equally sorry to have let spill over into discussions here. ...plus decidedly disrespectful towards his religious endeavours. After a > chat last night that cleared up something I didn't know, I realize that he > really IS very earnest on that path and I wish him all the best on it.> Maybe he is, but he's got Christian Aspie for that. This society is supposed to be independent of that, and your sharing of moderation with him was to create a balance, in gender and from there being 2 of you, so that every part of FAM was covered and the main parts not in 1 person's hands. FAM is in principle about not having to leave because of opinion differences. It has made this into a mission of being more of a place of peace than other sites have been. This vitally has to be seen to work between its 2 creators. You don't owe to Tom to suppress your views, from others who want to hear them - and hear his too.

March 27, 2006

You have put this very well Maurice and I agree :-)

As promised, I did sleep on it

but

> still can't really decide whether to stay

> > or not.

> >

> > I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss

me

> too,

> > but I've also been informed that some find me way too liberal and

> outspoken

> > on sensitive subjects

> It's supposed to be possible to flag up sensitive subjects. Also, no

> subject that involves no personal attack should be sensitive. I

usually

> find way too conservative, but enthusiastically backed his

claim

> that his views must be heard and not to have social control by left

wing

> rules of correctness.

>

> >

> > There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and

dismayed

> by

> > anything violent and prejudicial and things like torturous animal

> testing &

> > raising farm animals in concentration camps, but rarely by what I

> consider

> > different ways of making love, whereas on the other side of the

> Atlantic the

> > opposite seems to be true.

> But there are several Europeans here. Hi. [=;]

> We are all in this to show we can get on globally without things

like

> that getting in thew way, concerning which as aspies we can think

> independently of our cultures and fairly intellectually challenged

by

> each other.

>

> >

> > Plus the personal issues between me and Tom lately, for which I'm

sure

> we

> > are both equally sorry to have let spill over into discussions

here.

> ...plus decidedly disrespectful towards his religious endeavours.

After

> a

> > chat last night that cleared up something I didn't know, I realize

> that he

> > really IS very earnest on that path and I wish him all the best

on it.

> >

>

> Maybe he is, but he's got Christian Aspie for that. [O:)]

>

> This society is supposed to be independent of that, and your

sharing of

> moderation with him was to create a balance, in gender and from

there

> being 2 of you, so that every part of FAM was covered and the main

parts

> not in 1 person's hands. FAM is in principle about not having to

leave

> because of opinion differences. It has made this into a mission of

being

> more of a place of peace than other sites have been. This vitally

has to

> be seen to work between its 2 creators. You don't owe to Tom to

suppress

> your views, from others who want to hear them - and hear his too.

>

March 27, 2006

Re:

> some places in the

> US where anything nonconventional in personal lives is viewed

> with objection, whereas in other places such nonconventionality

> is almost socially mandatory.

When/where something becomes " almost socially mandatory, " what lets it

still deserve the name " nonconventionality " in that time and place?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

March 27, 2006

I won't tell Inger whether to go or to say. But if she leaves this

listserv, I may well leave it too.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

March 27, 2006

I would REALLY miss you if you left, Inger!! Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: As promised, I did sleep on it but still can't really decide whether to stay or not.I would miss this group if I didn't and know that some would miss me too, but I've also been informed that some find me way too liberal and outspoken on sensitive subjects and I truly don't want to cause any discomfort or unecessary contention. Just wish I had been informed sooner, as I would have moderated my posts accordingly - I hope! (Like many Aspies, I too have a rebellious streak and sometimes tend to push limits if I find them too restrictive.)There is also the cultural difference, where I am shocked and dismayed by anything violent and prejudicial and things like torturous animal

testing & raising farm animals in concentration camps, but rarely by what I consider different ways of making love, whereas on the other side of the Atlantic the opposite seems to be true.Plus the personal issues between me and Tom lately, for which I'm sure we are both equally sorry to have let spill over into discussions here. I realize I have put Tom in difficult/uncomfortable situations many times and I don't wish to do that anymore. I HAVE been rather provokative and rude of late, plus decidedly disrespectful towards his religious endeavours. After a chat last night that cleared up something I didn't know, I realize that he really IS very earnest on that path and I wish him all the best on it.I too am trying to live a more spiritual life according to MY beliefs - which some may find contradictory to my relative acceptance of all sorts of deviance. But I don't confuse action with person. I may or may not dislike

this or that action (of mine, or of another) but what I think is rather irrelevant as I don't consider myself in a position to judge anyone (which, admittedly, still doesn't stop me from having OPINIONS). :-)I just don't see how it is helpful to attack the person and making them feel bad about it - especially since I also think we tend to get most annoyed at the traits in others that we have in ourselves (seeing it in someone else magnifies it for us so we know what we need to work on). I therefore think that if one truly wants to improve the world, there is nothing more effective than to start with oneself.I also believe that we are all headed for the same destination but on different paths, some of which may make the journey longer than others, but still getting there sooner or later, I'm sure. I therefore don't see that I have the right to judge wich path anyone else takes. I can have personal likes and dislikes, and

choose whom I wish to associate and cooperate with, but I still feel a fundamental, pervasive RESPECT for whichever path anyone else chooses to take.Even more so after I just read something by Don Beck before I went to bed. http://www.onehumanity.org/spiral_dynamics.htm It gave me a better understanding for Conservative views and made me also see a few points in the constructive criticism against some of mine. It MAY cause me to adopt another attitude altogether that I hope can encompass and/or transcend both.IngerP.S. Sorry if this came off as a bit of a sermon *suddenly remembering I just accused someone else of doing the same the other day* :-) Just wanted to clarify my standpoint, plus vent some general ponderings.And I still don't know if I should stay or go. I'll give it another day to think about it, if that's OK. If anyone feels my presence is

destabilizing this list, PLEASE let me know.

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

March 27, 2006

Thanks, , but I have said now that I WILL stay, so can everyone please quit posting on this thread? (This is getting embarrassing now.)

I probably won't be participating much for the next few days, though. My sister is coming to visit me again and another family thing scheduled on Friday, so I expect to be very busy from Wednesday.