Re: A.F.F rules Wikipedia and so on

[Guest guest]

" I suggest those who believe in those silly ideas present

some hard proof for their claims ... "

When I asked for your proof on another subject matter, you answered by

telling me to prove a negative to disprove your comments which were

without support materials. Why do you expect others to provide proof

when you refuse to do so?

Raven

[Guest guest]

Raven:

> When I asked for your proof on another subject matter, you answered by

> telling me to prove a negative to disprove your comments which were

> without support materials. Why do you expect others to provide proof

> when you refuse to do so?

I think there is a difference here. It is impossible for me to prove that

nobody have researched the autism - Hemochromatosis connection.

It is possible for anyone to confirm that research have been done, just

present a study. OTOH, it is perfectly possible to prove that A.F.F,

is ruling Wikipedia. Just research the background of significant

contributors to the autism and Asperger's articles. I'm one of them,

and I'm not " allied " with A.F.F. I also know several others that

are *not* allied with A.F.F. Therefore I claim this is an empty

statement without any substance to it.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Re:

> >

> Leif wrote: " I suggest those who believe in those silly ideas present

> some hard proof for their claims ... "

Delete the " silly, " and that suggestion makes sense to me.

Re:

>

> When I asked for your proof on another subject matter, you answered by

> telling me to prove a negative to disprove your comments which were

> without support materials. Why do you expect others to provide proof

> when you refuse to do so?

I heard once - and I believe it - that " Those who rely on 'You can't

prove a negative' rely, by that very statement, on an unproven

negative. "

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

Leif,

One of their staff, since banned, once confessed to being an admin. on

Wikipedia on the autism pages.

There was no speculation. It was a fact.

Tom

Administrator

I must say I'm pretty tired of the *speculations* that A.F.F. would

rule Wikipedia and boss around with lots of Websites. I don't

know about how many web-sites Amy and Gareth operates, and

frankly I don't care, but I know for sure A.F.F. isn't ruling

Wikipedia.

I suggest those who believe in those silly ideas present some hard

proof for their claims, or stop presenting them here every now

and then.

Leif

[Guest guest]

And I can attest to reading that statement by himself, on AI.

Inger

Re: A.F.F rules Wikipedia and so on

Leif,

One of their staff, since banned, once confessed to being an admin. on

Wikipedia on the autism pages.

There was no speculation. It was a fact.

Tom

Administrator

I must say I'm pretty tired of the *speculations* that A.F.F. would

rule Wikipedia and boss around with lots of Websites. I don't

know about how many web-sites Amy and Gareth operates, and

frankly I don't care, but I know for sure A.F.F. isn't ruling

Wikipedia.

I suggest those who believe in those silly ideas present some hard

proof for their claims, or stop presenting them here every now

and then.

Leif

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

> One of their staff, since banned, once confessed to being an admin. on

> Wikipedia on the autism pages.

Tom, there is no specific admin function on the autism pages. There

are wikipedians with admin priviledges, and those probably count in

thousands. They frequent all pages which interest them.

> There was no speculation. It was a fact.

Perhaps, but since there is nobody controlling the autism pages,

and specifically nobody with admin-rights, I can't see the relevance.

Anybody could make edits, and if they are accepted by a majority,

they are retained, otherwise people will revert. Sometimes there

are edit-wars, especially on " external links " . It is possible that

AFF has abnormal link coverage, but this is only a tiny bit of

the articles. In fact when Amy added her geek-quiz to

the AS article, people complained, but nobody reverted,

but some wanted to. I suspect they didn't want to challenge

her on it, and I certainly didn't because I had a link to Aspie-quiz

in the autism article.

I suggest you and do edits to the articles instead of

trying to insert external links, and you will see that it will

be retained if it is reasonable.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Possibly you can attest to the statement, but the idea that

somebody with admin rights control autism articles is

not true. Those who do not believe me can look for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

Especially look at " history " and the Talk: page. This will tell

you what is happening and who is changing the article.

Leif

Re: A.F.F rules Wikipedia and so on

>

>

> Leif,

>

> One of their staff, since banned, once confessed to being an admin. on

> Wikipedia on the autism pages.

>

> There was no speculation. It was a fact.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

>

> I must say I'm pretty tired of the *speculations* that A.F.F. would

> rule Wikipedia and boss around with lots of Websites. I don't

> know about how many web-sites Amy and Gareth operates, and

> frankly I don't care, but I know for sure A.F.F. isn't ruling

> Wikipedia.

>

> I suggest those who believe in those silly ideas present some hard

> proof for their claims, or stop presenting them here every now

> and then.

>

> Leif

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support

and

> acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

>

[Guest guest]

While I am it, somebody could just take out the newly inserted links

to CAN and the AGRE project. If several people do this, I'm sure

we will get rid of them. I'm a little surprised that nobody did, and

trying to be a bit moderate, I didn't want to be the first one to

revert them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

Go for it!

Leif

[Guest guest]

I said:

" One of their staff, since banned, once confessed to being an admin.

on Wikipedia on the autism pages. "

You said:

" Tom, there is no specific admin function on the autism pages. There

are wikipedians with admin priviledges, and those probably count in

thousands. They frequent all pages which interest them. "

Wrong.

Whoe it was that had admin privilleges on the admin pages deleted

anything I posted, including edits with posted sources, deleted all

links, and sent me private e-mails saying that I will never beat AFF

as long as he was in control of the autism pages on Wikipedia.

He was since fired from AFF.

and Maurice can tell you their own stories.

I said:

" There was no speculation. It was a fact. "

You replied:

" Perhaps, but since there is nobody controlling the autism pages,

and specifically nobody with admin-rights, I can't see the

relevance. "

At the time, the person must have had them, because he suspended my

ability to say anything at all in objection to his deletions of my

edits or links. Even some of my objections were deleted, including

where I quoted sources such as Attwood and .

" Anybody could make edits, and if they are accepted by a majority,

they are retained, otherwise people will revert. "

This was where AFF used their own members to fortify their side of

the issue. If you tried to bolster your side with quotes, they would

have their own members come on and not accept the source so it would

get rejected. Then, their admin on the autism page would side with

them to make it all seem legit.

" Sometimes there are edit-wars, especially on " external links " . It

is possible that AFF has abnormal link coverage, but this is only a

tiny bit of the articles. In fact when Amy added her geek-quiz to

the AS article, people complained, but nobody reverted,

but some wanted to. I suspect they didn't want to challenge

her on it, and I certainly didn't because I had a link to Aspie-quiz

in the autism article. "

They didn't want to challenge her on it because they knew they'd get

their links and edits deleted by the admin.

" I suggest you and do edits to the articles instead of

trying to insert external links, and you will see that it will

be retained if it is reasonable. "

I did the edits. They were deleted. All of them.

Although, curiously, when I did edits using a computer with a

different IP address, or if I did edits in support of AFF -including

flippant ones with no newsworthy relevance whatsoever (except of the

tabloid kind) - these edits were allowed to stand.

So it seems that they have somehow targeted my IP address, and that

they have targeted me directly, and anything that I edit or link to

does not stand there at all.

Tom

[Guest guest]

Sorry. I can no longer do that.

Even though I haven't posted anything to Wikipedia in months, this is

the message I get when I go there:

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert

rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also

please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. -

jredmond 21:52, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Apparently the block has never been removed.

Sorry Leif.

Tom

Administrator

While I am it, somebody could just take out the newly inserted links

to CAN and the AGRE project. If several people do this, I'm sure

we will get rid of them. I'm a little surprised that nobody did, and

trying to be a bit moderate, I didn't want to be the first one to

revert them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

Go for it!

Leif

[Guest guest]

> Sorry. I can no longer do that.

>

> Even though I haven't posted anything to Wikipedia in months, this is

> the message I get when I go there:

>

> You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert

> rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also

> please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. -

> jredmond 21:52, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

>

> Apparently the block has never been removed.

>

> Sorry Leif.

Give me your IP / User-id, and I will ask this jredmond guy

why you are still banned after such a long period of time.

Leif

[Guest guest]

" OK, there seems to have been a lot of strange things going on

there. "

You said it.

Go here to read about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aspies_For_Freedom

" Aspies For Freedom is a very easy group for members to get purged

from. It has no internal democracy, it only wants members who will

follow the leadership line on every issue. It is presently causing a

lot of bad feeling in the aspie community online, as dozens have

been hurt by AFF.Tern 21:55 22 Jul 2005 (UTC) "

Then we have:

" I am an admin and co-founder of AFF. Out of over 670 members, only

3 accounts are suspended. As I am sure wikipedia knows there will

always be a small element of trolls that all sites get from time to

time. The above user Tern has some kind of a grudge against AFF and

also wikipedia judging by his own site. I can happily disregard his

comments as being irrelevant. Gareth "

At this time, I, Inger, , Tern, Aspieknee, HomebakedDeb, and a

couple others were already banned, so Gareth was lying, but since

Debbie was dead, and I was prevented from posting on Wikipedia, I

could not refute this assertion by the time I saw it.

Joe Mele says:

" AFF is a notable organization. Mention many times in the media.

From the New Scientist to MSNBC.com and one of its members was

interviewed for a front page NY times article about an AFF sponsored

protest. Joe Mele JoeMele 00:37, 27 August 2005 (UTC) "

Here we have him making false allegations against me and :

" Joe --please don't throw the word " vandalism " around so easily.

When you said " repaired vandalism on the link for new scientist

article " , what you were more likely repairing was a typo, not

vandalism. RN is clearly trying to help here. Most of the non-AFF-

affiliated editors who have been working on this article (myself

included) are trying to improve it. Vandalism is a completely

different thing from typing " New York Times " when " New Scientist "

was intended... ManekiNeko | Talk 20:36, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

" Sorry i assumed it was tern or tom or nathan sorry JoeMele 20:54, 6

September 2005 (UTC) "

Clearly it's acceptable if RN changes something, but if and I

do it, it's vandalism.

Later on:

" I wish to clearly state that Joe Mele is not a founder, admin or

moderator of AFF. He is a member along with the other 735 members.

We do not condone his use of negative language that he has used on

this page and we have made this clear to him. His opinions are

entirely his own. User:Gareth "

Remeber that if you go to AFF, they solicited him to help out

because he is an autism rights advocate. Now they are denying him.

So Joe says...

" Thanks for stabbing me in the back for using the phrase " We dont

condone ... " etc JoeMele 16:09, 22 September 2005 (UTC) "

But they were still working together for a while. As you know, even

though everything tern posted on that site was the truth (I

communicated with Gareth's father, so I know,) they worked by hook

and by crook to shut it down:

" Tern's site was shut down. congrats as it should have been that

stuff about the family was not good. I cant say this to your face

now gareth, but good luck in dealing with your situation. perhaps

things will get better.JoeMele 15:48, 9 October 2005 (UTC) "

But then Amy and Gareth turn on him (I know the reason why, but will

not say), so Joe writes:

" I dont who to believe anymore. The anti-AFF'ers

tom,aspieeknee,nathan ,homebakeddeb or AFF. I staunchly defended

AFF . some of the anti-AFF'ers went over the line with personal info

on amy and gareth's family issues, or worse threaten their public

safety to calling the authorities to try to have their kids taken

away. Outrageous and unexcusable. But, Since I have been for being

not sociable enough or kind enough in my words. I was removed

without my permission from the autism assembly. I find that their

allies are removing my sites and now seeminglying no longer support

me nor the views that we held. Now the radical viewpoint seems to

have only been a ploy to get noticed. I feel they do want change.

but in a very much a way theat observes political correctness. This

approach doesnt address in a meaning way the injustices visted upon

autistics in every day life. Autistic Outrage only can convey the

import and the hurt and be the necessary vehicle of change. The anti-

AFF'ers complained about stalking and " things " that happened since

leaving AFF. i cannot vouch for that. But I do find that my

infraction was slight but I am treated liked the worst of the worst.

My repeated attempts to have a proverbial " sitdown " have been

rebuffed. Does any of this have a place in the wiki entry as tom and

others have tried?JoeMele 18:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC) "

One of the AFFer's sasys:

" I do understand what you are talking about. You are talking about

perceived feelings of isolation derived from your behaviour (which

you percieve as honorable, and fighting against antagonistic

entities, namely me, ManekiNeko, and .) being ostracised on

AFF's forums and here. And Joe, are you a psychologist? Beyond

having AS, what do you think qualifys YOU to accuse me of such

things? I would consider saying I know nothing about life a personal

attack as well. Despite my age, I would say I am able to discuss

things in a mature manner. In any case age is no guarantee of

wisdom. Lord 00:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC) "

Then some anonymous person:

" this would be why i was told to " fuck off " after i found out one of

their full names. --67.142.130.13 00:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC) "

[Guest guest]

> OK, there seems to have been a lot of strange things going on

> there.

>

> You said it.

>

> Go here to read about it:

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aspies_For_Freedom

I haven't payed much attention to AFFs own article. If

can provide something that would interest the press, it would

be quite easy to create & keep an article like AFFs on

Wikipedia. Basically all you need is a newspaper story

and it should be notable enough.

When you have your own wikipedia article, it is also easy to

motivate references from the usual autism articles. It is the

standard autism articles that most people will be likely to read,

and not AFFs private one. I tried this concept first with the

Neanderthal theory, which survived one deletion attempt, put

was deleted on a second attempt, after somebody had

renamed the article (bad idea). I also created the

" self-identification " article, and it was up for a couple of

months. Unfortunately, I didn't keep enough eye on it,

and didn't notice when it was voted for deletion. The

" causes of autism " and " autism therapy " articles was

another thing. Those never were threatened by deletion,

and quite frankly, I wouldn't care if they had been deleted.

The aim was to get this stuff out of the main articles so

less people would be likely to read it.

Leif

[Guest guest]

I am not going to get involed with a bunch of pethetic wiki articles, I did not go over the line and I reported as I saw on another site.I wanted to know if the kid was found or not.Also I am not interested in press, the news or wikipedia.. A.F.F will not be the center of much more important politic then the idiotic half truths of others.Real life folks, not A.F.F center of attention and there soap opras. REAL LIFE.Leif Ekblad <leif@...> wrote: > OK, there seems to have been a lot of strange things going on > there. > > You said it. > > Go here to read about it: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aspies_For_Freedom I haven't payed much attention to AFFs own article. If

can provide something that would interest the press, it would be quite easy to create & keep an article like AFFs on Wikipedia. Basically all you need is a newspaper story and it should be notable enough. When you have your own wikipedia article, it is also easy to motivate references from the usual autism articles. It is the standard autism articles that most people will be likely to read, and not AFFs private one. I tried this concept first with the Neanderthal theory, which survived one deletion attempt, put was deleted on a second attempt, after somebody had renamed the article (bad idea). I also created the "self-identification" article, and it was up for a couple of months. Unfortunately, I didn't keep enough eye on it, and didn't notice when it was voted for deletion. The "causes of autism" and "autism therapy" articles was another thing. Those never were threatened by deletion, and quite

frankly, I wouldn't care if they had been deleted. The aim was to get this stuff out of the main articles so less people would be likely to read it. Leif New Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

I've had two newspaper stories done on me and was on the bay area news

once, none of which I kept. Yet that had to do with computers not A.S.D's.

I don't believe I will do any wiki writings, it seems like a bunch of

social nonsense. I'd suspect that someone else will write concerning

any manifestation of the group to come, depending on its strength and

determination.

Also this N.T stuff is hogwash (nonsense).

I put more faith into the Autism Society of America then the

divisional polarities of cure autism now and anti-cure

anti-establishment conflicts.

>

>

> > OK, there seems to have been a lot of strange things going on

> > there.

> >

> > You said it.

> >

> > Go here to read about it:

> >

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aspies_For_Freedom

>

> I haven't payed much attention to AFFs own article. If

> can provide something that would interest the press, it would

> be quite easy to create & keep an article like AFFs on

> Wikipedia. Basically all you need is a newspaper story

> and it should be notable enough.

>

> When you have your own wikipedia article, it is also easy to

> motivate references from the usual autism articles. It is the

> standard autism articles that most people will be likely to read,

> and not AFFs private one. I tried this concept first with the

> Neanderthal theory, which survived one deletion attempt, put

> was deleted on a second attempt, after somebody had

> renamed the article (bad idea). I also created the

> " self-identification " article, and it was up for a couple of

> months. Unfortunately, I didn't keep enough eye on it,

> and didn't notice when it was voted for deletion. The

> " causes of autism " and " autism therapy " articles was

> another thing. Those never were threatened by deletion,

> and quite frankly, I wouldn't care if they had been deleted.

> The aim was to get this stuff out of the main articles so

> less people would be likely to read it.

>

> Leif

>

[Guest guest]

There are ways to self-publish on the newswires, and we can do it for

free. I know what they are. When we are prepared to publish, I will

show you how to do it.

Tom

Administrator

I've had two newspaper stories done on me and was on the bay area news

once, none of which I kept. Yet that had to do with computers not

A.S.D's.

I don't believe I will do any wiki writings, it seems like a bunch of

social nonsense. I'd suspect that someone else will write concerning

any manifestation of the group to come, depending on its strength and

determination.

Also this N.T stuff is hogwash (nonsense).

I put more faith into the Autism Society of America then the

divisional polarities of cure autism now and anti-cure

anti-establishment conflicts.

[Guest guest]

:

> I am not going to get involed with a bunch of pethetic wiki articles,

> I did not go over the line and I reported as I saw on another site.

> I wanted to know if the kid was found or not.

>

> Also I am not interested in press, the news or wikipedia.. A.F.F

> will not be the center of much more important politic then the idiotic

half truths of others.

You will get nowhere if you ignore the press and / or wikipedia.

FYI, just enter " autism " in a search engine, and you'll realize that

wikipedia's article will be among the first. This is why wikipedia,

and especially their featured articles, is not idiotic. Not only that,

many professional organizations use wikipedias content in their

own descriptions. You can find an enormous amount of this on

the net.

There has also been media-coverage on wikipedias quality

comparing them to encyclopedias, and those are favorable.

This is bound to increase the popularity of wikipedia since their

content is free.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Yes I am aware of that as a wiki article until a member of a.f.f publicly said he was the gate keeper of some sort of wiki and was going to make sure I was never going to be on it. Since then I gave up on it and many of the links went away. Yet A.F.F's links stayed, so i just shut down the site and am doing more focused things now instead of making a content super-power. It's idiotic because of the people who want to control it for the dominance of there P.V. I don't consider the wikipedia autism articles that great, its free content and there are contents available from the government which are better and more reliably professional. Such contents are free for distribution. Leif Ekblad <leif@...> wrote: : > I am not going to get involed with a

bunch of pethetic wiki articles, > I did not go over the line and I reported as I saw on another site. > I wanted to know if the kid was found or not. > > Also I am not interested in press, the news or wikipedia.. A.F.F > will not be the center of much more important politic then the idiotic half truths of others. You will get nowhere if you ignore the press and / or wikipedia. FYI, just enter "autism" in a search engine, and you'll realize that wikipedia's article will be among the first. This is why wikipedia, and especially their featured articles, is not idiotic. Not only that, many professional organizations use wikipedias content in their own descriptions. You can find an enormous amount of this on the net. There has also been media-coverage on wikipedias quality comparing them to encyclopedias, and those are favorable. This is bound to increase the popularity of wikipedia since their

content is free. Leif New Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Guest guest]

It's highly dependent on the path that is taken. I really do not want

phone calls from press figures, interview request or strange phone

calls like I received when I had publicity before.

If anything, it should be designed where I am not a central figure,

just doing a job and of course my advocacy interests.

>

> There are ways to self-publish on the newswires, and we can do it for

> free. I know what they are. When we are prepared to publish, I will

> show you how to do it.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

Thats why I think a non-centralized membership of leaders is best, rather then having the directive a few one one individual. It's just a way of organizating, I'm just organizing.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: wrote: > I really do not want phone calls from press figures, interview request or > strange phone calls like I received when I had publicity before. > If anything, it should be designed where I am not a central figure, just > doing a job and of course my advocacy interests. That's how I feel too. I'll be happy for your instruction on how to do it more discreetly. Inger New Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Guest guest]

I know how to do it. We'll talk about it.

> I really do not want phone calls from press figures, interview

request or strange phone calls like I received when I had publicity

before.

> If anything, it should be designed where I am not a central

figure, just doing a job and of course my advocacy interests.

That's how I feel too. I'll be happy for your instruction on how to

do it more discreetly.

Inger