Re: Witches, druids, shamans, et al

[Guest guest]

" Raven, that's ENOUGH! "

I posted that BEFORE I read your post so there's no reason to get

aggressive with your tone.

Raven

[Guest guest]

> Clearly Raven is merelt trying to assert that certain terms, such

> as " Indians " or even " Native Americans " can cause offense.

>

> Now that the assertion has been made, and presumably understood by

> all parties, we can proceed without argumentation over the point.

>

> Henceforth, when referring to what I would call Native Americans,

> and what others would call Indians, we will call people of such

> descent Aboriginals.

Sorry, but that would BADLY conflict with what Native Americans I know

have told me. THAT is what they want to be called. The only other way

they usually prefer to be addressed is with the specific names of

their nations.

Also I was under the impression that it was the word Aboriginals not

being used correctly that has caused offence if any word was even

involved.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

I was being assertive, not aggressive.

Inger

Re: Witches, druids, shamans, et al

" Raven, that's ENOUGH! "

I posted that BEFORE I read your post so there's no reason to get

aggressive with your tone.

Raven

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

Lwaxy

My ex-wife was Cherokee and my Uncle and sons Ojibwee. Both prefered

the term " Aborginal " but neither took offense with " Native

American. " It depends who you ask.

Tom

Administrator

> Clearly Raven is merely trying to assert that certain terms, such

> as " Indians " or even " Native Americans " can cause offense.

>

> Now that the assertion has been made, and presumably understood by

> all parties, we can proceed without argumentation over the point.

>

> Henceforth, when referring to what I would call Native Americans,

> and what others would call Indians, we will call people of such

> descent Aboriginals.

Sorry, but that would BADLY conflict with what Native Americans I

know have told me. THAT is what they want to be called. The only

other way they usually prefer to be addressed is with the specific

names of their nations.

Also I was under the impression that it was the word Aboriginals not

being used correctly that has caused offence if any word was even

involved.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> Is there like a list of which names are currently appropriate so

that I as

> an ignorant European don't to insulting anyone inadvertently?

>

I begin to see that it depends on what group you talk to. There are

black americans who wish to be called African Americans, some just

want to be called black Americans, some even want the seperating xxx

Americans gone completely. I know all black Germans I know detest

African German unless one part of ther parents came from Africa, and

even then they prefer just being black Germans.

I have, until now, only ever heard one specific complaint about Native

American (from US natives), and that was about not being all that

happy with being called American anything as they never agreed to have

their land called America. But they also acknowledged that it was

about impossible for non-natives to understand and keep in mind who

belongs to what nation.

lwaxy

[Guest guest]

I'm trying to keep up with posts here.

I have asked you BOTH to cool it. You sent an extra reply, and so did she. I

was hoping that would have cleared up the last of it.

You are both of course free to continue discussing the subject IF you can do

so without insulting each other. If you can't, I'll have to ask Tom to put

both of you on moderation. (I'm sure that won't be necessary, right?)

Inger

Co-administrator

Inger WAS:: Witches, druids, shamans, et al

And the sharp rebuke for Lwaxy is forthcoming since she had already

read your post and said she would refrain from posting any further on

this topic?

Raven

>

>

> > Insufferable attitude without facts is arrogance. Attitude with

> > facts is admirable. You call this arrogance because you do not

know.

>

> Actually, I called you arrogant because I think you are in this case.

> You turn my words around as it pleases you and present yourself very

> defensive.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

>

> Lwaxy

>

> My ex-wife was Cherokee and my Uncle and sons Ojibwee. Both prefered

> the term " Aborginal " but neither took offense with " Native

> American. " It depends who you ask.

I see. Did they say " US Aboriginals " then? Because seriously, I am an

aboriginal myself... of my own country. And with the many non-natives

we have by now, we are already using similar terms for ourselves more

and more. I think if the use of aboriginal would be more widespread,

plenty of people, me included, would be confused as to who people were

talking about quite a lot.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

It depends on which part of the country/continent you come from.

Some African Americans I know like " African " to be used because it

expresses their heritage. Others do not because it seems derrogatory

given the connotation that many whites associate with the word (i.e.

primitivism).

Native Americans vs. Aboriginals are terms that have similar murky

issues.

Tom

Administrator

I thought Native American was a respectful designation because

that's what I've been told. I thought African American was

respectful because that's what I've been told. If those have

recently changed into other, even MORE respectful designations, I'd

be happy to be informed of it.

Inger

[Guest guest]

I'd like NOT to be ham-fisted with moderation if I can help it.

Raven has demonstrated considerable maturity throughout most of her

posting, but Lwaxy has been taunting the past couple of days

and annoying Raven just a bit.

If everyone settles down, no one need be moderated.

Especially since I, you and everyone else has gotten a wee bit too

big for our britches lately over the various topics.

Put succinctly, if I moderated everyone who needed moderating,

would probably be the only one posting to this board right now.

Tom

Administrator

Insufferable attitude without facts is arrogance. Attitude with

facts is admirable. You call this arrogance because you do not

know.

>

Actually, I called you arrogant because I think you are in this case.

You turn my words around as it pleases you and present yourself very

defensive.

[Guest guest]

LOL! Very true!

Me not least - I'm sure I've been rather a pain in the neck here lately.

I'll try to behave now. :-)

Inger

Re: Witches, druids, shamans, et al

I'd like NOT to be ham-fisted with moderation if I can help it.

Raven has demonstrated considerable maturity throughout most of her

posting, but Lwaxy has been taunting the past couple of days

and annoying Raven just a bit.

If everyone settles down, no one need be moderated.

Especially since I, you and everyone else has gotten a wee bit too

big for our britches lately over the various topics.

Put succinctly, if I moderated everyone who needed moderating,

would probably be the only one posting to this board right now.

Tom

Administrator

Insufferable attitude without facts is arrogance. Attitude with

facts is admirable. You call this arrogance because you do not

know.

>

Actually, I called you arrogant because I think you are in this case.

You turn my words around as it pleases you and present yourself very

defensive.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

They prefered " Aboriginals " to " Native Americans " for the reason you

said. It was the whites who named their country after Amerigo

Vespucci, the forunner of all the whites who destroyed their

ancestors.

However, they prefered " Native Americans " to " US Aboriginals "

because it was the US who ethnically cleansed the country of

Aboriginals, stole their lands, and then gave only a fraction of

that stolen property back as " Reservations. "

One must understand -getting back to Ravens four types of clay

describing the origins of man- that it wasn't a problem for my

Cherokee ex-wife to marry me or my Ojibwe/Chippewa Uncle to marry

into a white family and " interbreed " with them. We all come from the

earth after all.

Likewise, I don't think the people of South American have a problem

with the fact that their mixed ancestry is composed of Aboriginal

South Americans and Spaniards.

It's when you have one race subjugating another that you have

peoples wanting to separate one another by designation.

Tom

Administrator

>

> Lwaxy

>

My ex-wife was Cherokee and my Uncle and sons Ojibwee. Both prefered

the term " Aborginal " but neither took offense with " Native

American. " It depends who you ask.

I see. Did they say " US Aboriginals " then? Because seriously, I am an

aboriginal myself... of my own country. And with the many non-natives

we have by now, we are already using similar terms for ourselves more

and more. I think if the use of aboriginal would be more widespread,

plenty of people, me included, would be confused as to who people

were

talking about quite a lot.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> Raven has demonstrated considerable maturity throughout most of her

> posting, but Lwaxy has been taunting the past couple of days

> and annoying Raven just a bit.

Now you are wrong. Maturity by turning my words around? Constantly

ignoring all of what I said? Ah I see. You defend your friends. It's

no different here than in the real world, where no matter what I do,

I'm always the bad one and when I speak my mind I am " taunting " no

matter how others hurt me. Cliques matter.

I'm leaving the list. I don't need this. And yes, you hurt me with

this crap taking and made me cry. You won. I will never belong

anywhere as I do no matter.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Raven has been over the top with you too Lwaxy.

Tom

Administrator

> Raven has demonstrated considerable maturity throughout most of her

> posting, but Lwaxy has been taunting the past couple of

days

> and annoying Raven just a bit.

Now you are wrong. Maturity by turning my words around? Constantly

ignoring all of what I said? Ah I see. You defend your friends. It's

no different here than in the real world, where no matter what I do,

I'm always the bad one and when I speak my mind I am " taunting " no

matter how others hurt me. Cliques matter.

I'm leaving the list. I don't need this. And yes, you hurt me with

this crap taking and made me cry. You won. I will never belong

anywhere as I do no matter.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

To be honest not all that are Christian (or say they are) are good. I

know of fundamental Christians repeatedly burning down a bookshop in

Leeds, despite the bookshop moving location a couple of times - I

know now that the said bookshop will not open publicly now and only

deals in mail order. I think they had to put up with a lot of hassle

aswell.

I can see how some Christians have come to be feared with very good

reasons.

>

>

> > Then you should only speak on behalf of those you represent as

opposed

> > to " all " those who practice what you call non-Christian

spirituality.

>

>

> Uhm, I don't speak FOR anyone, I speak ABOUT the people I know. I

> don't think I ever mentioned the word " all " anywhere..?

>

> I'm confused... I can hardly expect people from my groups to collect

> signatures to post here to show how many people fear the Christians?

> And what good would that do? Asides, I'm perfectly authorized to

speak

> " on behalf " of my tradition, and my friends would expect me to speak

> on their behalf any time where such general matters are concerned.

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/22/2006 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

To be honest not all that are Christian (or say they are) are good. I know of fundamental Christians repeatedly burning down a bookshop in Leeds, despite the bookshop moving location a couple of times - I know now that the said bookshop will not open publicly now and only deals in mail order. I think they had to put up with a lot of hassle aswell.

Not everyone who claims to be Christian is, like the priest who falsely accused a friend of mine of molesting his son. Since the man had tried this at his preivous church with another old man, it is believed the priest was trying to swing a conviction so he could sue the church for millions, as happened with another case a few years prior to this priest's attempt at his other church. Its odd that they keep that man around: every church given him ends up in tatters. My friend's church was one of the oldest in the area with a lively congregation. After this affair, it is down to 1/4 what it had been.

My father was also thought to be a good man and Christian. He was so good butter wouldn't melt in his mouth, in public. But at home he was completely different. Never really physically abusive, but mentally he was brutal. Never used Christianity itself as a weapon, but always being cutting and belittling. Lots of anger too and one could never be sure when he would explode.