Re: How do you say No to families at holidays?

[Guest guest]

I'm pretty sure most of us are " that person " at family get togethers. I know I

am and we too have two small children. I've approached the situation differently

based upon the ages of my children. When my son was very young and didn't have

an opinion about much yet, I decided for him about what he ate. No sugar or

refined stuff. My MIL tried to force cake on him after I specifically said that

if he wanted cake, he could feed it to himself after he'd eaten a good dinner.

He was 2, didn't know what cake was and was perfectly satisfied with what we'd

brought him for dinner. In private I spoke to her and urged her to allow me to

be the parent and not to " start fires " so to speak about something as trivial as

cake.

Now that our oldest is 4, we simply make the cakes for the parties no matter how

inconvenient. There are great coconut flour recipes for cupcakes that I've found

to be a big hit with kids and grownups. Cheesecake is another one that gets race

reviews and doesn't require a ton of sugar. We do this will other things too

such as turkeys at the holidays. At this age we do allow our son to experiment

around a bit in terms of food choice. It never fails that when he makes a poor

choice, he doesnt feel well and it becomes a teachable moment.

One rule that we follow as a family is that if the adults are allowed to eat it,

so are the kids. That puts the responsibility on us to set the example we want

followed or to slide a bit and pay the consequence s later.

Something that I try to keep in mind is that when people cook or bake and truly

enjoy it, they are putting their heart and soul into it. They might be willing

to work within the parameters you need at the time if you let them know what

they are. For example if you want a low sugar or gluten free dessert, consider

passing along a few recipes or a cookbook that are acceptable and allow the

baker to experiment around.

Hope that helps

Susie Z

[Guest guest]

Tell them you are working on his gut health and it is Doctor's orders to not

have wheat or HFCS or GMO corn or whatever till he is over 4.

We really had no problems using this technique until they were older. Now I KNOW

the issues caused by " just cheating for a few days " and it is absolutly no

problem for me to say " no " . My MIL would not say anything to me but then I bring

80% of the food for 15 plus people so she is annoyed I am sure but will not feed

my kids anything I have not provided. Now I find the other kids and adults

" stealing " our food! They are just eating what tastes good. My SIL is GF now so

that helps a little.

My Mom is a whole different thing....almost EXACTLY what you described. I even

had to keep our nanny at our house when she visits so they can watch her. She

has said she will feed them ice cream/oreos and snickers as soon as I leave. She

even knows my daughter has a life threating peanut allergy. Does not matter to

her so she is no longer allowed alone with them. I just can't trust her.

Family....sigh.....

I already have the turkey for Thanksgiving and will be getting it to my MIL next

week so she can make it.

Best of luck. Hold your ground. Your children's and grand children's health is

so important. You are the guardian of the future.

[Guest guest]

I have found that saying, " Our child's pediatrician said.... " is a good way to

keep relatives and friends out of my son's diet. At least until he was old

enough to talk for himself.

(I breastfed - with other foods, of course! - until he was 6. I had to start

lying about it to keep their noses out of my shirt.)

My own mother doesn't yet understand why I can't eat sugary things without

getting cramps, gas and diarrhea. She seems to take it personally that I don't

eat jello. (she taught me how to cook, and really gave me a good grounding in

food, but she likes to make sure people have treats to eat.)

I remind her that the last time I ate a cookie at her house, I just about fell

asleep while driving home. It isn't that she means me any harm, she keeps

reverting back to what she knows, and what works for her. I will often smell

what she's prepared, or have just a taste, not enough to do my system any harm.

Sometimes I give a deep sigh, and say how good it smells, and that I wish my

body could handle it. I want her to understand I'm not a snob, and it isn't her

fault that I am unable to eat her treats.

Be gentle, be firm. It isn't about them, it is about your body. A one-year-old

isn't really ready for a store-bought cake, anyway! (maybe a few crumbs of the

cake, but no frosting!)

Best wishes,

Linafelter

>

> My husband and I are kind of the odd ones out in our family. We eat along the

Weston A Price fondation and are very health conscious. When we visit my

husbands family we have always put our diet (Or should I say lifestyle) on hold

to eat their food. They live about 5 hours away so its only an occasional thing.

My husbands grandma is dying and she loves to cook. We know how much it means to

her when we eat it, but it is nowhere near healthy. We do it to make her happy.

>

> The problem is, is that our son will be having his first birthday party up at

his great grandma's house this weekend. His aunt bought him a store bought

birthday cake and my husbands father called to ask if our son, Mason, will be

having any of the cake. I told him that he will not be. See, I'm fine with my

husband and I cheating on our lifestyle for a few days out of the year, but I am

not fine with our son eating the cake or having any of his great grandma's food.

I dont want it in his system, even if its an occasional thing.

>

> The last time they saw our son was thanksgiving and he was four months old. My

husbands Aunt was joking about feeding him some green jello and we just laughed

it off. Later, they were sitting at the table and she stuck a spoonfull in his

mouth! I told her that Mason had not even started solids yet and I did not want

him having anything. She later told my husband that she was very hurt. She made

the comment that if we are going to eat their food (I breastfeed) mason is still

getting it too so it doesnt make a difference. I'm scared that they will expect

him to have some cake and eat his great grandma's food. I don't have supplies to

make him his own cake, but I plan on packing him his own food and snacks for the

trip. (I do plan on making him his own birthday cake for his birthday with us,

which is in a few weeks)

>

> So my question is, when it comes to holidays what do you tell your family?

This has always been, and will continue to be a problem for us. We're fine

telling our other family " no " but my husbands grandma we dont want to upset.

What should we do in our situation? I am positive that they will be very pushy

and insist he eat some cake and other food.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the suggestions. My husband and I, are pretty sure we have a gluten

intolerance. We're planning on going to a naturopathic doctor to get this

confirmed and find out what else we have going on but untill then we dont really

have an excuse for ourselves to not eat the food. I agree that its not fair that

we " cheat " and not let our son too. We have to find someway to make this work.

Heres an update as to what happened. I guess nobody told my husbands grandma

that our son would not be having any cake. She bought it and gave him a little

piece under the table. He didnt know what it was. He ended up hitting his head

under the table and started to cry and so I picked him up and pulled the cake

from his mouth. He was tired and ready for a nap and as I was walking away I

said to my husband " I really didnt want him having any cake. " My husbands

grandma left and I guess she cried all the way home. She just wanted him to have

the first birthday " experience " and was hurt by the way I reacted. I only

reacted the way that I did because I felt like she was going behind our wishes

and giving it to him anyway. I apologized because I understood how she felt, but

I was hurt too.

I just am at such a loss. I feel torn. I want to make them happy but this past

weekend I felt so sick because of what we had been eating. My husband has told

me how much his grandma enjoys cooking but I'd hate to ask her to make it a

certain way. She makes alot of homemade meals but she's so used to using

packaged and processed foods as " fillers " that I dont know if she would be

willing.

[Guest guest]

Wow. That is hard. Why do we (including all of us Trad Foodies) get so wrapped

up into the emotionn of food? Can't you celebrate by being together and enjoying

each other and letting each person eat what makes their body feel best?

Sorry this was such a cruddy experience for you. Hope it gets easier.

[Guest guest]

Ugg. I'm so sorry things didn't go well. Sadly, this is all too common for lots

of us trad foodies. It is frustrating that, when met with pressure to eat

non-nourishing foods, our answer often seems to be to stretch the truth about

food-sensitivities, " medical conditions " etc - reasons why we CAN'T eat that

certain food. And then it just turns into a series of excuses. So we aren't

living authentically. Thus we walk away feeling miserable -on top of physically

feeling yucky from processed/junk foods.

Ultimately the excuse tactic (though I've too-often used it) actually hurts our

cause. It's then as if WE are the unhealthy ones with all these problems and

can't live like " normal " people. This certainly doesn't honor the wisdom of our

traditional foods diet. I think the problem lies in the complexities of the

diet/how to explain it succinctly to people. When I was a vegetarian/vegan

(egads!), it was a ton easier to get people to respect my choices. It was clear

to people what I " couldn't " have.

FWIW, in these situations, I'm trying to just be nonchalant about things (a

simple " no thank-you " ). And then if pressed, just be honest: " We feel better

when we eat whole foods " and then move on and find another way to connect

(because it likely won't be with food sadly). We also avoid " conventional " food

parties and events or go after the meal except the really important holidays

where we bring our own food (usually a hearty side dish that can mostly fill our

plates). I will say, over time, my loved ones have grown to understand us a bit

more - and do try. It takes patience on both sides I'm sure.

I hope you are able to find some peace with all of this. You clearly didn't mean

to hurt anyone's feelings but don't want your family to feel yucky either.

.

[Guest guest]

I think we get so wrapped up into the emotion of food because its our lifestyle.

A diet is temporary, but a lifestyle is how you choose to live, not something

you only choose to do when its convenient. But then from the other perspective,

food brings people together. At holidays you sit and enjoy a meal and spend

quality time with your family members. It's been that way throughout history,

food is an amazing socializer, it brings people together.

>

>

>

> Wow. That is hard. Why do we (including all of us Trad Foodies) get so wrapped

up into the emotionn of food? Can't you celebrate by being together and enjoying

each other and letting each person eat what makes their body feel best?

>

> Sorry this was such a cruddy experience for you. Hope it gets easier.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

Proud Mama of two small girls (3 years and 8 months) here. While my family lives

out of state, my in-laws live in Elk River and not only do we spend a good deal

of time there for holidays and get-togethers but Grandma does quite a bit of

babysitting. We have encountered a similar nutrition issue (one which I find odd

as my Mother in Law grew up on a farm herself and grew up drinking raw milk and

eating wholesome traditional food) as they eat a lot of processed, cheap excuse

my language CRAP. I tried to " pick my battles " so to speak when my oldest began

spending an occasional night there around 2 years old, but the immediate change

in her when she was brought home was undeniable. She ALWAYS had a runny nose,

was constipated or had loose stools, and was a behavioral nightmare when she is

usually pretty mellow and easy-going kid. When I inquired what she was being fed

I learned to my dismay that she was being fed what her cousins at fed at home:

Tyson chicken nuggets, sugary cereal, cheaply salted processed pot roast, dead

frozen veggies, etc. and her little immune system just couldn't handle even a

couple of days of it without it taking a toll.

Here's what I did : I talked to my husband as it is HIS family and therefore HE

is the one who is responsible to deal with issues regarding in-laws (and vice

versa). We also decided to pack all of her staple foods (milk, yogurt, veggies,

meat, etc.) and he had to tell his Mother in a firm but respectful manner that

she needed to be fed a more wholesome diet while she was over there or we

couldn't do any more overnights. I could tell it hurt her but I think as I am

starting to share with her the importance of eating well she is starting to come

around. I print off flyers and also have recommended some books to her

(Omnivore's Dilemma, Real Food, etc.) which is helping. I am not going to freak

out over the occasional cookie or lollipop, but when it comes to my child being

made ill by horrible food it is my duty as a parent to step in. She just isn't

used to that food and I don't ever want her to be.

So my advice to you is: bring as much of your own food as possible, maybe

lighten up on the cake thing if you can just the one time (unless you can't and

I completely understand), and have your husband explain in a respectful way why

you choose to eat the way you do, why it is important to your family, and that

if they can't respect that visits will be limited and they will not be allowed

to be unsupervised with your son. Good luck!

>

> My husband and I are kind of the odd ones out in our family. We eat along the

Weston A Price fondation and are very health conscious. When we visit my

husbands family we have always put our diet (Or should I say lifestyle) on hold

to eat their food. They live about 5 hours away so its only an occasional thing.

My husbands grandma is dying and she loves to cook. We know how much it means to

her when we eat it, but it is nowhere near healthy. We do it to make her happy.

>

> The problem is, is that our son will be having his first birthday party up at

his great grandma's house this weekend. His aunt bought him a store bought

birthday cake and my husbands father called to ask if our son, Mason, will be

having any of the cake. I told him that he will not be. See, I'm fine with my

husband and I cheating on our lifestyle for a few days out of the year, but I am

not fine with our son eating the cake or having any of his great grandma's food.

I dont want it in his system, even if its an occasional thing.

>

> The last time they saw our son was thanksgiving and he was four months old. My

husbands Aunt was joking about feeding him some green jello and we just laughed

it off. Later, they were sitting at the table and she stuck a spoonfull in his

mouth! I told her that Mason had not even started solids yet and I did not want

him having anything. She later told my husband that she was very hurt. She made

the comment that if we are going to eat their food (I breastfeed) mason is still

getting it too so it doesnt make a difference. I'm scared that they will expect

him to have some cake and eat his great grandma's food. I don't have supplies to

make him his own cake, but I plan on packing him his own food and snacks for the

trip. (I do plan on making him his own birthday cake for his birthday with us,

which is in a few weeks)

>

> So my question is, when it comes to holidays what do you tell your family?

This has always been, and will continue to be a problem for us. We're fine

telling our other family " no " but my husbands grandma we dont want to upset.

What should we do in our situation? I am positive that they will be very pushy

and insist he eat some cake and other food.

>

[Guest guest]

This is a great thread. These issues are so hard!

I was wondering if there is anyone out there with older kids who has

successfully navigated all of this and would be willing to chime in.

Mine are 6 and 9 and it strikes me that this subject gets increasingly

complex as the kids get older and we have less day to day control over

'everything' they do and they get more alert to how the rest of the world

eats. We want them to embrace our food choices not feel trapped by them.

But the reality is they are bombarded by SAD practices everywhere they go

and a lot of the time that stuff looks 'better' to them. My own hope and

goal is that they will (ultimately over time and in the long run) genuinely

WANT the better food we take such great pains to provide them with and not

just run screaming from my house in search of junk in other people's houses

(my 6 yr old son has a crooked smile and tells me - for effect - that his

favorite food is " Red Dye 40 " ).

Struggling with extended family members is stressful and I know many of us

also struggle with spouses/partners who are less committed to their health

journeys but it's as if there are no conflict free zones at all.

- Of course my kids bring lunch and don't eat the school lunch

stuff but it looks 'cool' and exciting and they beg to eat from the

cafeteria and regale me of stories about how everyone else has " lunch

dessert " every day and things with frosting and etc etc

- Sports teams. Ugh sports teams. You'd think that could be a

healthy place. But no, EVERY WEEK after hockey practice my son is bombarded

with non-food items.like blue Gatorade and GoGurt w/artificial colors and

pop tart looking things. It's almost impossible to deny it all (the way I

did when he was 3 or even 4) b/c it just builds resentment and part of what

we are trying to accomplish is the wisdom/knowledge that we feel differently

and act differently when we are fed well. Often I forbid the worst of it

and then give him the choice to 'trade' for something 'better' we keep at

home. The something 'better' isn't ever something I really want him to eat

but it's always an improvement on what is offered and he often (thank

goodness) goes for it

- SCHOOL. My son's first grade teacher does food rewards. Every

day. The table that is most quiet during sustained silent reading gets a

piece of candy. My son's table is quiet (which I would ordinarily think of

as a good thing). Yes I could forbid my son to eat it. And yes I can

approach the teacher about not using food rewards (or offer to buy

substitute candy that would be free of corn syrup and artificials) but this

is a beloved teacher that has been doing this kind of garbage for 20+ years

and is otherwise terrific and I am pretty sure he'll ignore me.

- Halloween, Christmas, birthday parties, play dates. All fraught

with bad food.

- Haircuts, dry cleaners, well meaning neighbors all offering junk.

You name it. It's offered..and the kids (at least mine) really do want it

all!

It's not that we can't and don't say no (we do; believe me we do). It's not

that we don't try to create a loving meaningful context for the way we (try)

to eat and live. It's not that they don't already know more about the

difference between cane sugar and maple syrup and high fructose corn syrup

or white flour and sprouted grains and etc than your average American adult

does. But there is a relentless pace of rotten offerings and it's

wearisome! Like inhabiting an alternative universe!!

Best of luck with the grandma. If she cried all the way home b/c you

refused a piece of cake for a one year old baby the issues run deeper than

the cake to be sure. The only advice I can offer - and I hope it doesn't

sound too gloomy as it is not meant to be is - relish the time with your

infants and toddlers when you still 'do' have control over most bites they

take and know that all that loving care will help fortify their immune

systems when they encounter the 'rest of the world'. And try to build a

relationship of trust and respect as they age so that, while they might

start begging for Halloween candy at some point in time, the seeds you plant

and the meals you prepare will hopefully take root over time and for the

long haul and for their long health. I do know a couple of elementary aged

kids who refuse the bad stuff in principle; but I can't say I know many!!!

Josie

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of aacunninham

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: How do you say " No " to families at holidays?

Hi there,

Proud Mama of two small girls (3 years and 8 months) here. While my family

lives out of state, my in-laws live in Elk River and not only do we spend a

good deal of time there for holidays and get-togethers but Grandma does

quite a bit of babysitting. We have encountered a similar nutrition issue

(one which I find odd as my Mother in Law grew up on a farm herself and grew

up drinking raw milk and eating wholesome traditional food) as they eat a

lot of processed, cheap excuse my language CRAP. I tried to " pick my

battles " so to speak when my oldest began spending an occasional night there

around 2 years old, but the immediate change in her when she was brought

home was undeniable. She ALWAYS had a runny nose, was constipated or had

loose stools, and was a behavioral nightmare when she is usually pretty

mellow and easy-going kid. When I inquired what she was being fed I learned

to my dismay that she was being fed what her cousins at fed at home: Tyson

chicken nuggets, sugary cereal, cheaply salted processed pot roast, dead

frozen veggies, etc. and her little immune system just couldn't handle even

a couple of days of it without it taking a toll.

Here's what I did : I talked to my husband as it is HIS family and therefore

HE is the one who is responsible to deal with issues regarding in-laws (and

vice versa). We also decided to pack all of her staple foods (milk, yogurt,

veggies, meat, etc.) and he had to tell his Mother in a firm but respectful

manner that she needed to be fed a more wholesome diet while she was over

there or we couldn't do any more overnights. I could tell it hurt her but I

think as I am starting to share with her the importance of eating well she

is starting to come around. I print off flyers and also have recommended

some books to her (Omnivore's Dilemma, Real Food, etc.) which is helping. I

am not going to freak out over the occasional cookie or lollipop, but when

it comes to my child being made ill by horrible food it is my duty as a

parent to step in. She just isn't used to that food and I don't ever want

her to be.

So my advice to you is: bring as much of your own food as possible, maybe

lighten up on the cake thing if you can just the one time (unless you can't

and I completely understand), and have your husband explain in a respectful

way why you choose to eat the way you do, why it is important to your

family, and that if they can't respect that visits will be limited and they

will not be allowed to be unsupervised with your son. Good luck!

>

> My husband and I are kind of the odd ones out in our family. We eat along

the Weston A Price fondation and are very health conscious. When we visit my

husbands family we have always put our diet (Or should I say lifestyle) on

hold to eat their food. They live about 5 hours away so its only an

occasional thing. My husbands grandma is dying and she loves to cook. We

know how much it means to her when we eat it, but it is nowhere near

healthy. We do it to make her happy.

>

> The problem is, is that our son will be having his first birthday party up

at his great grandma's house this weekend. His aunt bought him a store

bought birthday cake and my husbands father called to ask if our son, Mason,

will be having any of the cake. I told him that he will not be. See, I'm

fine with my husband and I cheating on our lifestyle for a few days out of

the year, but I am not fine with our son eating the cake or having any of

his great grandma's food. I dont want it in his system, even if its an

occasional thing.

>

> The last time they saw our son was thanksgiving and he was four months

old. My husbands Aunt was joking about feeding him some green jello and we

just laughed it off. Later, they were sitting at the table and she stuck a

spoonfull in his mouth! I told her that Mason had not even started solids

yet and I did not want him having anything. She later told my husband that

she was very hurt. She made the comment that if we are going to eat their

food (I breastfeed) mason is still getting it too so it doesnt make a

difference. I'm scared that they will expect him to have some cake and eat

his great grandma's food. I don't have supplies to make him his own cake,

but I plan on packing him his own food and snacks for the trip. (I do plan

on making him his own birthday cake for his birthday with us, which is in a

few weeks)

>

> So my question is, when it comes to holidays what do you tell your family?

This has always been, and will continue to be a problem for us. We're fine

telling our other family " no " but my husbands grandma we dont want to upset.

What should we do in our situation? I am positive that they will be very

pushy and insist he eat some cake and other food.

>

[Guest guest]

just bring snicker salad and be happy! sorry just had to bring that up

again. here is a recipe for the newbies. My in-laws say it gets kids to eat

fruit.

SNICKERS® SALAD

1 (3 oz.) instant French vanilla pudding

1 c. milk

8 oz. Cool Whip

3 SNICKERS® bars

2 green apples (Granny )

Cut apples and candy bars into bite size pieces.

Variation: Use 5 or 6 large apples, 5 or 6 SNICKERS® bars and an 8-12 ounce

container Cool Whip. Omit milk and vanilla pudding.

[Guest guest]

On 10/11/2011 8:15 PM, Kathy-jo wrote:

>

> SNICKERS® SALAD

>

I'd like to offer a couple of improvements to that fine recipe:

1. Add a generous sprinkling of " sugar cube croutons " on top, and

2. Ladle on a few tablespoons of high fructose corn syrup as a tasty

" salad dressing " .

:-)

Gail

[Guest guest]

----Great story re: the lunches and the school. I too pack lunches for my

kids each day. It's the only way! Can I ask though, how did your

grandchildren handle the whole treat thing (at school and elsewhere)? Did

they become advocates for the way their family eats or did they feel as if

they were missing out on something/push back on your daughter's rules? And

did their understanding evolve over time? If they are older now (say teens

or beyond) how are they handling their own health now? How did your

daughter handle birthday parties? I send my own cakes/cupcakes to parties

but often the store bought ones have fancier decorations that look so

enticing to kids; and even though my homemade items are better for them, the

number of birthday party invites far exceeds the number of 'sugar' events I

would like my children to ever participate in! And by the way do any of you

have college-aged kids who are taking their family's healthy ways to the

dorms with any success??? I remember hearing a story from Kathy awhile back

about how her son had moved home after college and gradually come to see

that his mom's way of eating wasn't as nuts as he always thought it was!!

I love hearing stories of older kids who came through the social fabric

'wanting' traditional foods instead of feeling they were being cheated out

of high fructose corn syrup and factory farmed meat and brightly colored

nasty items that the other kids 'got' to eat. I think many of us here grew

up on some version of SAD and came to better eating as adults. But many of

us parents are trying to raise these kids healthy 'from the ground up' with

an entirely different set of challenges. It's tricky business!

On a related note, a friend of mine who is a chiropractor with two very

healthy unvaccinated children, was dumbfounded when her eldest child came

home from 5th grade and announced that she 'wanted' to get the flu shot.

The child had 'bought' the school's propaganda and thought perhaps her mom's

decision to avoid vaccinations was incorrect. Turned out to be a teaching

moment in that family and yet.these sorts of issues are real for those of us

who are so out of the mainstream in our health and food choices. It extends

well beyond the family gatherings that frustrate so many of us.

It's relatively easy to control what they eat when they are very little

(barring a few uncomfortable interactions with school personnel and family

members etc). But as they get older we need their buy-in and their

cooperation too.

No real answers, just learning as I go.and happy there are others out there

walking the same walk.

Take care

Josie

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of cjosephj

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:52 PM

Subject: Re: How do you say " No " to families at holidays?

As to how to handle schools, I absolutely LOVE what my daughter did to stop

the school from giving her children " treats " and special occasion pizza

party food, etc. First of all, she packed their lunches every day, including

beverage and water, and wonderful snacks and desserts that were the envy of

all the other children. They were firmly instructed to never share, but

bring back home anything they didn't finish, because she didn't know if

others might be allergic to something. The school had also been instructed

in writing that her children were on special diets for health reasons, and

were never to be given anything other than what she provided.

Then, after several incidents where a teacher gave a " treat " to one of her

children anyway, my daughter went to the principal and (very sweetly)

demanded to see a copy of the school's liability insurance policy, and

particularly the section that explicitly covers damages caused by food items

provided by the school against parents' wishes, because if the coverage was

insufficient for what was becoming an increasingly expensive threat, she

wanted to start now to go through the proper channels to have the school

increase their coverage.

It worked like magic! Not only did the " treats " stop, but the teachers

actually became protective of my grandchildren and made sure none of the

other children gave them anything in a misguided act of kindness or

" sharing. "

[Guest guest]

----Great story re: the lunches and the school. I too pack lunches for my

kids each day. It's the only way! Can I ask though, how did your

grandchildren handle the whole treat thing (at school and elsewhere)? Did

they become advocates for the way their family eats or did they feel as if

they were missing out on something/push back on your daughter's rules? And

did their understanding evolve over time? If they are older now (say teens

or beyond) how are they handling their own health now? How did your

daughter handle birthday parties? I send my own cakes/cupcakes to parties

but often the store bought ones have fancier decorations that look so

enticing to kids; and even though my homemade items are better for them, the

number of birthday party invites far exceeds the number of 'sugar' events I

would like my children to ever participate in! And by the way do any of you

have college-aged kids who are taking their family's healthy ways to the

dorms with any success??? I remember hearing a story from Kathy awhile back

about how her son had moved home after college and gradually come to see

that his mom's way of eating wasn't as nuts as he always thought it was!!

I love hearing stories of older kids who came through the social fabric

'wanting' traditional foods instead of feeling they were being cheated out

of high fructose corn syrup and factory farmed meat and brightly colored

nasty items that the other kids 'got' to eat. I think many of us here grew

up on some version of SAD and came to better eating as adults. But many of

us parents are trying to raise these kids healthy 'from the ground up' with

an entirely different set of challenges. It's tricky business!

On a related note, a friend of mine who is a chiropractor with two very

healthy unvaccinated children, was dumbfounded when her eldest child came

home from 5th grade and announced that she 'wanted' to get the flu shot.

The child had 'bought' the school's propaganda and thought perhaps her mom's

decision to avoid vaccinations was incorrect. Turned out to be a teaching

moment in that family and yet.these sorts of issues are real for those of us

who are so out of the mainstream in our health and food choices. It extends

well beyond the family gatherings that frustrate so many of us.

It's relatively easy to control what they eat when they are very little

(barring a few uncomfortable interactions with school personnel and family

members etc). But as they get older we need their buy-in and their

cooperation too.

No real answers, just learning as I go.and happy there are others out there

walking the same walk.

Take care

Josie

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of cjosephj

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:52 PM

Subject: Re: How do you say " No " to families at holidays?

As to how to handle schools, I absolutely LOVE what my daughter did to stop

the school from giving her children " treats " and special occasion pizza

party food, etc. First of all, she packed their lunches every day, including

beverage and water, and wonderful snacks and desserts that were the envy of

all the other children. They were firmly instructed to never share, but

bring back home anything they didn't finish, because she didn't know if

others might be allergic to something. The school had also been instructed

in writing that her children were on special diets for health reasons, and

were never to be given anything other than what she provided.

Then, after several incidents where a teacher gave a " treat " to one of her

children anyway, my daughter went to the principal and (very sweetly)

demanded to see a copy of the school's liability insurance policy, and

particularly the section that explicitly covers damages caused by food items

provided by the school against parents' wishes, because if the coverage was

insufficient for what was becoming an increasingly expensive threat, she

wanted to start now to go through the proper channels to have the school

increase their coverage.

It worked like magic! Not only did the " treats " stop, but the teachers

actually became protective of my grandchildren and made sure none of the

other children gave them anything in a misguided act of kindness or

" sharing. "

[Guest guest]

I have an eleven year old and am almost seventeen year old who both now make

pretty good choices and love much of what I make. I also have a toddler who I

keep away from junk in our home and has only had junk once or twice.

I have explained over the years the reality of HFCs and other fake food. I

don't control what they do at other peoples houses. They can have clear non

caffienates soda at parties(17 no restrictions now- no need anymore) and they

can have the junk at parties after veggies and protein as long as the immune

system is on the healthy side.

I have explained why we dont have those items in our home. I do occasionally

allow homemade sugar desserts made out of real ingredients for holidays.

The oldest one was junk food crazy for awhile but eats very well now.

Sent from my iPod

On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:04 PM, " Josie " <josie.nelson@...> wrote:

This is a great thread. These issues are so hard!

I was wondering if there is anyone out there with older kids who has

successfully navigated all of this and would be willing to chime in.

Mine are 6 and 9 and it strikes me that this subject gets increasingly

complex as the kids get older and we have less day to day control over

'everything' they do and they get more alert to how the rest of the world

eats. We want them to embrace our food choices not feel trapped by them.

But the reality is they are bombarded by SAD practices everywhere they go

and a lot of the time that stuff looks 'better' to them. My own hope and

goal is that they will (ultimately over time and in the long run) genuinely

WANT the better food we take such great pains to provide them with and not

just run screaming from my house in search of junk in other people's houses

(my 6 yr old son has a crooked smile and tells me - for effect - that his

favorite food is " Red Dye 40 " ).

Struggling with extended family members is stressful and I know many of us

also struggle with spouses/partners who are less committed to their health

journeys but it's as if there are no conflict free zones at all.

- Of course my kids bring lunch and don't eat the school lunch

stuff but it looks 'cool' and exciting and they beg to eat from the

cafeteria and regale me of stories about how everyone else has " lunch

dessert " every day and things with frosting and etc etc

- Sports teams. Ugh sports teams. You'd think that could be a

healthy place. But no, EVERY WEEK after hockey practice my son is bombarded

with non-food items.like blue Gatorade and GoGurt w/artificial colors and

pop tart looking things. It's almost impossible to deny it all (the way I

did when he was 3 or even 4) b/c it just builds resentment and part of what

we are trying to accomplish is the wisdom/knowledge that we feel differently

and act differently when we are fed well. Often I forbid the worst of it

and then give him the choice to 'trade' for something 'better' we keep at

home. The something 'better' isn't ever something I really want him to eat

but it's always an improvement on what is offered and he often (thank

goodness) goes for it

- SCHOOL. My son's first grade teacher does food rewards. Every

day. The table that is most quiet during sustained silent reading gets a

piece of candy. My son's table is quiet (which I would ordinarily think of

as a good thing). Yes I could forbid my son to eat it. And yes I can

approach the teacher about not using food rewards (or offer to buy

substitute candy that would be free of corn syrup and artificials) but this

is a beloved teacher that has been doing this kind of garbage for 20+ years

and is otherwise terrific and I am pretty sure he'll ignore me.

- Halloween, Christmas, birthday parties, play dates. All fraught

with bad food.

- Haircuts, dry cleaners, well meaning neighbors all offering junk.

You name it. It's offered..and the kids (at least mine) really do want it

all!

It's not that we can't and don't say no (we do; believe me we do). It's not

that we don't try to create a loving meaningful context for the way we (try)

to eat and live. It's not that they don't already know more about the

difference between cane sugar and maple syrup and high fructose corn syrup

or white flour and sprouted grains and etc than your average American adult

does. But there is a relentless pace of rotten offerings and it's

wearisome! Like inhabiting an alternative universe!!

Best of luck with the grandma. If she cried all the way home b/c you

refused a piece of cake for a one year old baby the issues run deeper than

the cake to be sure. The only advice I can offer - and I hope it doesn't

sound too gloomy as it is not meant to be is - relish the time with your

infants and toddlers when you still 'do' have control over most bites they

take and know that all that loving care will help fortify their immune

systems when they encounter the 'rest of the world'. And try to build a

relationship of trust and respect as they age so that, while they might

start begging for Halloween candy at some point in time, the seeds you plant

and the meals you prepare will hopefully take root over time and for the

long haul and for their long health. I do know a couple of elementary aged

kids who refuse the bad stuff in principle; but I can't say I know many!!!

Josie

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of aacunninham

Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:47 PM

Subject: Re: How do you say " No " to families at holidays?

Hi there,

Proud Mama of two small girls (3 years and 8 months) here. While my family

lives out of state, my in-laws live in Elk River and not only do we spend a

good deal of time there for holidays and get-togethers but Grandma does

quite a bit of babysitting. We have encountered a similar nutrition issue

(one which I find odd as my Mother in Law grew up on a farm herself and grew

up drinking raw milk and eating wholesome traditional food) as they eat a

lot of processed, cheap excuse my language CRAP. I tried to " pick my

battles " so to speak when my oldest began spending an occasional night there

around 2 years old, but the immediate change in her when she was brought

home was undeniable. She ALWAYS had a runny nose, was constipated or had

loose stools, and was a behavioral nightmare when she is usually pretty

mellow and easy-going kid. When I inquired what she was being fed I learned

to my dismay that she was being fed what her cousins at fed at home: Tyson

chicken nuggets, sugary cereal, cheaply salted processed pot roast, dead

frozen veggies, etc. and her little immune system just couldn't handle even

a couple of days of it without it taking a toll.

Here's what I did : I talked to my husband as it is HIS family and therefore

HE is the one who is responsible to deal with issues regarding in-laws (and

vice versa). We also decided to pack all of her staple foods (milk, yogurt,

veggies, meat, etc.) and he had to tell his Mother in a firm but respectful

manner that she needed to be fed a more wholesome diet while she was over

there or we couldn't do any more overnights. I could tell it hurt her but I

think as I am starting to share with her the importance of eating well she

is starting to come around. I print off flyers and also have recommended

some books to her (Omnivore's Dilemma, Real Food, etc.) which is helping. I

am not going to freak out over the occasional cookie or lollipop, but when

it comes to my child being made ill by horrible food it is my duty as a

parent to step in. She just isn't used to that food and I don't ever want

her to be.

So my advice to you is: bring as much of your own food as possible, maybe

lighten up on the cake thing if you can just the one time (unless you can't

and I completely understand), and have your husband explain in a respectful

way why you choose to eat the way you do, why it is important to your

family, and that if they can't respect that visits will be limited and they

will not be allowed to be unsupervised with your son. Good luck!

>

> My husband and I are kind of the odd ones out in our family. We eat along

the Weston A Price fondation and are very health conscious. When we visit my

husbands family we have always put our diet (Or should I say lifestyle) on

hold to eat their food. They live about 5 hours away so its only an

occasional thing. My husbands grandma is dying and she loves to cook. We

know how much it means to her when we eat it, but it is nowhere near

healthy. We do it to make her happy.

>

> The problem is, is that our son will be having his first birthday party up

at his great grandma's house this weekend. His aunt bought him a store

bought birthday cake and my husbands father called to ask if our son, Mason,

will be having any of the cake. I told him that he will not be. See, I'm

fine with my husband and I cheating on our lifestyle for a few days out of

the year, but I am not fine with our son eating the cake or having any of

his great grandma's food. I dont want it in his system, even if its an

occasional thing.

>

> The last time they saw our son was thanksgiving and he was four months

old. My husbands Aunt was joking about feeding him some green jello and we

just laughed it off. Later, they were sitting at the table and she stuck a

spoonfull in his mouth! I told her that Mason had not even started solids

yet and I did not want him having anything. She later told my husband that

she was very hurt. She made the comment that if we are going to eat their

food (I breastfeed) mason is still getting it too so it doesnt make a

difference. I'm scared that they will expect him to have some cake and eat

his great grandma's food. I don't have supplies to make him his own cake,

but I plan on packing him his own food and snacks for the trip. (I do plan

on making him his own birthday cake for his birthday with us, which is in a

few weeks)

>

> So my question is, when it comes to holidays what do you tell your family?

This has always been, and will continue to be a problem for us. We're fine

telling our other family " no " but my husbands grandma we dont want to upset.

What should we do in our situation? I am positive that they will be very

pushy and insist he eat some cake and other food.

>

[Guest guest]

Love the part about the kid who drinks the cream off the top!

> >

> > ----Great story re: the lunches and the school. I too pack lunches

> > for my kids each day. It's the only way! Can I ask though, how did

> > your grandchildren handle the whole treat thing (at school and >

elsewhere)?

>

> This is a family with 10 children, and each one is different. One of the

teens is meticulous and even chooses to do a lot of cooking for the whole

family. On the other hand there's one little guy who's been known to do 'behind

the door' deals with playmates and would never consider refusing any offer of

junk food. And everything in between. They always have a fridge full of fresh,

real milk. Another guy likes to sneak in and pour the cream off the top and

drink it straight when no one's looking, sometimes causing squabbles when the

rest of the bottle doesn't taste as good. (They live in a state where,

fortunately, they still have a source of real milk.)

>

> My daughter does an excellent job of keeping the cupboards and fridge

well-stocked with nothing but " good stuff, " so even when someone gets a whim to

snack or experiment in the kitchen, they can't go wrong. When kids have free

access to anything in the house, they will pretty much eat whatever is there.

I've seen the boys rush in after school with friends, make themselves almond

butter sandwiches and some fresh fruit, grab a quick glass of milk, and run out

to play. There's no incentive to eat elsewhere when good food is easy to come

by, and they're full. So with home and school covered, plus several of their

friends' families on the same page, mom doesn't too much worry about the rest.

>

> And another thing I have to mention, which I think is critical to this

lifestyle and I find extremely rare, is that nobody in this family overeats.

It's not something talked about or planned, but just seems to be that they are

all satisfied with very small meals and portions, I think probably because of

the high nutrient value they are getting. They are all a very healthy thin,

well-behaved, and intelligent, with delightful personalities. (And it's also

very healthy for the budget)

>

[Guest guest]

Love the part about the kid who drinks the cream off the top!

> >

> > ----Great story re: the lunches and the school. I too pack lunches

> > for my kids each day. It's the only way! Can I ask though, how did

> > your grandchildren handle the whole treat thing (at school and >

elsewhere)?

>

> This is a family with 10 children, and each one is different. One of the

teens is meticulous and even chooses to do a lot of cooking for the whole

family. On the other hand there's one little guy who's been known to do 'behind

the door' deals with playmates and would never consider refusing any offer of

junk food. And everything in between. They always have a fridge full of fresh,

real milk. Another guy likes to sneak in and pour the cream off the top and

drink it straight when no one's looking, sometimes causing squabbles when the

rest of the bottle doesn't taste as good. (They live in a state where,

fortunately, they still have a source of real milk.)

>

> My daughter does an excellent job of keeping the cupboards and fridge

well-stocked with nothing but " good stuff, " so even when someone gets a whim to

snack or experiment in the kitchen, they can't go wrong. When kids have free

access to anything in the house, they will pretty much eat whatever is there.

I've seen the boys rush in after school with friends, make themselves almond

butter sandwiches and some fresh fruit, grab a quick glass of milk, and run out

to play. There's no incentive to eat elsewhere when good food is easy to come

by, and they're full. So with home and school covered, plus several of their

friends' families on the same page, mom doesn't too much worry about the rest.

>

> And another thing I have to mention, which I think is critical to this

lifestyle and I find extremely rare, is that nobody in this family overeats.

It's not something talked about or planned, but just seems to be that they are

all satisfied with very small meals and portions, I think probably because of

the high nutrient value they are getting. They are all a very healthy thin,

well-behaved, and intelligent, with delightful personalities. (And it's also

very healthy for the budget)

>

[Guest guest]

This has been a great thread of conversation and it goes to prove that we ALL

have the less-than-ideal scenario when it comes to feeding our families and

extended families nourishing food around our holiday tables.

Soo....we've been talking and have come up with a solution to help remedy the

situation (or at least soften the blow ;-)

It's the great TFMN Thanksgiving! Who better to break bread with from the

abundance of the harvest than with those who value a true harvest?

Bring yourself, your family, your friends (or just yourself) AND your FAVORITE

Thanksgiving side dish (this means any wonderfully creative dish or

tried-and-true...don't feel obligated to bring Aunt Ginnie's french bean

casserole with FRENCH'S® crunchy onions (no, REALLY, you DON'T HAVE to bring

that!). My personal FAVORITE is a Sweet Potato Au Gratin where I look for any

and all excuses to make!

More details to come in a separate post, but here are the essential details to

get on your calendar NOW:

Saturday, Nov. 19th

2-5pm

Lauderdale City Hall

1891 Walnut Street

Lauderdale, MN 55113

Activities for the kids, how-tos for the adults, & contests for everyone!

Let's make OUR OWN Thanksgiving tradition.

(also...PLEASE, if you're new to the group, COME! And everyone else, too!)

Becca

[Guest guest]

This has been a great thread of conversation and it goes to prove that we ALL

have the less-than-ideal scenario when it comes to feeding our families and

extended families nourishing food around our holiday tables.

Soo....we've been talking and have come up with a solution to help remedy the

situation (or at least soften the blow ;-)

It's the great TFMN Thanksgiving! Who better to break bread with from the

abundance of the harvest than with those who value a true harvest?

Bring yourself, your family, your friends (or just yourself) AND your FAVORITE

Thanksgiving side dish (this means any wonderfully creative dish or

tried-and-true...don't feel obligated to bring Aunt Ginnie's french bean

casserole with FRENCH'S® crunchy onions (no, REALLY, you DON'T HAVE to bring

that!). My personal FAVORITE is a Sweet Potato Au Gratin where I look for any

and all excuses to make!

More details to come in a separate post, but here are the essential details to

get on your calendar NOW:

Saturday, Nov. 19th

2-5pm

Lauderdale City Hall

1891 Walnut Street

Lauderdale, MN 55113

Activities for the kids, how-tos for the adults, & contests for everyone!

Let's make OUR OWN Thanksgiving tradition.

(also...PLEASE, if you're new to the group, COME! And everyone else, too!)

Becca