Re:Satanism

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 6:25:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

Err... there's no such thing as a "Satanic bible." The idea in itselfis anti-Satanism. If you refer to the boom with the said name, that bookis written specifically to mock the Christian bible, because Christianprinciples and dogma are the root of so many evils in this world. Saidbook isn't something that is comparable to what the christian bible issupposed to be."Bad things happened around the barracks for a few days, including aparticularly nasty encounter I and a couple of my friends, we who spokeagainst the Satanists, had."Which might as well have been invoked by yourself, because you knew aboutsomeone trying to summon something. But it sure is possible, somespirits just love to have fun with people.

Now this is so typical. Self avowed demon worshippers wouldn't dare calla demon, but I did because I caught them just after they had done their ritual. I saw the ritual in the book that they had. I saw the "prayer" and invocation in it. I and my friends later saw the demon they summoned and it challenged each of us for interfering. Now, after that, you can't tell me that these people who worship Satan are nice people and that there is nothing to it. I've never seen an angel, but I have seen a demon face to face.

Yeah some people sure put up a nice show, but that's all there is to it."So, don't tell me they are harmless people."Yes, I tell you because it is true.

Harmless people indeed. No telling what they might have done had I not happened to be there.

When I was taking classes a while ago, one of the students was a Virginia State Trooper. The Troopers very often come across Satanic ritual sites where animals have been sacrificed and sometimes even people. There was a bunch of them in North Carolina about 10 years ago that the girls would pick up men at bars, bring them to the place in the country and the coven or whatever they call themselves would attack the person and sacrifice them. The trooper told me of a place he went into personally where there was a pentagram on the floor and chalice full of human blood in the middle of it and bodies buried out back. The people in the house were screaming on and on about Satan and all that stuff.

I've seen it a lot of times that you are very stubborn in your overlyChristian views, and disregard anyone else's experience and knowledgebased on this old and often mistranslated book called bible, which, tome and many others, is mostly supersticion. I find that very disturbingindeed, and sometimes I fear saying something because I know you'llcome and "preach" about this Christian view again, which I, sorry tosay, truly cannot bear anymore. It's exhasperating by now.

I feel much the same way about you and your views. There probably are some mistranslations in the Bible, but the message is still valid. It is an outward looking religoin that tells its followers to help others. Paganism and Satanism is inward looking and about nothing more than hedonism and selfishness, with Satanism adding the encouragement to be evil. I will also say you are being every bit as stubborn and judgemental about we Christians as you say we are being toward you. I haven't yet called you dumb for being pagan, but you have called me so at least twice. You insult the Bible, but I have not insulted your texts, at least not since you say you aren't a Satanist. You even call my faith superstition, well what do you consider your "faith" to be?

I'm not preaching Christianity. I'm telling my point of view on these matters because it was asked for. I've also not been insulting to anything but Satanism because in my experience it doesn't deserve to be treated with anything but condemnation.

Perhaps if you didn't want people to insult your beliefs then you should restrain from insulting the beliefs of others. Then again, perhaps Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, is too Christian of a principle for a pagan, even though it also appears in Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Shinto, etc.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:14:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

Ohhh, listen to the holy moly know it all.Sorry but that just did it. It's impossible to discuss with people whodisregard everything but their own little world.That's one address on my ignore now.lwaxy

Being offensive in yet another post. In previous post you heavily bashed Wicca, which I actually have to agree with, because it wasn't your "true" pagan faith. You're even more fanatical about your beliefs than any Christian I know is about theirs.

In a previous post you say that no Satanist or pagain would use magic to hurt someone else, but later in that same post you say that would do just that against an enemy. You say there is no black or white magic, but it is intent that counts. Well, if you are trying to hurt an enemy, that is a negative thing so that would make it black magic. Nice to contradict yourself in one single post.

I too fight against an enemy, though I wouldn't physically harm them unless they were in the act of trying to harm me or mine. But magic, what good is that? Even if it does affect them, what's the point? They won't know where it came from or who was doing it, unless you told them. If you told them, why not take action to their face? I would like for you to explain how attacking someone with magic is different from attacking them physically.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:33:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

I don't think it was a demon. I think it was a manifestation of your ownsubconcious. which is what most so-called demons and poltergeists are.And if it hasn't been and something really has really come because ofsome kids dabbling in things they don't understand, then it's a lesserspirit/demon that likely couldn't do harm at all.

That's a convenient excuse, that it was a manifestation of my own sub-conscious. Interesting then that the three of us all saw exactly the same thing, were asked exactly the same questions by it, at exactly the same time, even though we were all in different places at that time. No harm at all? Hardly. It damn well tried.

Interesting though that you admit that it may have been something, even if a lesser demon. So you know they do exist and can be summoned. Perhaps you have seen one? But then I think if you actually saw a real one like I have, you wouldn't be so keen on magic any longer.

Ah yeah, the hero Christian saviour... sorry but I don't think youshould have interfered. they'd have gotten their shock for dabblingwith what they don't understand and that would have been it.

Not interfere and let carry out their threats against my cousin? Stand by and let one of mine be killed? Not a chance. What surprise do you think they would gotten? Perhaps a real look at a minion of Satan? BTW, it had nothing to do with being Christian. I was just fortunate enough to be on hand when family was threatened.

WRONG again. Don't you ever get it? Satanists do not sacrifice likethat. The people who do that are... spelling it out slowly...wannabe.... Satanists.... trying... to... be ...cool. Or mentallydisturbed. Nothing to do with Satanism.

So I guess the trooper heard wrong then, those screaming about Satan and all that.

An archetypical, not absolute, system to navigate the spiritual andmaterial world. One that serves me best, as everyone has to find thesystem that serves them best.

That's exactly what Christianity is, an archetypical system that helps people navigate life. Christianity does not, however, condone the use of magic to harm others, and really does not encourage any kind of revenge. So by your definition, paganism is harmful to others.

I'm also Buddhist btw, and there is no "do onto others" principlethere.

I don't know what branch of Buddhism you practice, but the Do unto others idea is expressed in the faith, though the wording not exactly the same. If it isn't, then what is there is said faith to encourage people not to be mean to each other?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:40:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

You can invoke positive energy though to harm someone, as long as thebigger picture is something positive. Much like the "kill one person tosave many" principle.

That too is very convenient. Calling it positive to kill or harm so long as the mean justifies the end. I agree there are times it might be worth killing one person to save many, but it would still be murder to kill them in cold blood and thus negative. Even having killed Hitler prior to 1939 or even after would still have been murder, even if it did serve a greater good. That would not, however, make it any less murder or negative. It would still be an evil act committed toward a greater good.

The question then is would the use of evil to achieve a greater good taint that greater good by association, much like you say evil magic may taint the location it was practiced? Could it be that by murdering all the criminals in this area, whether by bullet, blade or spell, would taint the objective of ending crime and perhaps destroy the good intention somehow?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:40:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

You can invoke positive energy though to harm someone, as long as thebigger picture is something positive. Much like the "kill one person tosave many" principle.

That too is very convenient. Calling it positive to kill or harm so long as the mean justifies the end. I agree there are times it might be worth killing one person to save many, but it would still be murder to kill them in cold blood and thus negative. Even having killed Hitler prior to 1939 or even after would still have been murder, even if it did serve a greater good. That would not, however, make it any less murder or negative. It would still be an evil act committed toward a greater good.

The question then is would the use of evil to achieve a greater good taint that greater good by association, much like you say evil magic may taint the location it was practiced? Could it be that by murdering all the criminals in this area, whether by bullet, blade or spell, would taint the objective of ending crime and perhaps destroy the good intention somehow?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:49:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, kajira_2001@... writes:

-i am sure Jesus would be very sad indeed to see the evil done in His name. Kajira

I'm sure he would too. However, I am also sure that he has seen it and indeed even knew it was going to happen before he was nailed to the Cross. After all, he did know Judas would betray him, he knew the other would deny him three times as well. As an aspect of God, I'm sure he knew all of that and more.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 8:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

And no, they cannot be summoned unless you offer them something theywant/need. So if there was something, then I wpouldn't wonder it was abit annoyed that you didn't allow it to collect it's prize. Heck,that'd annoy me, too. Demons are only human, too... well, nom, notreally but in this regard, they are.

I don't know what its prize may have been, I'm glad to have gotten in its way. Whatever something like that could have wanted would have not have been good. This was no "physical manifestation" but was quite real and quite dangerous.

Wasn't the whole threads thing started AFTER you disturbed them?

No, that started long before I came into the picture. I don't know how they fixated on my cousin, but she had been suffering from those people for a while before I had my encounter with them. They may well have paid a price for what they did, but I wasn't willing to gamble that what they wanted was to kill my cousin or anyone else they caught in the house. Funny thing is, I don't even like that cousin, but they are blood and I would have defended them all the same.

By my definition, Christianity is harmful to others, due to it's nowadayabsolutism. and you come over absolutist to me. Maybe I've read youwrong, or maybe it's just that you have the same name as my overlyChristian and very obsessed late uncle, but you didn't seem to seeChristianity as an archetype.

Christianity is by definition is an absolutist religion, as are Judaism and Islam. Just because it believes in absolutes does not make it harmful. It is possible to become obsessed or to misunderstand the principles. I've known quite a few "Christians" who put me off the faith at one time or another. Usually this due to their not understanding the principles or, because of a fault in themselves, they use Christianity as a hammer against others. My father was like that and it took me a while and study into the true meaning of the faith to find my way back and realize that he was abusing the faith to dominate myself and my mother.

I may be wrong, but the "othercheek" principle is nowhere else used as a main part of the teachingssave in the Christian bible.

That is an idiom, sayings that are specific to a given language that don't translate directly. The original intent was not to be weak, but rather if someone struck you for your belief in God, then to turn the other cheek and let them strike that one too as a show of your faith. Meaning that you be willing to take a beating to stay true to the faith.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 8:10:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

And why would they need to know? Where is the point in that? What mattersis the result - them leaving me alone. This isn't some power trip forpeople to show others what they can do, it's a tool to serve a purpose.

This is my question. If they won't know it was you, how would they know who to leave alone?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 8:16:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

Funny dilemma, this. That you can do harm even when you mean to do good.

Here is an example from the recent documentary I saw on Rasputin:

That good example. My point simply was that if one is going to commit evil in the name of a greater good, it is still evil. Would killing Hitler have been a great good? There is no way of telling really. It is entirely possible that having killed him would have lead to Germany not rearming itself and Russian invading Western Europe, as it tried to do shortly after WWI, and succeeding. Given to horrors of the Stalin years and following, it is likely there would have been far more human misery and death than was seen under Hitler. At the very least, all of Europe would have been in the condition of Eastern Europe prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Even so, killing Hitler in cold blood still would have been murder, even if he was an evil man.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 8:23:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

No, no... it matters not what you CALL it. It matters what your trueintentions ARE. Intention makes all the difference. And if you justconvince yourself you do the right thing while originally knowing youdon't, then the original intention is still bad. The world does notallow for such self deciet.

I disagree here. Pure intent cannot turn evil into good. Like I said elsewhere, killing Hitler would still be murder, but it could be justified after a fashion, such as if it had ended WWII sooner. But this is boggy ground because we don't know the future. Killing Hitler may have ended war before the last few months when most of the death occurred. Then again, it may have rallied the people to fight even harder, especially if the allies were somehow involved in the attack.

I do agree that the world does not allow for such deciet. That is why there is the saying, "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions." The appeasement of Hitler was one example. Some leader thought that by giving in to him, that Hitler would calm down when it really had exactly the opposite effect.

Well, I completely disagree here. It's the end result that matters, howcan it be evil? The only way it could be evil would be if the reason whyit was done wasn't pure, as in "I'll kill XXX to save all thoseothers and then I'll be the hero having made a hard decision."

Here is where situation and ethics collide. A premeditated and planned assassination would be an evil act. On the other hand, if one was in shop and a crazed person came in with a gun and started shooting people, then killing the shooter would save lives and would not be an evil act. Why? Because of the context of the situation. One would not have gone out that day looking to kill someone, but they did have to kill a person to save others, not in the abstract of Hitler, but in the concrete of putting an end to killing taking place right before one's eyes.

This root of my case against magical attacks. Magic would be done by ritual or whatever behind the scenes, planned and carried out like the above mentioned assassination. One the other hand, a hand, a gun or a blade is immediately usable and does not require premeditation to use. True, the shooter came in with intent to kill, but that was a premeditated act on their part, an intention to do an evil thing. A person putting the shooter down did not pre-plan the shooting. Even the choice of carrying arms did not mean they would necessarily ever have to use them, nor indeed would they have to even in the case described. They could take cover or run, or they could fight.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/2006 8:49:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

They just will leave me alone and get out of my way. Usually they soonforget I even existed, as it usually seems. They don't need to knowanything was done. It just happens. Same thing as if you would pray forsomeone not to bother me anymore (same energetic principle actually) andthen they leave you alone. They won't know nor care that you haveprayed for it.Lwaxy

So, if they are going to leave you alone and forget about you anyway, why bother with the magic in the first place?

[Guest guest]

It is all nonsense, spells magic and hoopla. Also the church by saying it shows that the archtypical relation is one in your statements. The church is a building amoung many others whom have there own ways. Just as the individual to group, the belief psychopathiology differes form the group to the individual, however the central doctrinal theme is the shared similarity of course. Whats with the church bashing, this whole thing is nonsense and is just further proof the the social damages of A.F.F dispite demonic philosophies underlining the likely intended division in a time where the church is bashed all the time. I think its pure selfishness and self-centeredness to try to reduce this all into demons vs the Christians.. Most religions don't like Satanism, it is in fact some of the time the outsiders choice of a religion because of psychological problems. For instance a

christen family might have a son that is atheist or into Satanism in spite of the religious psychological overture in the family. It is rebellion in this sense and other then that I can claim to make a religion based upon a bad character n a book that is more metaphoric for evil, bad or sin and say it is lies about the father Satan figure. It's ridiculous and yes stupid and stupid can be in important issues such as autism. As far as Wicca’s I've known a few online and it is insane as well. It’s the mind’s look to the subconscious and is illogical. More important issues then a satanic boy who with his counter part he ran away form home at 16 to get married to a 34yr old while his parents looked online for him. There need to be more respectable leadership in autism politics that are sensitive like this. Likely a group of people as a council talking about the issues excluding religion and belief but the issues. Nothing but division,

claiming to be for freedom when they take away the rights of individuals who respectably differ, it is anti when unity for quality of requires unity but the group despite having a leadership into Satanism has divided the divided even! Come on... NONSENSE. Bla Bla Blahhhhh.. Charlie Borwn (Whah Whah Whah)Arania Lawakiro <csparania@...> wrote: "It seems you might have a little bias toward Satanism there since is bears a lot of simliarity to your own views." Uhm, no, it's not. It's completely the opposite in all the main parts. Just the rituals are very similar, and it has nothing to do with the nonsense the church claims. "Be that as it may, that doesn't make it any less anti-Christianity or less

pro-Satan. If they didn't relate it to Satan, why call it Satanism and not something else? Obivously there is some connection, even if it is only to irritate Christians." Sorry, but that is soooo dumb. You believe in something else, so you must be "anti-christian." Fact is, true Satanists couldn't care less about what everyone else believes. It just does not matter. All that matters is how they relate to the world themselves. If you refer to those fake wannabe-cool-people (and that's what those supposed Satanists are) then I can only guess they want to appear shocking. "I, on the other hand, have experienced some of the "crap the Church throws out" first hand. In high school, a bunch of them tried a demon summoning," Which clearly shows they are not true Satanists but rather some make up wannabe-cool people. Real Satianists would ever "summon" anything like a demon. That's just a ridiculus thought.

Unless someone has a very high standing and good knowledge, it would be foolish to try any such thing. "something found IN the Satanic bible" Err... there's no such thing as a "Satanic bible." The idea in itself is anti-Satanism. If you refer to the boom with the said name, that book is written specifically to mock the Christian bible, because Christian principles and dogma are the root of so many evils in this world. Said book isn't something that is comparable to what the christian bible is supposed to be. "Bad things happened around the barracks for a few days, including a particularly nasty encounter I and a couple of my friends, we who spoke against the Satanists, had." Which might as well have been invoked by yourself, because you knew about someone trying to summon something. But it sure is possible, some spirits just love to have fun with people. "A cousin of mine was threatened by a

group of Satanists." No, by a bunch of idiots trying to look strong and almighty. Satanists wouldn't do that. "They harassed her by phone and in public." Again, Satanists won't do that. It would be a waste of energy and time and thus go against their believes. I was up there one night when a carload of them came to the house. Four people in long, hooded robes got out of the car and approached the house. I went outside rifle in hand. They said something about Satan, so I locked and loaded and took aim. They ran back into the car and peeled out of there in a hurry. The harassment stopped after that. There was another incident, but I don't want to speak of it here." Yeah some people sure put up a nice show, but that's all there is to it. "So, don't tell me they are harmless people." Yes, I tell you because it is true. I've seen it a lot of times that you are very stubborn in your

overly Christian views, and disregard anyone else's experience and knowledge based on this old and often mistranslated book called bible, which, to me and many others, is mostly supersticion. I find that very disturbing indeed, and sometimes I fear saying something because I know you'll come and "preach" about this Christian view again, which I, sorry to say, truly cannot bear anymore. It's exhasperating by now. Lwaxy New

Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

" It seems you might have a little bias toward Satanism there since is

bears a lot of simliarity to your own views. "

Uhm, no, it's not. It's completely the opposite in all the main parts.

Just the rituals are very similar, and it has nothing to do with the

nonsense the church claims.

" Be that as it may, that doesn't make it any less anti-Christianity or

less pro-Satan. If they didn't relate it to Satan, why call it Satanism

and not something else? Obivously there is some connection, even if it

is only to irritate Christians. "

Sorry, but that is soooo dumb. You believe in something else, so you must

be " anti-christian. " Fact is, true Satanists couldn't care less about

what everyone else believes. It just does not matter. All that matters

is how they relate to the world themselves.

If you refer to those fake wannabe-cool-people (and that's what those

supposed Satanists are) then I can only guess they want to appear

shocking.

" I, on the other hand, have experienced some of the " crap the Church

throws out " first hand. In high school, a bunch of them tried a demon

summoning, "

Which clearly shows they are not true Satanists but rather some make up

wannabe-cool people. Real Satianists would ever " summon " anything like

a demon. That's just a ridiculus thought. Unless someone has a very

high standing and good knowledge, it would be foolish to try any such

thing.

" something found IN the Satanic bible "

Err... there's no such thing as a " Satanic bible. " The idea in itself

is anti-Satanism. If you refer to the boom with the said name, that book

is written specifically to mock the Christian bible, because Christian

principles and dogma are the root of so many evils in this world. Said

book isn't something that is comparable to what the christian bible is

supposed to be.

" Bad things happened around the barracks for a few days, including a

particularly nasty encounter I and a couple of my friends, we who spoke

against the Satanists, had. "

Which might as well have been invoked by yourself, because you knew about

someone trying to summon something. But it sure is possible, some

spirits just love to have fun with people.

" A cousin of mine was threatened by a group of Satanists. "

No, by a bunch of idiots trying to look strong and almighty. Satanists

wouldn't do that.

" They harassed her by phone and in public. "

Again, Satanists won't do that. It would be a waste of energy and time

and thus go against their believes.

I was up there one night when a carload of them came to the house. Four

people in long, hooded robes got out of the car and approached the

house. I went outside rifle in hand. They said something about Satan, so

I locked and loaded and took aim. They ran back into the car and peeled

out of there in a hurry. The harassment stopped after that. There was

another incident, but I don't want to speak of it here. "

Yeah some people sure put up a nice show, but that's all there is to it.

" So, don't tell me they are harmless people. "

Yes, I tell you because it is true.

I've seen it a lot of times that you are very stubborn in your overly

Christian views, and disregard anyone else's experience and knowledge

based on this old and often mistranslated book called bible, which, to

me and many others, is mostly supersticion. I find that very disturbing

indeed, and sometimes I fear saying something because I know you'll

come and " preach " about this Christian view again, which I, sorry to

say, truly cannot bear anymore. It's exhasperating by now.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" Satanism is divisional, is typically from what I read a teenager

belief "

Ohhh pleeease! Read about stuff from true sources, like the CoS itself,

before you tell stuff like this which is not true. Satanists do not even

accpept teenagers usually, as teenagers are not seen as mentally stable

enough to follow the teachings. On the contrary, true Satanism is almost

exclusively a grown up thing. And, yes, Satanism is a part of Paganism,

you believing that or not.

" They keep those in agreement there and get rid of the others. "

Which is completely unlike what true Satanists go by. Herd mentality is a

" sin " in Satanism. Satanism will often appear to spectrum people

because their basic doctrinine is close to what we go by anyway,

including avoiding stupidity, herd mentality and believes pressed on us

by others.

" RIGHT not WRONG, Satanism is a joke. "

Yeah, then so are your views/religion whatever! Because you seem to have

very little idea about what you are talking. Sorry, but I am getting

tired of people ridicilung my friends' religion.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Delusion..Thats fact..Arania Lawakiro <csparania@...> wrote: "It is all nonsense, spells magic and hoopla." Ohhh, listen to the holy moly know it all. Sorry but that just did it. It's impossible to discuss with people who disregard everything but their own little world. That's one address on my ignore now. lwaxy New

Songhttp://www.aspergershosting.com/audio/Onwah.wma

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

-i am sure Jesus would be very sad indeed to see the evil done in His

name. Kajira

-- In , " Arania Lawakiro "

<csparania@...> wrote:

>

>

> " i still feel it is bad to invoke negative energy to harm

> people. "

>

> Ah but energy is only negative if you make it to be negative. Unless

> it's been tainted before, let's say someone having done dark rituals

> in your living room before you moved in. Then it's possible if you

try

> to do a positive prayer there, you won't succeed because the power

> lines are messed up.

>

> You can invoke positive energy though to harm someone, as long as

the

> bigger picture is something positive. Much like the " kill one

person to

> save many " principle.

>

> I also agree btw, that probably lots of people even among the

Satanists

> do not understand their foundations. But this is an effect you can

see

> in every religion and spiritual school. The more popular something

gets,

> and the longer it is since it's creation, the more twisted ideas and

> teachings become.

>

> I think if we'd take Jesus from the past and plant him in this

world,

> he'd not be able to recognize the religion and dogmas the church has

> build around him. Same could likely be said of most religious

founders.

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

" It is all nonsense, spells magic and hoopla. "

Ohhh, listen to the holy moly know it all.

Sorry but that just did it. It's impossible to discuss with people who

disregard everything but their own little world.

That's one address on my ignore now.

lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" one such magazine had a subsribtion gift of a reversed pentagram

necklace - I couldn't believe it - surely they knew what that

symbolised? "

Ahh yeah... what do you think it symbolizes? I'm rather sure you are

thinking the wrong thing.

I don't support the sell out of any religious/spiritual symbol, and I

think it quite weird how they are sometimes used to attract a certain

group of buyers. but that's capitalism for you.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Funny dilemma, this. That you can do harm even when you mean to do good.

Here is an example from the recent documentary I saw on Rasputin:

While most of Moscow was enchanted by him (despite his filthy appearance and frightening, bruteish demeanor) a few saw that he was very bad news. A couple of these clearsighted men (monks, I think) vowed to kill him and rid the world of this abomination of a man. Like so many others who had tried, they did not quite suceed, but almost, rendering him too incapacitated to go anywhere. Which just happened to be extremely unfortunate since Rasputin was the ONLY person on the planet that the Tsar MIGHT have listened to if he had asked the Tsar to resist the temptation to get involved in the conflict that sparked WWI (I'm sure you know more details about this than I have precise recollection of right now) IF he had been able to attend the Tsar that night instead of laying half-dead in the middle of nowhere.

Moral of the story being that when the righteous monk assaulted Rasputin, he did not create good by it, but inadvertently helped create a much worse evil than Rasputin could ever have been.

Inger

Re: Re:Satanism

In a message dated 3/19/2006 7:40:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

You can invoke positive energy though to harm someone, as long as thebigger picture is something positive. Much like the "kill one person tosave many" principle.

That too is very convenient. Calling it positive to kill or harm so long as the mean justifies the end. I agree there are times it might be worth killing one person to save many, but it would still be murder to kill them in cold blood and thus negative. Even having killed Hitler prior to 1939 or even after would still have been murder, even if it did serve a greater good. That would not, however, make it any less murder or negative. It would still be an evil act committed toward a greater good.

The question then is would the use of evil to achieve a greater good taint that greater good by association, much like you say evil magic may taint the location it was practiced? Could it be that by murdering all the criminals in this area, whether by bullet, blade or spell, would taint the objective of ending crime and perhaps destroy the good intention somehow?

[Guest guest]

" Self avowed demon worshippers wouldn't dare calla demon, but I did

because I caught them just after they had done their ritual. "

I don't think it was a demon. I think it was a manifestation of your own

subconcious. which is what most so-called demons and poltergeists are.

And if it hasn't been and something really has really come because of

some kids dabbling in things they don't understand, then it's a lesser

spirit/demon that likely couldn't do harm at all.

" these people who worship Satan are nice people "

Satanists DON'T WORSHIP Satan.. or anything for that matter.

" Harmless people indeed. No telling what they might have done had I not

happened to be there. "

Ah yeah, the hero Christian saviour... sorry but I don't think you

should have interfered. they'd have gotten their shock for dabbling

with what they don't understand and that would have been it.

" The Troopers very often come across Satanic ritual sites where animals

have been sacrificed and sometimes even people. "

WRONG again. Don't you ever get it? Satanists do not sacrifice like

that. The people who do that are... spelling it out slowly...

wannabe.... Satanists.... trying... to... be ...cool. Or mentally

disturbed. Nothing to do with Satanism.

" The trooper told me of a place he went into personally where there was

a pentagram on the floor and chalice full of human blood "

I see. So if I make a cult using a Christian cross and sacrifice people,

then christians are bad people? Yes, so very logical.

" Paganism and Satanism is inward looking and about nothing more than

hedonism and selfishness "

Quack. Sorry, I know better, I am Pagan. It's oh so great if people tell

me what MY belief is about. Very funny, Scully.

" with Satanism adding the encouragement to be evil. "

Uh, no they don't. But it's pointless to tell you that I think.

" You even call my faith superstition, well what do you consider your

" faith " to be? "

An archetypical, not absolute, system to navigate the spiritual and

material world. One that serves me best, as everyone has to find the

system that serves them best.

" I haven't yet called you dumb for being pagan "

You might describe it more flowery, but I believe you have. I will call

ANY absolute, dogmatic system dumb because it is harmful.

" I've also not been insulting to anything but Satanism because in my

experience it doesn't deserve to be treated with anything but

condemnation. "

I feel the very same way about most branches of Christianity. I've

personally seen so much harm done by this religion I really wish it

would vanish from the face of this planet fast.

I'm also Buddhist btw, and there is no " do onto others " principle

there.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" i still feel it is bad to invoke negative energy to harm

people. "

Ah but energy is only negative if you make it to be negative. Unless

it's been tainted before, let's say someone having done dark rituals

in your living room before you moved in. Then it's possible if you try

to do a positive prayer there, you won't succeed because the power

lines are messed up.

You can invoke positive energy though to harm someone, as long as the

bigger picture is something positive. Much like the " kill one person to

save many " principle.

I also agree btw, that probably lots of people even among the Satanists

do not understand their foundations. But this is an effect you can see

in every religion and spiritual school. The more popular something gets,

and the longer it is since it's creation, the more twisted ideas and

teachings become.

I think if we'd take Jesus from the past and plant him in this world,

he'd not be able to recognize the religion and dogmas the church has

build around him. Same could likely be said of most religious founders.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Lwaxy - from your posts, it looks as if you believe that magic works

and that it forms a legitimate defense against people that one cannot

defend against in any other way. (If I've made a mistake about this,

please straighten me out.)

If so, may I ask whether you have worked (or whether you would

work, if you saw the need) magic to defend against " Cure Autism Now " ?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

[Guest guest]

" Interesting though that you admit that it may have been something, even

if a lesser demon. So you know they do exist and can be summoned.

Perhaps you have seen one? But then I think if you actually saw a real

one like I have, you wouldn't be so keen on magic any longer. "

Oh I've seen many more than you ever will. I've cleaned houses and

items from ghosts and " demons " and similar " entrities. " Yet in most

cases it really is a psychical manifestation.

And no, they cannot be summoned unless you offer them something they

want/need. So if there was something, then I wpouldn't wonder it was a

bit annoyed that you didn't allow it to collect it's prize. Heck,

that'd annoy me, too. Demons are only human, too... well, nom, not

really but in this regard, they are.

" Not interfere and let carry out their threats against my cousin? Stand

by and let one of mine be killed? Not a chance. What surprise do you

think they would gotten? Perhaps a real look at a minion of Satan? BTW,

it had nothing to do with being Christian. I was just fortunate enough

to be on hand when family was threatened. "

Wasn't the whole threads thing started AFTER you disturbed them?

I don't know what backlash they'd have gotten, but they sure would have

gotten something. And very likley, it would have been a lot worse than

anything that could have happened to you, because that is the nature of

such things. If you don't have an idea what you are really doing and

try to get " help " from something dark, you pay the price tenfold.

Maybe not immediately, but eventually you can't escape it.

" So I guess the trooper heard wrong then, those screaming about Satan

and all that. "

Oh, people can scream anything, doesn't make them Satanists or

Christians or whatever. Really, how many people call the name of god all

the time without being Christian? Well, at least here they do that, and

not only the usual " oh god " comment which has become quite everyday

language.

" That's exactly what Christianity is, an archetypical system that helps

people navigate life. Christianity does not, however, condone the use of

magic to harm others, and really does not encourage any kind of revenge.

So by your definition, paganism is harmful to others. "

By my definition, Christianity is harmful to others, due to it's nowaday

absolutism. and you come over absolutist to me. Maybe I've read you

wrong, or maybe it's just that you have the same name as my overly

Christian and very obsessed late uncle, but you didn't seem to see

Christianity as an archetype.

No true spiritual system condones initiating harm. The moment you condone

attacking first, you condone the downfall of spirituality, because no

one can stay spiritual while going arround initiating fights. They may

gain some insights and power, but those supposed powers will drive them

from any true spiritual path.

But usually self defense is allowed. I may be wrong, but the " other

cheek " principle is nowhere else used as a main part of the teachings

save in the Christian bible. In Buddhism, passivity towards attacks is

seen as one way to handle certain conflicts, but it's not like it's

seen as a core part.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" Being offensive in yet another post. In previous post you heavily

bashed Wicca, which I actually have to agree with, because it wasn't

your " true " pagan faith. You're even more fanatical about your

beliefs than any Christian I know is about theirs. "

ROTFL... I didn't " bash " anything, I was pointing out the untruth

behind the Wicca foundation. And uh, guess who was offensive first

there...

" In a previous post you say that no Satanist or pagain would use magic

to hurt someone else "

No, thatr's not what I said. I tried to explain to you that it would

make absolutely no sense to go around and harm someone without

definding, because it all comes back to you. Geez.

" if you are trying to hurt an enemy, that is a negative thing "

No, it's self defense, and that's never negative. I know cCristians go

by the whole " other cheek " stuff, which is sure one way to approach

things, but I just don't do that.

" so that would make it black magic "

No, because THERE IS NO... oh wait, I am talking into a wall here

anyway...

" Nice to contradict yourself in one single post. "

Yeah sure, interpret it like that if you want to. ) Tsk.

" unless they were in the act of trying to harm me or mine "

Exactly. So how is that different?

" But magic, what good is that? "

As good as any other way.

" They won't know where it came from or who was doing it "

And why would they need to know? Where is the point in that? What matters

is the result - them leaving me alone. This isn't some power trip for

people to show others what they can do, it's a tool to serve a purpose.

" If you told them, why not take action to their face? "

Uh... how am I supposed to " take it to their face " if they are out of

my reach, or laugh about what I say, or have their friends with them to

support them laugfhing at me? Just how can I do something about an

offensive neighbour when police does nothing about it? How am I supposed

to " take it to the face " of political people in my clubs who do

intrigues and stuff like only NTs can, while they can make it look like

whatever I say doesn't matter or even try to push me out, because they

are popular? That's so very unrealistic. I might be able to fight them

or something if I was NT and would see through it all. But even then,

it's lot of hassle when things can be solved more peacefully and faster

the magical way.

" I would like for you to explain how attacking someone with magic is

different from attacking them physically. "

I'd show you but I'd have to visit you and smack you to show you the

difference... really, i don't know what you are trying to get at here.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

" Calling it positive to kill or harm so long as the mean justifies the

end. "

No, no... it matters not what you CALL it. It matters what your true

intentions ARE. Intention makes all the difference. And if you just

convince yourself you do the right thing while originally knowing you

don't, then the original intention is still bad. The world does not

allow for such self deciet.

" but it would still be murder to kill them in cold blood and thus

negative "

Well, I completely disagree here. It's the end result that matters, how

can it be evil? The only way it could be evil would be if the reason why

it was done wasn't pure, as in " I'll kill XXX to save all those

others and then I'll be the hero having made a hard decision. "

" The question then is would the use of evil to achieve a greater good

taint that greater good by association, much like you say evil magic may

taint the location it was practiced? "

Not wanting to use the word evil here, but, yes, if the person who died

for others to be saved did not die willingly, you would very likely get

a negative energetic presence. Same as, to use a more harmless example

with getting rid of a bad boss, the atmosphere in the office would

likely carry something bad still, because the boss didn't go by

" natural events. "

In such cases it's likely that whoever caused it would later have to pay

even if the intention was good. I have seen similar backlashes, and

although the " payment " was not something bad, it usually meant that

the original reason for them to have caused something to happen got

irrelevant to them. Like, them being transfered to another office.

" Could it be that by murdering all the criminals in this area, whether

by bullet, blade or spell, would taint the objective of ending crime and

perhaps destroy the good intention somehow? "

Yes, if such is done constantly, I don't think people could stay pure.

The human mind is corruptable, and it is likely that a person with the

intention to only help the neighbourhood would see himself as a hero,

and think of themselves as the one solution to all problems etc. The

same can happen with " good " deeds, too, although it is not so obvious

then. " Helper syndrome " is just one example of that. Politics is

another.

Lwaxy