Re: Suggestions for autism-advocacy

[Guest guest]

I agree.

I was never out to bash anyone, only to declare that I do not wish to

cooperate with groups that I find immoral and/or impossible to cooperate

with. Who hate non-autistics with a vengeance - and also hate anyone who

doesn't hate them with a vengeance too.

I wish there was a coalition of BALANCED Aspie representatives who would

inform without attacking, ridiculing or using unethical methods to reach

their objective. If we want to be treated with respect, I say we have to

start behaving respectfully ourselves and not do to them what SOME of them

have done or want to do to us.

Inger

Suggestions for autism-advocacy

I've joined a pretty horrible -group called Autism-iron.

I expect to cause some turbulence in this group of parents

mostly commited to curing their children with various chelation

therapies. I remember that talked to CAN a while

back. It is these kind of actions we need, and not bashing

of other Aspie-groups for being to radical, to conservative,

having the wrong religious ideas, and you-mention-it.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Why do 'we' need to take action against the Autism-iron group? Is

there scientific or medical research that disproves what they are

claiming? Are they maliciously and purposely hurting others with

autism spectrum disorders? I would need to know the answers to those

questions before blindly following such an action as the one you are

proposing, Leif.

Raven

>

> I've joined a pretty horrible -group called Autism-iron.

> I expect to cause some turbulence in this group of parents

> mostly commited to curing their children with various chelation

> therapies. I remember that talked to CAN a while

> back. It is these kind of actions we need, and not bashing

> of other Aspie-groups for being to radical, to conservative,

> having the wrong religious ideas, and you-mention-it.

>

> Leif

>

[Guest guest]

Yes but in exactly the same spirit as this fine-sounding action, we

need actions against all Aspie-groups that violate personal fairness,

or that cause social anguish by their evil of counting personal

fairness a lower priority than group interests.

>

> I've joined a pretty horrible -group called Autism-iron.

> I expect to cause some turbulence in this group of parents

> mostly commited to curing their children with various chelation

> therapies. I remember that talked to CAN a while

> back. It is these kind of actions we need, and not bashing

> of other Aspie-groups for being to radical, to conservative,

> having the wrong religious ideas, and you-mention-it.

>

> Leif

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with what you are saying here.

I sometimes wonder if people are argueing for the same thing here.

What worries me the most is a person I know (non-autistic) who is

running a support group for aspies said in their opinion that people

on the spectrum could not work together (form their own support

group) - I really hope that is not true.

I believe those on the spectrum can work together; but just like non-

autistics we need to be careful with whom we affiliate with. We must

weigh up pro's and cons of being associated with different groups -

even if it is considered ideal to ignore some things and believe that

by ignoring them we are working to the greater good - that ideal can

very rapidly be destroyed by dint of association - i.e - being tarred

with the same brush.

>

> I agree.

>

> I was never out to bash anyone, only to declare that I do not wish

to

> cooperate with groups that I find immoral and/or impossible to

cooperate

> with. Who hate non-autistics with a vengeance - and also hate

anyone who

> doesn't hate them with a vengeance too.

>

> I wish there was a coalition of BALANCED Aspie representatives who

would

> inform without attacking, ridiculing or using unethical methods to

reach

> their objective. If we want to be treated with respect, I say we

have to

> start behaving respectfully ourselves and not do to them what SOME

of them

> have done or want to do to us.

>

> Inger

>

[Guest guest]

Raven:

> Why do 'we' need to take action against the Autism-iron group?

Because they are spreading propaganda that lack scientific backing.

> Is

> there scientific or medical research that disproves what they are

> claiming?

Which claims are you refering to? I think it is essential to separate

claims that iron can cause damage to autistics from autism is caused

by iron (in whatever form). I fully support the first claim but not the

second.

> Are they maliciously and purposely hurting others with

> autism spectrum disorders?

Yes, they are using unverified chelation methods that could be

hurtful to autistics if not done properly.

> I would need to know the answers to those

> questions before blindly following such an action as the one you are

> proposing, Leif.

That was only one suggestion. There are many curebee-groups with

different agendas. We need to explain some basics of autism to them

so they could do good research instead of pushing the cure-agenda.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Raven asked: " Are they maliciously and purposely hurting others with

autism spectrum disorders?

>

Leif replied: " Yes, they are using unverified chelation methods that

could be hurtful to autistics if not done properly.

>

Raven pointed out: Anything done improperly can lead to fatal

results. If the only reason for fighting the group you identified is

that chelation methods " could be hurtful " if " not done properly " then

we will also have to fight a similar fight against car manufacturers,

fast food outlets, school boards, dentists, doctors, pharmaceutical

companies, organic farmers, etc.

Just because something is done improperly " can " lead to " hurtful "

results is not sufficient reason to go against anyone or anything.

Raven

[Guest guest]

I don't understand... are they using chelation against excess iron?

Chelation is usually only used against heavy metals that won't come out any

other way (and is not unsafe if you take it orally).

Inger

Re: Re: Suggestions for autism-advocacy

Raven:

> Why do 'we' need to take action against the Autism-iron group?

Because they are spreading propaganda that lack scientific backing.

> Is

> there scientific or medical research that disproves what they are

> claiming?

Which claims are you refering to? I think it is essential to separate

claims that iron can cause damage to autistics from autism is caused

by iron (in whatever form). I fully support the first claim but not the

second.

> Are they maliciously and purposely hurting others with

> autism spectrum disorders?

Yes, they are using unverified chelation methods that could be

hurtful to autistics if not done properly.

> I would need to know the answers to those

> questions before blindly following such an action as the one you are

> proposing, Leif.

That was only one suggestion. There are many curebee-groups with

different agendas. We need to explain some basics of autism to them

so they could do good research instead of pushing the cure-agenda.

Leif

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

[Guest guest]

> Raven pointed out: Anything done improperly can lead to fatal

> results. If the only reason for fighting the group you identified is

> that chelation methods " could be hurtful " if " not done properly " then

> we will also have to fight a similar fight against car manufacturers,

> fast food outlets, school boards, dentists, doctors, pharmaceutical

> companies, organic farmers, etc.

>

> Just because something is done improperly " can " lead to " hurtful "

> results is not sufficient reason to go against anyone or anything.

My main objection isn't with chelation, but the refusal of many

to research the connection between Hemochromatosis and

autism. Without proper understanding of the causative factors

involved, unscientific practises will spread, and that will

not benefit autistics.

Leif

[Guest guest]

" My main objection isn't with chelation, but the

refusal of many to research the connection between Hemochromatosis and

autism. Without proper understanding of the causative factors

involved, unscientific practises will spread, and that will not

benefit autistics. "

I take it then that you know ALL the researchers who are conducting

studies in the Hemochromatosis and Autism arenas? You certainly have

an extensive circle of influence if you claim this.

Raven

[Guest guest]

Raven:

> I take it then that you know ALL the researchers who are conducting

> studies in the Hemochromatosis and Autism arenas? You certainly have

> an extensive circle of influence if you claim this.

I don't claim to, but a researcher at the evolutionary psychology list

made an enquire for me to a team he knew. Their answers seemed

to indicate that no association studies between autism and Hemochromatosis

had been done. What had been done was a large study that found a

1/3 of of 3000 autistics had elevated iron levels. It would be simple

logic to then research the connection to Hemochromatosis, if this

idea wasn't totally politically incorrect.

Besides, there is Medline for these kind of things. If a study had been

done, it would pop-up in Medline.

Leif

[Guest guest]

It is worrying and concerning what a lot of autistic children are

going through. There are many parents out there desperate for a cure

and many that will take advantage of that - many with wacko ideas,

some of which can and do cause damage.

If it could be proven that autism was genetic - and I can certainly

see a genetic link in many of the cases I know - then would this stop

all the people trying to cure it? Or would they then turn onto how to

erradicate those genes - which I think won't be possible - many genes

seem to go together - erradicate one (or is it a group?) and you lose

something else.

Just as a theory many with autism often are very intelligent and yet

there is the downside of problems in other areas, such as socialising

etc. Also think about creative people often suffer from depression

(not all, but quite a significant number) - so if one does away with

depression - does one also do away with great artists etc? I have

heard it said that some anti-depressants cause some to become less

creative - wonder if there is a connection here?

>

> > Raven pointed out: Anything done improperly can lead to fatal

> > results. If the only reason for fighting the group you

identified is

> > that chelation methods " could be hurtful " if " not done properly "

then

> > we will also have to fight a similar fight against car

manufacturers,

> > fast food outlets, school boards, dentists, doctors,

pharmaceutical

> > companies, organic farmers, etc.

> >

> > Just because something is done improperly " can " lead to " hurtful "

> > results is not sufficient reason to go against anyone or anything.

>

> My main objection isn't with chelation, but the refusal of many

> to research the connection between Hemochromatosis and

> autism. Without proper understanding of the causative factors

> involved, unscientific practises will spread, and that will

> not benefit autistics.

>

> Leif

>

[Guest guest]

I would like for there to be more known about chelation and autism. I

am someone with heavy metal poisoning and an error in a gene for

detoxification. Should the metals come out or not? They can do damage

in, though the body tries to store them in innocuous places like fat,

they do displace minerals in bone and tissue and lodge in the brain.

They can do damage coming out and may resettle anyway. They were

making me sick, giving me candida for one thing and I was suffering

with severe mineral and nutrient deficiencies. I may not have known

about them because metals don't show up on tests unless your body is

releasing them or they are circulating through your body. In storage

you will not know. After I lost my child in the womb which may have

been because of the metals or partially because of them, they began

coming out on their own and I had to chelate to get them out as best

as possible. It will be awhile before they are all out (if ever) and

I go through periodic detoxes as my body releases them, rests, and

rereleases (on it's own). So will what happened me happen later to a

child who now has heavy metal poisoning? Is it better to get them out

as a child? I would like to know if these stories are true about

their children getting better after chelation.

> >

> > I've joined a pretty horrible -group called Autism-iron.

> > I expect to cause some turbulence in this group of parents

> > mostly commited to curing their children with various chelation

> > therapies. I remember that talked to CAN a while

> > back. It is these kind of actions we need, and not bashing

> > of other Aspie-groups for being to radical, to conservative,

> > having the wrong religious ideas, and you-mention-it.

> >

> > Leif

> >

>

[Guest guest]

About 10 years ago, I was engulfed in mercury research, do to my dad's

falsely diagnosed Multiple Sclerosis (was mercury poisoning). I don't have

all the facts at my fingertips, but I do still possess thoughts that are

based on years of research and based on personal experience (I did chelation

myself).

> Should the metals come out or not?

In general, it's probably best to try to gently get rid of them. I still

think I may have some in me, even after doing major detox, but since my

health is much improved, I stopped doing detox because risk/benefit ratio no

longer made sense.

> After I lost my child in the womb which may have

> been because of the metals or partially because of them

I am sorry for loss. It's something, as a man, I am sure I would never truly

know how that feels. I hesitate to share this, but it's an interesting

tidbit of info that I read.... Having a baby is the " best " way to chelate.

(they weren't suggesting this as a method, but rather, acknowledge that the

fetus can pull out toxins)

> Is it better to get them out as a child?

> I would like to know if these stories are true about

> their children getting better after chelation.

I personally think it's best to get them out as a child, due to the

potential interference with brain development. Of course, chelation is

nothing to fool around with. I attended a Weston A Price Conference last

fall and talked to a guy who's health was destroyed by mercury. He was

around 50 years old and said he was lying in bed in the fetal position for

months. He said that the biggest thing that helped him recover was clay

baths. They pull out the mercury (and other toxins) through the skin.

Here's the link for the clay:

http://www.magneticclay.com/

I went to another conference in the fall and listened to a lady (

DeFelice) speak about enzymes and autism. She wrote a book about her

experience. Her boy went from low-functioning to high-functioning due to

enzymes. I asked her about chelation and she told me a story about an

autistic child who had high levels of mercury. The parents wanted to do

chelation, but they wanted to heal the kids gut and build up his nutrients,

prior to starting chelation. They spent a year doing enzyme therapy and

nutrition therapy. The kid's health improved dramatically and, prior to

starting chelation, they tested his mercury levels to get a baseline. The

mercury had dropped significantly, so they ended up not doing chelation.

said that part of the villi in the intestines produces a natural

chelator. When the villi is damaged, it can no longer produce the natural

chelator. When gut is healthy, and the villi regenerated, the natural

chelator is produced.

's site:

http://www.enzymestuff.com/

Hope this info helps!

Dan

http://www.HealthyPages.com/

> Re: Suggestions for autism-advocacy

>

>

> I would like for there to be more known about chelation and

> autism. I

> am someone with heavy metal poisoning and an error in a gene for

> detoxification. Should the metals come out or not? They can

> do damage

> in, though the body tries to store them in innocuous places

> like fat,

> they do displace minerals in bone and tissue and lodge in the brain.

> They can do damage coming out and may resettle anyway. They were

> making me sick, giving me candida for one thing and I was suffering

> with severe mineral and nutrient deficiencies. I may not have known

> about them because metals don't show up on tests unless your body is

> releasing them or they are circulating through your body. In storage

> you will not know. After I lost my child in the womb which may have

> been because of the metals or partially because of them, they began

> coming out on their own and I had to chelate to get them out as best

> as possible. It will be awhile before they are all out (if ever) and

> I go through periodic detoxes as my body releases them, rests, and

> rereleases (on it's own). So will what happened me happen later to a

> child who now has heavy metal poisoning? Is it better to

> get them out

> as a child? I would like to know if these stories are true about

> their children getting better after chelation.

>