Re: OCD and Elementary School - HELP!!

[Guest guest]

Ginger,

Does he have an official diagnosis? Does he have a psychiatrist? IS he

on medication? He should qualify for a 504 or an IEP, as having an

emotional disturbance/behavior problem (I would think). My son is also

very bright...and I think the teachers think he is choosing to be this

way, but I know for a fact, my son isn't " choosing " his obsessiveness,

and having meltdowns, etc.

It is so hard to deal with people who don't know are kids as well as

we do, but you must stand up for him!!

My son just turned 10, and it's been rough, but I know him, and I see

what he's going through, and I just try to help him get through day by

day.

I wish you good luck!!!

Rita

-- In , " Ginger (Hodges) Armstrong "

<justgin67@...> wrote:

>

> My son is almost 9 and was diagnosed when he was in Kindergarten. His

> elementary school has a new assistant principal who is in charge of

> overseeing all special needs children's files this year. She has

> insisted that he should not be served in any way because he is in the

> Gifted Program and makes A's and B's. We were told when he was

> diagnosed that he was ineligible for a 504 plan. We've been served

> through a " student support team " with modifications that have helped

> until now, but they are now saying that he no longer qualifies because

> his grades are not low and therefore they don't see that he has any

> " significant level of impairment " . They don't see him spend 4-6 hours

> on homework each night, unable to move on if it's not perfect or

> " right " , but unable to sleep if he doesn't finish everything. They

> don't seem to think it's a problem for him to not finish anything at

> school because he's counting certain letters or avoiding certain

> words. He brings everything home to finish, adding to the endless

> nights of wading through hours and hours of repetitive work that only

> frustrates him more.

>

> We have a meeting on Friday, and though as his mom, it all makes

> perfect sense to me that he needs the official documentation to make

> sure we don't have to do this every time we get a new teacher or new

> administrator, how do we get them to see that good grades and being

> gifted don't mean that he doesn't a have " significant level of

> impairment " ?? I am at my wit's end.......when adults feel that 6

> hours of homework a night for a 3rd grader is reasonable, I don't even

> know where to start.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

> ~ginger

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, he has an official diagnosis by a psychiatrist on file at the

school. After they " lost " one copy, I took in another. The new Asst.

Principal looked at it and said she wasn't sure it would be " enough " .

After that, without ever meeting or observing my son, she called the

school system coordinator for 504 students and explained that she

didn't think qualified. Out of the blue, I get a call from the

coordinator, explaining to me why my son isn't in need of

modifications. All of this is from people who have NEVER interacted

with my son, never made any attempt to understand his

exceptionalities, or even asked about what sort of symptoms have

affected him in school up to this point.

They still insist that since he is making decent grades, he doesn't

qualify. Basically, I need to know if they are right and I should

just give in until he has another meltdown and ends up failing, or if

there is solid backup info I can take with me to prove them wrong.

~ginger

>

> Ginger,

>

>

> Does he have an official diagnosis? Does he have a psychiatrist? IS he

> on medication? He should qualify for a 504 or an IEP, as having an

> emotional disturbance/behavior problem (I would think). My son is also

> very bright...and I think the teachers think he is choosing to be this

> way, but I know for a fact, my son isn't " choosing " his obsessiveness,

> and having meltdowns, etc.

> It is so hard to deal with people who don't know are kids as well as

> we do, but you must stand up for him!!

> My son just turned 10, and it's been rough, but I know him, and I see

> what he's going through, and I just try to help him get through day by

> day.

> I wish you good luck!!!

>

> Rita

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ginger, only have a moment now. We went through similar in middle

school. They can't deny his eligibility, even for an IEP. My son

had a 504 Plan. The school *has* to take into consideration all that

extra time and effort he's putting into getting his work done; he's

putting in more than the average/typical student. He may be passing

but he wouldn't be if it wasn't for all the extra help/effort/time.

I'll try to write more later. I had an " advocacy memo " link on this

topic but the website it linked to has been redesigned. I'll try to

find it and pass it on to you. Fit this situation perfectly!

single mom, 3 sons

, 17, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers(mild) and was

in " gifted " classes

>

> My son is almost 9 and was diagnosed when he was in Kindergarten.

His

> elementary school has a new assistant principal who is in charge of

> overseeing all special needs children's files this year. She has

> insisted that he should not be served in any way because he is in

the

[Guest guest]

Ginger -

Where's the Principal in all this mess? Go directly to the Principal. If

they only verbally regurgitate the fact that " the Asst. Principal is

responsible for Special Ed " , tell them that's the problem... the Asst.

Principal isn't

BEING responsible.... so apparently you need to escalate your situation. It

doesn't matter who is responsible for what - the buck stops with the

Principal at the school level.

Was the issue with time spent on homework used to determine your son's needs

the first time around? If so, throw that up at them again - nothing has

changed there, etc.

Gees -- I'll be hoping the best for you.... I hate dealing with school

administration - for any reason at all.

LT

[Guest guest]

Judy,

How did you get her on the 504 in the first place? That's what we

are battling here.........they don't think he even needs the 504

plan.

Thanks!

ginger

>

> Ginger,

> I'm going through this with my daughter right now also. She has a

504 plan, and gets all A's and B's with the exception of her possibly

getting a C in reading this marking period.(Not sure yet,The progress

report came out, and so far she only has a C.)

> The teacher is not concerned because there are 3 more weeks till

the report card comes out and she says she can bring it up to at

least a B.

> I tried to explain to the teacher that she is capable of getting

all A's. She has a high average IQ. Well, the teacher told me I

should be happy with her getting all C's because a C is average.

> I was so angry!!!!! If my daughter is taught correctly, and they

used the strategies I have provided for her in reading she would get

the A. They just don't do it. I'm pretty much " stuck " also. My

daughter has a difficult time because she counts syllables etc, while

trying to read. there are ways to minimize this and the teacher

doesn't apply the strategies in the class.

> I guess it's time for another meeting if her grade doesn't go up

on the report card. I do believe the school has to teach your child

the " way they need to be taught "

> FAPE -Free and appropriate education

> hugs

> Judy

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ecause there is potential for her education being affected (due to

hospitalization) and if she suufers distress in school because she is

anxious (and has some anxious behavior), you should be able to

qualify for classification and get services. For the most part, you

need a classification to get services and without classification, you

need a 504 to get accommodations and modifications. The more you

have in writing, the more strength your arguments have concerning

school matters. I have been and am going through all of this and am

learning so much. There is a group website - Law on

spec ed, and IEP groups you can visit and also like slaw, LD

online, Scwabb Learning, ect..where you can read and get advice. If

unsure about the accommodations or modifications (CAMS) that you

need, you can do an internet search on IEP goal bank and get to an

absolutely wonderful wealth of info. There is a book I bought... The

Complete IEP Guide. I also brought my therapist to the IEP meeting.

I still deal with the implementation of the IEP and monitoring for

compliance, but I got no argument about what I wanted for my son in

the way of CAMS and services, and I didn't need a lawyer.

Good Luck

Bonnie

> >

> > Ginger,

> > I'm going through this with my daughter right now also. She has a

> 504 plan, and gets all A's and B's with the exception of her

possibly

> getting a C in reading this marking period.(Not sure yet,The

progress

> report came out, and so far she only has a C.)

> > The teacher is not concerned because there are 3 more weeks till

> the report card comes out and she says she can bring it up to at

> least a B.

> > I tried to explain to the teacher that she is capable of getting

> all A's. She has a high average IQ. Well, the teacher told me I

> should be happy with her getting all C's because a C is average.

> > I was so angry!!!!! If my daughter is taught correctly, and they

> used the strategies I have provided for her in reading she would

get

> the A. They just don't do it. I'm pretty much " stuck " also. My

> daughter has a difficult time because she counts syllables etc,

while

> trying to read. there are ways to minimize this and the teacher

> doesn't apply the strategies in the class.

> > I guess it's time for another meeting if her grade doesn't go up

> on the report card. I do believe the school has to teach your child

> the " way they need to be taught "

> > FAPE -Free and appropriate education

> > hugs

> > Judy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You can be gifted and learning disabled at the same time.

Psychological disorders and Tourettes, ADD, ect are all examples of

things that can enable you to be classified as learning impaired.

Learning impaired is not just a function of IQ or work samples.

My son also gets good grades despite his anxiety - he can answer

questions with tears in his eyes. His IQ is greater than his

performance. We have been told that if he gets what he needs, he can

be anything he wants to be, but if he doesn't, the results can be

devastating. His anxiety prevents him from getting the most from his

education - from reaching his potential. My most minimal goal is for

him to someday be able to live without me and have some degree of

happiness or fulfillment - our goals (for independence, ect..) factor

into and drive the objectives of the IEP.

Perhaps you should request evaluation by the child study team and

tell them it is a matter of time for his struggles to carry over to

school hours and you don't want to see him fail before he has any

accommodations. Sometimes, it can be better to have an IEP in terms

of enforcing what school officials agree to. If your son has any

neurological symptoms (sensory issues, tics, impulsiveness, ect...),

ask for a neurodevelopmental eval. If he also comorbid disorders, he

can get more services and accommodations.

Good luck,

Bonnie

>

> My son is almost 9 and was diagnosed when he was in Kindergarten.

His

> elementary school has a new assistant principal who is in charge of

> overseeing all special needs children's files this year. She has

> insisted that he should not be served in any way because he is in

the

> Gifted Program and makes A's and B's. We were told when he was

> diagnosed that he was ineligible for a 504 plan. We've been served

> through a " student support team " with modifications that have helped

> until now, but they are now saying that he no longer qualifies

because

> his grades are not low and therefore they don't see that he has any

> " significant level of impairment " . They don't see him spend 4-6

hours

> on homework each night, unable to move on if it's not perfect or

> " right " , but unable to sleep if he doesn't finish everything. They

> don't seem to think it's a problem for him to not finish anything at

> school because he's counting certain letters or avoiding certain

> words. He brings everything home to finish, adding to the endless

> nights of wading through hours and hours of repetitive work that

only

> frustrates him more.

>

> We have a meeting on Friday, and though as his mom, it all makes

> perfect sense to me that he needs the official documentation to make

> sure we don't have to do this every time we get a new teacher or new

> administrator, how do we get them to see that good grades and being

> gifted don't mean that he doesn't a have " significant level of

> impairment " ?? I am at my wit's end.......when adults feel that 6

> hours of homework a night for a 3rd grader is reasonable, I don't

even

> know where to start.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

> ~ginger

>

[Guest guest]

Ginger,

As I said earlier, I had this argument with middle school. I can't

find that article I wanted, but maybe something in the following

will help; I haven't read it all:

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/elig.sld.osep.felton.htm

The school HAS to take into consideration all the extra time and

effort going into his work/education outside of school. Plus any of

the current accommodations/modifications he is utilizing.

He should qualify easily for a 504 Plan, and could actually qualify

for an IEP. We were fine with a 504 Plan. His OCD is a chronic

mental illness, a disability, he needs accommodations/mods to help

him in school, with schoolwork/learning, so he should qualify for a

504 Plan.

Call the school district/system and ask the 504 Coordinator or the

Special Ed coordinator. Or if need to, call your state about it.

Don't sign anything you don't agree with. You might want to type up

something to hand out at the meeting, a letter to them, stating all

your concerns, your son's issues, diagnoses, effort/time at home and

that you want to request a 504 Plan.... Date and sign it, hand it

out at the meeting, read it aloud to them or wait while they read

it. If this doesn't get a Plan, then call the school system, talk

to them; then state if need to.

What happens a lot of times, is the school system directors don't

know what the school is doing or telling parents, etc.

Gotta go! Good luck and let us know how things turn out!

>

> My son is almost 9 and was diagnosed when he was in Kindergarten.

His

> elementary school has a new assistant principal who is in charge of

> overseeing all special needs children's files this year. She has

> insisted that he should not be served in any way because he is in

the

> Gifted Program and makes A's and B's. We were told when he was

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chris. Unfortunately, the system's 504 coordinator is one of

the people saying he doesn't qualify. She keeps going back to that

his grades are A's and B's and so he's not " significantly affected "

by his disability. She said that as a parent, she understands my

frustrations, but as a person responsible for following the rules,

she can't bend them for him. I don't think it's bending them.

That's where our differences start.

I'm building my notebook of OCD resources, etc. and we'll see what

happens......I really don't want to have to call our lawyer, but

unfortunately it seems that we may end up there. (

Thanks again!

~ginger

> >

> > My son is almost 9 and was diagnosed when he was in

Kindergarten.

> His

> > elementary school has a new assistant principal who is in charge

of

> > overseeing all special needs children's files this year. She has

> > insisted that he should not be served in any way because he is

in

> the

> > Gifted Program and makes A's and B's. We were told when he was

>

[Guest guest]

Ginger,

You mentioned your son in gifted. Intellectual giftedness is

considered a disability and should also be accommodated using an an

IEP. An intellectually gifted student should not be spending several

hours at night working on routine homework in third grade - this is

evidence that he is significantly affected by his OCD and needs

accommodations. The child is supposed to be accommodated to work to

his/her potential - not just the potential some administrators

believe is " good enough. " It isn't the grades; it is what he is

having to do to get those grades when his intellect would indicate

this shouldn't be necessary.

You do have the right to have your child evaluated and then to appeal

if you don't agree with the outcome of the evaluation. It sounds as

if you are only getting verbal notification without a full evaluation

at this point. They need to evaluate, put their decision in writing,

and give you the opportunity to appeal.

I have a son who is intellectually gifted, OCD, and ADHD-IT. We were

also running into a wall because his grades were good (but not up to

his potentional and not without a lot of frustration on his part -

losing things, forgetting things, etc.). We had our son come into

the M-team meeting to explain where he was having difficulty (he was

in 7th grade at the time though). He, like your son, was getting A's

and B's, but I knew his ADHD-IT was interfering with his ability to

perform to his potential (thankfully the OCD isn't a problem for him

in this area for now). He was beginning to hate school because he

was constantly forgetting things, losing things, etc., and this was

reflected in his grades - he knew the stuff, but just couldn't get it

all pulled together. I kept emphasizing his giftedness was masking

his other disability, and that he did need accommodations for the

ADHD-IT, which in effect would accommodate his giftedness too.

Before our son came into the meeting to explain exactly what his

problems and feelings were, the administration kept giving us

the " well he has good grades though " line. I felt like we were

fighting a losing battle. However, once the school psychologist and

others actually met my son and heard his pain, they all fell in line

and gave us everything we asked for in the IEP. The documentation

for his disabilities was in the records (letter from psychologist,

letter from psychiatric nurse practitioner and verification from her

supervising M.D., the IQ and aptitude testing performed by the school

system identifying him as intellectually gifted, etc.), but they

couldn't accept that he needed accommodations because, after all, his

grades were A's and B's. But once they heard him talk about his

struggles (in tears no less), they changed their minds without a

fight. I would have appealed it if they had not accommodated; I

think they knew that too. Keep searching and persuading. Those

grades are not the only thing that should be considered in his

evaluation.

>

> Thanks Chris. Unfortunately, the system's 504 coordinator is one

of

> the people saying he doesn't qualify. She keeps going back to that

> his grades are A's and B's and so he's not " significantly affected "

> by his disability. She said that as a parent, she understands my

> frustrations, but as a person responsible for following the rules,

> she can't bend them for him. I don't think it's bending them.

> That's where our differences start.

>

> I'm building my notebook of OCD resources, etc. and we'll see what

> happens......I really don't want to have to call our lawyer, but

> unfortunately it seems that we may end up there. (

>

> Thanks again!

> ~ginger

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both my 14.5 and 11.5 y.o. girls are in the gifted program, and both have

OCD. The 14.5 year old is also on a 504 plan. I found that her therapist and

psychiatrist were a big help here. They wrote letters saying that she needed

special accommodations, including the possibility of intermittent

independent study availability. was making A's and B's, but she was also

flipping out in class, and had been hospitalized 3 times by the time we

established

the 504. Our 504 does not provide her any special services, but rather, we

seek accommodations for her. For example, she can leave class and go to the

counseling office if she gets over stressed; she can re-take a test if she

did poorly due to obsessions (we've never actually used this). One that has

been very helpful is doing enough homework to show mastery of the subject....

so when she has a bad 2 weeks due to a med change or such, and is out of

school, that she won't have to make up all two weeks worth of work.... just a

portion of it to show she understands the work. Since she is already in

therapy,

we didn't need services, but the accommodations have been helpful. There

are a bunch of others, too, but I can't think of them all. Suzanne in CA

[Guest guest]

Well if the system's coordinator says " no " then I'd call your state

office. And while speaking to them, talk to the special ed director

also about his IEP eligibility due to OCD, usually qualifies under

OHI.

Before calling a lawyer, I'd then try the OCR which oversees the 504

Plan (that's Office of Civil Rights).

I called them about (now age 17) once back in...8th grade I

think. I felt the school was " setting him up " - so to speak - for

being harassed the way they were following his 504 Plan for one

accommodation. Anyway, the most trouble I had was just finding the

right number to call them, LOL, kept getting another number to call.

But the man I ended up talking to was easy to talk to and --- get

this: he had OCD! Fate, huh? Some good info for use with the school:

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html

For help with IEP eligibility, you might call your state rep:

http://www.ed.gov/policy/speced/guid/idea/monitor/state-contact-

list.html

I did have a portion of that letter/memo saved on my computer (the

one that the link isn't good any more):

" ........................A multidisciplinary team may find a child

has a specific learning disability if " the child does not achieve

commensurate with his or her age and ability levels in one or more of

the areas listed in paragraph (a) (2) of this section, when provided

with learning experiences appropriate for the child's age and ability

levels ... " 34 CFR §300.541 (a) (1). The Department of Education, in

its letter to LDA of North Carolina, wrote that it is " generally "

appropriate for the multidisciplinary team to include in its written

report (to determine eligibility) information regarding " outside or

extra " instructional help or support which " may indicate the child's

current educational achievements reflects the service augmentation,

not what the child's achievement would be without such help. " Such

information should be considered by the team in deciding if the child

has " a severe discrepancy between achievement and ability that is not

correctable without special education and related services. " If, for

example, a student with an IQ of 125 and significantly lower

achievement scores maintains passing or even exemplary grades, the

team should consider whether or not the student achieves only because

of special assistance or support. If the student receives no special

help, the multidisciplinary team might conclude that student would

not need special education. If, on the other hand, the student has

tutoring several times a week, works for three to five hours each

night on homework with parental assistance, and must have extra time

to complete tests in order to pass or maintain a certain grade level,

that student might be considered to have a " specific learning

disability. " His/her grades may reflect all the assistance the

student is getting rather than the student's actual achievement

level. "

This is 's last year of school (12th grade) so now I'll have a

battle with him about his letting the college know at the start about

his " disabilities " because he doesn't want to tell, sigh!

>

> Thanks Chris. Unfortunately, the system's 504 coordinator is one

of

> the people saying he doesn't qualify. She keeps going back to that

> his grades are A's and B's and so he's not " significantly affected "

> by his disability. She said that as a parent, she understands my

> frustrations, but as a person responsible for following the rules,

[Guest guest]

Ginger (and all who may be able to help me),

I spent 2 hours at my daughters preschool last friday (3 year olds)

and there was a girl who was wearing bare feet and sandals (50

degrees outside up here in wisconsin) because she 'has a thing about

socks' - as her nanny told me because she simply won't attend

preschool unless her nanny stays with her the whole day. The little

girl also sat quietly and politely while the children had their

snack, but wouldn't touch her own until the other children had left

the room.

My son is 15 now (and ocd) and my ocd radar went into full-whoop when

I saw this little girl.

My question is (since I didn't figure out ocd for my son until he was

13 and so missed out on earlier help for him) should I make an effort

to say something to her parents? If so, what should I say?

Would any of you have responded well to a strange parent bringing up

an anxiety disorder about your kid? Would you have been grateful?

offended? both? Mayber her parents already know . . . but, what if

they don't?

>

> My son is almost 9 and was diagnosed when he was in Kindergarten.

His

> elementary school has a new assistant principal who is in charge of

> overseeing all special needs children's files this year. She has

> insisted that he should not be served in any way because he is in

the

> Gifted Program and makes A's and B's. We were told when he was

> diagnosed that he was ineligible for a 504 plan. We've been served

> through a " student support team " with modifications that have helped

> until now, but they are now saying that he no longer qualifies

because

> his grades are not low and therefore they don't see that he has any

> " significant level of impairment " . They don't see him spend 4-6

hours

> on homework each night, unable to move on if it's not perfect or

> " right " , but unable to sleep if he doesn't finish everything. They

> don't seem to think it's a problem for him to not finish anything at

> school because he's counting certain letters or avoiding certain

> words. He brings everything home to finish, adding to the endless

> nights of wading through hours and hours of repetitive work that

only

> frustrates him more.

>

> We have a meeting on Friday, and though as his mom, it all makes

> perfect sense to me that he needs the official documentation to make

> sure we don't have to do this every time we get a new teacher or new

> administrator, how do we get them to see that good grades and being

> gifted don't mean that he doesn't a have " significant level of

> impairment " ?? I am at my wit's end.......when adults feel that 6

> hours of homework a night for a 3rd grader is reasonable, I don't

even

> know where to start.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

> ~ginger

>

[Guest guest]

After thinking about it, I probably shouldn't have said giftedness is

a disability. However, the same law that allows for an IEP to

accommodate giftedness is the same one that allows for an IEP which

accommodates for disabilities affecting learning. My son's IEP

includes information about all of his needs (giftedness, OCD and ADHD-

IT).

If the administration is looking strictly at the grades to determine

whether your child needs accommodations, then they haven't really

completed a full evaluation. Grades don't tell the whole story -

especially in a child who is intellectually gifted. Gifted students

are often able to do well enough to disguise their struggles. With

just a few simple accommodations (having a set of books at home,

sitting in front of the classroom, etc.) my son has gone from A's and

B's to straight A's. So, clearly, as a result of the ADHD, he wasn't

reaching his potentional before the accommodations. However, the

most beneficial aspect is that he is beginning to love learning again

because his frustration level has decreased. Decreasing his

frustration so that he could be free to reach his potential was the

key for us. He still has his issues, but the accommodations which

were made were enough to help him work around the disability.

I understand your son's accommodations will be different, but I just

wanted to let you know that you are correct. Your son's ability to

receive an appropriate education is being affected by his OCD and

should, therefore, be addressed. If he weren't gifted, he probably

would not be maintaining the A's and B's, but the point is, he

shouldn't have to be struggling as he is in order to obtain an

education. His OCD is interfering with his ability to reach his

potential. For that reason, he needs accommodations.

I wish you good luck in pursuing his rights.

> >

> > Thanks Chris. Unfortunately, the system's 504 coordinator is one

> of

> > the people saying he doesn't qualify. She keeps going back to

that

> > his grades are A's and B's and so he's not " significantly

affected "

> > by his disability. She said that as a parent, she understands my

> > frustrations, but as a person responsible for following the

rules,

> > she can't bend them for him. I don't think it's bending them.

> > That's where our differences start.

> >

> > I'm building my notebook of OCD resources, etc. and we'll see

what

> > happens......I really don't want to have to call our lawyer, but

> > unfortunately it seems that we may end up there. (

> >

> > Thanks again!

> > ~ginger

> >

> >

> >

>