Re: Re: Confused, Is Discipline Appropriate or Necessary for Teenager with Sev. OCD

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

My advice to you is to assess how your son is functioning. If he is barely

functioning, not able to bathe himself, dress, eat, etc, I would definitely

think about hospitalization. If he is at least functioning , but not able to do

homework , etc, you may want to keep him home a couple of days, until his meds

kick in. You can also, just under a 504plan have it written in there, that he

does not have to do homework until you feel he can handle it. Can I ask what

meds he is on?

Hope this helps some

Take care

Judy

justlivey <justlivey@...> wrote:

Hi,

My son currently cannot focus enough to do homework of any kind.

Since school started this year he has yet to turn in one single

assignment. Before his English teacher requested that he be dropped

from her class because he was unable to do the work I had him set in

our living room and told him to start reading his book that was

assigned for summer reading. In four hours he read 11 pages. He is not

a kid that would intentionally not do his work. I have put a call in

to his doctor today to ask that she write some sort of note for me to

give the school.

I did ask her last week if I should consider pulling him out of school

until we find the right meds for him and she said it was my choice. He

is so consumed now by the OCD his doctor told me last week we may want

to have him admitted for inpatient care while we still have insurance.

Louis and thank you for trying to help me with all my concerns,

yes I have read your messages but I am so upset now myself that I

guess I am looking for someone to spell out to me what I should be

doing now. The wait and see what the meds are going to do is the hard

part. I wish I could see some positive results now.

Bill

[Guest guest]

Bill,

Sorry but I don't recall how long he has been taking these medications. My

concern is that with some people, SSRI's can cause " foggy thinking " . Seroquel

is probably the most sedating of the Atypicals also. What is the p-doc saying?

in Southeastern PA

justlivey <justlivey@...> wrote:

Hi Judy,

He is now taking 100mg of Zoloft every morning and 100mg of Zoloft at

bedtime. He also takes 50mg of Seroquel each morning and 100mg of

Seroquel at bedtime. This is the 1st full week at this large of a

dose. He is able to shower himself, although it take 45 min to an

hour. He feeds himself but if he has to make the choice of what to eat

like Poptarts or Bagles it takes him 15 to 20 minutes to make the

choice. Ask him any question about most anything and he will think

about the answer 3 to 5 minutes before he answers. He has great

troubles even picking out his clothes to wear. Our family has been

told not to make the choices for him, that will only make him worse. I

went home to check on him just now during my lunch and he was setting

in a chair, doing nothing. I asked, Hi, What cha doing? The ususal

answer, thinking....I asked, You always seemed to like school in the

past, why are you having trouble going now? He cannot give an answer.

He seems to have a very hard time giving logical answers. So do I make

the choice to pull him out of school myself? Will the school system

let him go back 2nd half of the year or next? Bill

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[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

My daughter was very sedated on the seroquel at first.That may be why he is

responding very slowly to everything. In the meantime, you might want to keep

him home for a week or so , so that he can adjust to the meds.I wouldn't think

about keeping him out for half a year. You want him to keep up with as much of

his normal life as possible. You don't need anything to keep him home for a

week.Just call and say he's ill. If he is still too ill after 4-5 days out of

school, I would think about a med adjustment , maybe cutting it down. It sounds

like he's overmedicated, although I'm not a doctor. Just giving my opinion. I

would definitely consult your son's psychiatrist ASAP

Judy

justlivey <justlivey@...> wrote:

Hi Judy,

He is now taking 100mg of Zoloft every morning and 100mg of Zoloft at

bedtime. He also takes 50mg of Seroquel each morning and 100mg of

Seroquel at bedtime. This is the 1st full week at this large of a

dose. He is able to shower himself, although it take 45 min to an

hour. He feeds himself but if he has to make the choice of what to eat

like Poptarts or Bagles it takes him 15 to 20 minutes to make the

choice. Ask him any question about most anything and he will think

about the answer 3 to 5 minutes before he answers. He has great

troubles even picking out his clothes to wear. Our family has been

told not to make the choices for him, that will only make him worse. I

went home to check on him just now during my lunch and he was setting

in a chair, doing nothing. I asked, Hi, What cha doing? The ususal

answer, thinking....I asked, You always seemed to like school in the

past, why are you having trouble going now? He cannot give an answer.

He seems to have a very hard time giving logical answers. So do I make

the choice to pull him out of school myself? Will the school system

let him go back 2nd half of the year or next? Bill

[Guest guest]

Bill,

My child is only 11 1/2, but has been unable to attend school in the

past. Luckily, it has always been at the end of a school year and we

have been able to do med. changes over the summer and she's back to

school in the fall. However, this has happened for 3 springs now, so I

know how difficult the school issue is.

After watching my child struggle to stay in school, constant calls to

come and pick her up, etc etc., for 3 years now, I have a different

viewpoint. She likes school, she's an A student, she wants to be

there. If her OCD is holding her back, force isn't going to make her

go. Her anxiety in the past has been too high. She can't concentrate.

Her peers wonder what in the heck is wrong with her after she bolts out

of the classroom for the 3rd time in an hour. If it happens again, I am

going to let her wait it out at home until the meds are helping.

What is the harm of pulling him from school? I guess I ask this from

anyone who feels strongly against it. How many classes does he need for

graduation? When he's better, hopefully in a few weeks or a couple of

months, can he do those courses online? At a local community college?

There shouldn't be too much that he has left. I would think that there

are other options for him to finish his diploma when he's up to it.

I think it would be worth checking into. Please keep us posted on his

progress.

Dina

[Guest guest]

Dear list members,

School issues are really tough to handle for our kids. Things are complicated

enough for most children today, then add in OCD and often school seems

unmanageable.

It has been the pervading wisdom of the professionals in this field, that if a

child can be kept in school, that is preferable. It is not the loss of

academics, or what friends may say. The real issue is the overwhelming anxiety

that probably would continue to grow once a kid in the throes of OCD has stopped

going to school. My sons therapist, who happens to be one of our list advisors,

has cautioned me over the years about just this issue. Many a child's fears

about returning to school become so overwhelming, that a therapist is sometimes

needed to assist the child in ERP in order to return to school. The therapist

often has to go to the school with the chld and actually help the child to enter

the building.....

Tommy experienced much of this type of anxiety while he was attending our

public school, abeit in a program that was inclusive. He experienced way too

much anxiety just driving past the parking lot. While it was incredibly

difficult to go through at the time, I am grateful that I had the sound advice

of his psychologist wyho gave me ideas as to how to assist Tommy in lessening

his anxiety surrounding going to school. We started in the summer by just

driving to he parking lot and sitting there until the anxiety lessened, the

proceeding on to going in the building, etc.

The decision to not require a child to attend school should be made with the

long term ramifications considered - and preferable with trusted professional

advice.

in Southeastern PA

Dina <dina.n.jones@...> wrote:

Bill,

My child is only 11 1/2, but has been unable to attend school in the

past. Luckily, it has always been at the end of a school year and we

have been able to do med. changes over the summer and she's back to

school in the fall. However, this has happened for 3 springs now, so I

know how difficult the school issue is.

After watching my child struggle to stay in school, constant calls to

come and pick her up, etc etc., for 3 years now, I have a different

viewpoint. She likes school, she's an A student, she wants to be

there. If her OCD is holding her back, force isn't going to make her

go. Her anxiety in the past has been too high. She can't concentrate.

Her peers wonder what in the heck is wrong with her after she bolts out

of the classroom for the 3rd time in an hour. If it happens again, I am

going to let her wait it out at home until the meds are helping.

What is the harm of pulling him from school? I guess I ask this from

anyone who feels strongly against it. How many classes does he need for

graduation? When he's better, hopefully in a few weeks or a couple of

months, can he do those courses online? At a local community college?

There shouldn't be too much that he has left. I would think that there

are other options for him to finish his diploma when he's up to it.

I think it would be worth checking into. Please keep us posted on his

progress.

Dina

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

if you think it's bad enough for inpatient I'd do it before your

insurance runs out as you mentioned - hang in eileen

Quoting sabcla15 <sabcla15@...>:

> Bill,

> That is a difficult situation. I think the main goal is to get him all

> better and if inpatient is possible why not considering that? There

> are also inpatient treatment centers which offer schooling if possible

> so the kids can start working on school work once they are ready and

> able to to that.

> I think that it is important to get some kind of valid dx letter and

> for the school to start some kind of accommodation process.

> I understand that you are somehow in panic mode - it is confusing and

> not everybody is helpful and understands.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

cindy I think it was you who mentioned holding your son accountable but

then also said not to discipline due to the disorder -I could use any

advice on that one today -we had 3 late nights and while most of the

day was ok OCD had many horrible moments of which I know I didn't

always handle correctly but OCD or not she can't hurt anyone end of

discussion -trying to figure out what is her annoyed at her sister and

what's OCD maybe telling her keep doing it do it harder etc -is she

scamming me? they are great manipulaters! I'm just trying to figure it

all out discipline wise right now

eileen

Quoting Joye <cjoye16@...>:

> Dear list members,

>

> School issues are really tough to handle for our kids. Things are

> complicated enough for most children today, then add in OCD and often

> school seems unmanageable.

>

> It has been the pervading wisdom of the professionals in this field,

> that if a child can be kept in school, that is preferable. It is not

> the loss of academics, or what friends may say. The real issue is

> the overwhelming anxiety that probably would continue to grow once a

> kid in the throes of OCD has stopped going to school. My sons

> therapist, who happens to be one of our list advisors, has cautioned

> me over the years about just this issue. Many a child's fears about

> returning to school become so overwhelming, that a therapist is

> sometimes needed to assist the child in ERP in order to return to

> school. The therapist often has to go to the school with the chld

> and actually help the child to enter the building.....

>

> Tommy experienced much of this type of anxiety while he was

> attending our public school, abeit in a program that was inclusive.

> He experienced way too much anxiety just driving past the parking

> lot. While it was incredibly difficult to go through at the time, I

> am grateful that I had the sound advice of his psychologist wyho gave

> me ideas as to how to assist Tommy in lessening his anxiety

> surrounding going to school. We started in the summer by just

> driving to he parking lot and sitting there until the anxiety

> lessened, the proceeding on to going in the building, etc.

>

> The decision to not require a child to attend school should be made

> with the long term ramifications considered - and preferable with

> trusted professional advice.

>

> in Southeastern PA

>

>

>

> Dina <dina.n.jones@...> wrote:

> Bill,

>

> My child is only 11 1/2, but has been unable to attend school in the

> past. Luckily, it has always been at the end of a school year and we

> have been able to do med. changes over the summer and she's back to

> school in the fall. However, this has happened for 3 springs now, so I

> know how difficult the school issue is.

>

> After watching my child struggle to stay in school, constant calls to

> come and pick her up, etc etc., for 3 years now, I have a different

> viewpoint. She likes school, she's an A student, she wants to be

> there. If her OCD is holding her back, force isn't going to make her

> go. Her anxiety in the past has been too high. She can't concentrate.

> Her peers wonder what in the heck is wrong with her after she bolts out

> of the classroom for the 3rd time in an hour. If it happens again, I am

> going to let her wait it out at home until the meds are helping.

>

> What is the harm of pulling him from school? I guess I ask this from

> anyone who feels strongly against it. How many classes does he need for

> graduation? When he's better, hopefully in a few weeks or a couple of

> months, can he do those courses online? At a local community college?

> There shouldn't be too much that he has left. I would think that there

> are other options for him to finish his diploma when he's up to it.

>

> I think it would be worth checking into. Please keep us posted on his

> progress.

>

> Dina

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things

> done faster.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Eileen,

I agree that your daughter cannot hurt anyone....same goes for Tommy. OCD

itself never " told " him to hurt anyone. It is always more the anxiety that

comes with not doing the ritual, or not following what OCD is telling him to do

that sometimes causes him to lash out. Almost like the OCD noise is too loud so

he lashes out when he becomes saturated in thoughts and feelings that he cannot

process All at one time. Then there is the typical 13 year old brother, 10 year

old sister thing too. I guess, I would give consequences for hitting, but not

for having thoughts about his sister having germs, which would be OCD related.

Am I making any sense?

For the longest time, I made both kids clean to toilets in the house whenever

they hit one another. This problem has gotten better over time, but it is not,

by any means totally gone.

Don't beat yourself up about not handling things " correctly " . What is

correctly anyway? What we all do on a daily basis is pretty phenomenal, so what

if we can't get it all right all of the time!

Joye in Southeastern PA

" autumn71A@... " <autumn71A@...> wrote:

cindy I think it was you who mentioned holding your son accountable

but

then also said not to discipline due to the disorder -I could use any

advice on that one today -we had 3 late nights and while most of the

day was ok OCD had many horrible moments of which I know I didn't

always handle correctly but OCD or not she can't hurt anyone end of

discussion -trying to figure out what is her annoyed at her sister and

what's OCD maybe telling her keep doing it do it harder etc -is she

scamming me? they are great manipulaters! I'm just trying to figure it

all out discipline wise right now

eileen

Quoting Joye <cjoye16@...>:

> Dear list members,

>

> School issues are really tough to handle for our kids. Things are

> complicated enough for most children today, then add in OCD and often

> school seems unmanageable.

>

> It has been the pervading wisdom of the professionals in this field,

> that if a child can be kept in school, that is preferable. It is not

> the loss of academics, or what friends may say. The real issue is

> the overwhelming anxiety that probably would continue to grow once a

> kid in the throes of OCD has stopped going to school. My sons

> therapist, who happens to be one of our list advisors, has cautioned

> me over the years about just this issue. Many a child's fears about

> returning to school become so overwhelming, that a therapist is

> sometimes needed to assist the child in ERP in order to return to

> school. The therapist often has to go to the school with the chld

> and actually help the child to enter the building.....

>

> Tommy experienced much of this type of anxiety while he was

> attending our public school, abeit in a program that was inclusive.

> He experienced way too much anxiety just driving past the parking

> lot. While it was incredibly difficult to go through at the time, I

> am grateful that I had the sound advice of his psychologist wyho gave

> me ideas as to how to assist Tommy in lessening his anxiety

> surrounding going to school. We started in the summer by just

> driving to he parking lot and sitting there until the anxiety

> lessened, the proceeding on to going in the building, etc.

>

> The decision to not require a child to attend school should be made

> with the long term ramifications considered - and preferable with

> trusted professional advice.

>

> in Southeastern PA

>

>

>

> Dina <dina.n.jones@...> wrote:

> Bill,

>

> My child is only 11 1/2, but has been unable to attend school in the

> past. Luckily, it has always been at the end of a school year and we

> have been able to do med. changes over the summer and she's back to

> school in the fall. However, this has happened for 3 springs now, so I

> know how difficult the school issue is.

>

> After watching my child struggle to stay in school, constant calls to

> come and pick her up, etc etc., for 3 years now, I have a different

> viewpoint. She likes school, she's an A student, she wants to be

> there. If her OCD is holding her back, force isn't going to make her

> go. Her anxiety in the past has been too high. She can't concentrate.

> Her peers wonder what in the heck is wrong with her after she bolts out

> of the classroom for the 3rd time in an hour. If it happens again, I am

> going to let her wait it out at home until the meds are helping.

>

> What is the harm of pulling him from school? I guess I ask this from

> anyone who feels strongly against it. How many classes does he need for

> graduation? When he's better, hopefully in a few weeks or a couple of

> months, can he do those courses online? At a local community college?

> There shouldn't be too much that he has left. I would think that there

> are other options for him to finish his diploma when he's up to it.

>

> I think it would be worth checking into. Please keep us posted on his

> progress.

>

> Dina

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things

> done faster.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dina,

Yes, there are many on our list who have been in a position to homeschool

their child who has OCD, and if that works for them and the child, it is

wonderful. I believe that is why the Homeschool list was formed as life is

somewhat different to navigate through when a child must attend a school setting

outside of the " home " environment, and OCD is in the picture.

My son attends a private school, and had I not been able to find a home within

our current school district so as to preserve this placement for him, (the

school district pays his tuition per IDEA regulations - his needs could not be

met in the regular education setting) I would have had to find an alternative

placement for him - I have to work. I am the main breadwinner and sole parent.

I spent 10 years as a stay at home Mom, largely due to my sons disabilities. I

do see both sides of this issue....

It is very important to work closely with trusted professionals when faced

with a decision to place a child who is dealing with OCD in an inpatient

setting-or to remove them from school. In my situation, the longer Tommy was

away from school, the worse the anxiety became surrounding returning to ANY

school setting. He did not have what would be diagnosed as a " school phobia "

just too much anxiety surrounding what was expected of him at school, both

academically and behaviorally. That may not be the case for others on this

list, which is why professional involvement is most important in making this

type of decision. The professionals involved should be most familiar with the

patient, the family circumstances and the potential long term ramifications of

any actions that family may decide to take in regards to treatment for their

child.

Just my opinion, but based on 13 years of experience in caring for a child

with severe AD/HD, OCD, Mood Disorder, probable PDD-NOS and several learning

disabilities, who takes LOTS of meds and has lots of therapy.

Joye in Southeastern PA

dina_n_jones <dina.n.jones@...> wrote:

In reviewing Bill's posts, he didn't mention a specific " school

phobia " where his son was afraid of school and needed ERP to get him

back to school. I read it as his son couldn't function due to PTST,

depression and OCD and when he was functioning again, school would not

be an issue. That is similar to our experience with our daughter

during the past 4 years. I was basing my comments on personal

experience with our child as a parent on an " OCD parenting " list. Of

course he should consult with his son's Dr's. In one post, he

mentions that the Dr. talked about inpatient treatment, in another

post, that the school decision was up to him. Since the Dr. had said

that the decision was up to him, I was giving my opinion as a parent,

not a professional.

I also know that there are parents on this list that have opted to

homeschool their children and feel that that is the right solution for

their family and child. Although my children are currently in the

public school system, I think flexiblity is important when you have

the option. I am not one that thinks the public school system is

mandatory since I have many friends that homeschool their children for

various reasons and they are very successful and I am open to that

option if the need arises.

I agree that the decision is very difficult and all involved with the

child need to be consulted during this highly emotional and stressful

time.

Dina

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

,

Yes, it is much more complicated when parents need to work. I think

that would be a stressful situation to be in for the parent. However, I

didn't want others on the list to think that if they have the approval

of their physician, that they would be hurting their child by removing

them from school for the short term. When my child is that severely

ill, our pdoc's opinion is very different for MY child's circumstances.

She has always said that the main concern is her health and school is

secondary. In fact, I was trying to get her through the end of 2nd

grade before a hospitalization one year and her statement was, " Who

cares if she misses the end of 2nd grade? Who cares if she misses 3rd

grade? You can make it up at home--she's a bright child and will be

quick to learn when she's functioning again. Her health is the most

important thing right now and she needs to get better first and then

everything else will fall into place. " I was having a hard time letting

go of the " norm " .

I participate on this list as a parent of a child with OCD. She doesnt'

have all of the other comorbid disorders. (Yet! :-) ) Maybe that is

why my Dr's opinion was different. When her OCD is under control, she's

fully functional in all situations--school, socially, sports, etc.

Dina