Re: Manipulation et al

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Jen. I know my response to your incredible email is going to sound very "short and sweet"....but I'm making it short because you have enough on your plate..... But,,,,,,is Hope on meds? Your doctor who said her issues are not "bad enough" is wrong. Also,,,,,have you thought about putting her in a treatment center? I've heard about them here (WI),,,,where they stay and are basically monitored on EVERYTHING to see what's up. Hugs. RobinJen <diegowench@...> wrote: I don't have a problem with Hope being Autistic. I adore her - I truly do. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about Autism, and have been both her biggest fan and her biggest advocate. What I am unable to do - is be all things to everyone. I know that she is capable of different behavior - because she has done it before! I cannot have three lives - caring for the needs of three girls who have completely opposite needs.I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic). I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a tizzy - but there aren't any options - I have turned these situations in my mind over and over - and there

aren't other options. I don't have anyone here - so that I could leave early, and take care of the gas, and all of that before the day starts so it won't upset her. I rarely if ever take a lunch and being on a tight budget and exhausted at day end so I don't make my own lunch to take, if I don't have cash to order with everyone else - I don't eat. I always try to stash hard candies in my purse because I am "pre diabetic" and hypoglycemic - but the kids get in my purse and take them - so when my sugar is way out of control I have no choice but to deviate from routine.It may sound as though I have lots of options, but really they just aren't there. My entire thing is that I KNOW what my daughter is capable of - and I know that there are times when the ADD issue with her shows its ugly face along with the mood swings and she acts out. At the end of each day when we do our behavior charts, we go to the calender, so that she can see what

will happen the next day - ie - everyone has to go to Dr. 's office tomorrow for an appointment, Molly will pick you up from school and I will come and get all of you. You MUST get a snack before we leave because Mommy hasn't been paid yet, and I don't have any money. When you throw a fit, I can't change the money situation and it isn't doing any good. Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. This is not autistic behavior - as most of it has started in the past year. When she was non verbal and couldn't go to day care and I had to take her into the office with me, yes she had violence issues, but they were not just mean like they are now. It is almost like she realizes that I truly don't have a lot of options, other than to not react but calmly either restrain her - which is horrible for her in a sensory way - but I have to protect myself and

the other kids - or ignore her. I won't swat her butt - unless she runs out into the street - which she no longer does - we have ingrained the whole crossing the street thing into her.Honestly, I can appreciate much of what you are saying, i wouldn't put it out there if I wasn't willing to try whatever I thought was going to work! What is difficult to convey via email is that a situation with a mom and support who has one or two children is completely different from being the wife of a merchant mariner, with four kids two ASD, two with severe ADHD and LD. Trying to be in control, and all things to all people, while trying to move cross country, having no way to get in touch with my husband and the only friends I have are out of state - well things get different. Truly the only constant in life is change, and I WAS able to teach my teenaged ASD daughter to be able to deal with it. Molly has severe low functioning Aspergers

Syndrome, and while things do frequently get difficult for her, we role played and social storied (although I didn't know that there was such a thing) - It was a gut level thing with me - we called it the game of what if. Where I would throw out different scenarios to her. I walked my ASD child through being molested, being abused emotionally by a stepmother, her brother's arrest directly because he "knew" about the molestation but didn't know what to do - so he started acting out.... So, I am not saying I am super mom - far from it actually - considering that I have RAGING ADD - along with mild bipolar disorder, I think that I handle things as well as can be considered.I am sure that you - like most people - look at advise and take what applies and leave the rest behind. So, when I examine the sound advice that you have given me (and YES I DO APPRECIATE IT!!!!), but when there are things that I know for a fact won't work due to

circumstances that I can't change - then I guess maybe I need to just vent and getting frustrated and angry (because I am only human).I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to change - because I am willing. At the same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.I truly admire you - you really seem to have a handle on all of this - and that is amazing!!! But even when you have "the" answers, there are circumstances where you have 5-6 people who all have different diagnoses and different basic needs - those answers have to be modified, have to change - because I could technically work around Hope's issues, I could make everything mostly regimented, yet by doing so - not only are my other kids needs not being met, I would be an exhausted nervous wreck, because then it becomes the

other two kids acting up - well - you get the picture.I really don't want to be the source of any bad feelings, It truly is a testament to how much this group has helped me that I feel safe enough to just vent - un moderated - to you guys!!! Soemtimes there are things that seem so basic, so innate that "you" wonder why people just don't do it.... I have to look at the big picture and work inwards to the details - because the chaos has to subside, it just has to. I have been losing my temper and screaming - and I hate that!!! I lay awake crying at night because I realize how destructive words can be - and I rarely lose control -but this past month I am losing control a lot. My mom lives out here - but she all of a sudden decides that "her life is breaking apart into little pieces" and takes off a bunch of work. I adore my mom - she is awesome -but she is one of those people who think that if everyone would just do things her way

it would all be just fine - and she thinks that I am being lazy or stupid or whatever, because I haven't been able to do what she is able to do. So, she won't help or come over to give me 10 minutes of peace or anything. All of my friends (who were the smart ones lol) already got the heck outta dodge and left California. Hope's godmother - will take her for around a 1/2 day once or twice a month - so I can get things done, but that leaves me with Sara the Screamer and Molly who the more the screaming increases, the more she withdraws and gets very passive aggressive. Being in high school - she needs to have time to herself - and time with her friends, but I need her help - so there is another can of worms.I honestly don't know that there are any answers. But I sure am willing to look through and grab techniques that may work and utilize them!!! I have been researching social stories to see how they may work for Hope - since what

I did with my older daughter (before i had ever heard of such a thing) just makes Hope angry and tantrum - usually hurting me or someone else. She just won't listen at all. I keep on trying, but all it does is cause increased violence. I am sure it is my fault and I am doing something wrong. I recently had to tell the girls that they are to protect themselves - when Hope attacks them. I just know that someone here is going to be hurt badly - and I will end up in Jail or worse - it truly is that bad. I was trying just now to talk to hope because she wanted to go to the neighbors, but all she has done all day is scream and hurt everyone. She is tired. So, i said to her - that she and I needed to make a plan for her to be rested before she went over there, because she could hurt Sadie (a dog she loves), or scare our neighbors if she went over there and got mean. Her response (10 minutes ago in the middle of me

writing this email), was to kick molly and try to bite her in the face, to slap Sara acros sthe face, then when I grabbed her and tried to explain the whole deal to her she bit my chair swung at me - and then grabbed a little bookshelf Sara made and swung it against the wall - denting the wall and this is a rental. She has been screaming and yelling and trying to hurt people since I got online. She just told me that I don't care about her - told her sister to go die - and now she is screaming at the top of her lungs again. Why? Because I tried to explain to her how if she went to Sadie's right now, she will scare her and then maybe sadie wouldn't want to play anymore.I can't even get through a full sentence if the response isn't sure Hope go do that. This is willfull behavior. All any of us in this house can do is protect ourselves from serious injury and for me to believe that I am the biggest failure as a mother in the

entire world. I know services are supposed to make a difference - I really believed that they would - but thus far - nothing. My husband finally got a job saving us from bankruptcy and ensuring that we could get out of California and try to build a slower paced life for our family - and the chaos continues to increase.If you actually got through this congrats - I am not even sure I am making sense - the screaming has been unabated, and now Sara is screaming at the top of her lungs and Molly is screaming, plus Hope.I have to go and see how much blood is involved this time.jennifer Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen,I know you are finding this all tough but please try to see that Hope is doing her best not to be autistic.>>Here is the kicker and

why I refuse to believe that a good portion of this >>is in fact willfull. I just went to her IEP meeting - and guess what?? >>She is no longer aggressive at school - she CAN self regulate!!! <<It is *so* common for ASD kids to do the 'pretending to be normal' thing at school. But they use up every ounce of energy they have doing so that they just can't at home. It is physically and mentally exhausting for them. They have to have somewhere to let out all that pent-up emotion and that is somewhere they feel safe, ie at home. Believe me this happens over and over, it is not just Hope. That is how ASD is. With some it comes out as anger, with others it can be withdrawal. Schedule in 'downtime' after school - this may have to be 2 or more hours when no-one has any expectations of her. She is not expected to interact with anyone (family or otherwise), but just gets to 'chill' in whatever way she finds most

helpful. My son used to watch videos.When my husband gets home it can take a whole weekend before he is able to listen or talk to me.>>She has the language skills,<<Don't think that because she can talk that her speech and understanding are 'normal'. She will have on-going problems with receptive and expressive language, and receptive and expressive prosody. She will NOT have the same skills as other children her age. She will also be way behind in her emotional development - learning to recognise and correctly express her own emotions. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Answers Food Drink Q & A.

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Robin, We are moving as soon as escrow closes mid July. I am in the process of finding out how much utilities and so forth will cost, so far it looks like I will be able to manage the bills once we get out there - barring any type of unusual expenses. The only bummer is that in that state we will be driving at least an hour and a half to the nearest doctor. I think that is a payoff I can deal with in exchange for a more serene atmosphere. Now all I have to do is hold everything off until we get out there. I am in the process of decluttering - which actually makes me feel pretty good! I love to sew and quilt and decided that if all of my stuff wouldn't fit into two boxes it was going out! I managed to get all of my stuff into 2 1/2 boxes (barring the bolts of fabric that would have fit - but I don't want to take them off the bolts. I also pulled four huge bags of

clothing out of my closet that didn't fit - or I had hung onto because they were expensive. Everything in the garage is not going except a few keepsakes that are boxed up in the rafters (jarrod will have to do this because I am terrified of spiders lol). It seems to be moving slowly - but at least we are moving along. I have the idea of decorating in the new place in asian - minimalist - that is an easy one - as I can get what I need from second hand stores. Hope actually woke up this morning without any fits! Last night was horrible but she was very calm when she got up this am - I was so proud of her - of course then Sara decided to scream and scream - but I brought her with me to the office. Hope is staying with Molly today and gets to make the rounds at all of her friends' houses. Last night - Hope threw a pencil into Sara's eye, bit Molly and pinched sara in the car - but for

the good morning it all seems ever so worth it - I was actually on time to work today. Keep us in your prayers - this is a pretty major move and I am sure that all of the kids are going to have some negative reactions but overall it has to work better than the insanity of Southern California right? Jen and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs@...> wrote: Jen. My heart is breaking for you. When do you head out for AR? Ever

consider lining up a place out there (AR) and declaring bankruptcy? Simply start over financially. Also,,,,,from the sound of your other email,,,,,,,your doc doesn't think your childs' behavior is "that bad". Can you get another doc? I really think you need to get out of your situation as fast as possible and get to where you have support (AR). Please keep me posted. RobinJen <diegowench > wrote: - This is EXACTLY what i am talking about. BAsically this situation is holding my entire family hostage. I cannot simply get her a treat - it then has to be every day - every time. Issue one - I pretty much do not react at all when they do this kind of stuff - I put my hand up in

front of me and say - Ok, I am done - and I refuse to discuss it - either they stop or there are consequences... I am hanging onto my sanity by a thread. All of the suggestions are great - if you have one or maybe two kids. I am a single mom 80% of the time - as my husband is a merchant mariner - I am a working mom - and there are other kids iwth other needs besides her!!! I do not always buy them stuff. There will be times that our appointments will run late - and if there is money - rather than let them get cranky and mean because they are so hungry I allow them to go and get a snack. This happens once in awhile depending upon the situation. I feel like the only one running my household is a six year old child - ok - I understand it isn't fair it just is - and I haven't ever had any anger issues over it before - but now I am along all but 12 weeks a year, strapped for money - and

having a child (who does understand about hurting people we talk about this stuff multiple times per day!!!) attempt to injure me. I am afraid to leave my house - and end up in tears constantly because I am absolutely humiliated. We have done everything by the book - and now with only me - still working if we want to keep eating until we get out of here - with three special needs girls - and a schedule that is erratic with absolutely no way to make it otherwise - and I have gotten so depressed that I range from being furious with non caring about anything. Trying to add any type of self care for myself would make our schedule even more insane... This is a completely lose lose situation. As far as the issues leading up to when this happens - there is another rub. One day she will take stuff in stride and it is all good - the next time - same exact situation - she loses it and someone

gets seriously injured (usually me or my 10 year old). Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen <diegowench > wrote:>>I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that things cannot >>be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to gouge out my >>eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i didn't have any) >>to walk down to the store and get candy.I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad behavior. <<It may be, but I think you are too busy looking at the behaviour and not thinking about what her thought processes may be which lead up to it.First, I doubt that she really

has any understanding of what she is doing, in terms of the hurt/damage she could cause to you. What she has learnt though, is that she needs to go to extremes to get your attention. You need to do a lot of work with her about how her actions can hurt someone - and this is where a social story, which you come back to again and again, could be useful. Social stories are not things which you do once, they have to be repeated over and over.Secondly, *why* did she think you might give her money and allow her to buy sweets? You must have done it in the past - perhaps for the last couple of weeks you have done that on that particular day? She is so desperate to find 'rules' in what you do, it will only take repeating something once or twice for her to make a rule about it ("on Tuesdays mum gives me money to buy sweets"), and then if you don't 'keep' that rule, then she needs to communicate to you that you have broken it. It

doesn't matter that you don't know what the rule is (she will not realise that you don't anyway). She is far too young to be able to verbalise her distress at the rule being broken, so she communicates in a more primitive way.Try to see what led up to the 'behaviour', then you are more likely to find a way to help her understand the way the world works.Another thing you need to work on with her is appropriate expression of emotions and attribution of feelings. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Answers - Check it out. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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I don't have an aid at home - I can't even imagine how anyone could do that. As far as Jarrod is concerned, he looked for three months, but couldn't find a job - other than menial labor - which would make it impossible for us to live. This was our last ditch effort - we didn't want him to go into the merchant marines - but we have to be able to take care of our family and we definitely can't do that on my salary. I was a Navy wife for 10 years, and although my husband can kind of sympathize, he expects me to "suck it up and act like a Navy wife" - he isn't a bad guy - its just that he is in his element being out to sea. vickie <blackfoot124@...> wrote: at school she has the aid and the aid is pretty strict.do u have the aid at home and if you do how many hours and that.my son is great at school he listens well he doesnt have the fits at school. the most noticble difference between school and home is structure /routine .i know with my kids they are in school all day following this rule and that when they get home well it is like another world they can move around ,read watch tv ,go outside and play they have more freedom at home.and i know my home is not well strucutred like school although i wished it was i have been wanting to make my house routine and organised .lol some day lol

..not to be weird or rude it isn my business .but could your husband look for a job where he can be home more .it is way to hard on one person .and you shoulndt have to go through it alone. i know what u mean about being frightened i am like walking on egg shells not knowing when he will flip or my other son who is taller than me .and i cant get a hold of him i posted another respince to one of ur posts u may of gotten it already not sure but family based services i think would be a godsend for you . and they say if u r having a crisis call the emervgency number they give or the police i know it is scary and it may make u feel like crap to call the cops on ur lil girl but the safety of you and the other girls you need to think about .to protect them .i dont know how she can be flipping out the way she does and not be severe in anything .did u check into bi polar or another illness a long the lines of that.i wouldnt stop giving her a treat

if U WANT to give her a treat .but if she flips over wanting it make sure you dont give it to her. all the parenting mags and books say if you give in they are then taught that this is what it will take to get you to give her the treat so the next time she wants soemthing she will go right to the fit to get it.BUT I KNOW IT IS SO HARD IT IS LIKE WITH MY SON I DONT WANT TO GIVE IN BUT DAMMIT IF IT WILL GET HIM TO STOP BUT THERE IS THE MISTAKE THE INCONSISTANCY. oh the crossing the rd thing was just my x ample i dotn aleways know how to xplain things well . have you tried deep pressure that may help not sure it has been ahile since i used it . i dotn want u to think i am telling u what to do i am just making sugggestuions that have been giving to me from the family based ,teachers drs i am in the same boat at a loss as what to do if i think of anything else or if by chance something i do works i

will let u know vickie Manipulation et al I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that things cannot be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to gouge out my eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i didn't have any) to walk down to the store and

get candy. I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad behavior. It is testament to how often I deal with it that it didn't even phase me - I didn't really even react other than to take the pencil away from her. There are times that I am convinced that I live in hell. Jen Mom to four special kids Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

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I have respite and regional center, but pretty much that is all that is available. The respite is only for Hope, and so that isn't much of a break - you know? What state do you live in? Sounds like the services where you are are much better than in California.vickie <blackfoot124@...> wrote: jennifer, i can so relate to hwat you are

going through .i have 4 kids 2 with the hfa .they range from ages 4 through 16.and i am a single mother all the time.my x only gets them saturdays from 5 pm to sunday 8 pm.that is it he dont call during the week he doesnt take them during the week to help me .nothing. and i so know what u mean by just having to deal with one maybe 2 kids but to have so many and to have mulitple kids with special needs you feel like each kid has a part of you and is yanking you like u are the rope in a tug of war game.add to this the responsiblility of the house and finances and keeping every one on the right schedules well there is only one way to sum it up OVERWHELMED .I was wondering I get a family based team in my house they visit 2 times a week for 8 months and they help you and the kids.basically it will help you by coming in and teaching you ways that you can do to help your child .i know with me sticker charts and times outs do not work with me so they

will help me find different ways to help. another avenue is you can try for respit care .you can either take the kids to them or they reimburse you for the sitter at their rate(respit)this way you can get out for a few hours and relax and pull yourself together.here we have a thing called spark where they have a place(usually the y) with beds and you call in and request a bed so they can spend a few days there so you can get things done and have a break .I cannot recall what the ages of the kids were but is there a way you can delegate some minor jobs to the girls ,make it like a game .( a spinner like in a game and on the spinner you have chores that they can do ex: set the table ,vacuum,dust stuff like that)try sepreting your day into 3 parts the am routine, the afternoon routine and the evening routine.maybe make a lil chart that tells them where they are chart mark the routines then put lil velcroed felt people so they can move the

"themselves to the routine they are in ) you can try this also with tasks daily living skills ,hygiene,washing ,. my son also responds the way your girl responds. he flips out on me hitting, throwing, swearing ,screaming i have had them do it in the stores drs officesfriends and families houses .yea it is embarrassing and i have had people give me the looks and make the snide lil commentsi ignore it and deal with my kids .is there a way you can restrin her when she flips like hold her down so che cant hurt anyone or herself i cannot with my son he is to strong when he is flipping ..i havnt done it yet but i was also thinking about taping him when he is in a fit and then when he is calm show him what he did .maybe see if he can recall what set him off.my sons are the same way they may be lil angels one day and be the evil twin the next .if you ever want to chat i am here blackfoot124 i am alsways invisible so you can just send out

a hello anybody home i will answer if i am on . hopefully we can figure something out for your girls and my boys i have been looking for ways to help them .but i never know which way to go . talk to u soon sorry bout the book vickie Re: Manipulation et al - This is EXACTLY what i am talking about. BAsically this situation is holding my entire family hostage. I cannot simply get her a treat - it then has

to be every day - every time. Issue one - I pretty much do not react at all when they do this kind of stuff - I put my hand up in front of me and say - Ok, I am done - and I refuse to discuss it - either they stop or there are consequences. .. I am hanging onto my sanity by a thread. All of the suggestions are great - if you have one or maybe two kids. I am a single mom 80% of the time - as my husband is a merchant mariner - I am a working mom - and there are other kids iwth other needs besides her!!! I do not always buy them stuff. There will be times that our appointments will run late - and if there is money - rather than let them get cranky and mean because they are so hungry I allow them to go and get a snack. This happens once in awhile depending upon the situation. I feel like the only one running my household is a six year old child - ok - I understand it isn't fair

it just is - and I haven't ever had any anger issues over it before - but now I am along all but 12 weeks a year, strapped for money - and having a child (who does understand about hurting people we talk about this stuff multiple times per day!!!) attempt to injure me. I am afraid to leave my house - and end up in tears constantly because I am absolutely humiliated. We have done everything by the book - and now with only me - still working if we want to keep eating until we get out of here - with three special needs girls - and a schedule that is erratic with absolutely no way to make it otherwise - and I have gotten so depressed that I range from being furious with non caring about anything. Trying to add any type of self care for myself would make our schedule even more insane... This is a completely lose lose situation. As far as the issues leading up to when this happens - there is

another rub. One day she will take stuff in stride and it is all good - the next time - same exact situation - she loses it and someone gets seriously injured (usually me or my 10 year old). Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen <diegowench (DOT) com> wrote:>>I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that things cannot >>be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to gouge out my >>eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i didn't have any) >>to walk down to the store and get candy.I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad behavior. <<It may be, but I think you are too busy looking

at the behaviour and not thinking about what her thought processes may be which lead up to it.First, I doubt that she really has any understanding of what she is doing, in terms of the hurt/damage she could cause to you. What she has learnt though, is that she needs to go to extremes to get your attention. You need to do a lot of work with her about how her actions can hurt someone - and this is where a social story, which you come back to again and again, could be useful. Social stories are not things which you do once, they have to be repeated over and over.Secondly, *why* did she think you might give her money and allow her to buy sweets? You must have done it in the past - perhaps for the last couple of weeks you have done that on that particular day? She is so desperate to find 'rules' in what you do, it will only take repeating something once or twice for her to make a rule about it ("on Tuesdays mum gives

me money to buy sweets"), and then if you don't 'keep' that rule, then she needs to communicate to you that you have broken it. It doesn't matter that you don't know what the rule is (she will not realise that you don't anyway). She is far too young to be able to verbalise her distress at the rule being broken, so she communicates in a more primitive way.Try to see what led up to the 'behaviour', then you are more likely to find a way to help her understand the way the world works.Another thing you need to work on with her is appropriate expression of emotions and attribution of feelings. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

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AMEN! I hope that your hubby once he gets out does't go Merchants - basically - there is no email, no sat phone for him to call from - ACK!!!! He is only home 12 weeks a year and it drives me batty. By the same token, it is expensive to raise kids and because of his rating in the Navy - he wasn't able to find work anywhere - it was scary - he was out of work for three months and everything kind of fell apart. halford517@... wrote: i know how it is to have dad gone. My husband has been in the army 5 years and has been gone 3.5 of those years. I know how stressful it can be to raise an autistic child on your own. However there are ways to deal with daddy being gone. My son on cue would get sick the minute my husbands feet hit the plane, he would act up and throw un controllable tantrums. They as children ( not autistic children) dont understand why daddy is gone. Why daddy disiplines one minute and the next hes out of the house again. Toss the autism aspect in there with it, and you have a child who does not grasp the concept of it at all. When the soldiers deploy i always see children acting out , biteing, kicking , punching etc. it takes a month or two to get a handle on things.. in your case, once you get a handle hubbys home and the routine starts all over again..... Re: Manipulation et al Hope has had a year of ABA, she is on medication. We have tried everything - social stories, talking, charts (which help a bit), PECS, redirection - giving her an area to cool off - pillows to help - positive reinforcement = you name it! Here is the kicker and why I refuse to believe that a good portion of this is in fact willfull. I just went to her IEP meeting - and guess what?? She is no longer aggressive at school - she CAN self regulate!!! She sometimes self injures at school -but her aide is very very strict and she will start and then stop again... So - I know she is

capable of doing this - she has shown everyone! I also know that while I could wish and try my hardest to make things very predictable for her - schedules and so on - there is simply no way that I could make things like that on a daily basis. My husband is a merchant marine - only home 12 weeks per year, I work full time plus freelance on the side, I have two other daughters - neither of whom are NT etc etc. This whole situation has been my imputus for getting out of California - where there is space for her to run and run. A horse for her to be responsible (well at least partially) for. And friends who support me - (I have regional center and school services here -but her behaviors are so alienating that I no longer even attempt to have any friends). I am sure that it seems extreme to up and move over 1500 miles away to a place I have never been - but it is an extreme reaction to a very extreme situation.

Hope does remember about looking both ways - through constant (and really annoying to me!) repetition and our neighbors across the street who are grandparents and really enjoy the kids looking out and repeating some more. Hope has/does and probably will continue to seriously injure herself and her sibs along with me. I know bad behavior when I see it - this isn't like when she was non verbal. She has the language skills, we have even set up "appropriate angry words" so that she can tell me - I reward her for telling me - I am angry! and we work on figuring out how I can help her. Bottom line - every time this comes up it is because she isn't getting her way. Stupid things like wanting to go to the deli are primary. So - basically I have a choice - either reward her with a trip for a treat every day - or never. Once something has been introduced she demands it - period -

and God help all of us when we cannot do what she wants!!!!!! Sensory issues are sensory issues (kind of like IT issues - when you have intermittent problems you can generally know it isn't a settings issue - it is a server issue). So, am I angry - YES! I have a right to get angry because I flinch whenever she comes near me - I get ANGRY because my two older girls are constantly explaining why they have huge bite mark bruises on their faces etc., I get angry because she kicks my dog when she is angry! She can control herself - she just chooses not to. Because dad is gone ! She tells me daily that she hopes that I die in my sleep and that she should put a knife in my heart. Her psychologist says that she does have adhd (but not severe), and possible mood disorders - again not serious. She takes abilify, Tenex, Prevacid for her GERD, DVATP for bedwetting. Once we get out to Arkansas, I will be making her an appointment to go down to Thoughtful House in Austin Texas - because they do whole child treatment - and theoretically if you can get rid of the GERD/Colitis pain and treat that - the aggression goes way down and you can remove the child from psychotropic meds. I would love to be able to do this - I am truly if not frightened, at least nervous around my own child and I hate it!!!! I am usually pretty mellow about this stuff - but I am in escrow on this house, hubby is completely out of touch (the Navy seems like it was a cakewalk at this point) - no sat phones, no email - NOTHING, I found out that his car is being literally held together by duct tape, behind on bills and just trying to hang on until we get there while continuing to work 50=60 hours a week just to cover the basics, plus dealing with a hormonal angry daughter convinced that people in AR are all

stupid hillbillies who won't know anything about Japanese anime etc., etc., I am so blessed by my best friend who lives out there - his mom had a stroke 2 days ago, and he and his wife are still calling me 2-5x per day just to talk me through all of my anxiety. I am trying to purchase a car for hubby (actually decided to hand over my 05 Impala that I bought new and only has 32k miles on it) - and they are helping me to understand what I will need out of a car during winter. They truly are such a blessing to me!!! Jenvickie <blackfoot124 > wrote: IT MAY NOT BE SENSORY OR WHAT NOT BUT MY SON HAS THE ADHD ON TOP OF WHAT ELSE HE HAS IN IT HE HAS THE

IMPULSIVITY . I THINK ALL KIDS (WHETHER THEY ARE NT OR ASD) THEY CAN FORM SOME BAD THOUGHTS IT IS WHAT THEY DO WITH THE THOUGHTS AND HOW TO CONTROL THEM THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NT KID AND THE ASD KID.I EXPLAIN IT LIKE THIS .AN NT KID WILL BE WALKING ON THE SIDEWALK HE LOOKS UP AND SEES THE ICE CREAM STAND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD .MOST KIDS CAN UNDERSTAND (LIKE AT 7 ) TO LOOK BOTH WAYS AND WALK ACROSS THE ROAD WHEN NO CARS ARE COMING OR WAITING FOR THE SIGN TO SAY WALK .OKAY NO PROBLEM RIGHT .WELL MY SON WITH THE WAY HE IS WILL BE WALKING DOWN THE STREET RUN INTO THE ROAD OUT OF THE BLUE NOT LOOKING OR ANYTHING TO GET TO THE ICE CREAM ON THE OTHER SIDE(OKAY OTHER KIDS MAY DO THIS ALSO WHO ARNT ASD) NOT EVEN REALISING A CAR ALMOST HIT HIM . ANOTHER WAY I SEE IT WHEN U AREPLAYING (ADULTS AND CHILDREN ) AND THERE IS A NASTY EDGE THAT IF U GO OVER IT U WILL GET HURT) MOST PEOPLE WILL

AVOID IT KNOWING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN OF THEY RAN TO IT AND NOT WATCH WHAT THEY WERE DOING .MY SON WOULD BE RUNNING RIGHT UP TIO IT BEFORE EVEN THE THOUGHT EVEN COMES INTO HIS HEAD HEY THAT CAUZE AN OUCHY. ANOTHER THING MY SON DOES HE IS VERY VERY AGRESSIVE HE SWINGS AND HITS AND THROWS SWEARS TELLES U HE IS GOING TO KILL U .WHY I KNOW HE CANT CONTROL THIS IS THE WHOLE TIME HE SCREAMS HE IS CRYIONG TELLING ME SORRY WHILE HE SWINGS AT MEAND YOU CAN SEE IN HIS MANNERISMS THAT HE IS TRYING TO CONTROL HIS REACTION BUT HE CANT . MAYBE SHE REALLY DONT WANT TO HURT YOU BUT SHE CANT FIND AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO RELEASE THE FRUSTRATION . I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A CHILD MY MOM WOULNDT TAKE ME SHOPPING AFTER SHE TOLD ME SHE WOULD ( SHE IS EPILEPTIC AND WOULD GET MINI SIESURES) WELL ID GET SO UPSET I WOULD FEEL ALL FRAZZELD I LITERALLY WOULD STOMP MY FOOT LIKE A BABY(ID BE 13) AND I WOULD GET SO ANGRY I NEVER STRUCK OUT AT THEM I HAD CONTROL OVER THAT

BUT ID FLYU UP TO MY ROOM SLAM THE DOOR AND GRAB THE PILLOWS AND PUNCH THEM I LITERALLY WANTED TO JUST SCREAM AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS AND TRHOW THINGS ( WHICH I DID DO )BUT I WAS ABLE TO HAVE CONTROL SO I NEVER HIT ANYONE BUT TO BE A CHILD WHO DOESNT REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAS DIFFICULTY CONTROLING BEHAVIORS IT MUST BE REALLY FRIGHTENING AND TO THEM MAYBE THEY THINK THEY ARE RIGHT AND YOU ARE SPITING HER . DO YOU MEDICATE HER ?? HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO A BEHAVIOR SPECIALIST TO WORK WITH HER? BELIEVE ME I KNOW IT IS VERY HARD TO HANDLE AN AGRESSIVE CHILD .MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU .I HAD DESCRIBED MY HOME LIFE ONE TIME TO A FREIND AND HE SAID IT SOUNDED LIKE A WAR ZONE. I REALLY DO NOT THINK IT IS DONE ON PURPOSE . BUT I HOPE YOU CAN FIND AWAY TO HELP HER TO STOP.GOOD LUCK VICKIE Manipulation et al I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that things cannot be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to gouge out my eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i didn't have any) to walk down to the store and get candy. I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad behavior. It is testament to how often I deal with it that it didn't even phase me - I didn't really even

react other than to take the pencil away from her. There are times that I am convinced that I live in hell. Jen Mom to four special kids Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

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party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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[Guest guest]

Big Hugs - THANK YOU!!! We had the first good morning in a month today (except for Sara - but that was only around 10 minutes). I am actually somewhat relaxed, and Sara is at the office with me (molly is watching Hope and Hope didn't get upset when I left because she is going to play over at her friends house today). Sara is watching a clients son while she is helping me today - and she is doing a fabulous job. Have a wonderful day! JenDantSolo@... wrote: Jen (diegowench): i think you are doing the absolute best that anyone could do in such a difficult situation as yours. i don't know how you handle it! keep up the great work and don't allow anyone to make you feel like you're doing less than 110%! I LOVE SOMEONE WITH AUTISM See what's free at AOL.com. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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[Guest guest]

Dear Judy and Jen,

God bless you both. We're having a rough few days here too. A quick 2 cents about Depakote is that it may make females grow facial hair. So if it works for a boy/man okay.

Praying for us all.

Love,

Francine

In a message dated 6/20/2007 9:31:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alwaysmynature@... writes:

Hi Jen,You may feel like a failure right now, but in my opinion, I think you show heroic qualities to be able to just survive a week or two of this. How long have you endured? Truly, I can only say I am in awe (sp?)of what all you are handling. I would say, try & be pleased that you are hanging in despite your daughters best efforts! If you can get respite, take advantage. When I first got it, the first four hours, I just laid in bed! It took me 2 hrs before I could relax. Than as the respite days went on, I was able to at least get an hour or two of work done and I felt good doing it. It's sad, but as soon as my son came home, the stress quickly built up again, but at least I had those few hours to remember.....like a vacation to an exotic place!Sounds like you are doing the best anyone could under those circumstances. Don't beat yourself up about it. My daughter has been trying to talk me into moving to Missouri with her. I too think that having land would make a difference for my son. The Green Effect?Keep us posted on your move. Judy> > >>I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that > things cannot > > >>be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to > gouge out my > > >>eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i didn't > have any) > > >>to walk down to the store and get candy.> > > > I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad > behavior. <<> > > > It may be, but I think you are too busy looking at the behaviour > and not > > thinking about what her thought processes may be which lead up to > it.> > > > First, I doubt that she really has any understanding of what she > is doing, > > in terms of the hurt/damage she could cause to you. What she has > learnt > > though, is that she needs to go to extremes to get your attention. > You need > > to do a lot of work with her about how her actions can hurt > someone - and > > this is where a social story, which you come back to again and > again, could > > be useful. Social stories are not things which you do once, they > have to be > > repeated over and over.> > > > Secondly, *why* did she think you might give her money and allow > her to buy > > sweets? You must have done it in the past - perhaps for the last > couple of > > weeks you have done that on that particular day? She is so > desperate to find > > 'rules' in what you do, it will only take repeating something once > or twice > > for her to make a rule about it ("on Tuesdays mum gives me money > to buy > > sweets"), and then if you don't 'keep' that rule, then she needs > to > > communicate to you that you have broken it. It doesn't matter that > you don't > > know what the rule is (she will not realise that you don't > anyway). She is > > far too young to be able to verbalise her distress at the rule > being broken, > > so she communicates in a more primitive way.> > > > Try to see what led up to the 'behaviour', then you are more > likely to find > > a way to help her understand the way the world works.> > > > Another thing you need to work on with her is appropriate > expression of > > emotions and attribution of feelings.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, > let's dance!> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.> >> > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!> > > > ---------------------------------> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.>

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen,

You may feel like a failure right now, but in my opinion, I think

you show heroic qualities to be able to just survive a week or two

of this. How long have you endured? Truly, I can only say I am in

awe (sp?)of what all you are handling. I would say, try & be

pleased that you are hanging in despite your daughters best

efforts!

If you can get respite, take advantage. When I first got it, the

first four hours, I just laid in bed! It took me 2 hrs before I

could relax. Than as the respite days went on, I was able to at

least get an hour or two of work done and I felt good doing it.

It's sad, but as soon as my son came home, the stress quickly built

up again, but at least I had those few hours to remember.....like a

vacation to an exotic place!

Sounds like you are doing the best anyone could under those

circumstances. Don't beat yourself up about it.

My daughter has been trying to talk me into moving to Missouri with

her. I too think that having land would make a difference for my

son. The Green Effect?

Keep us posted on your move.

Judy

> > >>I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that

> things cannot

> > >>be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to

> gouge out my

> > >>eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i

didn't

> have any)

> > >>to walk down to the store and get candy.

> >

> > I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad

> behavior. <<

> >

> > It may be, but I think you are too busy looking at the

behaviour

> and not

> > thinking about what her thought processes may be which lead up

to

> it.

> >

> > First, I doubt that she really has any understanding of what

she

> is doing,

> > in terms of the hurt/damage she could cause to you. What she

has

> learnt

> > though, is that she needs to go to extremes to get your

attention.

> You need

> > to do a lot of work with her about how her actions can hurt

> someone - and

> > this is where a social story, which you come back to again and

> again, could

> > be useful. Social stories are not things which you do once,

they

> have to be

> > repeated over and over.

> >

> > Secondly, *why* did she think you might give her money and

allow

> her to buy

> > sweets? You must have done it in the past - perhaps for the

last

> couple of

> > weeks you have done that on that particular day? She is so

> desperate to find

> > 'rules' in what you do, it will only take repeating something

once

> or twice

> > for her to make a rule about it ( " on Tuesdays mum gives me

money

> to buy

> > sweets " ), and then if you don't 'keep' that rule, then she

needs

> to

> > communicate to you that you have broken it. It doesn't matter

that

> you don't

> > know what the rule is (she will not realise that you don't

> anyway). She is

> > far too young to be able to verbalise her distress at the rule

> being broken,

> > so she communicates in a more primitive way.

> >

> > Try to see what led up to the 'behaviour', then you are more

> likely to find

> > a way to help her understand the way the world works.

> >

> > Another thing you need to work on with her is appropriate

> expression of

> > emotions and attribution of feelings.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're

here,

> let's dance!

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here,

let's dance!

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.

>

[Guest guest]

Jen:

I'm so glad you had a good morning! I think that sometimes our kids know just when they're on the verge of pushing us too far and they back off, lol. Hope you have many more good mornings ahead of you!!

I LOVE SOMEONE WITH AUTISM See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

I also agree you DO NOT come off as a whiner .You come across as a mother doing her best in a difficult situation.You like everyone else needs an ear to listen to you .Having such an ear can help you work trhough the issues and calm you.i also agree with the too structured which is why when they get home from school all hell breaks loose .their letting out the pent up pressure that has accumulated all day.YOu are a remarkable mom YOU are going through a lot .I too am taking care of kids by myself.AND IT IS F & **ING HARD .xcuse the & *^( lol my kids also if they know something ios coming wil perseverate on it.my son once cried ?freaking out every night cuz he heard he had a dentist appt in a month .it is funny looking back at it but while going through it it was nerve racking .anytime you need to vent bring it here that is what we are here for support and comfort and help if we can .well i got to go i just remembered i

have an appt in 15 mins and i aint even showered yet .yikes

vickie

Re: Manipulation et al

In a message dated 06/20/2007 12:41:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, diegowench@... writes:

I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic) . I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a tizzy - but there aren't any options -

I think that you can only do so much to keep things routine. And life is unpredictable...there will always be times when it will be necessary to do things differently, and if your schedule is too rigid, I feel it may be even more difficult for people with autism to cope. Structure is vital, but not everything goes according to plan.

<<< Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. >>>

I have found that preparing my daughter for what is to come can be a double edged sword...sometimes it's fine for her to know what's coming. Other times, if she doesn't want to go where we are going and she will perseverate the entire way there, getting more and more anxious and worked up.

<<I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to change - because I am willing. At the same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.>>>

You come off as someone very strong who is doing the best one can do in such a difficult situation.

I LOVE SOMEONE WITH AUTISM

See what's free at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hope has been at it since my husband left which was the 8th, he just came back on the 29th - and was gone for 28 days before that. Hope has been doing a little better the past couple of days - I keep on hoping and trying to not give in to her tantrums - because that just undermines all of my work with her. Hugs to you! Jenalwaysmynature <alwaysmynature@...> wrote: Hi Jen,You may feel like a failure right now, but in my opinion, I think

you show heroic qualities to be able to just survive a week or two of this. How long have you endured? Truly, I can only say I am in awe (sp?)of what all you are handling. I would say, try & be pleased that you are hanging in despite your daughters best efforts! If you can get respite, take advantage. When I first got it, the first four hours, I just laid in bed! It took me 2 hrs before I could relax. Than as the respite days went on, I was able to at least get an hour or two of work done and I felt good doing it. It's sad, but as soon as my son came home, the stress quickly built up again, but at least I had those few hours to remember.....like a vacation to an exotic place!Sounds like you are doing the best anyone could under those circumstances. Don't beat yourself up about it. My daughter has been trying to talk me into moving to Missouri with her. I too think that having land would

make a difference for my son. The Green Effect?Keep us posted on your move. Judy> > >>I keep on coming back to this - there simply are times that > things cannot > > >>be explained or social storied away. Yesterday Hope tried to > gouge out my > > >>eyes with a pencil because I wouldn't give her money (i didn't > have any) > > >>to walk down to the store and get candy.> > > > I am sorry but that is not sensory - that is just willful bad > behavior. <<> > > > It may be, but I think you are too busy looking at the behaviour > and not > > thinking about what her thought processes may be which lead up to > it.> > > > First, I doubt that she really has any

understanding of what she > is doing, > > in terms of the hurt/damage she could cause to you. What she has > learnt > > though, is that she needs to go to extremes to get your attention. > You need > > to do a lot of work with her about how her actions can hurt > someone - and > > this is where a social story, which you come back to again and > again, could > > be useful. Social stories are not things which you do once, they > have to be > > repeated over and over.> > > > Secondly, *why* did she think you might give her money and allow > her to buy > > sweets? You must have done it in the past - perhaps for the last > couple of > > weeks you have done that on that particular day? She is so > desperate to find > > 'rules' in what you do, it will only take repeating something

once > or twice > > for her to make a rule about it ("on Tuesdays mum gives me money > to buy > > sweets"), and then if you don't 'keep' that rule, then she needs > to > > communicate to you that you have broken it. It doesn't matter that > you don't > > know what the rule is (she will not realise that you don't > anyway). She is > > far too young to be able to verbalise her distress at the rule > being broken, > > so she communicates in a more primitive way.> > > > Try to see what led up to the 'behaviour', then you are more > likely to find > > a way to help her understand the way the world works.> > > > Another thing you need to work on with her is appropriate > expression of > > emotions and attribution of feelings.> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, > let's dance!> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.> >> > > > > > > Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!> > > > ---------------------------------> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search.> Life may not be the

party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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[Guest guest]

She is maxed out for her weight on Abilify - she also takes Tenex and DVAPP. The meds aren't the problem (her psychiatrist agrees), it is her behavior - and not getting what she wants when she wants it. As far as a treatment facility - no - I don't think I could do that - not for a little 6 year old. It would absolutely kill me to have to do something like that. The doctors have been very specific -she does not have bipolar disorder, she DOES have adhd - but the stimulants just get her way too wound up - so that is out. They told me that she has classic regressive autism - because she lost all of her skills post DPT/MMR (more skills lost with each vaccination - although I wasn't able to put it all together until I learned more about it). and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs@...> wrote: Jen. I know my response to your incredible email is going to sound very "short and sweet"....but I'm making it short because you have enough on your plate..... But,,,,,,is Hope on meds? Your doctor who said her issues are not "bad enough" is wrong. Also,,,,,have you thought about putting her in a treatment center? I've heard about them here (WI),,,,where they stay and are basically monitored on EVERYTHING to see what's up. Hugs. RobinJen

<diegowench > wrote: I don't have a problem with Hope being Autistic. I adore her - I truly do. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about Autism, and have been both her biggest fan and her biggest advocate. What I am unable to do - is be all things to everyone. I know that she is capable of different behavior - because she has done it before! I cannot have three lives - caring for the needs of three girls who have completely opposite needs.I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic). I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a

tizzy - but there aren't any options - I have turned these situations in my mind over and over - and there aren't other options. I don't have anyone here - so that I could leave early, and take care of the gas, and all of that before the day starts so it won't upset her. I rarely if ever take a lunch and being on a tight budget and exhausted at day end so I don't make my own lunch to take, if I don't have cash to order with everyone else - I don't eat. I always try to stash hard candies in my purse because I am "pre diabetic" and hypoglycemic - but the kids get in my purse and take them - so when my sugar is way out of control I have no choice but to deviate from routine.It may sound as though I have lots of options, but really they just aren't there. My entire thing is that I KNOW what my daughter is capable of - and I know that there are times when the ADD issue with her shows its ugly face along with the mood swings and she acts

out. At the end of each day when we do our behavior charts, we go to the calender, so that she can see what will happen the next day - ie - everyone has to go to Dr. 's office tomorrow for an appointment, Molly will pick you up from school and I will come and get all of you. You MUST get a snack before we leave because Mommy hasn't been paid yet, and I don't have any money. When you throw a fit, I can't change the money situation and it isn't doing any good. Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. This is not autistic behavior - as most of it has started in the past year. When she was non verbal and couldn't go to day care and I had to take her into the office with me, yes she had violence issues, but they were not just mean like they are now. It is almost like she realizes that I truly don't have a lot of options, other than to not react but

calmly either restrain her - which is horrible for her in a sensory way - but I have to protect myself and the other kids - or ignore her. I won't swat her butt - unless she runs out into the street - which she no longer does - we have ingrained the whole crossing the street thing into her.Honestly, I can appreciate much of what you are saying, i wouldn't put it out there if I wasn't willing to try whatever I thought was going to work! What is difficult to convey via email is that a situation with a mom and support who has one or two children is completely different from being the wife of a merchant mariner, with four kids two ASD, two with severe ADHD and LD. Trying to be in control, and all things to all people, while trying to move cross country, having no way to get in touch with my husband and the only friends I have are out of state - well things get different. Truly the only constant in life is change, and I WAS able to

teach my teenaged ASD daughter to be able to deal with it. Molly has severe low functioning Aspergers Syndrome, and while things do frequently get difficult for her, we role played and social storied (although I didn't know that there was such a thing) - It was a gut level thing with me - we called it the game of what if. Where I would throw out different scenarios to her. I walked my ASD child through being molested, being abused emotionally by a stepmother, her brother's arrest directly because he "knew" about the molestation but didn't know what to do - so he started acting out.... So, I am not saying I am super mom - far from it actually - considering that I have RAGING ADD - along with mild bipolar disorder, I think that I handle things as well as can be considered.I am sure that you - like most people - look at advise and take what applies and leave the rest behind. So, when I examine the sound advice that you have given me (and

YES I DO APPRECIATE IT!!!!), but when there are things that I know for a fact won't work due to circumstances that I can't change - then I guess maybe I need to just vent and getting frustrated and angry (because I am only human).I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to change - because I am willing. At the same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.I truly admire you - you really seem to have a handle on all of this - and that is amazing!!! But even when you have "the" answers, there are circumstances where you have 5-6 people who all have different diagnoses and different basic needs - those answers have to be modified, have to change - because I could technically work around Hope's issues, I could make everything mostly regimented, yet by doing so - not only are my

other kids needs not being met, I would be an exhausted nervous wreck, because then it becomes the other two kids acting up - well - you get the picture.I really don't want to be the source of any bad feelings, It truly is a testament to how much this group has helped me that I feel safe enough to just vent - un moderated - to you guys!!! Soemtimes there are things that seem so basic, so innate that "you" wonder why people just don't do it.... I have to look at the big picture and work inwards to the details - because the chaos has to subside, it just has to. I have been losing my temper and screaming - and I hate that!!! I lay awake crying at night because I realize how destructive words can be - and I rarely lose control -but this past month I am losing control a lot. My mom lives out here - but she all of a sudden decides that "her life is breaking apart into little pieces" and takes off a bunch of work. I adore my mom - she

is awesome -but she is one of those people who think that if everyone would just do things her way it would all be just fine - and she thinks that I am being lazy or stupid or whatever, because I haven't been able to do what she is able to do. So, she won't help or come over to give me 10 minutes of peace or anything. All of my friends (who were the smart ones lol) already got the heck outta dodge and left California. Hope's godmother - will take her for around a 1/2 day once or twice a month - so I can get things done, but that leaves me with Sara the Screamer and Molly who the more the screaming increases, the more she withdraws and gets very passive aggressive. Being in high school - she needs to have time to herself - and time with her friends, but I need her help - so there is another can of worms.I honestly don't know that there are any answers. But I sure am willing to look through and grab techniques that may work and utilize

them!!! I have been researching social stories to see how they may work for Hope - since what I did with my older daughter (before i had ever heard of such a thing) just makes Hope angry and tantrum - usually hurting me or someone else. She just won't listen at all. I keep on trying, but all it does is cause increased violence. I am sure it is my fault and I am doing something wrong. I recently had to tell the girls that they are to protect themselves - when Hope attacks them. I just know that someone here is going to be hurt badly - and I will end up in Jail or worse - it truly is that bad. I was trying just now to talk to hope because she wanted to go to the neighbors, but all she has done all day is scream and hurt everyone. She is tired. So, i said to her - that she and I needed to make a plan for her to be rested before she went over there, because she could hurt Sadie (a dog she loves), or scare our neighbors if

she went over there and got mean. Her response (10 minutes ago in the middle of me writing this email), was to kick molly and try to bite her in the face, to slap Sara acros sthe face, then when I grabbed her and tried to explain the whole deal to her she bit my chair swung at me - and then grabbed a little bookshelf Sara made and swung it against the wall - denting the wall and this is a rental. She has been screaming and yelling and trying to hurt people since I got online. She just told me that I don't care about her - told her sister to go die - and now she is screaming at the top of her lungs again. Why? Because I tried to explain to her how if she went to Sadie's right now, she will scare her and then maybe sadie wouldn't want to play anymore.I can't even get through a full sentence if the response isn't sure Hope go do that. This is willfull behavior. All any of us in this house can do is protect

ourselves from serious injury and for me to believe that I am the biggest failure as a mother in the entire world. I know services are supposed to make a difference - I really believed that they would - but thus far - nothing. My husband finally got a job saving us from bankruptcy and ensuring that we could get out of California and try to build a slower paced life for our family - and the chaos continues to increase.If you actually got through this congrats - I am not even sure I am making sense - the screaming has been unabated, and now Sara is screaming at the top of her lungs and Molly is screaming, plus Hope.I have to go and see how much blood is involved this time.jennifer Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen,I know you are finding this all tough but please

try to see that Hope is doing her best not to be autistic.>>Here is the kicker and why I refuse to believe that a good portion of this >>is in fact willfull. I just went to her IEP meeting - and guess what?? >>She is no longer aggressive at school - she CAN self regulate!!! <<It is *so* common for ASD kids to do the 'pretending to be normal' thing at school. But they use up every ounce of energy they have doing so that they just can't at home. It is physically and mentally exhausting for them. They have to have somewhere to let out all that pent-up emotion and that is somewhere they feel safe, ie at home. Believe me this happens over and over, it is not just Hope. That is how ASD is. With some it comes out as anger, with others it can be withdrawal. Schedule in 'downtime' after school - this may have to be 2 or more hours when no-one has any expectations of her. She is not expected to

interact with anyone (family or otherwise), but just gets to 'chill' in whatever way she finds most helpful. My son used to watch videos.When my husband gets home it can take a whole weekend before he is able to listen or talk to me.>>She has the language skills,<<Don't think that because she can talk that her speech and understanding are 'normal'. She will have on-going problems with receptive and expressive language, and receptive and expressive prosody. She will NOT have the same skills as other children her age. She will also be way behind in her emotional development - learning to recognise and correctly express her own emotions. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Answers Food Drink Q & A. Get the toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Life may not be the

party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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[Guest guest]

Thank you so much, things seem to be easing up a bit - I don't want to get my hopes up but the intensity seems to be going down a bit, which means that my energy and ability to deal with the outbursts are better. I am so grateful for this group - it is wonderful to be able to say what is going on for the most part without fear of being censored or having people be horrified - :)DantSolo@... wrote: In a message dated 06/20/2007 12:41:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, diegowench@... writes: I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic). I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a tizzy - but there aren't any options - I think that you can only do so much to keep things routine. And life is unpredictable...there will always be times when it will be necessary to do things differently, and if your schedule is too rigid, I feel it may be even more difficult

for people with autism to cope. Structure is vital, but not everything goes according to plan. <<< Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. >>> I have found that preparing my daughter for what is to come can be a double edged sword...sometimes it's fine for her to know what's coming. Other times, if she doesn't want to go where we are going and she will perseverate the entire way there, getting more and more anxious and worked up. <<I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to

change - because I am willing. At the same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.>>> You come off as someone very strong who is doing the best one can do in such a difficult situation. I LOVE SOMEONE WITH AUTISM See what's free at AOL.com. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jen. Do you think "behavior therapy" may work once you get to AR???? I didn't realize she was only 6......must have missed that one. You are doing an incredible job and I "Hope" and pray that once you move,,,,,,,,,,that enough stress leaves you and find happiness there. You deserve it. Keep on writing..............Your'e an awesome mom. RobinJen <diegowench@...> wrote: She is maxed out for her weight on Abilify - she also takes

Tenex and DVAPP. The meds aren't the problem (her psychiatrist agrees), it is her behavior - and not getting what she wants when she wants it. As far as a treatment facility - no - I don't think I could do that - not for a little 6 year old. It would absolutely kill me to have to do something like that. The doctors have been very specific -she does not have bipolar disorder, she DOES have adhd - but the stimulants just get her way too wound up - so that is out. They told me that she has classic regressive autism - because she lost all of her skills post DPT/MMR (more skills lost with each vaccination - although I wasn't able to put it all together until I learned more about it). and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Jen. I know my response to your incredible email is going to sound very "short and sweet"....but I'm making it short because you have enough on your plate..... But,,,,,,is Hope on meds? Your doctor who said her issues are not "bad enough" is wrong. Also,,,,,have you thought about putting her in a treatment center? I've heard about them here (WI),,,,where they stay and are basically monitored on EVERYTHING to see what's up. Hugs. RobinJen <diegowench > wrote: I don't have a problem with Hope being Autistic. I adore her - I truly do. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about Autism, and have been both her biggest fan and her biggest advocate.

What I am unable to do - is be all things to everyone. I know that she is capable of different behavior - because she has done it before! I cannot have three lives - caring for the needs of three girls who have completely opposite needs.I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic). I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a tizzy - but there aren't any options - I have turned these situations in my mind over and over - and there aren't other options. I don't have anyone here - so that I could leave early, and take care of the gas, and all of that before the day starts so it won't upset her. I rarely if ever take a lunch and being on a tight budget and exhausted at day end so I

don't make my own lunch to take, if I don't have cash to order with everyone else - I don't eat. I always try to stash hard candies in my purse because I am "pre diabetic" and hypoglycemic - but the kids get in my purse and take them - so when my sugar is way out of control I have no choice but to deviate from routine.It may sound as though I have lots of options, but really they just aren't there. My entire thing is that I KNOW what my daughter is capable of - and I know that there are times when the ADD issue with her shows its ugly face along with the mood swings and she acts out. At the end of each day when we do our behavior charts, we go to the calender, so that she can see what will happen the next day - ie - everyone has to go to Dr. 's office tomorrow for an appointment, Molly will pick you up from school and I will come and get all of you. You MUST get a snack before we leave because Mommy hasn't been paid yet, and I don't have

any money. When you throw a fit, I can't change the money situation and it isn't doing any good. Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. This is not autistic behavior - as most of it has started in the past year. When she was non verbal and couldn't go to day care and I had to take her into the office with me, yes she had violence issues, but they were not just mean like they are now. It is almost like she realizes that I truly don't have a lot of options, other than to not react but calmly either restrain her - which is horrible for her in a sensory way - but I have to protect myself and the other kids - or ignore her. I won't swat her butt - unless she runs out into the street - which she no longer does - we have ingrained the whole crossing the street thing into her.Honestly, I can appreciate much of what you are saying, i wouldn't put

it out there if I wasn't willing to try whatever I thought was going to work! What is difficult to convey via email is that a situation with a mom and support who has one or two children is completely different from being the wife of a merchant mariner, with four kids two ASD, two with severe ADHD and LD. Trying to be in control, and all things to all people, while trying to move cross country, having no way to get in touch with my husband and the only friends I have are out of state - well things get different. Truly the only constant in life is change, and I WAS able to teach my teenaged ASD daughter to be able to deal with it. Molly has severe low functioning Aspergers Syndrome, and while things do frequently get difficult for her, we role played and social storied (although I didn't know that there was such a thing) - It was a gut level thing with me - we called it the game of what if. Where I would throw out different scenarios to

her. I walked my ASD child through being molested, being abused emotionally by a stepmother, her brother's arrest directly because he "knew" about the molestation but didn't know what to do - so he started acting out.... So, I am not saying I am super mom - far from it actually - considering that I have RAGING ADD - along with mild bipolar disorder, I think that I handle things as well as can be considered.I am sure that you - like most people - look at advise and take what applies and leave the rest behind. So, when I examine the sound advice that you have given me (and YES I DO APPRECIATE IT!!!!), but when there are things that I know for a fact won't work due to circumstances that I can't change - then I guess maybe I need to just vent and getting frustrated and angry (because I am only human).I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to change - because I am willing. At the

same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.I truly admire you - you really seem to have a handle on all of this - and that is amazing!!! But even when you have "the" answers, there are circumstances where you have 5-6 people who all have different diagnoses and different basic needs - those answers have to be modified, have to change - because I could technically work around Hope's issues, I could make everything mostly regimented, yet by doing so - not only are my other kids needs not being met, I would be an exhausted nervous wreck, because then it becomes the other two kids acting up - well - you get the picture.I really don't want to be the source of any bad feelings, It truly is a testament to how much this group has helped me that I feel safe enough to just vent - un moderated - to you guys!!! Soemtimes there are things that

seem so basic, so innate that "you" wonder why people just don't do it.... I have to look at the big picture and work inwards to the details - because the chaos has to subside, it just has to. I have been losing my temper and screaming - and I hate that!!! I lay awake crying at night because I realize how destructive words can be - and I rarely lose control -but this past month I am losing control a lot. My mom lives out here - but she all of a sudden decides that "her life is breaking apart into little pieces" and takes off a bunch of work. I adore my mom - she is awesome -but she is one of those people who think that if everyone would just do things her way it would all be just fine - and she thinks that I am being lazy or stupid or whatever, because I haven't been able to do what she is able to do. So, she won't help or come over to give me 10 minutes of peace or anything. All of my friends (who were the smart ones lol) already

got the heck outta dodge and left California. Hope's godmother - will take her for around a 1/2 day once or twice a month - so I can get things done, but that leaves me with Sara the Screamer and Molly who the more the screaming increases, the more she withdraws and gets very passive aggressive. Being in high school - she needs to have time to herself - and time with her friends, but I need her help - so there is another can of worms.I honestly don't know that there are any answers. But I sure am willing to look through and grab techniques that may work and utilize them!!! I have been researching social stories to see how they may work for Hope - since what I did with my older daughter (before i had ever heard of such a thing) just makes Hope angry and tantrum - usually hurting me or someone else. She just won't listen at all. I keep on trying, but all it does is cause increased violence. I am sure it is my fault and I am

doing something wrong. I recently had to tell the girls that they are to protect themselves - when Hope attacks them. I just know that someone here is going to be hurt badly - and I will end up in Jail or worse - it truly is that bad. I was trying just now to talk to hope because she wanted to go to the neighbors, but all she has done all day is scream and hurt everyone. She is tired. So, i said to her - that she and I needed to make a plan for her to be rested before she went over there, because she could hurt Sadie (a dog she loves), or scare our neighbors if she went over there and got mean. Her response (10 minutes ago in the middle of me writing this email), was to kick molly and try to bite her in the face, to slap Sara acros sthe face, then when I grabbed her and tried to explain the whole deal to her she bit my chair swung at me - and then grabbed a little bookshelf Sara made and swung it against the wall - denting the wall

and this is a rental. She has been screaming and yelling and trying to hurt people since I got online. She just told me that I don't care about her - told her sister to go die - and now she is screaming at the top of her lungs again. Why? Because I tried to explain to her how if she went to Sadie's right now, she will scare her and then maybe sadie wouldn't want to play anymore.I can't even get through a full sentence if the response isn't sure Hope go do that. This is willfull behavior. All any of us in this house can do is protect ourselves from serious injury and for me to believe that I am the biggest failure as a mother in the entire world. I know services are supposed to make a difference - I really believed that they would - but thus far - nothing. My husband finally got a job saving us from bankruptcy and ensuring that we could get out of California and try to build a slower paced life for our family -

and the chaos continues to increase.If you actually got through this congrats - I am not even sure I am making sense - the screaming has been unabated, and now Sara is screaming at the top of her lungs and Molly is screaming, plus Hope.I have to go and see how much blood is involved this time.jennifer Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen,I know you are finding this all tough but please try to see that Hope is doing her best not to be autistic.>>Here is the kicker and why I refuse to believe that a good portion of this >>is in fact willfull. I just went to her IEP meeting - and guess what?? >>She is no longer aggressive at school - she CAN self regulate!!! <<It is *so* common for ASD kids to do the 'pretending to be normal'

thing at school. But they use up every ounce of energy they have doing so that they just can't at home. It is physically and mentally exhausting for them. They have to have somewhere to let out all that pent-up emotion and that is somewhere they feel safe, ie at home. Believe me this happens over and over, it is not just Hope. That is how ASD is. With some it comes out as anger, with others it can be withdrawal. Schedule in 'downtime' after school - this may have to be 2 or more hours when no-one has any expectations of her. She is not expected to interact with anyone (family or otherwise), but just gets to 'chill' in whatever way she finds most helpful. My son used to watch videos.When my husband gets home it can take a whole weekend before he is able to listen or talk to me.>>She has the language skills,<<Don't think that because she can talk that her speech and understanding are

'normal'. She will have on-going problems with receptive and expressive language, and receptive and expressive prosody. She will NOT have the same skills as other children her age. She will also be way behind in her emotional development - learning to recognise and correctly express her own emotions. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Answers Food Drink Q & A. Get the toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen. Do you think "behavior therapy" may work once you get to AR???? I didn't realize she was only 6......must have missed that one. You are doing an incredible job and I "Hope" and pray that once you move,,,,,,,,,,that enough stress leaves you and find happiness there. You deserve it. Keep on writing..............Your'e an awesome mom. RobinJen <diegowench@...> wrote: She is maxed out for her weight on Abilify - she also takes

Tenex and DVAPP. The meds aren't the problem (her psychiatrist agrees), it is her behavior - and not getting what she wants when she wants it. As far as a treatment facility - no - I don't think I could do that - not for a little 6 year old. It would absolutely kill me to have to do something like that. The doctors have been very specific -she does not have bipolar disorder, she DOES have adhd - but the stimulants just get her way too wound up - so that is out. They told me that she has classic regressive autism - because she lost all of her skills post DPT/MMR (more skills lost with each vaccination - although I wasn't able to put it all together until I learned more about it). and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Jen. I know my response to your incredible email is going to sound very "short and sweet"....but I'm making it short because you have enough on your plate..... But,,,,,,is Hope on meds? Your doctor who said her issues are not "bad enough" is wrong. Also,,,,,have you thought about putting her in a treatment center? I've heard about them here (WI),,,,where they stay and are basically monitored on EVERYTHING to see what's up. Hugs. RobinJen <diegowench > wrote: I don't have a problem with Hope being Autistic. I adore her - I truly do. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about Autism, and have been both her biggest fan and her biggest advocate.

What I am unable to do - is be all things to everyone. I know that she is capable of different behavior - because she has done it before! I cannot have three lives - caring for the needs of three girls who have completely opposite needs.I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic). I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a tizzy - but there aren't any options - I have turned these situations in my mind over and over - and there aren't other options. I don't have anyone here - so that I could leave early, and take care of the gas, and all of that before the day starts so it won't upset her. I rarely if ever take a lunch and being on a tight budget and exhausted at day end so I

don't make my own lunch to take, if I don't have cash to order with everyone else - I don't eat. I always try to stash hard candies in my purse because I am "pre diabetic" and hypoglycemic - but the kids get in my purse and take them - so when my sugar is way out of control I have no choice but to deviate from routine.It may sound as though I have lots of options, but really they just aren't there. My entire thing is that I KNOW what my daughter is capable of - and I know that there are times when the ADD issue with her shows its ugly face along with the mood swings and she acts out. At the end of each day when we do our behavior charts, we go to the calender, so that she can see what will happen the next day - ie - everyone has to go to Dr. 's office tomorrow for an appointment, Molly will pick you up from school and I will come and get all of you. You MUST get a snack before we leave because Mommy hasn't been paid yet, and I don't have

any money. When you throw a fit, I can't change the money situation and it isn't doing any good. Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. This is not autistic behavior - as most of it has started in the past year. When she was non verbal and couldn't go to day care and I had to take her into the office with me, yes she had violence issues, but they were not just mean like they are now. It is almost like she realizes that I truly don't have a lot of options, other than to not react but calmly either restrain her - which is horrible for her in a sensory way - but I have to protect myself and the other kids - or ignore her. I won't swat her butt - unless she runs out into the street - which she no longer does - we have ingrained the whole crossing the street thing into her.Honestly, I can appreciate much of what you are saying, i wouldn't put

it out there if I wasn't willing to try whatever I thought was going to work! What is difficult to convey via email is that a situation with a mom and support who has one or two children is completely different from being the wife of a merchant mariner, with four kids two ASD, two with severe ADHD and LD. Trying to be in control, and all things to all people, while trying to move cross country, having no way to get in touch with my husband and the only friends I have are out of state - well things get different. Truly the only constant in life is change, and I WAS able to teach my teenaged ASD daughter to be able to deal with it. Molly has severe low functioning Aspergers Syndrome, and while things do frequently get difficult for her, we role played and social storied (although I didn't know that there was such a thing) - It was a gut level thing with me - we called it the game of what if. Where I would throw out different scenarios to

her. I walked my ASD child through being molested, being abused emotionally by a stepmother, her brother's arrest directly because he "knew" about the molestation but didn't know what to do - so he started acting out.... So, I am not saying I am super mom - far from it actually - considering that I have RAGING ADD - along with mild bipolar disorder, I think that I handle things as well as can be considered.I am sure that you - like most people - look at advise and take what applies and leave the rest behind. So, when I examine the sound advice that you have given me (and YES I DO APPRECIATE IT!!!!), but when there are things that I know for a fact won't work due to circumstances that I can't change - then I guess maybe I need to just vent and getting frustrated and angry (because I am only human).I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to change - because I am willing. At the

same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.I truly admire you - you really seem to have a handle on all of this - and that is amazing!!! But even when you have "the" answers, there are circumstances where you have 5-6 people who all have different diagnoses and different basic needs - those answers have to be modified, have to change - because I could technically work around Hope's issues, I could make everything mostly regimented, yet by doing so - not only are my other kids needs not being met, I would be an exhausted nervous wreck, because then it becomes the other two kids acting up - well - you get the picture.I really don't want to be the source of any bad feelings, It truly is a testament to how much this group has helped me that I feel safe enough to just vent - un moderated - to you guys!!! Soemtimes there are things that

seem so basic, so innate that "you" wonder why people just don't do it.... I have to look at the big picture and work inwards to the details - because the chaos has to subside, it just has to. I have been losing my temper and screaming - and I hate that!!! I lay awake crying at night because I realize how destructive words can be - and I rarely lose control -but this past month I am losing control a lot. My mom lives out here - but she all of a sudden decides that "her life is breaking apart into little pieces" and takes off a bunch of work. I adore my mom - she is awesome -but she is one of those people who think that if everyone would just do things her way it would all be just fine - and she thinks that I am being lazy or stupid or whatever, because I haven't been able to do what she is able to do. So, she won't help or come over to give me 10 minutes of peace or anything. All of my friends (who were the smart ones lol) already

got the heck outta dodge and left California. Hope's godmother - will take her for around a 1/2 day once or twice a month - so I can get things done, but that leaves me with Sara the Screamer and Molly who the more the screaming increases, the more she withdraws and gets very passive aggressive. Being in high school - she needs to have time to herself - and time with her friends, but I need her help - so there is another can of worms.I honestly don't know that there are any answers. But I sure am willing to look through and grab techniques that may work and utilize them!!! I have been researching social stories to see how they may work for Hope - since what I did with my older daughter (before i had ever heard of such a thing) just makes Hope angry and tantrum - usually hurting me or someone else. She just won't listen at all. I keep on trying, but all it does is cause increased violence. I am sure it is my fault and I am

doing something wrong. I recently had to tell the girls that they are to protect themselves - when Hope attacks them. I just know that someone here is going to be hurt badly - and I will end up in Jail or worse - it truly is that bad. I was trying just now to talk to hope because she wanted to go to the neighbors, but all she has done all day is scream and hurt everyone. She is tired. So, i said to her - that she and I needed to make a plan for her to be rested before she went over there, because she could hurt Sadie (a dog she loves), or scare our neighbors if she went over there and got mean. Her response (10 minutes ago in the middle of me writing this email), was to kick molly and try to bite her in the face, to slap Sara acros sthe face, then when I grabbed her and tried to explain the whole deal to her she bit my chair swung at me - and then grabbed a little bookshelf Sara made and swung it against the wall - denting the wall

and this is a rental. She has been screaming and yelling and trying to hurt people since I got online. She just told me that I don't care about her - told her sister to go die - and now she is screaming at the top of her lungs again. Why? Because I tried to explain to her how if she went to Sadie's right now, she will scare her and then maybe sadie wouldn't want to play anymore.I can't even get through a full sentence if the response isn't sure Hope go do that. This is willfull behavior. All any of us in this house can do is protect ourselves from serious injury and for me to believe that I am the biggest failure as a mother in the entire world. I know services are supposed to make a difference - I really believed that they would - but thus far - nothing. My husband finally got a job saving us from bankruptcy and ensuring that we could get out of California and try to build a slower paced life for our family -

and the chaos continues to increase.If you actually got through this congrats - I am not even sure I am making sense - the screaming has been unabated, and now Sara is screaming at the top of her lungs and Molly is screaming, plus Hope.I have to go and see how much blood is involved this time.jennifer Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen,I know you are finding this all tough but please try to see that Hope is doing her best not to be autistic.>>Here is the kicker and why I refuse to believe that a good portion of this >>is in fact willfull. I just went to her IEP meeting - and guess what?? >>She is no longer aggressive at school - she CAN self regulate!!! <<It is *so* common for ASD kids to do the 'pretending to be normal'

thing at school. But they use up every ounce of energy they have doing so that they just can't at home. It is physically and mentally exhausting for them. They have to have somewhere to let out all that pent-up emotion and that is somewhere they feel safe, ie at home. Believe me this happens over and over, it is not just Hope. That is how ASD is. With some it comes out as anger, with others it can be withdrawal. Schedule in 'downtime' after school - this may have to be 2 or more hours when no-one has any expectations of her. She is not expected to interact with anyone (family or otherwise), but just gets to 'chill' in whatever way she finds most helpful. My son used to watch videos.When my husband gets home it can take a whole weekend before he is able to listen or talk to me.>>She has the language skills,<<Don't think that because she can talk that her speech and understanding are

'normal'. She will have on-going problems with receptive and expressive language, and receptive and expressive prosody. She will NOT have the same skills as other children her age. She will also be way behind in her emotional development - learning to recognise and correctly express her own emotions. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Answers Food Drink Q & A. Get the toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

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We did one year of ABA last year, and it helped tremendously - and yes, I will be actively looking for someone to do in home ABA as soon as we get settled.I do remember the ABA doc telling me that it is not uncommon for kids to lose the skills they gain during aba when things get different - so - I guess I really didn't want to face it - she and I worked so hard for each little victory.Jen and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs@...> wrote: Hi Jen. Do you think "behavior therapy" may work once you

get to AR???? I didn't realize she was only 6......must have missed that one. You are doing an incredible job and I "Hope" and pray that once you move,,,,,,,,,,that enough stress leaves you and find happiness there. You deserve it. Keep on writing..............Your'e an awesome mom. RobinJen <diegowench > wrote: She is maxed out for her weight on Abilify - she also takes Tenex and DVAPP. The meds aren't the problem (her psychiatrist agrees), it is her behavior - and not getting what she wants when she wants it. As far as a treatment facility - no - I don't think I could do that - not for a little 6 year old. It would absolutely kill me to have to do

something like that. The doctors have been very specific -she does not have bipolar disorder, she DOES have adhd - but the stimulants just get her way too wound up - so that is out. They told me that she has classic regressive autism - because she lost all of her skills post DPT/MMR (more skills lost with each vaccination - although I wasn't able to put it all together until I learned more about it). and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Jen. I know my response to your incredible email is going to sound very "short and sweet"....but I'm making it short because you have enough on your plate..... But,,,,,,is Hope on meds? Your doctor who said her issues are not "bad enough"

is wrong. Also,,,,,have you thought about putting her in a treatment center? I've heard about them here (WI),,,,where they stay and are basically monitored on EVERYTHING to see what's up. Hugs. RobinJen <diegowench > wrote: I don't have a problem with Hope being Autistic. I adore her - I truly do. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about Autism, and have been both her biggest fan and her biggest advocate. What I am unable to do - is be all things to everyone. I know that she is capable of different behavior - because she has done it before! I cannot have three lives - caring for the needs of three girls who have completely opposite needs.I also cannot make everything the same - routine - because there is only one

me. There are days when I haven't eaten all day - I need to pick up the girls, then maybe stop for gas (because I am on empty, and desperately need to get my sugar up because I am hypoglycemic). I *know* that these deviations from routine throw her into a tizzy - but there aren't any options - I have turned these situations in my mind over and over - and there aren't other options. I don't have anyone here - so that I could leave early, and take care of the gas, and all of that before the day starts so it won't upset her. I rarely if ever take a lunch and being on a tight budget and exhausted at day end so I don't make my own lunch to take, if I don't have cash to order with everyone else - I don't eat. I always try to stash hard candies in my purse because I am "pre diabetic" and hypoglycemic - but the kids get in my purse and take them - so when my sugar is way out of control I have no choice but to deviate from routine.It may

sound as though I have lots of options, but really they just aren't there. My entire thing is that I KNOW what my daughter is capable of - and I know that there are times when the ADD issue with her shows its ugly face along with the mood swings and she acts out. At the end of each day when we do our behavior charts, we go to the calender, so that she can see what will happen the next day - ie - everyone has to go to Dr. 's office tomorrow for an appointment, Molly will pick you up from school and I will come and get all of you. You MUST get a snack before we leave because Mommy hasn't been paid yet, and I don't have any money. When you throw a fit, I can't change the money situation and it isn't doing any good. Frequently just trying to tell her what to expect results in my being bitten, kicked or told that she hopes I die in my sleep. This is not autistic behavior - as most of it has started in the past year. When she was

non verbal and couldn't go to day care and I had to take her into the office with me, yes she had violence issues, but they were not just mean like they are now. It is almost like she realizes that I truly don't have a lot of options, other than to not react but calmly either restrain her - which is horrible for her in a sensory way - but I have to protect myself and the other kids - or ignore her. I won't swat her butt - unless she runs out into the street - which she no longer does - we have ingrained the whole crossing the street thing into her.Honestly, I can appreciate much of what you are saying, i wouldn't put it out there if I wasn't willing to try whatever I thought was going to work! What is difficult to convey via email is that a situation with a mom and support who has one or two children is completely different from being the wife of a merchant mariner, with four kids two ASD, two with severe ADHD and LD. Trying to be in

control, and all things to all people, while trying to move cross country, having no way to get in touch with my husband and the only friends I have are out of state - well things get different. Truly the only constant in life is change, and I WAS able to teach my teenaged ASD daughter to be able to deal with it. Molly has severe low functioning Aspergers Syndrome, and while things do frequently get difficult for her, we role played and social storied (although I didn't know that there was such a thing) - It was a gut level thing with me - we called it the game of what if. Where I would throw out different scenarios to her. I walked my ASD child through being molested, being abused emotionally by a stepmother, her brother's arrest directly because he "knew" about the molestation but didn't know what to do - so he started acting out.... So, I am not saying I am super mom - far from it actually - considering that I have RAGING ADD - along

with mild bipolar disorder, I think that I handle things as well as can be considered.I am sure that you - like most people - look at advise and take what applies and leave the rest behind. So, when I examine the sound advice that you have given me (and YES I DO APPRECIATE IT!!!!), but when there are things that I know for a fact won't work due to circumstances that I can't change - then I guess maybe I need to just vent and getting frustrated and angry (because I am only human).I truly hope that I don't come off as being a whiner - or just complaining without being willing to change - because I am willing. At the same time, I cannot make something happen when it is beyond my control - and recognizing that something is beyond my control - I think is half the battle.I truly admire you - you really seem to have a handle on all of this - and that is amazing!!! But even when you have "the" answers, there are circumstances where

you have 5-6 people who all have different diagnoses and different basic needs - those answers have to be modified, have to change - because I could technically work around Hope's issues, I could make everything mostly regimented, yet by doing so - not only are my other kids needs not being met, I would be an exhausted nervous wreck, because then it becomes the other two kids acting up - well - you get the picture.I really don't want to be the source of any bad feelings, It truly is a testament to how much this group has helped me that I feel safe enough to just vent - un moderated - to you guys!!! Soemtimes there are things that seem so basic, so innate that "you" wonder why people just don't do it.... I have to look at the big picture and work inwards to the details - because the chaos has to subside, it just has to. I have been losing my temper and screaming - and I hate that!!! I lay awake crying at night because I realize how

destructive words can be - and I rarely lose control -but this past month I am losing control a lot. My mom lives out here - but she all of a sudden decides that "her life is breaking apart into little pieces" and takes off a bunch of work. I adore my mom - she is awesome -but she is one of those people who think that if everyone would just do things her way it would all be just fine - and she thinks that I am being lazy or stupid or whatever, because I haven't been able to do what she is able to do. So, she won't help or come over to give me 10 minutes of peace or anything. All of my friends (who were the smart ones lol) already got the heck outta dodge and left California. Hope's godmother - will take her for around a 1/2 day once or twice a month - so I can get things done, but that leaves me with Sara the Screamer and Molly who the more the screaming increases, the more she withdraws and gets very passive aggressive. Being in high

school - she needs to have time to herself - and time with her friends, but I need her help - so there is another can of worms.I honestly don't know that there are any answers. But I sure am willing to look through and grab techniques that may work and utilize them!!! I have been researching social stories to see how they may work for Hope - since what I did with my older daughter (before i had ever heard of such a thing) just makes Hope angry and tantrum - usually hurting me or someone else. She just won't listen at all. I keep on trying, but all it does is cause increased violence. I am sure it is my fault and I am doing something wrong. I recently had to tell the girls that they are to protect themselves - when Hope attacks them. I just know that someone here is going to be hurt badly - and I will end up in Jail or worse - it truly is that bad. I was trying just now to talk to hope because she wanted to go to the

neighbors, but all she has done all day is scream and hurt everyone. She is tired. So, i said to her - that she and I needed to make a plan for her to be rested before she went over there, because she could hurt Sadie (a dog she loves), or scare our neighbors if she went over there and got mean. Her response (10 minutes ago in the middle of me writing this email), was to kick molly and try to bite her in the face, to slap Sara acros sthe face, then when I grabbed her and tried to explain the whole deal to her she bit my chair swung at me - and then grabbed a little bookshelf Sara made and swung it against the wall - denting the wall and this is a rental. She has been screaming and yelling and trying to hurt people since I got online. She just told me that I don't care about her - told her sister to go die - and now she is screaming at the top of her lungs again. Why? Because I tried to explain to her how if she went to

Sadie's right now, she will scare her and then maybe sadie wouldn't want to play anymore.I can't even get through a full sentence if the response isn't sure Hope go do that. This is willfull behavior. All any of us in this house can do is protect ourselves from serious injury and for me to believe that I am the biggest failure as a mother in the entire world. I know services are supposed to make a difference - I really believed that they would - but thus far - nothing. My husband finally got a job saving us from bankruptcy and ensuring that we could get out of California and try to build a slower paced life for our family - and the chaos continues to increase.If you actually got through this congrats - I am not even sure I am making sense - the screaming has been unabated, and now Sara is screaming at the top of her lungs and Molly is screaming, plus Hope.I have to go and see how much blood is involved this

time.jennifer Rowell <nancyrowellfamily (DOT) plus.com> wrote: Jen,I know you are finding this all tough but please try to see that Hope is doing her best not to be autistic.>>Here is the kicker and why I refuse to believe that a good portion of this >>is in fact willfull. I just went to her IEP meeting - and guess what?? >>She is no longer aggressive at school - she CAN self regulate!!! <<It is *so* common for ASD kids to do the 'pretending to be normal' thing at school. But they use up every ounce of energy they have doing so that they just can't at home. It is physically and mentally exhausting for them. They have to have somewhere to let out all that pent-up emotion and that is somewhere they feel safe, ie at home. Believe me

this happens over and over, it is not just Hope. That is how ASD is. With some it comes out as anger, with others it can be withdrawal. Schedule in 'downtime' after school - this may have to be 2 or more hours when no-one has any expectations of her. She is not expected to interact with anyone (family or otherwise), but just gets to 'chill' in whatever way she finds most helpful. My son used to watch videos.When my husband gets home it can take a whole weekend before he is able to listen or talk to me.>>She has the language skills,<<Don't think that because she can talk that her speech and understanding are 'normal'. She will have on-going problems with receptive and expressive language, and receptive and expressive prosody. She will NOT have the same skills as other children her age. She will also be way behind in her emotional development - learning to recognise and correctly express her own

emotions. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Answers Food Drink Q & A. Get the toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance! Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. Fussy?

Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us. Life may not be the party we asked for - but while we're here, let's dance!

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us.