Re: Okay, the Dr. really thinks it's bipolar--confused!

[Guest guest]

Hi Dina,

My son Tommy, now 13, has been diagnosed with AD/HD, OCD, Mood disorder NOS

and a few other things....he is on multiple medications.

He currently takes 80 mg. of Prozac. Often kids who have OCD do need a much

higher dose of an SSRI to treat the OCD than is needed for depression. Our

psychiatrist has been wonderful over the years, being very conservative with

medication changes. He usually will try a higher does of a medication that has

worked in the past rather than drastically change the entire regimen quickly.

Has Mikayla had the benefit of CBT and ERP along with the medication? Meds in

the class that Risperdal and Xyprexa are in are often used to treat Bipolar and

usually work more quickly than Lithoum, which needs to work up to a blood level,

and which will require regular blood tests to monitor the blood levels of the

drug as well other things.

Has Mikayla had the benefit of CBT and ERP as well as the medications? Often

the combination of therapy and medciation will work wonders for our kids.

CIndy in Southeastern PA

dina_n_jones <dina.n.jones@...> wrote:

I posted recently about my OCD daughter, Mikayla, and how she's having

a tough time right now. She started having severe problems suddenly 3

1/2 yrs. ago and has been on Celexa, which didn't do much, and now a

year of Prozac, which did wonders. She was completely symptom free

from last June until April this year. Then the vomit thoughts crept

back in and have been constant for the past month or 6 weeks. She

upped her Prozac from 30 to 40 mgs. and added Risperdal at 1 mg. It

hasn't done a thing, anxiety is still off the charts. She's crying,

following me around the house saying, " It's different this time--I'm

really sick! " and is not functioning. She went to school, but was

uncomfortable the whole time. After 3 weeks of the Riperdal, I called

the Dr. to ask about upping the Prozac again, or to switch SSRI's--do

something! So, she said that she's been thinking about it and thinks

Mikayla is bipolar. So, she wanted to start her on Lithium to see if

it helps and took her off the Risperdal. That was Monday. Here it is

Friday and Mikayla's in complete distress, so I called her back. She

added Zyprexa, which has helped Mikayla in the past when she was

getting on the Prozac and said again that we just need to wait until

the Lithium takes effect and that she probably won't need the Prozac

because it's bipolar. I'm so confused! We have an appt. Monday

again, but it sounds to me like she is basing this whole bipolar

diagnosis on the fact that she went through a med. change last spring

from the Celexa to Prozac and now it's spring again and she's having a

hard time so it must be cyclical. I guess what I'm afraid will happen

is that she will have a positive reponse to the Zyprexa/Prozac combo

and that the pdoc will think it's the Lithium. I looked at multiple

symptom lists of bipolar in children and she doesn't fit any of it

except for the cyclical part and " racing thoughts " because she does

have constant thoughts about vomiting.

I guess my question is this: Does anyone have a child with bipolar

and OCD and how was it diagnosed? I'm not " afraid " of the bipolar

label, I just don't want to waste time trying to treat something that

she doesn't have while watching her suffer.

Thanks all!

Dina

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Dina,

My daughter has been diagnosed with both.She was actually diagnosed at age 6

by several local doctors and the hospital I had to place her in for a month,

also saw her cycling. Than I received differnt diagnosis's by other doctors I

took her too. Finally I had enough and took her to Ma General Hospital, and

also had her evaluated at the CT Children's Med CTR, where they have a team

approach, they do cognitive testing,IQ testing as well as interviews which last

4 hours at a time. they literally ask hundreds of questions. You also do tons

and tons of paperwork, like I've never seen. These people cover every aspect

possible.

She was diagnosed by a neuropsychologist, and professor of pediatric bipolar

disorder also.

My daughter does the crying and vomitting thing also, following me all over.I

love her to death, but she drives me NUTS!

Hope this helps

Hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

Joye wrote:

>

> Hi Dina,

>

> My son Tommy, now 13, has been diagnosed with AD/HD, OCD, Mood

> disorder NOS and a few other things....he is on multiple medications.

> He currently takes 80 mg. of Prozac. Often kids who have OCD do need a

> much higher dose of an SSRI to treat the OCD than is needed for

> depression. Our psychiatrist has been wonderful over the years, being

> very conservative with medication changes. He usually will try a

> higher does of a medication that has worked in the past rather than

> drastically change the entire regimen quickly. Has Mikayla had the

> benefit of CBT and ERP along with the medication? Meds in the class

> that Risperdal and Xyprexa are in are often used to treat Bipolar and

> usually work more quickly than Lithoum, which needs to work up to a

> blood level, and which will require regular blood tests to monitor the

> blood levels of the drug as well other things.

>

> Has Mikayla had the benefit of CBT and ERP as well as the medications?

> Often the combination of therapy and medciation will work wonders for

> our kids.

>

> CIndy in Southeastern PA

>

> Thanks . I wish she would want to increase the Prozac, that

> would make sense to me. She hasn't had ERP because she responded so

> wonderfully to the Prozac that there was nothing to work on.

>

> Dina

>

[Guest guest]

Just thought I'd update after my " distress " post on Friday. Mikayla

started 2.5 mgs. of Zyprexa on Friday because her anxiety was out of

control. She was able to eat on Saturday, still distressed, but

eating. Sunday was bad as well, and then today she had a great day.

It's day 4 of the Zyprexa. She was her usual charming, chatty self,

wondering if we could go to the store and buy flip flops for her. I

looked rather stunned at her and said, " Sure " . She said, " You're so

nice, you're the nicest mom in the world! " I had visions of Friday when

she was crying at me as I refused to leave her room until she had a

protein drink because she couldn't eat anything. It's so strange how

this medication can just morph them back into the child they should be.

I'm happy for the reprieve.

Dina

[Guest guest]

Hi Dina, great news!!! I'm happy for your " reprieve " and that she's

feeling better too! It is amazing when you find a medication that

works so well, and that didn't take too long to take effect either!

Bet this lasts too! (cross fingers!)

>

> Just thought I'd update after my " distress " post on Friday.

Mikayla

> started 2.5 mgs. of Zyprexa on Friday because her anxiety was out

of

> control. She was able to eat on Saturday, still distressed, but

> eating. Sunday was bad as well, and then today she had a great

day.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>

> Hi Dina, great news!!! I'm happy for your " reprieve " and that she's

> feeling better too! It is amazing when you find a medication that

> works so well, and that didn't take too long to take effect either!

> Bet this lasts too! (cross fingers!)

>

> Thanks, Chris. We are hoping. Months ago, I signed her up for a 1

> day camp today. She said she wanted to go, so I sent her! I hope

> she's having a good time. We are leaving on vacation tomorrow morning

> and I'm supposed to be packing everyone, but I'm distracted because

> I'm stressed about her. I'll check back with you all in a week! Dina

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dina ~

First I want to say I'm so happy the zyprexa seems to be working!

I hope you are all able to enjoy your vacation - goodness knows

every one of us on this board could use one

Second, I wanted to thank you. Last May I posted for the first

time (under a borrowed ID - momtoladybugg - because I didn't think

I'd be dealing with this long enough to sign up for my own account.

HA!) about my then 7 yr old who had quit eating because of his

vomit/diarrhea obsession. We were days away from a feeding tube,

newly diagnosed and I was pregnant with my 3rd. I was absolutely

devastated, desperate and depressed. You responded with your story

about Mikayla and I bawled and bawled reading your post, just so

relieved someone knew EXACTLY what I was going through. We've been

enjoying a nice reprieve over the last year (although it's been

creeping back since school got out!) but what a journey it's been!

Anyway, a very belated " thank you!! " from me.

THIRD (finally huh?) I just have a comment about the

whole " cyclical " thing... could it just be that this time of year

triggers some memory with the OCD? I know Jayden (my ocder) has a

horrible time every year at anytime that he remembers his OCD being

bad. For example he gets worse at Christmas because when he was in

preschool (4 yrs ago!) he got vomited on during a christmas play and

then was vomiting himself the next week and that was the first major

triggering event with his OCD. So he associates Christmas with

getting sick (poor kid!) and that makes the OCD flare up. Also now

Easter, because his next major trigger was eating a sugar free

chocolate easter egg and getting diarrhea. so this year he had a

horrible time for the weeks surrounding Easter because that reminds

him of the last time he was sick. So I guess you could call

that " cyclical " , because it flares up at regular times during the

year, but I think it's more a thought association thing that a sign

of bipolar. Kind of how people mourn deceased loved ones on their

bdays and the anniversaries of their death. If someone gets

depressed every year near their dead husband's bday does that mean

they are bipolar? NO!

Anyway, maybe it's different for your daughter, but I've been

keeping up with your posts and nothing you've said would make me

think bipolar, but what do I know? One of the psychologists

Jayden saw in the midst of his horrible spell last year did say that

a LOT of dr's are very quick to give a bipolar diagnosis these

days... maybe it's worth a 2nd opinion?

Take care!

le

[Guest guest]

My son is the same way with his OCD. It always gets worse at times

that remind him of other bad times he has struggled with OCD. He

starts worrying about it before the time even gets here; his

psychologist said he is worrying about worrying. If these " cyclical

occurrences " are connected to times of bad memories (start of school,

start of summer, holidays, going to a particular place, etc.) of

course they will seem cyclical, but as le points out, this may

have more to do with old issues/memories. My son is already starting

to worry about school starting again (and it doesn't start until the

middle of August) just because his worst episodes were during that

time and he felt trapped at school when it was happening. All heck

breaks loose around here once the " back to school " commercials start

up in mid-July!!!!

>

> Hi Dina ~

> First I want to say I'm so happy the zyprexa seems to be

working!

> I hope you are all able to enjoy your vacation - goodness knows

> every one of us on this board could use one

> Second, I wanted to thank you. Last May I posted for the first

> time (under a borrowed ID - momtoladybugg - because I didn't think

> I'd be dealing with this long enough to sign up for my own

account.

> HA!) about my then 7 yr old who had quit eating because of his

> vomit/diarrhea obsession. We were days away from a feeding tube,

> newly diagnosed and I was pregnant with my 3rd. I was absolutely

> devastated, desperate and depressed. You responded with your

story

> about Mikayla and I bawled and bawled reading your post, just so

> relieved someone knew EXACTLY what I was going through. We've been

> enjoying a nice reprieve over the last year (although it's been

> creeping back since school got out!) but what a journey it's been!

> Anyway, a very belated " thank you!! " from me.

> THIRD (finally huh?) I just have a comment about the

> whole " cyclical " thing... could it just be that this time of year

> triggers some memory with the OCD? I know Jayden (my ocder) has a

> horrible time every year at anytime that he remembers his OCD being

> bad. For example he gets worse at Christmas because when he was in

> preschool (4 yrs ago!) he got vomited on during a christmas play

and

> then was vomiting himself the next week and that was the first

major

> triggering event with his OCD. So he associates Christmas with

> getting sick (poor kid!) and that makes the OCD flare up. Also now

> Easter, because his next major trigger was eating a sugar free

> chocolate easter egg and getting diarrhea. so this year he had a

> horrible time for the weeks surrounding Easter because that reminds

> him of the last time he was sick. So I guess you could call

> that " cyclical " , because it flares up at regular times during the

> year, but I think it's more a thought association thing that a

sign

> of bipolar. Kind of how people mourn deceased loved ones on their

> bdays and the anniversaries of their death. If someone gets

> depressed every year near their dead husband's bday does that mean

> they are bipolar? NO!

> Anyway, maybe it's different for your daughter, but I've been

> keeping up with your posts and nothing you've said would make me

> think bipolar, but what do I know? One of the psychologists

> Jayden saw in the midst of his horrible spell last year did say

that

> a LOT of dr's are very quick to give a bipolar diagnosis these

> days... maybe it's worth a 2nd opinion?

>

> Take care!

> le

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much, le! That was so nice to hear! (Not that your son

has the vomit/diarrhea thoughts, of course!) What turned him around and

started him eating? Did he start therapy or meds?

Well, we are back from a week long vacation and Mikayla did great! The

Zyprexa has been on board for a week and a half and she's eating and

already gained 8 lbs. She is still having the bad thoughts, but she's

able to function and eat with them. We are titrating up the Prozac from

30-50 mgs. and that's only been a week, so we'll have to leave her on

the Zyprexa for the summer. It was such a relief to be able to enjoy

our vacation. Just a few days before we thought we'd have to

hospitalize her again, she was crying and following me around the house

talking her thoughts outloud and wanting continual reassurance (which I

wouldn't give, of course). We also found out she was praying in her

head about every 3 minutes and we told her to stop except for once in

the morning and once at night. She is a strong girl and really tries

hard to do what we ask because she wants so much to get better. She

said the first 2 days of " no praying " were very hard, but that it's

easier now. I still feel terrible that she's thinking about vomiting

constantly, but she actually swam in the hotel pool, played with her

cousins and tie-dyed a shirt! What a great relief to have this small

respite. In the meantime, we are still in a quandry about her pdoc

wanting to call her bipolar. My DH called the 2 other pdocs on our

insurance that were accepting new patients and we didn't like either one

of them on the phone. I'm currently really frustrated about our great

medical benefits and horrible mental health benefits. I guess my

current thinking is to wait out the Prozac change and see if there's an

improvement like before. That will help me better understand what's

going on.

Okay, I've got 300 messages to go check--yowza!

Dina

[Guest guest]

Dina, I am glad she is doing better. Was it your pdoc that wanted to started

Lithium, and if so, did you do that? I am glad the Zyprexa is helping, but it

is the same family as Risperdal and Abilify, so I don't think it helps with

diagnosis. Sometimes one helps when another one doesn't from the same family of

drugs. My daughter did really badly on Seroquel. She didn't get out of bed for

days, but she did well on Risperdal eventually. At first she had panic

attacks though while we were getting her higher on her dose. Now she is doing

great

on the combo on Zoloft, Abilify and Risperdal. Good luck to you and your

daughter. Kim

In a message dated 6/28/2006 1:06:20 AM Central Standard Time,

dina.n.jones@... writes:

The

Zyprexa has been on board for a week and a half and she's eating and

already gained 8 lbs. She is still having the bad thoughts, but she's

able to function and eat with them.