Re: New here and trying to figure things out..

[Guest guest]

Hi Marci,

My son and daughter both also have only the bad thoughts, no compulsions.

They say they need to " confess " because they feel so badly about the thoughts -

obviously it is not something they truly care to think about! That is a classic

symptom of OCD. My son has officially been diagnosed with OCD and generalized

anxiety disorder. I have not had my daughter ever tested or seen, but can see

it all coming on.

I love to talk with other parents but hate typing! If you want to call me,

I'm at 901-837-9741 and I can tell you what has worked really well for us -

nothing weird - just lengthy to type!

This support group is great. I've learned a whole lot here.

Ward

" marci.momofcarter " <marci@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm new to this board and still trying to figure out how this board works as

well as trying to

figure out my 5 year old son, . was recently diagnosed with

Tourette's, but

his tics are mild at this point (mostly throat clearing types of things), what

seems to

distress him most are his OC tendencies. A behavioral pediatrician we saw said

he has

" obsessive compulsive phenomena " but didn't outright diagnose him with OCD. As

many

of you know, OCD commonly occurs with Tourette's. So, I'm trying to figure out

if my

child really has OCD, and what behavior issues of his are just his personality

and what may

be OC related. often has 'bad thoughts' - seeing someone's underwear

etc.. things

he knows he shouldn't be thinking about, but can't help it, and then often feels

the need

to confess it or you will hear him say " Go Away Bad Thought! " ... sometimes many

times a

day. has always had intense meltdowns when things don't go as expected.

We may

be going along fine, and then some seemingly unimportant thing sends him into

tears or

anger. It's so hard to know how to parent him. The thing that confuses me about

whether

it's really OCD is he doesn't really have compulsions - rituals or anything like

that... It's all

just in his thought process, not in acting out things to 'fix' it.

I'd just love input from you all as to whether it sounds like I'm dealing with

behavioral

issues related to OCD or just a 'challenging' child. Thanks.

Marci

---------------------------------

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Thank you - I think I'll take you up on that! What time zone are you in?

What are

the best times to call? I live in Oregon.

> Hi all,

>

> I'm new to this board and still trying to figure out how this board works as

well as trying

to

> figure out my 5 year old son, . was recently diagnosed with

Tourette's, but

> his tics are mild at this point (mostly throat clearing types of things), what

seems to

> distress him most are his OC tendencies. A behavioral pediatrician we saw said

he has

> " obsessive compulsive phenomena " but didn't outright diagnose him with OCD. As

many

> of you know, OCD commonly occurs with Tourette's. So, I'm trying to figure out

if my

> child really has OCD, and what behavior issues of his are just his personality

and what

may

> be OC related. often has 'bad thoughts' - seeing someone's underwear

etc..

things

> he knows he shouldn't be thinking about, but can't help it, and then often

feels the need

> to confess it or you will hear him say " Go Away Bad Thought! " ... sometimes

many times

a

> day. has always had intense meltdowns when things don't go as expected.

We

may

> be going along fine, and then some seemingly unimportant thing sends him into

tears

or

> anger. It's so hard to know how to parent him. The thing that confuses me

about

whether

> it's really OCD is he doesn't really have compulsions - rituals or anything

like that... It's

all

> just in his thought process, not in acting out things to 'fix' it.

>

> I'd just love input from you all as to whether it sounds like I'm dealing with

behavioral

> issues related to OCD or just a 'challenging' child. Thanks.

>

> Marci

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marci!

I have 3 sons, one with OCD. He's 17. He also has diagnoses of

dysgraphia (illegible writing/poor coordination) and Aspergers

Syndrome (on autism spectrum).

My son is now dealing with " bad thoughts. " His seem to focus on

scrupulosity type things, religion, sinning.... I guess his

compulsion is to pray after a bad thought. You can't always see the

compulsions/reaction to a bad thought. Though I can see pray

as he always folds his hands and bows head/closes eyes!

Anyway, good for for bossing back those bad thoughts!! If his

confessing gets out of hand, too many times, you can try to limit the

number of times he's allowed to confess each day.

Even if he wasn't to have " OCD " , you can still work on things the

same way. If life for him and/or family gets too distressing by all

his bad thoughts and other, you will want to find a therapist who is

experienced in working with young children and with OCD. Hopefully

you live in an area where that won't be hard to find, but you might

want to sort of " look now " to have a place/someone in mind!

Have you had a chance to read about OCD treatment? Someone who does

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with Exposure & Response(ritual)

Prevention (ERP) is what you need to seek in a therapist. A question

to ask might be, " Do you do CBT with ERP for OCD? " !

It really is hard to decide with young kids what might be a

stage/phase, their personality, growing pains or something *more.*

As far as parenting him, sounds like you are doing a good job!

Just remember with OCD, anxiety *is* there and can cause some

behaviors, bad moods, short tempers, outbursts.... You never know

when it might be playing a part, even with change in routines, plans,

etc., that causes some outburst. BUT even typical kids can get upset

about those things too. SIGH! When in doubt about if something is

OCD related, usually it's best to decide " OCD " as punishing for OCD

doesn't really help.

Did his tics begin recently?

Well, have to go cook but welcome to the group!

single mom, 3 sons

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm new to this board and still trying to figure out how this board

works as well as trying to

> figure out my 5 year old son, . was recently

diagnosed with Tourette's, but

> his tics are mild at this point (mostly throat clearing types of

things), what seems to

> distress him most are his OC tendencies. A behavioral pediatrician

[Guest guest]

Thanks

I have heard of CBT and ERP ... our problem is that our insurance doesn't have

good

mental health coverage and my husband was recently out of a job for awhile, so

the

finances aren't great... Have any of you gotten help through the schools??

His tics have been going on off and on for over a year and a half..

Marci

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm new to this board and still trying to figure out how this board

> works as well as trying to

> > figure out my 5 year old son, . was recently

> diagnosed with Tourette's, but

> > his tics are mild at this point (mostly throat clearing types of

> things), what seems to

> > distress him most are his OC tendencies. A behavioral pediatrician

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again Marci,

With schools you can get help for problems relating to schoolwork,

etc., caused by OCD, etc. A great place to begin reading about

school and " disabilities " is:

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/education.htm

(also great for OCD, Tourette and lots of other conditions!)

Your son might like this site to learn a little about bossing back

bad thoughts or a bit about OCD itself. I don't know how active or

updated the site is, but had it saved:

http://www.jjsplace.org/index.html

Also, about OCD written for kids:

http://kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/learning_problem/ocd.html

Another good site (besides the OCD Foundation site, of course)

is: http://www.worrywisekids.org/about/index.html

Some books:

http://www.lighthouse-press.com/

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/referenceshelf_ocd.htm

We couldn't find a therapist for (this all began back when he

was around 11.5) and had to manage on our own. With all the

research/reading and the great support and suggestions from this

group, we managed somehow! Things did improve but would have been

faster, I'm pretty sure(!), with a therapist!

>

> Thanks

>

> I have heard of CBT and ERP ... our problem is that our insurance

doesn't have good

> mental health coverage and my husband was recently out of a job for

awhile, so the

> finances aren't great... Have any of you gotten help through the

schools??

>

> His tics have been going on off and on for over a year and a half..

>

> Marci

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm new to this board and still trying to figure out how this board

works as well as trying to

> figure out my 5 year old son, . was recently

diagnosed with Tourette's, but

> his tics are mild at this point (mostly throat clearing types of

things), what seems to

> distress him most are his OC tendencies. A behavioral pediatrician

we saw said he has

> " obsessive compulsive phenomena " but didn't outright diagnose him

with OCD.

Hi Marci, I'm new, too, and have a 5 y.o. with TS and associated

Obsessive compulsive symptoms. Obsesssive compulsive phenomena

probably means that doesn't qualify for an OCD diagnosis for

some reason (not enough time spent on obsessions or compulsions, for

example, or in our case, we don't call it OCD because it waxes and

wanes like his tics do, so my son could be unwilling to even be in

the room next to the kitchen because there's a crack on the kitchen

floor for a few weeks, but then a few weeks later he'll be pretty

much without any obvious obsessive compulsive or other anxiety issues

going on). But basically, what you are dealing with is obsessive

compulsive stuff that is treated in the same way. I've found Freeing

your Child from OCD and Freeing Your Child from Anxiety by Tamar

Chansky the most helpful resources. Our family therapist is helpful

in talking through how to deal with specific situations, but it's

actually the books the most inform what we do.

>

> I'd just love input from you all as to whether it sounds like I'm

dealing with behavioral

> issues related to OCD or just a 'challenging' child. Thanks.

>

> Marci

>

It does sound OCD related. I think that it is very difficult to

parent a child with these issues, and there's a lot of societal

pressure to be tougher on them with statements like " he's just trying

to control you, and it looks like it's working " or " he just wants

attention " or " he's just seeing what he can get away with " . I don't

think that kind of thinking is ever helpful, whether .5 % or 50 % of

kids your child's age are dealing with the same thing.

I've also found that OCD issues with TS can be different from what we

expect OCD to be like--there are often more evening up or just right

compulsions. When I was asked about OCD symptoms, I was always

thinking of excessive handwashing or something, and didn't recognize

how my son's insistence that there be one spoon for serving his food,

another for stirring it, and another for eating it had become a

ritual, and I thought he was just being annoying when he would freak

out screaming and want me to start all over because I didn't get his

food in the " right " way.

Sherri

[Guest guest]

I think that OCD and/or OCD " phenomena " (my son was said to have

obsessive compulsive tendencies at age 4 1/2) are conditions that

evolve and change over time. My son is much better at present than he

was when given a diagnosis.

I would say that since your son is distressed (anxious?) he should

have therapy regardless of his diagnosis. As his behavior changes, he

will be under the care of a therapist who can guide you and help you

sort out your parenting issues ect.

I think that a child's bad behavior requires a parental response and

that kids should be held accountable for their actions no matter what

the cause. But in terms of understanding the behavior and having

appropriate expectations of your child a diagnosis or ideological

framework is valuable. It may also help him obtain services if needed

when he attends school.

I hope that things get better soon. I'm glad you found this website.

It surely has been terrific for me.

Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Hi Marci,

My son, 5, also has OCD and terrible anxiety. I

sometimes think the anxiety is more prevalent than the

OCD. My son does not struggle with bad thoughts, but

extreme fixations. I too was so confused as to why

the OCD was diagnosed. From this group I have learned

that OCD can manifest itself in so many forms. With

Ethan, his anxiety is our number one focus right now.

We have heard from a CBT dr. that his fixations are a

way for him to deal with his anxiety. I know from

what I hear from other moms here that bad thoughts are

very common with children with OCD. Also, Ethan like

struggles with controlling his emotions. He

will have intense melt downs and almost

hyperventilates if something is not going his way.

(like today he cried he needed to get out of the store

quickly and was beyond himself, breathing so hard

begging me to get him out. I sympathize with you over

not always knowing how to parent him. My husband and

I want to understand why he bahaves the way he does,

yet at the same time not excusing him for bad

behaviour. It is a hard balance. Blanca

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks Blanca and other for your helpful responses...

I think part of what I struggle with also is not knowing what to

expect each day. Some days are great and sail smoothly and I think

maybe this is all in my head. Then other days, like today, I think,

" We need help! " Today got a couple of slivers in his foot,

melted down that his foot was itching/burning, then at Vacation Bible

School at our church he didn't want to eat his pretzels b/c he said

they were 'wet' (they weren't) from the apple slices that touched

them, then I had to empty his water cup and refill it for some reason

he couldn't explain, and afterwards we went to a friends' house and

he melted down most of the way home b/c he didn't get to borrow

something he wanted to borrow. But after quiet time in his room, he

was an angel the rest of the afternoon. I just don't get it how some

days are so easy and some are so hard. Is this typical with OCD?

That something that bothers a kid one day won't bother the kid the

next? The bad tho'ts seem to be not as prevalent as they were. Does

OCD wax and wane? And if so how does that get treated.... do you

treat it during the waning (with CBT etc) even though it's not

evidencing itself?

And ... I am going to call you - thanks for the offer to chat...

I just have to find a time when both of my boys are quiet, which is

usually bedtime, but then it's getting late in Tennessee for you

since I live in Oregon. Are you up late?

Marci

On Jul 10, 2006, at 8:24 PM, Blanca Bertrand wrote:

> Hi Marci,

> My son, 5, also has OCD and terrible anxiety. I

> sometimes think the anxiety is more prevalent than the

> OCD. My son does not struggle with bad thoughts, but

> extreme fixations. I too was so confused as to why

> the OCD was diagnosed. From this group I have learned

> that OCD can manifest itself in so many forms. With

> Ethan, his anxiety is our number one focus right now.

> We have heard from a CBT dr. that his fixations are a

> way for him to deal with his anxiety. I know from

> what I hear from other moms here that bad thoughts are

> very common with children with OCD. Also, Ethan like

> struggles with controlling his emotions. He

> will have intense melt downs and almost

> hyperventilates if something is not going his way.

> (like today he cried he needed to get out of the store

> quickly and was beyond himself, breathing so hard

> begging me to get him out. I sympathize with you over

> not always knowing how to parent him. My husband and

> I want to understand why he bahaves the way he does,

> yet at the same time not excusing him for bad

> behaviour. It is a hard balance. Blanca

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

These kids have good and bad days like you and me. When you begin to

understand what fuels his anxiety, you will be able to anticipate " bad

days " better and can plan for it. OCD is anxiety (to the 10th power

or so) and therefore things that increase anxiety will increase the

symptoms of OCD. The best thing to do for your future is to educate

yourself.

Bonnie

>

> > Hi Marci,

> > My son, 5, also has OCD and terrible anxiety. I

> > sometimes think the anxiety is more prevalent than the

> > OCD. My son does not struggle with bad thoughts, but

> > extreme fixations. I too was so confused as to why

> > the OCD was diagnosed. From this group I have learned

> > that OCD can manifest itself in so many forms. With

> > Ethan, his anxiety is our number one focus right now.

> > We have heard from a CBT dr. that his fixations are a

> > way for him to deal with his anxiety. I know from

> > what I hear from other moms here that bad thoughts are

> > very common with children with OCD. Also, Ethan like

> > struggles with controlling his emotions. He

> > will have intense melt downs and almost

> > hyperventilates if something is not going his way.

> > (like today he cried he needed to get out of the store

> > quickly and was beyond himself, breathing so hard

> > begging me to get him out. I sympathize with you over

> > not always knowing how to parent him. My husband and

> > I want to understand why he bahaves the way he does,

> > yet at the same time not excusing him for bad

> > behaviour. It is a hard balance. Blanca

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >