Re: Re: Pentagon mulling 'stealth sharks' to patrol the s...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/2006 2:22:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nathaninfortuna@... writes:

The federal law is canceled out by the voters of California when it comes to states rights and medical purposes.

This is what led to the Civil War. There was a belief then that the states could declare Null and Void any federal law it chose. Some state like South Carolina, Voided virtually all federal laws. Some of this had to do with slavery, but it was a wide range of laws. Allowing such a policy to crop up again will very likely lead to the dissolution of the Union again.

Right now there are state and localities that are violating federal law not just toward this, but illegal immigration. These places have declared themselves sanctuaries. Well, they are getting what they wanted with lots of illegals, especially those in street gangs like MS13. The bad thing about that is that their laws against asking immigration status are hampering police efforts to rein in the gangs.

We'll just have to wait and see if terrorists take advantage of this too.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/2006 11:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I really don't know why anyone feels like this? I have different opinions to others and sometimes people may disagree with me - I don't care - everyone is entitled to their opinions and I haven't seen people not been allowed opinions here.

I don't have a problem with differing opinions. What is a problem is when those differences are expressed in a way fully intended to be offensive to the other side. Lack of decorum, propriety and respect for others also irritates me, especially if one side demands it for themselves but does not return the favor.

If the debate could be kept about the facts and civil, then it should not be a problem. However, when it descends into name calling and hyperbole, then it is no longer debate but school yard bullying and harassment.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/2006 3:53:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rainbow@... writes:

We can only hope!

The sooner the better!

Have you read Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach?

We are ready!

Are we really? I don't think so. Most people would not give up what they have to go extreme green nor should they.

The dissolution of power also leads back to the era of feudalism and warlords. The smaller nations are, the less power and security they have and thus are more likely to fight each other. In the early days before even the Articles of Confederation, the various colonies fought each other from time to time. The British troops were here as much to keep the colonies from fighting each other as to keep the French and Spanish out.

If the we devolve back in the a cluster of states rather than a solid union, the states would be competing with each other directly and very likely in terms more forcible than adjusting taxes and laws.

Think about this though. If each state became a separate country, that would be 50 sets of federal law, 50 new currencies, and 50 national rivalries, all where before there had been unity. We would end up like Europe pre-WWI or perhaps even as unstable as Africa today. There would be far more strife, regionalism and outright war than there is today.

Likewise, as much as people like to bash the US for militarism, most of the world secretly likes having the US around. After all, the US spent so much of its money to keep the Russians out of Europe, allowing the Europeans to spend far less on defense. They claim to be angry at us for taking out Sadaam, but remember most nations at the UN agreed with the action and signed off on it. Now, most of the world, Europe especially, is hoping that the US will do something about Iran before it gets nukes because no one else has the power to.

Without the US presence, it is certain there would be far more violence and war out there than there is right now. We have kept the North Koreans contained, the Chinese out of Taiwan, the Indians and Pakistanis from nuking each other, and so on. The US has taken the lead, finally, in the war against terrorists. Europe and other places are involved too, but they are mainly operating behind the scenes in the shadowy covert wars we will probably never hear about.

Simply put, if the world degenerates back into smaller and smaller states, we will see more and more fighting and strife than we do now. That is simply the historical pattern.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/2006 3:53:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rainbow@... writes:

We can only hope!

The sooner the better!

Have you read Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach?

We are ready!

Are we really? I don't think so. Most people would not give up what they have to go extreme green nor should they.

The dissolution of power also leads back to the era of feudalism and warlords. The smaller nations are, the less power and security they have and thus are more likely to fight each other. In the early days before even the Articles of Confederation, the various colonies fought each other from time to time. The British troops were here as much to keep the colonies from fighting each other as to keep the French and Spanish out.

If the we devolve back in the a cluster of states rather than a solid union, the states would be competing with each other directly and very likely in terms more forcible than adjusting taxes and laws.

Think about this though. If each state became a separate country, that would be 50 sets of federal law, 50 new currencies, and 50 national rivalries, all where before there had been unity. We would end up like Europe pre-WWI or perhaps even as unstable as Africa today. There would be far more strife, regionalism and outright war than there is today.

Likewise, as much as people like to bash the US for militarism, most of the world secretly likes having the US around. After all, the US spent so much of its money to keep the Russians out of Europe, allowing the Europeans to spend far less on defense. They claim to be angry at us for taking out Sadaam, but remember most nations at the UN agreed with the action and signed off on it. Now, most of the world, Europe especially, is hoping that the US will do something about Iran before it gets nukes because no one else has the power to.

Without the US presence, it is certain there would be far more violence and war out there than there is right now. We have kept the North Koreans contained, the Chinese out of Taiwan, the Indians and Pakistanis from nuking each other, and so on. The US has taken the lead, finally, in the war against terrorists. Europe and other places are involved too, but they are mainly operating behind the scenes in the shadowy covert wars we will probably never hear about.

Simply put, if the world degenerates back into smaller and smaller states, we will see more and more fighting and strife than we do now. That is simply the historical pattern.

[Guest guest]

> : "There was a belief then that the states could declare Null and Void any federal law it chose. Some state like South Carolina, Voided virtually all federal laws. Some of this had to do with slavery, but it was a wide range of laws. Allowing such a policy to crop up again will very likely lead to the dissolution of the Union again."We can only hope! The sooner the better!Have you read Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach?We are ready!  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

> : "There was a belief then that the states could declare Null and Void any federal law it chose. Some state like South Carolina, Voided virtually all federal laws. Some of this had to do with slavery, but it was a wide range of laws. Allowing such a policy to crop up again will very likely lead to the dissolution of the Union again."We can only hope! The sooner the better!Have you read Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach?We are ready!  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

> : "I don't have a problem with differing opinions. What is a problem is when those differences are expressed in a way fully intended to be offensive to the other side. Lack of decorum, propriety and respect for others also irritates me, especially if one side demands it for themselves but does not return the favor. If the debate could be kept about the facts and civil, then it should not be a problem. However, when it descends into name calling and hyperbole, then it is no longer debate but school yard bullying and harassment." I couldn't agree more!  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

> : "I don't have a problem with differing opinions. What is a problem is when those differences are expressed in a way fully intended to be offensive to the other side. Lack of decorum, propriety and respect for others also irritates me, especially if one side demands it for themselves but does not return the favor. If the debate could be kept about the facts and civil, then it should not be a problem. However, when it descends into name calling and hyperbole, then it is no longer debate but school yard bullying and harassment." I couldn't agree more!  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

> : "Most people would not give up what they have to go extreme green nor should they."I think you would find that a sizable majority from San Francisco to the Canadian border are already taking the necessary steps. Solar and wind electric, biodiesel, and organic farming are the foundations of an independent, natural, sustainable lifestyle here.For example, here our power is generated geothermally, our produce is gown organically, and even my owner built home is constructed primarily of recycled materials. Furthermore I both live and work at home; no commuting, no mortgage, no debt.     Rainbow

[Guest guest]

> : "Most people would not give up what they have to go extreme green nor should they."I think you would find that a sizable majority from San Francisco to the Canadian border are already taking the necessary steps. Solar and wind electric, biodiesel, and organic farming are the foundations of an independent, natural, sustainable lifestyle here.For example, here our power is generated geothermally, our produce is gown organically, and even my owner built home is constructed primarily of recycled materials. Furthermore I both live and work at home; no commuting, no mortgage, no debt.     Rainbow