Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Kudzo is good for alcoholism--if they would just get the ball rolling on it. Of course, the drug companies would hurry and make a chemical version of whatever it is in kudzo that helps with alcoholism and people would take that instead of the kudzo and it would still be everywhere! Sometimes I see Asian people gathering it, and at least I know that if I'm ever in a situation where I can't get food I always have the Kudzo greens. > > Re: > > > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered, particular > > effort! LOL! > > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu a > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated), people > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup and > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten. > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done for > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to learn > how to use it! > > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just couldn't > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan: they > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA - but > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to sell > it to them). > > > Yours for better letters, > Kate Gladstone > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest > handwritingrepair@... > http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair > 325 South Manning Boulevard > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA > telephone 518/482-6763 > AND REMEMBER ... > you can order books through my site! > (Amazon.com link - > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those responsible. Inger Re: Re: Not a Hippie Other then that I am sort of "upset" at the hippies for there greeting to those that came from vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 They were a mob of ignorant people who felt good about " movements. " For them, the protests were not real protests, just a social experience. I'd bet you that, even though these protesters still disagree with the Vietnam War, these same people grew up to appreciate vets and realize how much they sacrificed on behalf of their country. Tom Administrator I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those responsible. Inger Re: Re: Not a Hippie Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there greeting to those that came from vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Sorry, I mean KUDZU, not kudzo. > > > > Re: > > > > > > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge > > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered, particular > > > effort! LOL! > > > > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu a > > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated), people > > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup > and > > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten. > > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done for > > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to learn > > how to use it! > > > > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just > couldn't > > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to > > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan: they > > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA - > but > > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to > sell > > it to them). > > > > > > Yours for better letters, > > Kate Gladstone > > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest > > handwritingrepair@ > > http://learn.to/handwrite, > http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair > > 325 South Manning Boulevard > > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA > > telephone 518/482-6763 > > AND REMEMBER ... > > you can order books through my site! > > (Amazon.com link - > > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I think I would strive to understand and to learn. Like are the people happy? Why do they think free speech is bad? I'd listen to the views - open discussion; although I suspect it would likely end up in heated debate/argueing :-( (not me personally :-) ) > > ...so therefore we kill them??? > > Inger > > > Re: Re: Not a Hippie > > > China is not free speech... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I didn't know you were THAT telepathic, Tom, that you can know for certain exactly what they felt. Or are you personally acquainted with them? My guess would be that they really did feel as strongly about the war as you do for example about animals and the environment, but just directed their protests at the wrong people. But neither of us can KNOW, only speculate. Right? Inger Re: Re: Not a Hippie Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there greeting to those that came from vietnam. FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 What's the difference? Inger Re: Not a Hippie Sorry, I mean KUDZU, not kudzo. > > > > Re: > > > > > > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge > > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered, particular > > > effort! LOL! > > > > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu a > > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated), people > > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup > and > > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten. > > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done for > > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to learn > > how to use it! > > > > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just > couldn't > > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to > > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan: they > > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA - > but > > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to > sell > > it to them). > > > > > > Yours for better letters, > > Kate Gladstone > > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest > > handwritingrepair@ > > http://learn.to/handwrite, > http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair > > 325 South Manning Boulevard > > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA > > telephone 518/482-6763 > > AND REMEMBER ... > > you can order books through my site! > > (Amazon.com link - > > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 For me, personally, I believe murder is wrong and would include killing in war in this--that is, I wouldn't go to war and kill someone. I respect my country and pay taxes and follow the laws and respect the officials and understand that there is sometimes an element of self-defense involved but for me there is a greater law that I am obligated to follow--that of not killing. I would be willing to go to jail or whatever for my belief. As one example of why I believe this way I cite the story of when Jesus told , who had taken out his sword and cut off the ear of the soldier when they were taking Jesus away: " Return your sword to it's place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword. " -Mt 26:52, as well as Ps 46:9 about God making wars to cease, and Is. 2:2-4 about beating swords into plowshares and learning war no more, and loving your neighbor/fellow man which you can't do if you kill them. In , " greebohere " <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote: > > I think I would strive to understand and to learn. Like are the > people happy? Why do they think free speech is bad? I'd listen to the > views - open discussion; although I suspect it would likely end up in > heated debate/argueing :-( (not me personally :-) ) > > > > > > > > > ...so therefore we kill them??? > > > > Inger > > > > > > Re: Re: Not a Hippie > > > > > > China is not free speech... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 The fact that kudzu is something, and kudzo isn't. LOL! I looked up kudzo in the dictionary and it's not there and googled kudzo and got 'did you mean kudzu?' Yes! > > > > > > Re: > > > > > > > > > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a huge > > > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered, > particular > > > > effort! LOL! > > > > > > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider kudzu > a > > > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated), > people > > > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in soup > > and > > > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten. > > > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done > for > > > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to > learn > > > how to use it! > > > > > > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just > > couldn't > > > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it to > > > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan: > they > > > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the USA - > > > but > > > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to > > sell > > > it to them). > > > > > > > > > Yours for better letters, > > > Kate Gladstone > > > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest > > > handwritingrepair@ > > > http://learn.to/handwrite, > > http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair > > > 325 South Manning Boulevard > > > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA > > > telephone 518/482-6763 > > > AND REMEMBER ... > > > you can order books through my site! > > > (Amazon.com link - > > > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold) > > > > > > > > > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and > acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the > folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested against. What they told me was that these protesters, if they were protesting the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a blanket protest against everyone, would have been more easily received. Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent without leave. The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking everyone who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards or go AWOL so easily. It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas, insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting against. I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to him and stated that they should have protested against the government, not him. So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of speculation is insulting. Tom Administrator I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those responsible. Inger Re: Re: Not a Hippie Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there greeting to those that came from vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I've heard this too--that some protestors (not all of course) were opportunists and using the situation for their own ends--to foment anarchy and anti-goverment statements, kind of like terrorism. > I agree. They could not help having been sent there and just did > their job. Demonstrations should have been directed at those > responsible. > > Inger > > > Re: Re: Not a Hippie > > > Other then that I am sort of " upset " at the hippies for there > greeting to those that came from vietnam. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 " We focus on China right now, because China is admittedly setting itself up as our rival. As such, China could threaten our interests and allies in Asia. There are advantages and disadvantages for both sides in such a war, but that will become clearer in the last two bits of that article. > > Unfortunately, nations usually compete with each other rather than > cooperate, and when they do cooperate, it is usually for short term reasons (like WWII) and soon they fall to competing again. China may become an ally one of these days, but for now their government and goals are not compatible with ours or their neighbors. " Well thinking about this; businesses/companies have rivals, they compete - they even go to war of sorts (price wars etc) , but generally do not kill one another literally. > > > In a message dated 3/8/2006 3:20:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > julie.stevenson16@... writes: > > Now this is where I get confused - to me killing is killing, plain > and simple - people just chose to justify it within war and self > defence - the lines become blurred. It is saying - it's wrong to > kill, but if you are at war then hey fine and also if someone punches > you, you can kill them? > > I would kill in self defence, but only if I had to - as for war - war > appals me. > > I forgot earlier to comment on an article you posted about the > possibility of war with China - so I'll comment now :-) Why do people > focus on the idea of war with China? What about making China allies > and working together - is that not a possibility? > > > > > > If someone punches you, you can punch back. Killing someone for hitting you, > unless their intent is to beat you to death, is both unethical and against > the law, though the law may be lenient in some cases, such as if someone breaks > into the house of an elderly person and is beating them senseless and the > elderly person kills them. But then again, the law does take a more lenient > stance in general on harm visited upon home invaders. > > Its good that war is appalling to you. It should be. However, war, like > self-defense, sometimes necessary. Hitler's wars of conquest were not > justifiable, but the war to stop him was. > > We focus on China right now, because China is admittedly setting itself up > as our rival. As such, China could threaten our interests and allies in Asia. > There are advantages and disadvantages for both sides in such a war, but that > will become clearer in the last two bits of that article. > > Unfortunately, nations usually compete with each other rather than > cooperate, and when they do cooperate, it is usually for short term reasons (like > WWII) and soon they fall to competing again. China may become an ally one of > these days, but for now their government and goals are not compatible with ours > or their neighbors. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 My grandad served in WWII and he was a pacifist, but also believed in defending his country. He was something like a signals controller(?) and he was in danger as he was quite close to the fighting, but he didn't believe in killing others; like I said he was a pacifist, yet he also believed it his duty to protect his country. He did not talk often about the war - I do believe it was a very sad time - I know he had medals, because I found them fascinating - I unfortunately do not know what his medals were for and it is doubtfull they are still in the family as nearing my grandads death someone stole from him. > > What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people > who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others > who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested > against. > > What they told me was that these protesters, if they were protesting > the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a blanket > protest against everyone, would have been more easily received. > Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were > too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent > without leave. > > The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking everyone > who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were > prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards > or go AWOL so easily. > > It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion > were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas, > insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally > raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so > rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting > against. > > I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor > who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to him > and stated that they should have protested against the government, > not him. > > So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of > speculation is insulting. > > Tom > Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Tom wrote: > What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested against. Well, that's good; then you have at least some first hand information. Which is what I was wondering. > What they told me was that these protesters, if they were protesting the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a blanket protest against everyone, would have been more easily received. Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent without leave. > The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking everyone who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards or go AWOL so easily. That's pretty much what I though too. Which is why I wrote that I thought they should have protested at those who sent them in the first place. > It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas, insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting against. Such is often the mentality of a mob, once someone has put them up to something. That's why I've never been part of a public protest, other than online, despite feeling strongly about many issues. > I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to him and stated that they should have protested against the government, not him. Good. > So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of speculation is insulting. I didn't mean to insult, but you did write: " They were a mob of ignorant people who felt good about " movements. " " I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly* ignorant people, period. " For them, the protests were not real protests, just a social experience. " I'm wondering how you know that too, to be able to state it as a fact, unless ARE able to somehow percieve how they experience things. Sorry to be nitpicking here, but my Aspie logic finds it hard to just ignore formulations like that, at least from someone I with your linguistic skill and precision. I'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less agree on the basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history, the little guy just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish order them do, while the sharks can keep playing their power games unperturbed, using people like chess pawns as they please. Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 : > I've heard this too--that some protestors (not all of course) were opportunists and using the situation for their own ends--to foment anarchy and anti-goverment statements, kind of like terrorism. That's unfortunately not too uncommon with any protest group. Either someone starts or supports a movement for their own agenda (e.g. anti-nuclear campaigns secretly funded/guided by the oil industry) or they hijack it along the way, or they disrupt legitimate and peaceful demonstrations to give the majority of peaceful demonstrators a bad name. This happened here at the WTO-meeting in Gothemburg, where masked trouble-makers came here from other parts of Europe to deliberately make it violent, which the original organizers had in no way intended. It would not surprise me one bit if some of those were planted by the very powers they were pretending to protest against, so as to give an excuse for police to attack back and beat up/lock up serious, peaceful demonstrators and trouble-making riff-raff indiscriminately. Or else they might be misguided youth with too much adrenalin and not enough excitement in their lives. Very annoying, either way. Especially since that gives an image of ALL demonstrators being like that - which is not the case at all - and invariably achieves the goal of moving the focus from the issue being protested against, onto the rioting and who did what. Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 That is really bad taste, and very uncompassionate! I agree that it does give a bad name to the peace movement. :-( Inger Re: Re: Not a Hippie In a message dated 3/8/2006 1:32:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes: It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas, insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting against. Just like today protesters are showing up at funerals of service men and women who have died in the line of duty. This strikes me as completely crass and undignified and will certainly reflect very negatively on the peace movement they claim to be representing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 " I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly* ignorant people, period. " Well, they admitted it. That is how I know. At least they were finally good enough to do that. Now we know that cowardice isn't only going into battle because you are afraid to go Absent Without Leave. Now we know that cowardice is also going AWOL and going to jail because you are too afraid to figure out your own identity and whether or not you really believe that the war you are protesting is wrong. You'd think they'd value human life rnough that they would keep their heads screwed on straight. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Not in this particular instance though. In this instance you had a bunch of people who didn't know what they believed harrassing veterans and underminding the ability of the United Dates Government to win the war by turning the people against it. Thus here you had the little fish manipulating the sharks as they pleased. I saw the same thing during Gulf War I. It sickened me in college to see protesters walking down the street protesting the war, and then get in their big-ass SUVS and drive to the campus common, burn a tire, start smoking grass, and sing " Give peace a chance. " I notice the pot smoking lasted about five hours whereas the actual march took half an hour. I wondered if spectators who just happened on the scene would wonder what these people were protesting. The war, or anti-pot laws. Good thing the cops broke it up. The whole thing was an embarrassment to the school. Particularly the march portion of the protest where the ROTC, Army, Navy, and Air Force Reserve personnel were held back by police in a confined area outside the parade route so they couldn'ty interfere with the protestors or make their own voices heard. One of those guys that were cordoned off and made to shut up got shipped off to the war and got killed. I only hope the assholes that protested because it was " cool " to protest enjoyed their five hours of getting high. It's people like the Army guy who got killed that died for the right for those potheads to snub their noses at American US Service Personnel. I can agree with people who fight for peace. But war protestors like those I have described above make me sick. Tom Administrator I'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less agree on the basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history, the little guy just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish order them do, while the sharks can keep playing their power games unperturbed, using people like chess pawns as they please. Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I'm not sure, , but I'm with Tom on this one: people who refuse to do anything in regards to using their rights other than to use them blindly deserve to be left to their own devices: they deserve no defense by the efforts and lives of others. If they willingly participate in something they don't believe in, they're hypocrites of the worst kind: they don't even fight for what they believe in. As the old saying goes: if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. I say, let them fall, but let them go and do so quietly, without disturbing others along the way. > > I may not like what you have to say, but I would fight to the death for your right to say it. > > Who said something like that in history? > > > " To be blunt: I would rather commit suicide then defend such people. I > am not going to fight for a bunch of stoners and loshers who have no > known direction and no known purpose, even unto themselves except to > protest those who would defend their better interests. " > > > > I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not. > Please go back to Mars or Venus > http://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/ > > --------------------------------- > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 " Just like on was disappointed to find out that free love at Haight and Asbury in San Francisco was really just a bunch of stoners getting high and sleeping around with each other just to have sex,... " I met a person who seemed on the surface to be nice, believing in love for all and love being healing - this I could agree with; then to my shock I found out what they meant by love, they equated sex = love, their idea of healing a person was to have sex with them. This particular person was trying to set up as a healer; it worries me greatly that innocent and vulnerable people will have no idea as to his ideas on healing as he isn't exactly clear or forth coming about them. As for RL protests - I know personally I could not get involved. For one I can't stand crowds and I can clearly see mob mentality and it scares me. If I hear of a protest, even if it is supposedly peaceful - I generally get away from that area as quickly as possible as there is often trouble. I do have beliefs and I would stand up for people - even protest, but my form of protesting would be likely by letter and other like communications - not mob protests - however peacefull they set out to be it often goes wrong. I cannot understand either those who shout peace and then use non peaceful ways. > > " I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have > protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly* > ignorant people, period. " > > Well, they admitted it. That is how I know. > > At least they were finally good enough to do that. Now we know that > cowardice isn't only going into battle because you are afraid to go > Absent Without Leave. Now we know that cowardice is also going AWOL > and going to jail because you are too afraid to figure out your own > identity and whether or not you really believe that the war you are > protesting is wrong. > > You'd think they'd value human life rnough that they would keep their > heads screwed on straight. > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I can see a great deal of lack of respect and consideration from the people you are describing and it does indeed sound sickening. I've made it clear about not liking war, but I would still defend my country and I would get involved in war efforts if it was protecting others - it too annoys me and frustrates me that others (like you have described) have no concept that their freedoms have been fought for, and they most likely do not care either :-( I am thankful to those who fought for my independence - I do believe in remembering wars - not to glorify it - people who were involved in wars know that there is no glory. To me remembering it reminds people (unfortunately not everyone) what was fought for, what we have, what we could have lost and also to remember that war is not a good thing for anyone - I only wish humans would learn that :-( How quickly some people forget. > > I'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less agree > on the basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history, the > little guy just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish > order them do, while the sharks can keep playing their power games > unperturbed, using people like chess pawns as they please. > > Inger > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Tom: >>> " For them, the protests were not real protests, just a social experience. " Inger: >> " I'm wondering how you know that too, to be able to state it as a fact,unless ARE able to somehow percieve how they experience things. Sorry to be nitpicking here, but my Aspie logic finds it hard to just ignore formulations like that, at least from someone I with your linguistic skill and precision. " Tom: > Because I saw a documentary about the various social movements and how people tend to follow any pied piper provided these pied pipers toot their horns loud enough. ! Why didn't you SAY so, then? > Just like on was disappointed to find out that free love at Haight and Asbury in San Francisco was really just a bunch of stoners getting high and sleeping around with each other just to have sex, I expressed similar disappointment when war protesters admitted following other war protesters who they thought were leading them, and the leaders admitting following still others who they thought were leading them, and nobody knowing who was leading who, and for what reason. I don't recally you expressing any disappointment at all, only an unequivocal statement on how those other people were feeling and experiencing things. It would really have helped me understand that you were trying to express dissapointment if you had written how YOU felt instead of how THEY felt. ;-) > To think that I had to sign up for the Selective Service System and be avialable for any wars that might come up to defend people like these idiots is appalling. So, you are appalled? OK. (I WAS agreeing with you that I think the protests were misdirected and rude.) > To be blunt: I would rather commit suicide then defend such people. I am not going to fight for a bunch of stoners and losers who have no known direction and no known purpose, even unto themselves except to protest those who would defend their better interests. As I think got sorted out on another thread, the U.S. has not been invaded in the last 500 years - apart from one little spat with the Japanese during WWII - so unless someone decides to invade you anytime soon, I doubt you personally will have to defend anyone at all. > It would be nice to know that we didn't have huge crowds protesting things just for the sake of protesting them. Many of those protesters weren't free thinkers at all because they were hypnotized by the mob, Sure, we've already sorted that out too. > ...and it hurts me dearly to know that most of those people bashed Viet Nam war veterans (who fought, got maimed, and died for them) For them? I have every respect for veterans and don't think it is at all fair to blaim any war on the soldiers, but that war was offensive, not defensive, unless I'm very misinformed? > just because it was a " cool " thing to do and not because they actually > believed that the war was wrong. But here you go again, assuming to KNOW which it happened to be in this particular case. As always, I'm sure the truth lies in somewhere inbetween. The most likely thing statistically is that SOME of them really belived the war was wrong and wanted to demonstrate anywhere they could, while others MIGHT have thought it was a cool thing to do. But again, none of us can know for sure, regardless of documentaries on the psychology of prostesters. Inger: >> I didn't mean to insult, but you did write: " They were a mob of ignorant people who felt good about " movements. " " Tom: > And I was right. Most of them were. If you still insist on that wording, fine. Inger: >> " I'm still wondering how you know how they FELT? I would not have protested if you had simply said that it was an mob of *seemingly* ignorant people, period. " Tom: > Well, they admitted it. That is how I know. All of them? > At least they were finally good enough to do that. Now we know that cowardice isn't only going into battle because you are afraid to go Absent Without Leave. Now we know that cowardice is also going AWOL and going to jail because you are too afraid to figure out your own identity and whether or not you really believe that the war you are protesting is wrong. I'm afraid I don't understand this sentence. > You'd think they'd value human life enough that they would keep their heads screwed on straight. Just as you value the life of all the civilian victims of U.S. intervention/aggression all over the world...? Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I don't know whether this is true or not, but one of my high school history teachers said there was a minor terrorist attacks in The former USSR and when the men who did it were caught, they were castrated by the KGB and returned to their families with their genitals crammed down their throats. Tom Administrator The KGB took a few hostages from the right people's families and delivered to those right people certain parts of the hostages anatomies. Very soon after the Russian hostages were released and none we ever taken again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I agree with what you are saying . Thanks for posting your opinion. Tom Administrator I think there needs to be a general maturity development within society that understands that there are differences in general but unity should be found by the premises in which we all can oblige, in essential respects and dignities. Sort as if minds are more understanding of one another, less tempormental and certainly straight forward but not subsiding to irrational disputes sociopolically. Psychological understanding one another by increasing the prevalence's of rational teachings such as psychological concepts starting early on in public education would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Another zinger from Rainbow! > > > Inger: " Maybe it's one of those zen things... :-) " > > Or, one of those zin things, should someone wine about it! > > Rainbow > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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