Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thanks for the update. I hope you'll be able to meet and get along as well IRL. Inger Lady Friend Update I have spoken on the phone twice to her, the last time for 1hr and 13 minutes. I did not realize it was of that duration, which is good, keeping a conversation going for that amount of time to someone that is not interesting is unwelcoming. While I have been on dates before, around 3 or so, I have never really had what would be referred to as a girlfriend. She seems like a person that could be considered a girlfriend especially in person. Although at this time it's only over the phone and the internet. So those that wanted the update, that's the update. I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/ Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nothing is perfect of course.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: Thanks for the update. I hope you'll be able to meet and get along as well IRL. IngerI'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/ Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Nothing is perfect of course.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: Thanks for the update. I hope you'll be able to meet and get along as well IRL. IngerI'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/ Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I was in a long distance relation for 3 years when i was 26-28 I was living in UK and then Canada for 2years and she was living in Singapore. I then moved to Singapore and married her (my first and only girl friend) and we lived there for 20 months before moving back to UK. We have now been together for 9 years. :-) I remember just before i met her of feeling unwanted, 26 and never had a first data with a girl but my girl was worth the wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 In a message dated 3/3/2006 4:12:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vze2txm3@... writes: As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. The romantic ideal is the cause of a lot of problems. People these days have some fairy tale notion of what marriage is supposed be, then when they find out it isn't so, then it falls apart. I think a lot of this is fed by the media, from movies, romance novels and women's magazines. Girls especially seem to be treated to a false expectation that they can do whatever they like with no consequences, while boys are automatically presumed guilty of all charges. There is a movement for counseling and training before marriage. I think this is a very good idea. I would like to see it expanded further by having a one year trial marriage, like the ancient Celts used to do. This would be a time when the couple would live together as if married, but if it didn't work out, they could walk away from it with no repercussions or strings, like alimony and such. To ensure that no children, a complicating factor, would be conceived during this time, the woman could have a temporary tubal ligation or other long-term yet reversible method of birth control used. I say the women rather than men because several such options current exist for women but not men, the female system with its once monthly production of eggs being much easier to handle than the constant production of millions of sperm in men. I would think that with counseling and such a trial marriage, divorce rates would drop greatly, though many trial marriages may fail. Certainly such a contract would be easier to walk away from than a full marriage and would be much less taxing emotionally to all concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 In a message dated 3/3/2006 4:12:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vze2txm3@... writes: As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. The romantic ideal is the cause of a lot of problems. People these days have some fairy tale notion of what marriage is supposed be, then when they find out it isn't so, then it falls apart. I think a lot of this is fed by the media, from movies, romance novels and women's magazines. Girls especially seem to be treated to a false expectation that they can do whatever they like with no consequences, while boys are automatically presumed guilty of all charges. There is a movement for counseling and training before marriage. I think this is a very good idea. I would like to see it expanded further by having a one year trial marriage, like the ancient Celts used to do. This would be a time when the couple would live together as if married, but if it didn't work out, they could walk away from it with no repercussions or strings, like alimony and such. To ensure that no children, a complicating factor, would be conceived during this time, the woman could have a temporary tubal ligation or other long-term yet reversible method of birth control used. I say the women rather than men because several such options current exist for women but not men, the female system with its once monthly production of eggs being much easier to handle than the constant production of millions of sperm in men. I would think that with counseling and such a trial marriage, divorce rates would drop greatly, though many trial marriages may fail. Certainly such a contract would be easier to walk away from than a full marriage and would be much less taxing emotionally to all concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Congratulations. Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together. Raven > > > I was in a long distance relation for 3 years when i was 26-28 > I was living in UK and then Canada for 2years and she was living in Singapore. > I then moved to Singapore and married her (my first and only girl friend) and we lived there for 20 months before moving back to UK. > We have now been together for 9 years. :-) > I remember just before i met her of feeling unwanted, 26 and never had a first data with a girl > but my girl was worth the wait. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 > Raven: "Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together."This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around. What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing?  Rainbow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 >From: " Rainbow . " <rainbow@...> >> Raven: " Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together. " >> This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around > What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing? Perhaps the " it's all about me " and " love one another " aspect is statistically insignificant. In other words, those things affect relationships, but hadn't varied enough to account for radical changes in how many relationships fall apart. As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. What has changed is our social structure. At the same time, we are attempting to apply the old model of marriage and family relationships. Never mind the implications of the effect of an NT social institution on autistics, because we see that this just doesn't work for NTs either. People (of course including NTs) do not regard marriage, sex and children as they did 50 years ago. The same thing happens with extended families (except that NTs acknowledge it). In agrarian societies, people stayed at one place and supported their elders. With urbanization and mobility, the underlying living arrangements don't exist. The social obligations in this regard change within a generation. I would posit that in a modern society, we have a greater tendency to " love one another " , but less of a tendency to stay in fixed social structures and their resulting relationships. - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 >From: " Rainbow . " <rainbow@...> >> Raven: " Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together. " >> This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around > What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing? Perhaps the " it's all about me " and " love one another " aspect is statistically insignificant. In other words, those things affect relationships, but hadn't varied enough to account for radical changes in how many relationships fall apart. As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. What has changed is our social structure. At the same time, we are attempting to apply the old model of marriage and family relationships. Never mind the implications of the effect of an NT social institution on autistics, because we see that this just doesn't work for NTs either. People (of course including NTs) do not regard marriage, sex and children as they did 50 years ago. The same thing happens with extended families (except that NTs acknowledge it). In agrarian societies, people stayed at one place and supported their elders. With urbanization and mobility, the underlying living arrangements don't exist. The social obligations in this regard change within a generation. I would posit that in a modern society, we have a greater tendency to " love one another " , but less of a tendency to stay in fixed social structures and their resulting relationships. - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 " I would think that with counseling and such a trial marriage, divorce rates would drop greatly, though many trial marriages may fail. Certainly such a contract would be easier to walk away from than a full marriage and would be much less taxing emotionally to all concerned. " The the continued edurance of emotional taxation DURING a marriage is necessary for any long term commitment to succeed, and a trial run marriage of one year may fall short of what is necessary for a long term marriage to succeed. -Would the prospective couple have any idea about what it's like to carry a 30 year mortgage through good economic times and bad? -Could they live through a loss of employment by either one or both spouses? -How would they deal with an unexpected pregnancy if one were to occur? -How would they be able to cope with a special needs child? -Would they be able to support one another through the death or the disease of their own child or children? -Would the one be willing to take care of the other if either of them became physically incapacitated it some way? -Do they have any idea what their political, religious, or ideological viewpoints will be ten, twenty, thirty years from now and whether they marriage could survive if the other changed? Many of these things could be discussed during counseling, but then, if you need such substantial counseling before you get married to inform yourself about these potential situations, you probably aren't ready to get married. Another idea might be to have mandatory relationship compatibility classes in high school where the above issues and more are discussed to make graduating people of marrying age aware of the considerations of marriage going forward. This would at least implant in people's minds what a serious RESPONSIBILITY it can be in addition to a relationship. This would be followed up by pre-marital counseling for any couples that felt they were ready to be married. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 " I would think that with counseling and such a trial marriage, divorce rates would drop greatly, though many trial marriages may fail. Certainly such a contract would be easier to walk away from than a full marriage and would be much less taxing emotionally to all concerned. " The the continued edurance of emotional taxation DURING a marriage is necessary for any long term commitment to succeed, and a trial run marriage of one year may fall short of what is necessary for a long term marriage to succeed. -Would the prospective couple have any idea about what it's like to carry a 30 year mortgage through good economic times and bad? -Could they live through a loss of employment by either one or both spouses? -How would they deal with an unexpected pregnancy if one were to occur? -How would they be able to cope with a special needs child? -Would they be able to support one another through the death or the disease of their own child or children? -Would the one be willing to take care of the other if either of them became physically incapacitated it some way? -Do they have any idea what their political, religious, or ideological viewpoints will be ten, twenty, thirty years from now and whether they marriage could survive if the other changed? Many of these things could be discussed during counseling, but then, if you need such substantial counseling before you get married to inform yourself about these potential situations, you probably aren't ready to get married. Another idea might be to have mandatory relationship compatibility classes in high school where the above issues and more are discussed to make graduating people of marrying age aware of the considerations of marriage going forward. This would at least implant in people's minds what a serious RESPONSIBILITY it can be in addition to a relationship. This would be followed up by pre-marital counseling for any couples that felt they were ready to be married. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Whatever happened to love one another, Rainbow? I'm not completely sure but I certainly have my own opinion on the matter based on observation. I do know that far too many people assume to know their emotions and mislabel other emotions to be 'love' when it really isn't anywhere close to that at all. I know that far too many people don't take the time to understand themselves much less another person with whom they wish to be in relationship. Most people go an entire lifetime without thinking of cultivating a relationship with himself or herself first before venturing out into the world and establishing a relationship with another. Far too many people buy into the illusion of romance and love and flowers and chocolates; far too few people work at the reality of romance and love and flaws and assets. What ever happened to truly getting to know someone you like before moving in with them, then having children, then getting married? That's what I mean. For the most part, people have tossed out important parts required for growing a stable love relationship, and then mixed up the rest to fit in with the rest of their life. And that's why relationships seem to fall apart much more than stay together. Raven > > > Raven: " Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than > stay together. " > > This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around. > > What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing? > > Rainbow > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 > Raven: "What ever happened to truly getting to know someone you like before moving in with them, then having children, then getting married? That's what I mean.  For the most part, people have tossed out important parts required for growing a stable love relationship, and then mixed up the rest to fit in with the rest of their life.""And that's why relationships seem to fall apart much more than stay together."I agree!  Rainbow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 > Raven: "What ever happened to truly getting to know someone you like before moving in with them, then having children, then getting married? That's what I mean.  For the most part, people have tossed out important parts required for growing a stable love relationship, and then mixed up the rest to fit in with the rest of their life.""And that's why relationships seem to fall apart much more than stay together."I agree!  Rainbow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 In a message dated 3/6/2006 1:05:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, msaraann@... writes: As I understand it, tubal ligation is a major surgery for a woman, isnot reversible, and carries some significant risks including tubalpregnancy. Sterilization for men or women isn't always safe oreffective. I do agree that a couple's relationship should be securebefore having children, but most methods of chemical or surgical birthcontrol are damaging in one way or another.-sara There are kinds that are. A chemical type like a newer norplant device would be better, or failing that at least birth control pills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 In a message dated 3/6/2006 1:05:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, msaraann@... writes: As I understand it, tubal ligation is a major surgery for a woman, isnot reversible, and carries some significant risks including tubalpregnancy. Sterilization for men or women isn't always safe oreffective. I do agree that a couple's relationship should be securebefore having children, but most methods of chemical or surgical birthcontrol are damaging in one way or another.-sara There are kinds that are. A chemical type like a newer norplant device would be better, or failing that at least birth control pills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 > To ensure that no children, a complicating factor, would be conceived during this time, the woman could have a temporary tubal ligation or other long-term yet reversible method of birth control used. I say the women rather than men because several such options current exist for women but not men, the female system with its once monthly production of eggs being much easier to handle than the constant production of millions of sperm in men. As I understand it, tubal ligation is a major surgery for a woman, is not reversible, and carries some significant risks including tubal pregnancy. Sterilization for men or women isn't always safe or effective. I do agree that a couple's relationship should be secure before having children, but most methods of chemical or surgical birth control are damaging in one way or another. -sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I had an article about love but I can't find it. It said that a chemical is released in the brain that causes attraction and romantic love but this only lasts about 2 years and is replaced with another chemical that is more like attachment and a caring, family kind of love. The article cited this as one cause of the many breakups-- marriage was based on attraction and romance and when that was gone, the attachment and caring was either not there or it was felt that since the romance and excitement was gone, there was no value for them. > > >From: " Rainbow . " <rainbow@...> > > >> Raven: " Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together. " > >> This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around > > > What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing? > > Perhaps the " it's all about me " and " love one another " aspect is statistically insignificant. In other words, those things affect relationships, but hadn't varied enough to account for radical changes in how many relationships fall apart. > > As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. > > What has changed is our social structure. At the same time, we are attempting to apply the old model of marriage and family relationships. Never mind the implications of the effect of an NT social institution on autistics, because we see that this just doesn't work for NTs either. People (of course including NTs) do not regard marriage, sex and children as they did 50 years ago. > > The same thing happens with extended families (except that NTs acknowledge it). In agrarian societies, people stayed at one place and supported their elders. With urbanization and mobility, the underlying living arrangements don't exist. The social obligations in this regard change within a generation. > > I would posit that in a modern society, we have a greater tendency to " love one another " , but less of a tendency to stay in fixed social structures and their resulting relationships. > > - s > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I had an article about love but I can't find it. It said that a chemical is released in the brain that causes attraction and romantic love but this only lasts about 2 years and is replaced with another chemical that is more like attachment and a caring, family kind of love. The article cited this as one cause of the many breakups-- marriage was based on attraction and romance and when that was gone, the attachment and caring was either not there or it was felt that since the romance and excitement was gone, there was no value for them. > > >From: " Rainbow . " <rainbow@...> > > >> Raven: " Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together. " > >> This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around > > > What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing? > > Perhaps the " it's all about me " and " love one another " aspect is statistically insignificant. In other words, those things affect relationships, but hadn't varied enough to account for radical changes in how many relationships fall apart. > > As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. > > What has changed is our social structure. At the same time, we are attempting to apply the old model of marriage and family relationships. Never mind the implications of the effect of an NT social institution on autistics, because we see that this just doesn't work for NTs either. People (of course including NTs) do not regard marriage, sex and children as they did 50 years ago. > > The same thing happens with extended families (except that NTs acknowledge it). In agrarian societies, people stayed at one place and supported their elders. With urbanization and mobility, the underlying living arrangements don't exist. The social obligations in this regard change within a generation. > > I would posit that in a modern society, we have a greater tendency to " love one another " , but less of a tendency to stay in fixed social structures and their resulting relationships. > > - s > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Good reason for long engagements then :-) A case of if I still love you after 2 and a half to 3 years - I'll consider mabye a commitment - only a maybe mind you ;-) > > I had an article about love but I can't find it. It said that a > chemical is released in the brain that causes attraction and romantic > love but this only lasts about 2 years and is replaced with another > chemical that is more like attachment and a caring, family kind of > love. The article cited this as one cause of the many breakups-- > marriage was based on attraction and romance and when that was gone, > the attachment and caring was either not there or it was felt that > since the romance and excitement was gone, there was no value for > them. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 I've also read how marriages go through stages, almost like a growing process and you have to stick with it through the 'growing pains' to get the results. Then they reach the stage that many older couples are at, where they are very close and really love each other. They often die of broken hearts after their mate dies. > > > > I had an article about love but I can't find it. It said that a > > chemical is released in the brain that causes attraction and > romantic > > love but this only lasts about 2 years and is replaced with another > > chemical that is more like attachment and a caring, family kind of > > love. The article cited this as one cause of the many breakups-- > > marriage was based on attraction and romance and when that was > gone, > > the attachment and caring was either not there or it was felt that > > since the romance and excitement was gone, there was no value for > > them. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 I would say that emotions are created in the emotional body and the chemicals in question are the physical EFFECT of the feeling, not the other way around. Emotion is energy (= matter in movement = e-motion). When the energy in something is exhausted, it simply is. And is therefore no longer stimulating the brain into producing the chemical associated with that emotion. Passion & desire has a very strong energy that tends to burn itself out fairly soon, whereas friendship and family feelings are more mellow and non-intense (plus that friendship and bonding involves more than just emotion). They therefore tend to last a lot longer and often even deepen and grow. It thus really does make sense to not base long-term relationships - especially if they include children - on passion alone. Inger Re: Lady Friend Update I had an article about love but I can't find it. It said that a chemical is released in the brain that causes attraction and romantic love but this only lasts about 2 years and is replaced with another chemical that is more like attachment and a caring, family kind of love. The article cited this as one cause of the many breakups-- marriage was based on attraction and romance and when that was gone, the attachment and caring was either not there or it was felt that since the romance and excitement was gone, there was no value for them. > > >From: " Rainbow . " <rainbow@...> > > >> Raven: " Relationships these days seem to fall apart much more than stay together. " > >> This happens because of the 'it's all about me' thing going around > > > What ever happened to the 'love one another' thing? > > Perhaps the " it's all about me " and " love one another " aspect is statistically insignificant. In other words, those things affect relationships, but hadn't varied enough to account for radical changes in how many relationships fall apart. > > As a case in point, consider that it has been suggested that 200 years ago, romantic love was much less a factor in marriage. > > What has changed is our social structure. At the same time, we are attempting to apply the old model of marriage and family relationships. Never mind the implications of the effect of an NT social institution on autistics, because we see that this just doesn't work for NTs either. People (of course including NTs) do not regard marriage, sex and children as they did 50 years ago. > > The same thing happens with extended families (except that NTs acknowledge it). In agrarian societies, people stayed at one place and supported their elders. With urbanization and mobility, the underlying living arrangements don't exist. The social obligations in this regard change within a generation. > > I would posit that in a modern society, we have a greater tendency to " love one another " , but less of a tendency to stay in fixed social structures and their resulting relationships. > > - s > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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