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Re:

> ... is there some sort of receptive pattern that can derived ...

Sorry, I don't know what this means (whether I do, or don't, read the

rest of the sentence around it.

Good luck with your college work. Please do take time to visit and

talk with a professor of linguistics. Their knowledge on the subject

differs greatly from what the grammar textbooks provide. These

professors have found that the textbooks actualy describe English

grammar incorrectly, so they'd agree with you on staying far from such

textbooks. Professors of linguistics have their own, very different

approach to English and its grammar: an approach which I think you

should take time to explore.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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Re:

> ... is there some sort of receptive pattern that can derived ...

Sorry, I don't know what this means (whether I do, or don't, read the

rest of the sentence around it.

Good luck with your college work. Please do take time to visit and

talk with a professor of linguistics. Their knowledge on the subject

differs greatly from what the grammar textbooks provide. These

professors have found that the textbooks actualy describe English

grammar incorrectly, so they'd agree with you on staying far from such

textbooks. Professors of linguistics have their own, very different

approach to English and its grammar: an approach which I think you

should take time to explore.

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

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This is a great time to clear up a misunderstanding, Kate. For

, it may very well sound like " Confussion " and " Confusion " are

identical, due to one or more things:

1. Local dialect and speech patterns

2. Auditory processing issues

3. Make up your own thing here!

While I have exceptionally sensitive hearing that includes a range up

to 32 Khz (I've personally tested up to this frequency, but didn't

have anything to test higher) I can't always clearly delineate between

certain speech sounds, such as dipthongs and phonemes, especially with

other background noise, which is almost always present (if you pay

close attention, you'll find that reality is rarely silent in the

background) to the point that some things are impossible for me to

clearly make out. I have a hellish time with most songs, for example,

clearly more than the ordinary person, and yet, I can hear beyond what

can be recorded on a CD (which can record frequencies up to 22.05 Khz,

which is above what most people can actually hear) which isn't always

a nice thing to be able to do.

I took one semester of German at IUPUI, and that was far from easy for

me to correctly hear the differences of pronunciation between German

and English, and to also say it, for the same reasons. You can't

readily speak what you can't hear and expect it to be " correct " unless

you have proper feedback as to what is " correct " when you do it. To

someone that's deaf, they may very well be reproducing what they can

hear through their hearing aids quite well, and be frustrated

wondering " Why can't they understand what I'm saying? I'm saying it

perfectly clearly, as speech therapy has made obvious! " when to the

otherwise-normal person, they have all sorts of weird noises thrown

into their speech, making it impossible or very difficult for them to

make sense out of.

Just a few thoughts on an important reality-based topic.

>

> My computer had a glitch between " you " and " words " in the previous

> message, at the point where I should have typed " spell " ; I'll try

> again:

>

> - the spelling " confussion " contradicts your earlier statement

> that you spell words as they sound. If a word " confussion " existed,

it would

> sound very different from the word " confusion " which I suppose you

> meant to spell.

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

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We are not all perfect spellers here - I know I am not and quite

often make typo's too - the reply to messages does not have a spell

check with it and if I constantly had to check every single word then

I would never post. Also things like dsylexia(sp?) might confound

issues of spelling etc.

If I do not understand someone's post I would ask for clarification -

respectfully and if I still didn't understand and it was important to

me I would seek further clarification. We all make mistakes.

> > Phonetically, it sounds like " idealism " which is in the

dictionary.

>

> So?

>

> Accurately (rather than approximately/sloppily) applying the complex

> and exception-rife patterns of English spelling accurately, rather

> than approximately (which I learned to do as part of learning to

read

> and spell accurately) yields the non-existent " ID-ee-oh-lizz-um "

> (rather than " ie-DEE-uh-lizz-um " ) as the spoken counterpart of the

> non-existent " idiolism. "

> 's weak grasp of those patterns does not always leave

his

> writing easily intelligible.

>

> If I wrote " colonel, " would you reasonably expect that others ought

to

> read it as " colonial " because the two resemble each other about as

> much as " idiolism " resembles " idealism " ?

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite,

http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

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With all the 'spell checkers ' in this forum and grammar experts, I'm

afraid to post at all!

greebohere wrote:

> We are not all perfect spellers here - I know I am not and quite

> often make typo's too - the reply to messages does not have a spell

> check with it and if I constantly had to check every single word then

> I would never post. Also things like dsylexia(sp?) might confound

> issues of spelling etc.

>

> If I do not understand someone's post I would ask for clarification -

> respectfully and if I still didn't understand and it was important to

> me I would seek further clarification. We all make mistakes.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > Phonetically, it sounds like " idealism " which is in the

> dictionary.

> >

> > So?

> >

> > Accurately (rather than approximately/sloppily) applying the complex

> > and exception-rife patterns of English spelling accurately, rather

> > than approximately (which I learned to do as part of learning to

> read

> > and spell accurately) yields the non-existent " ID-ee-oh-lizz-um "

> > (rather than " ie-DEE-uh-lizz-um " ) as the spoken counterpart of the

> > non-existent " idiolism. "

> > 's weak grasp of those patterns does not always leave

> his

> > writing easily intelligible.

> >

> > If I wrote " colonel, " would you reasonably expect that others ought

> to

> > read it as " colonial " because the two resemble each other about as

> > much as " idiolism " resembles " idealism " ?

> >

> >

> > Yours for better letters,

> > Kate Gladstone

> > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > handwritingrepair@...

> > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > telephone 518/482-6763

> > AND REMEMBER ...

> > you can order books through my site!

> > (Amazon.com link -

> > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in

> the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

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With all the 'spell checkers ' in this forum and grammar experts, I'm

afraid to post at all!

greebohere wrote:

> We are not all perfect spellers here - I know I am not and quite

> often make typo's too - the reply to messages does not have a spell

> check with it and if I constantly had to check every single word then

> I would never post. Also things like dsylexia(sp?) might confound

> issues of spelling etc.

>

> If I do not understand someone's post I would ask for clarification -

> respectfully and if I still didn't understand and it was important to

> me I would seek further clarification. We all make mistakes.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > Phonetically, it sounds like " idealism " which is in the

> dictionary.

> >

> > So?

> >

> > Accurately (rather than approximately/sloppily) applying the complex

> > and exception-rife patterns of English spelling accurately, rather

> > than approximately (which I learned to do as part of learning to

> read

> > and spell accurately) yields the non-existent " ID-ee-oh-lizz-um "

> > (rather than " ie-DEE-uh-lizz-um " ) as the spoken counterpart of the

> > non-existent " idiolism. "

> > 's weak grasp of those patterns does not always leave

> his

> > writing easily intelligible.

> >

> > If I wrote " colonel, " would you reasonably expect that others ought

> to

> > read it as " colonial " because the two resemble each other about as

> > much as " idiolism " resembles " idealism " ?

> >

> >

> > Yours for better letters,

> > Kate Gladstone

> > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > handwritingrepair@...

> > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > telephone 518/482-6763

> > AND REMEMBER ...

> > you can order books through my site!

> > (Amazon.com link -

> > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in

> the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

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Yeah, I've been thinking about this - please do not be afraid to post

by the way.

To Kate; Do you really not comprehend what is saying? - can

you not just pick up the gist of it? - it does rather appear that you

are picking up on every little error. I notice errors in 's

posts, but mostly automatically realise what he was getting at and if

I do not and want to know I ask.

>

> > We are not all perfect spellers here - I know I am not and quite

> > often make typo's too - the reply to messages does not have a

spell

> > check with it and if I constantly had to check every single word

then

> > I would never post. Also things like dsylexia(sp?) might confound

> > issues of spelling etc.

> >

> > If I do not understand someone's post I would ask for

clarification -

> > respectfully and if I still didn't understand and it was

important to

> > me I would seek further clarification. We all make mistakes.

> >

> >

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Well, thanks, " Strict Non-Conformist, " for explaining all that.

Re:

> I can't always clearly delineate between

> certain speech sounds, such as dipthongs and phonemes,

I know the word " phoneme " as a synonym for " speech sound. "

Did you really mean to write what adds up to " certain speech sounds,

such as diphthongs and speech sounds, " or did you attach some other

meaning to " phoneme " ?

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

diphthong: A complex speech sound or glide that begins with one

vowel and gradually changes to another vowel within the same syllable,

as (oi) in boil or () in fine.

phoneme: The smallest phonetic unit in a language that is capable of

conveying a distinction in meaning, as the m of mat and the b of bat

in English.

They are not identical things, but both are required; they do fall

under the higher level of abstraction of " speech sounds " though, at

least for spoken human languages I'm aware of in terms of their

structure. I'll leave the possibility open that there are or could be

humanly-spoken languages that are purely diphthong-based and those

that are purely phoneme-based, but in either case, if you have

auditory processing issues (look up " Central Auditory Processing

Disorder " ) recognizing them may be difficult or impossible, and

furthermore, the difficulty might depend on the composite waveform of

the speaker's voice and the mix of frequencies. In fact, a very good

way to see how difficult it can be to process speech properly for a

human with problems making sense of it is to note that it is far from

an easy task to have speaker-independent speech recognition that's

anywhere near as reliable as a normal human's ability.

Back in the day when Apple came out with the Macintosh Quadra 840 AV,

it was advertised as having " speaker-independent speech recognition "

that you could use to command it to do certain things. My employer

bought one for the department I worked in, and during some downtime, I

did some experimentation, as did many others in the department, which

is fully expected when the department requires computer geeks for all

but management tasks :P At the time, the hard drive boot volume had

the standard label of " Macintosh HD " which I don't recall if that was

what Apple assigned it by default, but that's what we had named it.

Some people in the department had better luck than others getting it

to do what they wanted, because their speech profile was more of what

was expected, apparently. The department supervisor was unable to get

it to understand him. I had limited success getting it to recognize

what I asked it to do. Just out of curiosity, combined with

recognizing and understanding the inherent problems, I decided to see

what various words after " computer " would do, to see how bad the

recognition was. Some of the time, if I spoke into the microphone and

said " Computer open Macintosh HD " it would actually open the Finder

window to the root directory, but most of the time it would not. I

got silly, while being logical, and figured that sharp distinguished

phonemes would be easier to decipher for the computer, and started

using random words. For opening the root folder, the one command that

worked 100% of the time for *that* task was " computer burp! " which

amused my coworkers when I demonstrated that to them. Needless to

say, that was a feature not really utilized on that computer at work :P

>

> Well, thanks, " Strict Non-Conformist, " for explaining all that.

>

> Re:

>

> > I can't always clearly delineate between

> > certain speech sounds, such as dipthongs and phonemes,

>

> I know the word " phoneme " as a synonym for " speech sound. "

> Did you really mean to write what adds up to " certain speech sounds,

> such as diphthongs and speech sounds, " or did you attach some other

> meaning to " phoneme " ?

>

>

> Yours for better letters,

> Kate Gladstone

> Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> handwritingrepair@...

> http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> 325 South Manning Boulevard

> Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> telephone 518/482-6763

> AND REMEMBER ...

> you can order books through my site!

> (Amazon.com link -

> I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

>

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What interesting material about sounds and computers! Thanks for posting it!

Yours for better letters,

Kate Gladstone

Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

handwritingrepair@...

http://learn.to/handwrite, http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

325 South Manning Boulevard

Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

telephone 518/482-6763

AND REMEMBER ...

you can order books through my site!

(Amazon.com link -

I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

Link to comment
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