Re: The preils of gossip and being social.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I understand they're upset but people need to stop always

trying to find someone to blame. And sue. I heard the company did not

correct them right away, but 3 hours later, because they wanted to

confirm exactly what happened. It would have been worse, in my

opinion, to come back right away and say 12 were dead, one critical

if all 13 were dead when they finally got to them.

>

> I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I

certainly

> do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are closest to

> this tragedy.

>

> But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the 12

> miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry.

>

> At who?

>

> At the relatives of the miners.

>

> Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around

> saying " They're alive! All of them! "

>

> This morning they were saying: " They lied to us! I'll sue! "

>

> Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is that

> they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue efforts,

> overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send

> ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon.

>

> That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying " Praise

> Jesus. " The governor, without checking to see what was fact and

what

> was myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked this

up

> and ran with it.

>

> And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd been

> there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up too

high

> because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I would

> have been trounced.

>

> Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited about

> something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then the

> people they ought to sue are themselves.

>

> I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I know

> that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to become fact

> in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact that

> the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided I have

> MY facts straight- was themselves.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

>

>

http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A

> tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

>

> 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead

>

> By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer

> 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

>

> TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking reversal,

> family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13 trapped coal

> miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating news

> that they were alive.

>

> The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition but

> showing no sign of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning after

> being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy was the

> youngest in the group.

>

> The devastating new information about the others shocked and

angered

> family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours

earlier

> when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive. Rescue

> crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.

>

> " I can only say there was no one who did anything intentionally

> other than risk their lives to save their loved ones, " Manchin told

> ABC's " Good Morning America. "

>

> " No one can say anything about that would make anything any

better, "

> he said. " Just a horrible situation. "

>

> McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a hospital,

> the hospital said.

>

> McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West Virginia

> University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he remained

> in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and on a

> ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate sign of

> brain damage.

>

> " He responds to stimuli and that's good, " Dr. Lawrence said

> at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning, he

> said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors said

> that McCloy's age may have helped him.

>

> Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he found

> out his son-in law was the only survivor, " I was still devastated.

> My whole family's heart goes out to them other families. "

>

> Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface of the

> Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is located

about

> 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to get

to

> the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an

> emotional two-day vigil.

>

> But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the church,

> yelling " They're alive! " The church's bells began ringing and

> families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the apparent

> rescue a miracle.

>

> As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what families

> believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet knowing

> there were no others.

>

> Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors, he

later

> indicated he was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed through

> the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going on, he

> said.

>

> " All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state, and all

> the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my

> detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because we

were

> wired in and we didn't know, " Manchin said.

>

> International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield

blamed

> the wrong information on a " miscommunication. " The news spread

after

> people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality, rescuers

had

> only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their vital

> signs. At least two family members in the church said they received

> cell phone calls from a mine foreman.

>

> " That information spread like wildfire, because it had come from

the

> command center, " he said.

>

> Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that " there had been

a

> lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and that

> only one survived, " said Groves, whose brother Jerry Groves

was

> one of the trapped miners.

>

> " There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was immediately out

> the door, " said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms.

>

> Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a dozen

> state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road near

> the church because police were concerned about violence. Witnesses

> said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged for

> mining officials.

>

> Company officials waited to correct the information until they knew

> more about the rescue, Hatfield said.

>

> " Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to celebrate? I

> didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive), " Hatfield

> said.

>

> The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since

> November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin — died

> in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n County,

> an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain entombed in

> the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to pass

> the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969.

>

> It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions tore

> through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood, Ala., on

> Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13.

>

> Federal Department of Labor officials promised an investigation.

> Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine Safety and

> Health Administration, said it will include " how emergency

> information was relayed about the trapped miners' conditions. "

>

> The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had

> constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found near

where

> the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an attempt to

> contact the men.

>

> The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area about 20

> feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is

> designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had carried a

> breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

mining

> officials.

>

> The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine, which

> revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The odorless,

> colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels, it can

> cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue and

> brain damage.

>

> Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in miracles,

> tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

>

> " We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13, " he

said.

>

> ___

>

> Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark

> in Tallmansville contributed to this report.

>

[Guest guest]

What angered me about this was what came later.

Later in the night, the press was interviewing the Governor. Question after question was about who in particular said that miners had been found alive. It was like the press was more interested in this "scandal" than in anything else. The tragedy was no longer enough for them or even had been forgotten because now they had this big juicy story about a "lie" as they were calling it.

Those press vultures were making me sick. I have to hand it to the Governor though: he managed to keep his cool and didn't tell them off like I would have after asking the same questions over and over again, and some of those newsies were getting petulant.

What happened was a tragic miscommunication. That's it. Period. End of story. If this story wasn't big enough for them as is was, they could take their sensationalist seeking selves and jump down a mind shaft. The governor should have sent the worst of them down into the mine to see the actual disaster site. Make them walk in just like the rescuers did in full kit. Better still, some of those big mouths should be sent in there to help bring out the dead.

The press these days has no sense of propriety or decency anymore.

[Guest guest]

There is another point here to all of this. Mine accidents happen all around the world every year. Here we had one where 13 people died. Last year there was a story out of China where some 600 miners died in a single accident and several such accidents happen every year there. Now and then you hear of a few hundred dying in a Russian or Ukrainian mine. More of those accidents are sure so be happening, but word just doesn't get out because over there the state owns both the mines and the media.

We got off pretty lucky with just 13 dead. It could have been worse had it not been the safety standards we have, even if a few were violated here.

[Guest guest]

I don't know. To have the false hope (because no-one checked the

validation of the source information - and I suppose people want to

believe the best, no fault there) maybe it is better to think loved

ones are dead then to realise they are actually alive than to believe

they have survived only to find out they are actually dead? I don't

know maybe people see this differently.

Looking for someone to Sue though? Sueing won't bring them back.

> >

> > I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I

> certainly

> > do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are closest

to

> > this tragedy.

> >

> > But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the 12

> > miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry.

> >

> > At who?

> >

> > At the relatives of the miners.

> >

> > Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around

> > saying " They're alive! All of them! "

> >

> > This morning they were saying: " They lied to us! I'll sue! "

> >

> > Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is that

> > they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue

efforts,

> > overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send

> > ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon.

> >

> > That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying " Praise

> > Jesus. " The governor, without checking to see what was fact and

> what

> > was myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked this

> up

> > and ran with it.

> >

> > And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd been

> > there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up too

> high

> > because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I would

> > have been trounced.

> >

> > Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited

about

> > something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then the

> > people they ought to sue are themselves.

> >

> > I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I know

> > that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to become

fact

> > in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact that

> > the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided I

have

> > MY facts straight- was themselves.

> >

> > Tom

> > Administrator

> >

> >

> >

>

http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A

> > tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

> >

> > 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead

> >

> > By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer

> > 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

> >

> > TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking reversal,

> > family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13 trapped

coal

> > miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating news

> > that they were alive.

> >

> > The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition but

> > showing no sign of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning

after

> > being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy was

the

> > youngest in the group.

> >

> > The devastating new information about the others shocked and

> angered

> > family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours

> earlier

> > when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive. Rescue

> > crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.

> >

> > " I can only say there was no one who did anything intentionally

> > other than risk their lives to save their loved ones, " Manchin

told

> > ABC's " Good Morning America. "

> >

> > " No one can say anything about that would make anything any

> better, "

> > he said. " Just a horrible situation. "

> >

> > McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a hospital,

> > the hospital said.

> >

> > McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West

Virginia

> > University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he

remained

> > in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and on

a

> > ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate sign

of

> > brain damage.

> >

> > " He responds to stimuli and that's good, " Dr. Lawrence

said

> > at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning, he

> > said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors

said

> > that McCloy's age may have helped him.

> >

> > Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he

found

> > out his son-in law was the only survivor, " I was still

devastated.

> > My whole family's heart goes out to them other families. "

> >

> > Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface of

the

> > Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is located

> about

> > 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to get

> to

> > the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an

> > emotional two-day vigil.

> >

> > But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the

church,

> > yelling " They're alive! " The church's bells began ringing and

> > families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the apparent

> > rescue a miracle.

> >

> > As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what families

> > believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet knowing

> > there were no others.

> >

> > Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors, he

> later

> > indicated he was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed through

> > the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going on,

he

> > said.

> >

> > " All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state, and

all

> > the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my

> > detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because we

> were

> > wired in and we didn't know, " Manchin said.

> >

> > International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield

> blamed

> > the wrong information on a " miscommunication. " The news spread

> after

> > people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality, rescuers

> had

> > only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their vital

> > signs. At least two family members in the church said they

received

> > cell phone calls from a mine foreman.

> >

> > " That information spread like wildfire, because it had come from

> the

> > command center, " he said.

> >

> > Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that " there had

been

> a

> > lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and that

> > only one survived, " said Groves, whose brother Jerry Groves

> was

> > one of the trapped miners.

> >

> > " There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was immediately

out

> > the door, " said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms.

> >

> > Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a dozen

> > state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road

near

> > the church because police were concerned about violence.

Witnesses

> > said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged for

> > mining officials.

> >

> > Company officials waited to correct the information until they

knew

> > more about the rescue, Hatfield said.

> >

> > " Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to celebrate? I

> > didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive), " Hatfield

> > said.

> >

> > The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since

> > November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin —

died

> > in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n

County,

> > an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain entombed in

> > the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to pass

> > the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969.

> >

> > It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions tore

> > through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood, Ala.,

on

> > Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13.

> >

> > Federal Department of Labor officials promised an investigation.

> > Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine Safety

and

> > Health Administration, said it will include " how emergency

> > information was relayed about the trapped miners' conditions. "

> >

> > The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had

> > constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found near

> where

> > the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an attempt

to

> > contact the men.

> >

> > The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area about

20

> > feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is

> > designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had carried a

> > breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

> mining

> > officials.

> >

> > The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine, which

> > revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The odorless,

> > colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels, it

can

> > cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue and

> > brain damage.

> >

> > Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in

miracles,

> > tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

> >

> > " We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13, " he

> said.

> >

> > ___

> >

> > Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark

> > in Tallmansville contributed to this report.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-Now are they sure they are all dead?i have a hard time trusting

anything until i see them carry the deceased out on stretchers.That's

why the Governor was so STUPID to jump the gun and give false hope.It

is best to be cautious and not assume ANYTHING in situations like

this,where one cannot directly see what is going on! Kajira

-- In , " mikecarrie01 "

<mikecarrie01@y...> wrote:

>

> Yeah, I understand they're upset but people need to stop always

> trying to find someone to blame. And sue. I heard the company did

not

> correct them right away, but 3 hours later, because they wanted to

> confirm exactly what happened. It would have been worse, in my

> opinion, to come back right away and say 12 were dead, one critical

> if all 13 were dead when they finally got to them.

>

>

> >

> > I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I

> certainly

> > do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are closest

to

> > this tragedy.

> >

> > But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the 12

> > miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry.

> >

> > At who?

> >

> > At the relatives of the miners.

> >

> > Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around

> > saying " They're alive! All of them! "

> >

> > This morning they were saying: " They lied to us! I'll sue! "

> >

> > Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is that

> > they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue

efforts,

> > overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send

> > ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon.

> >

> > That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying " Praise

> > Jesus. " The governor, without checking to see what was fact and

> what

> > was myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked this

> up

> > and ran with it.

> >

> > And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd been

> > there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up too

> high

> > because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I would

> > have been trounced.

> >

> > Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited

about

> > something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then the

> > people they ought to sue are themselves.

> >

> > I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I know

> > that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to become

fact

> > in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact that

> > the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided I

have

> > MY facts straight- was themselves.

> >

> > Tom

> > Administrator

> >

> >

> >

>

http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A

> > tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

> >

> > 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead

> >

> > By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer

> > 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

> >

> > TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking reversal,

> > family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13 trapped

coal

> > miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating news

> > that they were alive.

> >

> > The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition but

> > showing no sign of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning

after

> > being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy was

the

> > youngest in the group.

> >

> > The devastating new information about the others shocked and

> angered

> > family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours

> earlier

> > when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive. Rescue

> > crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.

> >

> > " I can only say there was no one who did anything intentionally

> > other than risk their lives to save their loved ones, " Manchin

told

> > ABC's " Good Morning America. "

> >

> > " No one can say anything about that would make anything any

> better, "

> > he said. " Just a horrible situation. "

> >

> > McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a hospital,

> > the hospital said.

> >

> > McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West

Virginia

> > University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he

remained

> > in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and on

a

> > ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate sign

of

> > brain damage.

> >

> > " He responds to stimuli and that's good, " Dr. Lawrence

said

> > at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning, he

> > said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors

said

> > that McCloy's age may have helped him.

> >

> > Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he

found

> > out his son-in law was the only survivor, " I was still

devastated.

> > My whole family's heart goes out to them other families. "

> >

> > Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface of

the

> > Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is located

> about

> > 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to get

> to

> > the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an

> > emotional two-day vigil.

> >

> > But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the

church,

> > yelling " They're alive! " The church's bells began ringing and

> > families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the apparent

> > rescue a miracle.

> >

> > As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what families

> > believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet knowing

> > there were no others.

> >

> > Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors, he

> later

> > indicated he was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed through

> > the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going on,

he

> > said.

> >

> > " All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state, and

all

> > the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my

> > detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because we

> were

> > wired in and we didn't know, " Manchin said.

> >

> > International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield

> blamed

> > the wrong information on a " miscommunication. " The news spread

> after

> > people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality, rescuers

> had

> > only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their vital

> > signs. At least two family members in the church said they

received

> > cell phone calls from a mine foreman.

> >

> > " That information spread like wildfire, because it had come from

> the

> > command center, " he said.

> >

> > Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that " there had

been

> a

> > lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and that

> > only one survived, " said Groves, whose brother Jerry Groves

> was

> > one of the trapped miners.

> >

> > " There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was immediately

out

> > the door, " said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms.

> >

> > Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a dozen

> > state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road

near

> > the church because police were concerned about violence.

Witnesses

> > said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged for

> > mining officials.

> >

> > Company officials waited to correct the information until they

knew

> > more about the rescue, Hatfield said.

> >

> > " Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to celebrate? I

> > didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive), " Hatfield

> > said.

> >

> > The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since

> > November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin —

died

> > in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n

County,

> > an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain entombed in

> > the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to pass

> > the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969.

> >

> > It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions tore

> > through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood, Ala.,

on

> > Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13.

> >

> > Federal Department of Labor officials promised an investigation.

> > Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine Safety

and

> > Health Administration, said it will include " how emergency

> > information was relayed about the trapped miners' conditions. "

> >

> > The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had

> > constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found near

> where

> > the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an attempt

to

> > contact the men.

> >

> > The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area about

20

> > feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is

> > designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had carried a

> > breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

> mining

> > officials.

> >

> > The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine, which

> > revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The odorless,

> > colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels, it

can

> > cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue and

> > brain damage.

> >

> > Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in

miracles,

> > tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

> >

> > " We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13, " he

> said.

> >

> > ___

> >

> > Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark

> > in Tallmansville contributed to this report.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-Personally,if i had a loved one trapped in a situation like that,i

would rather hear something realistic,like, " well we really cannot be

sure if these people are alive or dead,we are doing our best to

rescue them,but it's a very dangerous situation " . Kajira

-- In , " greebohere "

<julie.stevenson16@n...> wrote:

>

> I don't know. To have the false hope (because no-one checked the

> validation of the source information - and I suppose people want to

> believe the best, no fault there) maybe it is better to think loved

> ones are dead then to realise they are actually alive than to

believe

> they have survived only to find out they are actually dead? I don't

> know maybe people see this differently.

>

> Looking for someone to Sue though? Sueing won't bring them back.

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I

> > certainly

> > > do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are closest

> to

> > > this tragedy.

> > >

> > > But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the 12

> > > miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry.

> > >

> > > At who?

> > >

> > > At the relatives of the miners.

> > >

> > > Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around

> > > saying " They're alive! All of them! "

> > >

> > > This morning they were saying: " They lied to us! I'll sue! "

> > >

> > > Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is

that

> > > they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue

> efforts,

> > > overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send

> > > ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon.

> > >

> > > That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying " Praise

> > > Jesus. " The governor, without checking to see what was fact and

> > what

> > > was myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked

this

> > up

> > > and ran with it.

> > >

> > > And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd

been

> > > there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up too

> > high

> > > because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I

would

> > > have been trounced.

> > >

> > > Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited

> about

> > > something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then

the

> > > people they ought to sue are themselves.

> > >

> > > I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I

know

> > > that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to become

> fact

> > > in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact

that

> > > the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided I

> have

> > > MY facts straight- was themselves.

> > >

> > > Tom

> > > Administrator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A

> > > tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

> > >

> > > 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead

> > >

> > > By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer

> > > 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

> > >

> > > TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking

reversal,

> > > family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13 trapped

> coal

> > > miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating

news

> > > that they were alive.

> > >

> > > The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition but

> > > showing no sign of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning

> after

> > > being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy was

> the

> > > youngest in the group.

> > >

> > > The devastating new information about the others shocked and

> > angered

> > > family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours

> > earlier

> > > when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive. Rescue

> > > crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.

> > >

> > > " I can only say there was no one who did anything intentionally

> > > other than risk their lives to save their loved ones, " Manchin

> told

> > > ABC's " Good Morning America. "

> > >

> > > " No one can say anything about that would make anything any

> > better, "

> > > he said. " Just a horrible situation. "

> > >

> > > McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a

hospital,

> > > the hospital said.

> > >

> > > McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West

> Virginia

> > > University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he

> remained

> > > in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and

on

> a

> > > ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate sign

> of

> > > brain damage.

> > >

> > > " He responds to stimuli and that's good, " Dr. Lawrence

> said

> > > at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning,

he

> > > said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors

> said

> > > that McCloy's age may have helped him.

> > >

> > > Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he

> found

> > > out his son-in law was the only survivor, " I was still

> devastated.

> > > My whole family's heart goes out to them other families. "

> > >

> > > Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface of

> the

> > > Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is located

> > about

> > > 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to

get

> > to

> > > the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an

> > > emotional two-day vigil.

> > >

> > > But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the

> church,

> > > yelling " They're alive! " The church's bells began ringing and

> > > families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the

apparent

> > > rescue a miracle.

> > >

> > > As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what families

> > > believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet

knowing

> > > there were no others.

> > >

> > > Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors, he

> > later

> > > indicated he was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed

through

> > > the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going

on,

> he

> > > said.

> > >

> > > " All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state, and

> all

> > > the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my

> > > detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because we

> > were

> > > wired in and we didn't know, " Manchin said.

> > >

> > > International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield

> > blamed

> > > the wrong information on a " miscommunication. " The news spread

> > after

> > > people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality,

rescuers

> > had

> > > only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their vital

> > > signs. At least two family members in the church said they

> received

> > > cell phone calls from a mine foreman.

> > >

> > > " That information spread like wildfire, because it had come

from

> > the

> > > command center, " he said.

> > >

> > > Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that " there had

> been

> > a

> > > lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and

that

> > > only one survived, " said Groves, whose brother Jerry

Groves

> > was

> > > one of the trapped miners.

> > >

> > > " There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was immediately

> out

> > > the door, " said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms.

> > >

> > > Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a

dozen

> > > state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road

> near

> > > the church because police were concerned about violence.

> Witnesses

> > > said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged

for

> > > mining officials.

> > >

> > > Company officials waited to correct the information until they

> knew

> > > more about the rescue, Hatfield said.

> > >

> > > " Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to celebrate?

I

> > > didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive), " Hatfield

> > > said.

> > >

> > > The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since

> > > November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin —

> died

> > > in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n

> County,

> > > an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain entombed

in

> > > the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to

pass

> > > the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969.

> > >

> > > It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions

tore

> > > through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood, Ala.,

> on

> > > Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13.

> > >

> > > Federal Department of Labor officials promised an

investigation.

> > > Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine Safety

> and

> > > Health Administration, said it will include " how emergency

> > > information was relayed about the trapped miners' conditions. "

> > >

> > > The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had

> > > constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found near

> > where

> > > the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an attempt

> to

> > > contact the men.

> > >

> > > The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area about

> 20

> > > feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is

> > > designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had carried

a

> > > breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

> > mining

> > > officials.

> > >

> > > The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine, which

> > > revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The odorless,

> > > colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels, it

> can

> > > cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue and

> > > brain damage.

> > >

> > > Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in

> miracles,

> > > tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

> > >

> > > " We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13, " he

> > said.

> > >

> > > ___

> > >

> > > Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark

> > > in Tallmansville contributed to this report.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-i am not against lawsuits(a dear friend is suing a hospital over

serious malpractice which killed his young wife,also a very dear

friend)but they have to make sense.If the families sue anyone,it

should be the mining company,if they can prove there were unsafe

condtions which should have been corrected. Kajira

-- In , " kajira_2001 "

<kajira_2001@y...> wrote:

>

> -Personally,if i had a loved one trapped in a situation like that,i

> would rather hear something realistic,like, " well we really cannot

be

> sure if these people are alive or dead,we are doing our best to

> rescue them,but it's a very dangerous situation " . Kajira

>

>

> -- In , " greebohere "

> <julie.stevenson16@n...> wrote:

> >

> > I don't know. To have the false hope (because no-one checked the

> > validation of the source information - and I suppose people want

to

> > believe the best, no fault there) maybe it is better to think

loved

> > ones are dead then to realise they are actually alive than to

> believe

> > they have survived only to find out they are actually dead? I

don't

> > know maybe people see this differently.

> >

> > Looking for someone to Sue though? Sueing won't bring them back.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I

> > > certainly

> > > > do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are

closest

> > to

> > > > this tragedy.

> > > >

> > > > But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the

12

> > > > miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry.

> > > >

> > > > At who?

> > > >

> > > > At the relatives of the miners.

> > > >

> > > > Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around

> > > > saying " They're alive! All of them! "

> > > >

> > > > This morning they were saying: " They lied to us! I'll sue! "

> > > >

> > > > Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is

> that

> > > > they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue

> > efforts,

> > > > overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send

> > > > ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon.

> > > >

> > > > That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying " Praise

> > > > Jesus. " The governor, without checking to see what was fact

and

> > > what

> > > > was myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked

> this

> > > up

> > > > and ran with it.

> > > >

> > > > And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd

> been

> > > > there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up

too

> > > high

> > > > because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I

> would

> > > > have been trounced.

> > > >

> > > > Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited

> > about

> > > > something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then

> the

> > > > people they ought to sue are themselves.

> > > >

> > > > I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I

> know

> > > > that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to

become

> > fact

> > > > in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact

> that

> > > > the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided

I

> > have

> > > > MY facts straight- was themselves.

> > > >

> > > > Tom

> > > > Administrator

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A

> > > > tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

> > > >

> > > > 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead

> > > >

> > > > By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer

> > > > 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

> > > >

> > > > TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking

> reversal,

> > > > family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13

trapped

> > coal

> > > > miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating

> news

> > > > that they were alive.

> > > >

> > > > The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition

but

> > > > showing no sign of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning

> > after

> > > > being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy

was

> > the

> > > > youngest in the group.

> > > >

> > > > The devastating new information about the others shocked and

> > > angered

> > > > family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours

> > > earlier

> > > > when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive.

Rescue

> > > > crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.

> > > >

> > > > " I can only say there was no one who did anything

intentionally

> > > > other than risk their lives to save their loved ones, "

Manchin

> > told

> > > > ABC's " Good Morning America. "

> > > >

> > > > " No one can say anything about that would make anything any

> > > better, "

> > > > he said. " Just a horrible situation. "

> > > >

> > > > McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a

> hospital,

> > > > the hospital said.

> > > >

> > > > McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West

> > Virginia

> > > > University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he

> > remained

> > > > in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and

> on

> > a

> > > > ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate

sign

> > of

> > > > brain damage.

> > > >

> > > > " He responds to stimuli and that's good, " Dr. Lawrence

> > said

> > > > at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide

poisoning,

> he

> > > > said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors

> > said

> > > > that McCloy's age may have helped him.

> > > >

> > > > Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he

> > found

> > > > out his son-in law was the only survivor, " I was still

> > devastated.

> > > > My whole family's heart goes out to them other families. "

> > > >

> > > > Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface

of

> > the

> > > > Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is

located

> > > about

> > > > 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to

> get

> > > to

> > > > the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an

> > > > emotional two-day vigil.

> > > >

> > > > But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the

> > church,

> > > > yelling " They're alive! " The church's bells began ringing and

> > > > families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the

> apparent

> > > > rescue a miracle.

> > > >

> > > > As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what

families

> > > > believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet

> knowing

> > > > there were no others.

> > > >

> > > > Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors,

he

> > > later

> > > > indicated he was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed

> through

> > > > the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going

> on,

> > he

> > > > said.

> > > >

> > > > " All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state,

and

> > all

> > > > the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my

> > > > detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because

we

> > > were

> > > > wired in and we didn't know, " Manchin said.

> > > >

> > > > International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield

> > > blamed

> > > > the wrong information on a " miscommunication. " The news

spread

> > > after

> > > > people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality,

> rescuers

> > > had

> > > > only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their

vital

> > > > signs. At least two family members in the church said they

> > received

> > > > cell phone calls from a mine foreman.

> > > >

> > > > " That information spread like wildfire, because it had come

> from

> > > the

> > > > command center, " he said.

> > > >

> > > > Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that " there had

> > been

> > > a

> > > > lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and

> that

> > > > only one survived, " said Groves, whose brother Jerry

> Groves

> > > was

> > > > one of the trapped miners.

> > > >

> > > > " There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was

immediately

> > out

> > > > the door, " said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms.

> > > >

> > > > Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a

> dozen

> > > > state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road

> > near

> > > > the church because police were concerned about violence.

> > Witnesses

> > > > said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged

> for

> > > > mining officials.

> > > >

> > > > Company officials waited to correct the information until

they

> > knew

> > > > more about the rescue, Hatfield said.

> > > >

> > > > " Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to

celebrate?

> I

> > > > didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive), "

Hatfield

> > > > said.

> > > >

> > > > The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since

> > > > November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin —

> > died

> > > > in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n

> > County,

> > > > an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain

entombed

> in

> > > > the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to

> pass

> > > > the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969.

> > > >

> > > > It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions

> tore

> > > > through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood,

Ala.,

> > on

> > > > Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13.

> > > >

> > > > Federal Department of Labor officials promised an

> investigation.

> > > > Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine

Safety

> > and

> > > > Health Administration, said it will include " how emergency

> > > > information was relayed about the trapped miners'

conditions. "

> > > >

> > > > The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had

> > > > constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found

near

> > > where

> > > > the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an

attempt

> > to

> > > > contact the men.

> > > >

> > > > The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area

about

> > 20

> > > > feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is

> > > > designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had

carried

> a

> > > > breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

> > > mining

> > > > officials.

> > > >

> > > > The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine,

which

> > > > revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The

odorless,

> > > > colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels,

it

> > can

> > > > cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue

and

> > > > brain damage.

> > > >

> > > > Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in

> > miracles,

> > > > tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

> > > >

> > > > " We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13, "

he

> > > said.

> > > >

> > > > ___

> > > >

> > > > Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark

> > > > in Tallmansville contributed to this report.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think one did survive, but there is some confusion on the numbers. They said at one point that one man had been found dead and apart from the others. I'm not sure if they included that one when they were talking about the other group or not.

I'm sure they try to be accurate as far as that goes, but the newspapers have always been driven by sensationalism. There have been complaints about that at least to the early 1800's if not earlier. Before newspapers existed, they had printed handbills featuring images so the illiterate masses could understand them. When Luther published his Thesis against Church corruption, which was only a call to clean up the excess and hypocrisy in the Church, handbills were printed showing Luther farting on the Church Doctrine in front of the Pope. Very sensational and not very accurate.

The press also helped egg on many wars from British wars in Africa to the Spanish American War (which was the result of competition between two big New York newspapers and the owner of one often bragged how HE had started the war with his paper) and even the American Civil War. Since then they have been hyping up little stories well out of proportion just to sell copy.

I just don't trust newspapermen. We are actually having something of a feud with the local paper in Alabama, which is the only paper in town. The editor seems to delight in twisting people's words in interviews and the other stories aren't very accurate either. I'm not sure what they can do though.

[Guest guest]

I think one did survive, but there is some confusion on the numbers. They said at one point that one man had been found dead and apart from the others. I'm not sure if they included that one when they were talking about the other group or not.

I'm sure they try to be accurate as far as that goes, but the newspapers have always been driven by sensationalism. There have been complaints about that at least to the early 1800's if not earlier. Before newspapers existed, they had printed handbills featuring images so the illiterate masses could understand them. When Luther published his Thesis against Church corruption, which was only a call to clean up the excess and hypocrisy in the Church, handbills were printed showing Luther farting on the Church Doctrine in front of the Pope. Very sensational and not very accurate.

The press also helped egg on many wars from British wars in Africa to the Spanish American War (which was the result of competition between two big New York newspapers and the owner of one often bragged how HE had started the war with his paper) and even the American Civil War. Since then they have been hyping up little stories well out of proportion just to sell copy.

I just don't trust newspapermen. We are actually having something of a feud with the local paper in Alabama, which is the only paper in town. The editor seems to delight in twisting people's words in interviews and the other stories aren't very accurate either. I'm not sure what they can do though.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/4/2006 6:30:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I believe that there is always a lot of misinformation when news first breaks. With the London bombs - I heard on radio in the morning that there was some sort of blockage in the tunnels - they thought it was just a technical problem and were going to fix it - I instantly thought bomb - sure enough later it was confirmed as a bomb.

You have a good point there. In one of my classes we were being told how to conduct proper research for our papers. I don't remember the complete order but it was something like this. We are referring to degree of accuracy of information.

Peer reviewed journals.

Trade or industry journals.

Quarterly journals.

Monthly journals and magazines.

Weeklies

Dailies (newspapers)

Television news and news websites.

The idea being the same as for cars: speed kills. In this case accuracy and truth are killed by the speed of preparation and presentation. You will also see the highest number of corrections in reverse order on this list.

The "London Burning" headline is typical of newspaper sensationalism. It was a tragic thing to be sure, but London was not burning like it was under the Blitz.

[Guest guest]

Last night just before I went to bed, my mom said the miners have been

found and they are all alive.

I was happy to hear that, but then I had to stop myself until I had an

answer to this question: " Was there any OFFICIAL confirmation of that? "

She said the governor made the announcement, and I thought, " Well, if

the governor says it's true... "

And so I went to bed last night and said a prayer of thanks to God for

the eleven that survived and asked that He be merciful in the

judgement of the one who died. I also thanked Him for proving people's

faith in Him. They had had their faith that God would not fail them

and He had not failed them, and now the whole world could see what the

power of faith could do.

The next morning I woke up and was angry with these people. I

reflected that they had put God in a bad position. It was like they

were trying to will Him to do something for them that may not have

been in His plan, and then foisting the outcome on Him as His fault

even though it was THEIR fault for not getting their facts straight in

the first place.

What they should have been praying for is that God's Will be done, and

then they would have gotten what they asked for, because the outcome

was God's will after all, wasn't it?

Tom

Administrator

I don't know. To have the false hope (because no-one checked the

validation of the source information - and I suppose people want to

believe the best, no fault there) maybe it is better to think loved

ones are dead then to realise they are actually alive than to believe

they have survived only to find out they are actually dead? I don't

know maybe people see this differently.

Looking for someone to Sue though? Sueing won't bring them back.

[Guest guest]

>Kajira: "-Now are they sure they are all dead?"Perhaps...... Just imagine.....They were alive when the rescuers first spotted them, but the aliens wouldn't let go, they struggled, won the bodies but not the souls......  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Mmmmmmmm that might be true, but people don't always want God's will

do they?

Also the bible does cite cases where man has been able to persuade

God and get him to change his mind on matters - so you really can't

blame them for trying can you?

>

> I don't know. To have the false hope (because no-one checked the

> validation of the source information - and I suppose people want to

> believe the best, no fault there) maybe it is better to think loved

> ones are dead then to realise they are actually alive than to

believe

> they have survived only to find out they are actually dead? I don't

> know maybe people see this differently.

>

> Looking for someone to Sue though? Sueing won't bring them back.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, but if conditions at the mine were such that it was not safe to work there, there may be cause. Yes, the men knew the risks (or should have) but the company has an obligation to keep things as safe as possible. If what I saw on the news was correct, this company had been cited for dangerous conditions before. Supposedly, one man was alive. It had to be one of the final twelve.greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote: I don't know. To have the false hope (because no-one checked the validation of the source information - and I suppose people want to believe the best, no fault there) maybe it is better to think loved ones are dead then to realise they are actually alive than to believe they have survived only to find out they are actually dead? I don't know maybe people see this

differently.Looking for someone to Sue though? Sueing won't bring them back.> >> > I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I > certainly > > do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are closest to > > this tragedy.> >

> > But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the 12 > > miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry. > > > > At who?> > > > At the relatives of the miners.> > > > Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around > > saying "They're alive! All of them!"> > > > This morning they were saying: "They lied to us! I'll sue!"> > > > Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is that > > they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue efforts, > > overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send > > ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon. > > > > That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying "Praise > > Jesus." The governor, without checking to see what was fact and > what > > was

myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked this > up > > and ran with it.> > > > And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd been > > there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up too > high > > because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I would > > have been trounced.> > > > Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited about > > something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then the > > people they ought to sue are themselves. > > > > I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I know > > that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to become fact > > in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact that > > the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided I have >

> MY facts straight- was themselves.> > > > Tom> > Administrator> > > > > > > http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A> > tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--> > > > 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead > > > > By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer > > 1 hour, 36 minutes ago> > > > TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking reversal, > > family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13 trapped coal > > miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating news > > that they were alive. > > > > The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition but > > showing no sign of brain damage or

carbon monoxide poisoning after > > being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy was the > > youngest in the group.> > > > The devastating new information about the others shocked and > angered > > family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours > earlier > > when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive. Rescue > > crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.> > > > "I can only say there was no one who did anything intentionally > > other than risk their lives to save their loved ones," Manchin told > > ABC's "Good Morning America."> > > > "No one can say anything about that would make anything any > better," > > he said. "Just a horrible situation."> > > > McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a hospital, > > the

hospital said.> > > > McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West Virginia > > University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he remained > > in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and on a > > ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate sign of > > brain damage.> > > > "He responds to stimuli and that's good," Dr. Lawrence said > > at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning, he > > said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors said > > that McCloy's age may have helped him.> > > > Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he found > > out his son-in law was the only survivor, "I was still devastated. > > My whole family's heart goes out to them other families."> > > >

Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface of the > > Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is located > about > > 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to get > to > > the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an > > emotional two-day vigil.> > > > But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the church, > > yelling "They're alive!" The church's bells began ringing and > > families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the apparent > > rescue a miracle.> > > > As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what families > > believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet knowing > > there were no others.> > > > Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors, he > later > > indicated he

was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed through > > the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going on, he > > said.> > > > "All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state, and all > > the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my > > detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because we > were > > wired in and we didn't know," Manchin said.> > > > International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield > blamed > > the wrong information on a "miscommunication." The news spread > after > > people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality, rescuers > had > > only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their vital > > signs. At least two family members in the church said they received > > cell phone calls from a mine foreman.> >

> > "That information spread like wildfire, because it had come from > the > > command center," he said.> > > > Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that "there had been > a > > lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and that > > only one survived," said Groves, whose brother Jerry Groves > was > > one of the trapped miners.> > > > "There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was immediately out > > the door," said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms. > > > > Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a dozen > > state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road near > > the church because police were concerned about violence. Witnesses > > said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged for > > mining officials.

> > > > Company officials waited to correct the information until they knew > > more about the rescue, Hatfield said. > > > > "Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to celebrate? I > > didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive)," Hatfield > > said. > > > > The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since > > November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin — died > > in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n County, > > an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain entombed in > > the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to pass > > the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969. > > > > It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions tore > > through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood, Ala., on

> > Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13. > > > > Federal Department of Labor officials promised an investigation. > > Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine Safety and > > Health Administration, said it will include "how emergency > > information was relayed about the trapped miners' conditions." > > > > The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had > > constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found near > where > > the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an attempt to > > contact the men. > > > > The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area about 20 > > feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is > > designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had carried a > > breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

> mining > > officials. > > > > The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine, which > > revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The odorless, > > colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels, it can > > cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue and > > brain damage. > > > > Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in miracles, > > tried to focus on the news that one had survived. > > > > "We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13," he > said. > > > > ___ > > > > Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark > > in Tallmansville contributed to this report.> >>If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I am not disputing sueing over the fact of negligence - which is very

good reason - particularly if things could have been prevented.

I believe it wrong to sue if no-one is at fault - or sueing because

of misinformation (if that misinformation has not caused loss of life

or injury).

Also I still stand on the fact that sueing does not bring people

back - if anything happened to a loved one of mine because of another

then I would of course want to see justice done - see them answer to

someone - apologise - admit they were at fault (if they were) - but

no amount of money would bring them back or ease the sense of the

loss of a loved one.

> > >

> > > I run a risk by commenting about what happened here, and I

> > certainly

> > > do not want to seem disrespectful to the people who are closest

> to

> > > this tragedy.

> > >

> > > But when I turned on the TV this morning and heard that the 12

> > > miners thought to be alive were actually dead, I was angry.

> > >

> > > At who?

> > >

> > > At the relatives of the miners.

> > >

> > > Last night before I went to bed they were skipping around

> > > saying " They're alive! All of them! "

> > >

> > > This morning they were saying: " They lied to us! I'll sue! "

> > >

> > > Now maybe I don't have the whole story, but what I heard is

that

> > > they were using a multi-channel receiver to monitor rescue

> efforts,

> > > overheard it stated that the miners were found and to send

> > > ambulances, and that they'd get the first one up soon.

> > >

> > > That was IT. So people raced out of the church saying " Praise

> > > Jesus. " The governor, without checking to see what was fact and

> > what

> > > was myth, said the miners were found alive. The media picked

this

> > up

> > > and ran with it.

> > >

> > > And again I think to myself what would have happened if I'd

been

> > > there. I would have told everyone not to get their hopes up too

> > high

> > > because there has been no OFFICIAL word yet. And I'm sure I

would

> > > have been trounced.

> > >

> > > Now I think that if these people did in fact get overexcited

> about

> > > something they didn't hegar but only WISHED they heard, then

the

> > > people they ought to sue are themselves.

> > >

> > > I am sorry for their losses, and it's a tragic situation. I

know

> > > that sometimes people want hopes, wishes, and dreams to become

> fact

> > > in a blink of an eye, but that still doesn't change the fact

that

> > > the only people who deceived anyone in this matter -provided I

> have

> > > MY facts straight- was themselves.

> > >

> > > Tom

> > > Administrator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://news./s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion;_ylt=A

> > > tIyLE5diVo8lWzUrKRXGoys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

> > >

> > > 12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead

> > >

> > > By JENNIFER C. YATES, Associated Press Writer

> > > 1 hour, 36 minutes ago

> > >

> > > TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. - In a stunning and heartbreaking

reversal,

> > > family members were told early Wednesday that 12 of 13 trapped

> coal

> > > miners were dead — three hours after they began celebrating

news

> > > that they were alive.

> > >

> > > The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, was in critical condition but

> > > showing no sign of brain damage or carbon monoxide poisoning

> after

> > > being trapped for 1 1/2 days, a doctor said. At 27, McCloy was

> the

> > > youngest in the group.

> > >

> > > The devastating new information about the others shocked and

> > angered

> > > family members, who had rejoiced with Gov. Joe Manchin hours

> > earlier

> > > when a report began to spread that 12 miners were alive. Rescue

> > > crews found the first victim earlier Tuesday evening.

> > >

> > > " I can only say there was no one who did anything intentionally

> > > other than risk their lives to save their loved ones, " Manchin

> told

> > > ABC's " Good Morning America. "

> > >

> > > " No one can say anything about that would make anything any

> > better, "

> > > he said. " Just a horrible situation. "

> > >

> > > McCloy was unconscious but moaning when he arrived at a

hospital,

> > > the hospital said.

> > >

> > > McCloy was transferred to the intensive care unit of West

> Virginia

> > > University's Ruby Memory Hospital at town, where he

> remained

> > > in critical condition. Doctors said he was under sedation and

on

> a

> > > ventilator to aid his breathing and there was no immediate sign

> of

> > > brain damage.

> > >

> > > " He responds to stimuli and that's good, " Dr. Lawrence

> said

> > > at a briefing. There was no sign of carbon monoxide poisoning,

he

> > > said. Most of the other miners were in their 50s, and doctors

> said

> > > that McCloy's age may have helped him.

> > >

> > > Green, McCloy's father-in-law, told ABC that when he

> found

> > > out his son-in law was the only survivor, " I was still

> devastated.

> > > My whole family's heart goes out to them other families. "

> > >

> > > Thirteen miners had been trapped 260 feet below the surface of

> the

> > > Sago Mine since an explosion early Monday. The mine is located

> > about

> > > 100 miles northeast of ton. As rescue workers tried to

get

> > to

> > > the men, families waited at the Sago Baptist Church during an

> > > emotional two-day vigil.

> > >

> > > But late Tuesday night, families began streaming out of the

> church,

> > > yelling " They're alive! " The church's bells began ringing and

> > > families embraced, as politicians proclaimed word of the

apparent

> > > rescue a miracle.

> > >

> > > As an ambulance drove away from the mine carrying what families

> > > believed was the first survivor, they applauded, not yet

knowing

> > > there were no others.

> > >

> > > Though the governor announced that there were 12 survivors, he

> > later

> > > indicated he was uncertain about the news. As word buzzed

through

> > > the church of survivors, he tried to find out what was going

on,

> he

> > > said.

> > >

> > > " All of a sudden we heard the families in a euphoric state, and

> all

> > > the shouting and screaming and joyfulness, and I asked my

> > > detachments, I said, 'Do you know what's happening?' Because we

> > were

> > > wired in and we didn't know, " Manchin said.

> > >

> > > International Coal Group Chief Executive Officer Ben Hatfield

> > blamed

> > > the wrong information on a " miscommunication. " The news spread

> > after

> > > people overheard cell phone calls, he said. In reality,

rescuers

> > had

> > > only confirmed finding 12 miners and were checking their vital

> > > signs. At least two family members in the church said they

> received

> > > cell phone calls from a mine foreman.

> > >

> > > " That information spread like wildfire, because it had come

from

> > the

> > > command center, " he said.

> > >

> > > Three hours later, Hatfield told the families that " there had

> been

> > a

> > > lack of communication, that what we were told was wrong and

that

> > > only one survived, " said Groves, whose brother Jerry

Groves

> > was

> > > one of the trapped miners.

> > >

> > > " There was no apology. There was no nothing. It was immediately

> out

> > > the door, " said Nick Helms, son of miner Terry Helms.

> > >

> > > Chaos broke out in the church and a fight started. About a

dozen

> > > state troopers and a SWAT team were positioned along the road

> near

> > > the church because police were concerned about violence.

> Witnesses

> > > said one man had to be wrestled to the ground when he lunged

for

> > > mining officials.

> > >

> > > Company officials waited to correct the information until they

> knew

> > > more about the rescue, Hatfield said.

> > >

> > > " Let's put this in perspective. Who do I tell not to celebrate?

I

> > > didn't know if there were 12 or one (who were alive), " Hatfield

> > > said.

> > >

> > > The explosion was the state's deadliest mining accident since

> > > November 1968, when 78 men — including the uncle of Manchin —

> died

> > > in an explosion at Consol's Farmington No. 9 mine in n

> County,

> > > an hour's drive north of here. Nineteen bodies remain entombed

in

> > > the mountain. It was that disaster that prompted Congress to

pass

> > > the Mine Health and Safety Act of 1969.

> > >

> > > It was also the worst nationwide since a pair of explosions

tore

> > > through the Jim Walter Resources No. 5 mine in Brookwood, Ala.,

> on

> > > Sept. 23, 2001, killing 13.

> > >

> > > Federal Department of Labor officials promised an

investigation.

> > > Acting Assistant Secretary Dye, who heads the Mine Safety

> and

> > > Health Administration, said it will include " how emergency

> > > information was relayed about the trapped miners' conditions. "

> > >

> > > The 12 miners were found together behind a barrier they had

> > > constructed to block carbon monoxide gas. They were found near

> > where

> > > the company had drilled an air hole early Tuesday in an attempt

> to

> > > contact the men.

> > >

> > > The miners had stretched a piece of fabric across an area about

> 20

> > > feet wide to block out the gas, Hatfield said. The fabric is

> > > designed for miners to use as a barrier. Each miner had carried

a

> > > breathing apparatus and had been able to use it, according to

> > mining

> > > officials.

> > >

> > > The hole also was used to check air quality in the mine, which

> > > revealed high concentrations of carbon monoxide. The odorless,

> > > colorless gas can be lethal at high doses. At lower levels, it

> can

> > > cause headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea, fatigue and

> > > brain damage.

> > >

> > > Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in

> miracles,

> > > tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

> > >

> > > " We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13, " he

> > said.

> > >

> > > ___

> > >

> > > Associated Press writers Vicki , G. Breed and Mark

> > > in Tallmansville contributed to this report.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Tom: "What they should have been praying for is that God's Will be done"HEAR !  HEAR !  Rainbow

[Guest guest]

Whoa! I thought one survived. Turned off tv last night with "they're all alive" in my head. Woke up to a tornado siren. No "freight train" sound, but turned on news to be sure one not on way. (not likely here, but just in case..) Nope. Stayed with it to see more miner deaths than originally reported. I have a feeling: Tom said they had found remaining twelve and the first was being brought up, so the woman from governor's office who ran to the church and said "Praise God! Hallelujah! They're alive!" should have known better. Btw, Willliam, most news bureaus are extra careful to report what's going on, but also mention that when news first breaks, info sketchy. But they try and find out truth. More than likely, newspersons who were at mine had the families saying how they were going to sue, fueled by anger. That was probaly uppermost in their minds when they talked to governor.VISIGOTH@... wrote: There is another point here to all of this. Mine accidents happen all around the world every year. Here we had one where 13 people died. Last year there was a story out of China where some 600 miners died in a single accident and several such accidents happen every year there. Now and then you hear of a few hundred dying in a Russian or Ukrainian mine. More of those accidents are sure so be happening, but word just doesn't get out because over there the state owns both the mines and the media. We got off pretty lucky with just 13 dead. It could have been worse had it not been the safety standards we have, even if a few were violated here. If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

[Guest guest]

Whoa! I thought one survived. Turned off tv last night with "they're all alive" in my head. Woke up to a tornado siren. No "freight train" sound, but turned on news to be sure one not on way. (not likely here, but just in case..) Nope. Stayed with it to see more miner deaths than originally reported. I have a feeling: Tom said they had found remaining twelve and the first was being brought up, so the woman from governor's office who ran to the church and said "Praise God! Hallelujah! They're alive!" should have known better. Btw, Willliam, most news bureaus are extra careful to report what's going on, but also mention that when news first breaks, info sketchy. But they try and find out truth. More than likely, newspersons who were at mine had the families saying how they were going to sue, fueled by anger. That was probaly uppermost in their minds when they talked to governor.VISIGOTH@... wrote: There is another point here to all of this. Mine accidents happen all around the world every year. Here we had one where 13 people died. Last year there was a story out of China where some 600 miners died in a single accident and several such accidents happen every year there. Now and then you hear of a few hundred dying in a Russian or Ukrainian mine. More of those accidents are sure so be happening, but word just doesn't get out because over there the state owns both the mines and the media. We got off pretty lucky with just 13 dead. It could have been worse had it not been the safety standards we have, even if a few were violated here. If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

[Guest guest]

" Btw, Willliam, most news bureaus are extra careful to report what's

going on, but also mention that when news first breaks, info sketchy. "

I believe that there is always a lot of misinformation when news

first breaks. With the London bombs - I heard on radio in the morning

that there was some sort of blockage in the tunnels - they thought it

was just a technical problem and were going to fix it - I instantly

thought bomb - sure enough later it was confirmed as a bomb.

Also I saw some of the web reports on a fire down south - some of the

headlines were saying 'Britain on fire' etc - hardly.

>

> Whoa! I thought one survived. Turned off tv last night

with " they're all alive " in my head. Woke up to a tornado siren.

No " freight train " sound, but turned on news to be sure one not on

way. (not likely here, but just in case..) Nope. Stayed with it to

see more miner deaths than originally reported. I have a feeling: Tom

said they had found remaining twelve and the first was being brought

up, so the woman from governor's office who ran to the church and

said " Praise God! Hallelujah! They're alive! " should have known

better.

> Btw, Willliam, most news bureaus are extra careful to report

what's going on, but also mention that when news first breaks, info

sketchy. But they try and find out truth. More than likely,

newspersons who were at mine had the families saying how they were

going to sue, fueled by anger. That was probaly uppermost in their

minds when they talked to governor.

>

[Guest guest]

I know a Croatian guy who knows 4 languages and he gets international

cable. He says each country tells a different story on a news piece.

He also says we in U.S. don't have the correct & complete info on the

Croatian war.

>

>

> From: mikecarrie01

>

>

>

> I totally, agree, . The press whips everyone into a

frenzy.

> But shame on people for allowing themselves to be.

>

> I agree with this, totally. Media literacy and a healthy

skepticism are ever more important. What information I had about this

incident I got from this list -- " watching the news " sickens me (my

undergrad degree is in journalism and I used to be a reporter for a

daily in the '80s). My husband is more so a news watcher and when the

aftermath of this incident went on and on, I asked him to change the

channel.

>

> The presentation and disproportionate intake of these sad fiascos

(or exploitations) as spectator " entertainment " is even more

unhealthy, I think. However, these things are more market-driven than

not, I believe.

>

> So many people are still in the " trusting " mode. Dress someone in

a suit or nice attire, give them a microphone, and they will come ...

>

> I think it's time for me to watch " Network " again. Or maybe " A

Face in the Crowd. "

>

>

> Amy

>