Re: ugh.. I am so sorry.. I feel sooo BAD... ugh...

[Guest guest]

kajira,

Welcome to the forum. Inger and I both responded to your e-mail, so

check your e-mail box.

We look forward to your posts.

Tom

Administrator

-i happen to admire Temple Grandin.Her new book, " Animals in

Translation " ,is wonderful.i think she means she is " cured " of the

unpleasant aspects,the fears etc.i know i do not have the same fears

and issues i had as a child,either.i actually enjoy some of the

things that scared the crap out of me as a child lol(like horror

films.i started to LOVE them at about age 11,Before then,i could not

be on the same FLOOR of the house if someone was watching even a

mildly scary show.The music freaked me out).i think the brain changes

as we age. Kajira

[Guest guest]

My dog has certain music she liked and didn't like. She mainly liked

country music (so funny coz I'm not a fan though I like some),

lullibies and music with a sweet melody (she liked Little Lies, by

Fleetwood Mac, in particular).

> >

> > Kajira:

> > -i happen to admire Temple Grandin. Her new book, " Animals in

> Translation " ,

> > is wonderful.

> >

> > Cool! I just bought that book yesterday! (With a gift certificate

I

> got for

> > Christmas.) :-) Haven't started reading it yet.

> >

> > > i think she means she is " cured " of the unpleasant aspects, the

> fears etc.

> >

> > I HOPE that's what she means.

> >

> > > i know i do not have the same fears and issues i had as a

child,

> either. i

> > > actually enjoy some of the

> > things that scared the crap out of me as a child lol (like horror

> films. i

> > started to LOVE them at about age 11, Before then, i could not be

> on the

> > same FLOOR of the house if someone was watching even a mildly

scary

> show.The

> > music freaked me out). i think the brain changes as we age.

> >

> > Absolutely! I was terrified of horror films too when I was a kid.

I

> so wish

> > I hadn't seen them! And I too started loving them when I was a

> teen, but now

> > I've turned more sensitive again and can't stand watching any. At

> least not

> > modern ones. Harmless old Dracula and enstein movies are

only

> cute.

> >

> > Inger

> >

>

[Guest guest]

there's a cd for dogs

http://www.animalsentience.com/news/2005-06-16.htm

Songs to make dogs happy

And while we're talking about laughing animals, there's a new CD out

that aims to please your best friend.

Los Angeles singer-songwriter, Skip Haynes, has published " Songs to

Make Dogs Happy " , a CD which features tunes such as " You're a Good

Dog, " I Love Food, " and " Scratch My Back. "

Owners say their dogs like the CD because of the barks and squeaky

toy noises it contains.

Haynes says the dogs like the CD for deeper reasons, ones he

carefully researched with animal communicator Kim Ogden-Avrutik.

" We spent seven months doing research with more than 200 dogs to find

songs that they would like, " Haynes said.

For that he turned to Ogden-Avrutik, or " Dr. Kim " as she's known, a

Chicago animal communicator with a Ph.D in public health, who also

happens to be a musician. The two decided to collaborate on an album

with one purpose: to make dogs happy.

Ogden-Avrutik came up with a list of things dogs like, based on notes

from more than a decade as a " translator " between dogs and their

owners. She took it to a dog show and ran the topics by 125 dogs to

see what ranked among their favourites.

" One hundred percent of the dogs wanted to hear that they were happy.

Ninety-three percent wanted to hear that their human loved them " and

92 percent wanted their human to know the feeling was mutual.

Once the topics were established, Haynes sent Dr. Kim a sampling of

musical styles, ranging from big band and Celtic music to the Rolling

Stones and ny Cash.

Haynes and Ogden-Avrutik wrote lyrics to 12 songs. For the actual

music, Haynes said, he used a 30-year-old omnichord, which sounds

like a cross between a synthesizer and an autoharp played

underwater. " It's the sonic equivalent of blowing bubbles, " he joked.

Source: Star Tribune

>

> My dog has certain music she liked and didn't like. She mainly

liked

> country music (so funny coz I'm not a fan though I like some),

> lullibies and music with a sweet melody (she liked Little Lies, by

> Fleetwood Mac, in particular).

[Guest guest]

there's a cd for dogs

http://www.animalsentience.com/news/2005-06-16.htm

Songs to make dogs happy

And while we're talking about laughing animals, there's a new CD out

that aims to please your best friend.

Los Angeles singer-songwriter, Skip Haynes, has published " Songs to

Make Dogs Happy " , a CD which features tunes such as " You're a Good

Dog, " I Love Food, " and " Scratch My Back. "

Owners say their dogs like the CD because of the barks and squeaky

toy noises it contains.

Haynes says the dogs like the CD for deeper reasons, ones he

carefully researched with animal communicator Kim Ogden-Avrutik.

" We spent seven months doing research with more than 200 dogs to find

songs that they would like, " Haynes said.

For that he turned to Ogden-Avrutik, or " Dr. Kim " as she's known, a

Chicago animal communicator with a Ph.D in public health, who also

happens to be a musician. The two decided to collaborate on an album

with one purpose: to make dogs happy.

Ogden-Avrutik came up with a list of things dogs like, based on notes

from more than a decade as a " translator " between dogs and their

owners. She took it to a dog show and ran the topics by 125 dogs to

see what ranked among their favourites.

" One hundred percent of the dogs wanted to hear that they were happy.

Ninety-three percent wanted to hear that their human loved them " and

92 percent wanted their human to know the feeling was mutual.

Once the topics were established, Haynes sent Dr. Kim a sampling of

musical styles, ranging from big band and Celtic music to the Rolling

Stones and ny Cash.

Haynes and Ogden-Avrutik wrote lyrics to 12 songs. For the actual

music, Haynes said, he used a 30-year-old omnichord, which sounds

like a cross between a synthesizer and an autoharp played

underwater. " It's the sonic equivalent of blowing bubbles, " he joked.

Source: Star Tribune

>

> My dog has certain music she liked and didn't like. She mainly

liked

> country music (so funny coz I'm not a fan though I like some),

> lullibies and music with a sweet melody (she liked Little Lies, by

> Fleetwood Mac, in particular).

[Guest guest]

> >

> > My dog has certain music she liked and didn't like. She mainly

> liked

> > country music (so funny coz I'm not a fan though I like some),

> > lullibies and music with a sweet melody (she liked Little Lies,

by

> > Fleetwood Mac, in particular).

>

[Guest guest]

>

> -i happen to admire Temple Grandin.Her new book, " Animals in

> Translation " ,is wonderful.i think she means she is " cured " of the

> unpleasant aspects,the fears etc.i know i do not have the same fears

> and issues i had as a child,either.i actually enjoy some of the

> things that scared the crap out of me as a child lol(like horror

> films.i started to LOVE them at about age 11,Before then,i could not

> be on the same FLOOR of the house if someone was watching even a

> mildly scary show.The music freaked me out).i think the brain

changes

> as we age. Kajira

>

>

Hey there

didn't know if I should reply or how to reply... I didn't read the

book, but it had caught my attention before, and I wanted to read it,

but then I read she develops slaughter equipment for companies like

Mcs!!!! *shock*

I have the same 'ability'/'gift'(??) as Temple does (eg I always

understood and identified with animals and in many ways felt closer to

them than to people and I still do) and I would never, it would just

never come up in my mind, ever, to develop slaughter equipment!! It's

gruesome! I could never kill an animal or help anyone kill an animal!!

(since I'm like them! how can I kill someone like me?? it feels

barbaric!) it's just too horrible for my mind to comprehend something

like that! ok, " " normal " people " do that... because they think they

stand above animals, because they are insensitive and they don't

understand animals and they don't feel things as I do.. but someone

like me (someone who understands)... would do something like that?!?!?

that is just shocking. I am still in shock!!

:x

and then there's something else I have read, that she considers

autistic people and animals both inferior to homo sapiens. e.g. she

claims our neural system is similarly 'less advanced' as that of

animals. Whereas I do not see why the neural system of homo sapiens as

in opposition to ours or that of the animals is more advanced at all!!

it's different. not less, not more.

for me defending animals is in one and the same line as self-defense.

So -I think- her entire behaviour towards animals, is similar to how

she feels she should treat her autistic self (the part of her she now

denies or considers 'inferior'). I assume, she was never learned how

to LOVE herself (the autistic parts of herself), so she also doesn't

LOVE animals. It's like understanding without love.

That's the only way I can somehow explain someone doing something so

contrary to what feels right for me...

I am still shocked though. It hurts me... :| it's like someone trying

to improve the way I will be slaughtered when people think it's my

time to be slaughtered and then to serve as food for them.. HORRIBLE!!

in me, every particle of my body, mind, heart opposes to be

slaughtered by homo sapiens to serve as food for 'it' and I assume

every single animal on planet earth feels exactly the same " I do not

want to serve as food!! Please, let me live!!!! "

now, at least, I hope I will not be blamed for being oversensitive in

here :x cause I can honestly freak out when I see animals getting

slaughtered on tv.. absolutely can't deal with it!!

But on a completely different note, if you like discussion and news on

animal behaviour/feeling/awareness stuff, there's also a website with

info and there's a dvd with a conference on the issue and there's also

an email newsletter on the latest topics (which I'm also subscribed

to):

http://www.animalsentience.com

and a very warm welcome btw!! many blessings for the new year! )

maYa

[Guest guest]

> >

> >

> > there's a cd for dogs

>

> Funny! I wonder if they really do like it?

> >

> " One hundred percent of the dogs wanted to hear that they were

happy.

> > Ninety-three percent wanted to hear that their human loved them "

> and

> > 92 percent wanted their human to know the feeling was mutual. "

>

> Huh? Is this a joke?

> >

my dog indeed becomes happy with certain sounds and words, so I

assume the meaning those words/sounds have for him define if it makes

him happy or not. eg 'good dog' means maybe 'you're loved' to a dog??

I try using different words for unconditional love and

achievement. 'good dog' or 'bravo' is for achievement stuff (like

jumping on command) and 'sweet dog' is unconditional love, when I

just like cuddling him. I don't know if my dog gets it. He's very

very hooked on the 'good dog' or on doing something good. I think he

has like the lowest self esteem I've ever seen in a dog!! Presumably

because the person he was with loved him only second-place and he was

always pushed down by the other dog (his mother) at that. So he's

flourishing here in our home, being the centre of attention and

always a 'sweet dog' =))

[Guest guest]

--- In , " maYa " <crna_kuna@y...> >

> my dog indeed becomes happy with certain sounds and words, so I

> assume the meaning those words/sounds have for him define if it

makes

> him happy or not. eg 'good dog' means maybe 'you're loved' to a

dog??

> I try using different words for unconditional love and

> achievement. 'good dog' or 'bravo' is for achievement stuff (like

> jumping on command) and 'sweet dog' is unconditional love, when I

> just like cuddling him. I don't know if my dog gets it. He's very

> very hooked on the 'good dog' or on doing something good. I think

he

> has like the lowest self esteem I've ever seen in a dog!!

Presumably

> because the person he was with loved him only second-place and he

was

> always pushed down by the other dog (his mother) at that. So he's

> flourishing here in our home, being the centre of attention and

> always a 'sweet dog' =))

>

Okay, when they said '100% of dogs want to know they're happy' I

didn't get it. What words would convey that? Know they're loved,

okay, sure.

My dog knew a lot of words. It's not true that they just respond to

tone, though that's certainly true. I counted and wrote them all down

somewhere, but I don't remember how many. Based on what I read, I

think she was a very smart dog, but not the smartest (like some of

the herding breeds, especially the Australian one, I think). I also

used the same word to describe different things, like I used 'water'

for rain, so if I said 'It's water outside' she knew what I meant and

turned away from the door and lay back down 'coz she didn't like

rain! One time I had to have her go live with a friend (horrible,

horrible, more so for her!)and could only visit her. When I got her

back she was insecure that I would do that again, I could tell--she

just couldn't relax so I told her ' won't let them take you,

you stay here with ' and she knew what I meant and immediately

relaxed and acted happy, kissed me profusely, gave a big sigh, lay

down and was fine after that. For about a week after that she would

run and jump on the bed, it was so funny! Talk about trust! What a

responsibility to not break their trust (though they would forgive

easily!).

[Guest guest]

--Mac would LOVE those records! He likes it when i take popular songs

and change the lyrics to be about him.He also recognizes many words

and phrases and loves to hear he is a good puppy.Kajira

- In , " maYa " <crna_kuna@y...> wrote:

>

>

> there's a cd for dogs

>

> http://www.animalsentience.com/news/2005-06-16.htm

>

>

> Songs to make dogs happy

>

>

> And while we're talking about laughing animals, there's a new CD

out

> that aims to please your best friend.

>

> Los Angeles singer-songwriter, Skip Haynes, has published " Songs

to

> Make Dogs Happy " , a CD which features tunes such as " You're a Good

> Dog, " I Love Food, " and " Scratch My Back. "

>

> Owners say their dogs like the CD because of the barks and squeaky

> toy noises it contains.

>

> Haynes says the dogs like the CD for deeper reasons, ones he

> carefully researched with animal communicator Kim Ogden-Avrutik.

>

> " We spent seven months doing research with more than 200 dogs to

find

> songs that they would like, " Haynes said.

>

>

> For that he turned to Ogden-Avrutik, or " Dr. Kim " as she's known, a

> Chicago animal communicator with a Ph.D in public health, who also

> happens to be a musician. The two decided to collaborate on an

album

> with one purpose: to make dogs happy.

>

> Ogden-Avrutik came up with a list of things dogs like, based on

notes

> from more than a decade as a " translator " between dogs and their

> owners. She took it to a dog show and ran the topics by 125 dogs to

> see what ranked among their favourites.

>

> " One hundred percent of the dogs wanted to hear that they were

happy.

> Ninety-three percent wanted to hear that their human loved them "

and

> 92 percent wanted their human to know the feeling was mutual.

>

> Once the topics were established, Haynes sent Dr. Kim a sampling of

> musical styles, ranging from big band and Celtic music to the

Rolling

> Stones and ny Cash.

>

> Haynes and Ogden-Avrutik wrote lyrics to 12 songs. For the actual

> music, Haynes said, he used a 30-year-old omnichord, which sounds

> like a cross between a synthesizer and an autoharp played

> underwater. " It's the sonic equivalent of blowing bubbles, " he

joked.

>

>

> Source: Star Tribune

>

>

>

>

> >

> > My dog has certain music she liked and didn't like. She mainly

> liked

> > country music (so funny coz I'm not a fan though I like some),

> > lullibies and music with a sweet melody (she liked Little Lies,

by

> > Fleetwood Mac, in particular).

>

[Guest guest]

-Thanks for the link.Please read Miss Grandin's book " Animals in

Translation " ,it will help with your misconceptions about her.As for

eating meat/killing animals,she believes as i do,that humans are

omnivores by nature.So the question is not,IMHO, whether eating

meat/killing animals for food is bad,it's how to do so in a manner

which does not traumatize the animals.Personally i think Americans

eat way too much meat but that is another issue.i also think there

are degrees of sentience in animals.This is why i quit PETA,because

they make no distinction between a lobster and a dog.But i am still

in the ASPCA and many other such groups. Kajira

-- In , " maYa " <crna_kuna@y...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> > -i happen to admire Temple Grandin.Her new book, " Animals in

> > Translation " ,is wonderful.i think she means she is " cured " of the

> > unpleasant aspects,the fears etc.i know i do not have the same

fears

> > and issues i had as a child,either.i actually enjoy some of the

> > things that scared the crap out of me as a child lol(like horror

> > films.i started to LOVE them at about age 11,Before then,i could

not

> > be on the same FLOOR of the house if someone was watching even a

> > mildly scary show.The music freaked me out).i think the brain

> changes

> > as we age. Kajira

> >

> >

> Hey there

>

> didn't know if I should reply or how to reply... I didn't read the

> book, but it had caught my attention before, and I wanted to read

it,

> but then I read she develops slaughter equipment for companies like

> Mcs!!!! *shock*

>

> I have the same 'ability'/'gift'(??) as Temple does (eg I always

> understood and identified with animals and in many ways felt closer

to

> them than to people and I still do) and I would never, it would

just

> never come up in my mind, ever, to develop slaughter equipment!!

It's

> gruesome! I could never kill an animal or help anyone kill an

animal!!

> (since I'm like them! how can I kill someone like me?? it feels

> barbaric!) it's just too horrible for my mind to comprehend

something

> like that! ok, " " normal " people " do that... because they think they

> stand above animals, because they are insensitive and they don't

> understand animals and they don't feel things as I do.. but someone

> like me (someone who understands)... would do something like

that?!?!?

> that is just shocking. I am still in shock!!

>

> :x

>

> and then there's something else I have read, that she considers

> autistic people and animals both inferior to homo sapiens. e.g. she

> claims our neural system is similarly 'less advanced' as that of

> animals. Whereas I do not see why the neural system of homo sapiens

as

> in opposition to ours or that of the animals is more advanced at

all!!

>

> it's different. not less, not more.

>

> for me defending animals is in one and the same line as self-

defense.

>

> So -I think- her entire behaviour towards animals, is similar to

how

> she feels she should treat her autistic self (the part of her she

now

> denies or considers 'inferior'). I assume, she was never learned

how

> to LOVE herself (the autistic parts of herself), so she also

doesn't

> LOVE animals. It's like understanding without love.

>

> That's the only way I can somehow explain someone doing something

so

> contrary to what feels right for me...

>

> I am still shocked though. It hurts me... :| it's like someone

trying

> to improve the way I will be slaughtered when people think it's my

> time to be slaughtered and then to serve as food for them..

HORRIBLE!!

> in me, every particle of my body, mind, heart opposes to be

> slaughtered by homo sapiens to serve as food for 'it' and I assume

> every single animal on planet earth feels exactly the same " I do

not

> want to serve as food!! Please, let me live!!!! "

>

> now, at least, I hope I will not be blamed for being oversensitive

in

> here :x cause I can honestly freak out when I see animals getting

> slaughtered on tv.. absolutely can't deal with it!!

>

> But on a completely different note, if you like discussion and news

on

> animal behaviour/feeling/awareness stuff, there's also a website

with

> info and there's a dvd with a conference on the issue and there's

also

> an email newsletter on the latest topics (which I'm also subscribed

> to):

>

> http://www.animalsentience.com

>

>

> and a very warm welcome btw!! many blessings for the new year! )

> maYa

>

[Guest guest]

> Okay, when they said '100% of dogs want to know they're happy' I

> didn't get it. What words would convey that? Know they're loved,

> okay, sure.

I understood 'when other dogs makes the sound indicating they are

happy' but indeed, rereading this, it's a very very odd sentence...

hmmmm??

> My dog knew a lot of words.

the word 'ball' (in whatever sentence, also not directed to him)

immediately puts my dog in high alert phase ) so I now refer to it

as 'that thing' when I don't want my dog to get excited over

nothing...

His name is btw, don't know if I mentioned that anywhere

before

> Based on what I read, I

> think she was a very smart dog, but not the smartest (like some of

> the herding breeds, especially the Australian one, I think).

according to people I have an Einstein dog (bordercollie) he's very

intelligent. He once 'saved' his gf dog Lady by digging a hole,

because she couldn't get back from one side of the fence to the other

side where my parents and Lady's owner were standing. He has

incredibly problem-solving skills and he understands complex

commands. I tried training him with sheep, but I have lack of time

and he has currently a lack of interest. But he does have the

ability, he wasn't at all bad at it (when he listens and doesn't act

as if sniffing around is more interesting). Still need to figure out

how to make sheep interesting to him again. He's very nervous too,

and scared from things he sees which are odd (like plastic bags or

other objects previously not there etc) especially in teh dark. I

think he has fantasy The fireworks yesterday were not all too best

for him ugh, but then again, which dog likes fireworks? My cat

started screaming for my help too!! Ayayay.. as if I am the stable

rock of innerpeace in da house =P

I also

> used the same word to describe different things, like I

used 'water'

> for rain,

funny!! also doesn't like rain very much. Only he loves

swimming, and he also understands 'water' means 'you're allowed to

drink now/here' (cause not all the water is clean enough for drinking)

> gave a big sigh, lay

> down and was fine after that.

hehe, do all dogs sigh like that?? is one big sigh dog ))

::light::

maYa

[Guest guest]

> Okay, when they said '100% of dogs want to know they're happy' I

> didn't get it. What words would convey that? Know they're loved,

> okay, sure.

I understood 'when other dogs makes the sound indicating they are

happy' but indeed, rereading this, it's a very very odd sentence...

hmmmm??

> My dog knew a lot of words.

the word 'ball' (in whatever sentence, also not directed to him)

immediately puts my dog in high alert phase ) so I now refer to it

as 'that thing' when I don't want my dog to get excited over

nothing...

His name is btw, don't know if I mentioned that anywhere

before

> Based on what I read, I

> think she was a very smart dog, but not the smartest (like some of

> the herding breeds, especially the Australian one, I think).

according to people I have an Einstein dog (bordercollie) he's very

intelligent. He once 'saved' his gf dog Lady by digging a hole,

because she couldn't get back from one side of the fence to the other

side where my parents and Lady's owner were standing. He has

incredibly problem-solving skills and he understands complex

commands. I tried training him with sheep, but I have lack of time

and he has currently a lack of interest. But he does have the

ability, he wasn't at all bad at it (when he listens and doesn't act

as if sniffing around is more interesting). Still need to figure out

how to make sheep interesting to him again. He's very nervous too,

and scared from things he sees which are odd (like plastic bags or

other objects previously not there etc) especially in teh dark. I

think he has fantasy The fireworks yesterday were not all too best

for him ugh, but then again, which dog likes fireworks? My cat

started screaming for my help too!! Ayayay.. as if I am the stable

rock of innerpeace in da house =P

I also

> used the same word to describe different things, like I

used 'water'

> for rain,

funny!! also doesn't like rain very much. Only he loves

swimming, and he also understands 'water' means 'you're allowed to

drink now/here' (cause not all the water is clean enough for drinking)

> gave a big sigh, lay

> down and was fine after that.

hehe, do all dogs sigh like that?? is one big sigh dog ))

::light::

maYa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/2006 12:29:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kajira_2001@... writes:

-i am always leary of published interviews,ever since i read an interview which i wrote,and the editor messed it up and changed the whole damn thing.The celebrity(local person,not a big star)came out looking like a snob which she was NOT.Also,Miss Grandin does not seem to enjoy watching the animals die at all.She was concerned because the way they were being slaughtered was not only painful when it happened,the way they were brought in had all kinds of peripheral distractions which freak out animals(and some autistic and aspies).Kajira

Newspaper editors especially are famous for this. Many of them seem to think it is their right to twist people's words to suit either their point of view or for sake of sensationalism. Several of the "flagship" newspapers in the US have been sued this past year for that and many have seen their readership and/or stock values drop by 30% or more. I see that as a good thing though since it will force them to clean up their act or go out of business.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/2006 2:40:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, VISIGOTH@... writes:

Newspaper editors especially are famous for this. Many of them seem to think it is their right to twist people's words to suit either their point of view or for sake of sensationalism. Several of the "flagship" newspapers in the US have been sued this past year for that and many have seen their readership and/or stock values drop by 30% or more. I see that as a good thing though since it will force them to clean up their act or go out of business.

I forgot to mention: I was interviewed once by the local newspaper. It was 1991 or 1992 and one of the journalists was going around town asking people what they thought about nuclear weapons, primarily meaning the ones in the US and Russia. I told her that they were dreadful things but they were also all the kept the peace in Europe, because the Russians knew if they attacked Europe they would likely trigger a nuclear war. Also it was fortunate that both sides knew that nuclear war wasn't really winnable, so both sides held back from strong confrontation.

5 or 6 quotes made it into the paper. There was a picture of the person with a sentence for a quote under it. They actually had a good and concise version of what I said under mine, though the picture wasn't very good. All the others were against nukes to one degree or another. It is interesting that my quote was the one that generated letters to the editor and all but one was in support of my point of view and provided information to back it up.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/2006 7:13:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, crna_kuna@... writes:

> My dog knew a lot of words. the word 'ball' (in whatever sentence, also not directed to him) immediately puts my dog in high alert phase ) so I now refer to it as 'that thing' when I don't want my dog to get excited over nothing...

My dog also knew a lot of words. Saying "walk" in earshot always get her attention as did saying outside. She was smart enough to know that "walk" meant going out the front door and "outside" meant the dog door to the fenced part of the yard.

"What's that?" would get her listening for sounds and "where's mom" would often get her to look for her. Interesting thing is, she usually knew. If she was upstairs and my dog were on the sofa, she would often look up toward the other side of the house where my mother's room is as good as to say, "over there". If she wasn't home, my dog (her name was Neesa) would usually either not respond, sniff around a little or actually walk around the house a little looking for her.

[Guest guest]

>

> -Thanks for the link.Please read Miss Grandin's book " Animals in

> Translation " ,it will help with your misconceptions about her.

I wish I had kept the link to the interview I have read, she really

said some seriously odd things there!!

Maybe I'll read the book, when I get over the shock =) it's not that

I don't also support orgs who support humaner slaughter as an

alternative to the current ways, but for me, personally - that ain't

nearly enough. It's also just heartbreaking to watch an animal die.

In whatever way. Anyone who can watch animals die one after the other

does not have my level of sensitivity.

As for

> eating meat/killing animals,she believes as i do,that humans are

> omnivores by nature.

I believe in evolution ) and I know myself, I do not have the

impulse to kill for food, or to eat half-rotting meat lying on the

street either. Therefore there is no *natural* impulse whatsoever in

me to see animals as a source for food. When I look at an animal I do

not link it to 'food' at all!

I do not say I do not have an impulse to kill. I do have an impulse

to kill - for selfdefense (or defending those I care about). Because

I know I do have this impuls of agression, I know if I really were a

carnivore or omnivore, I would also have the other impuls, but I

don't.

That's just my perspective though )

> i also think there

> are degrees of sentience in animals.This is why i quit PETA,because

> they make no distinction between a lobster and a dog.

I do understand this, but on the other hand, I think this again is a

very different perspective. I have problems with Christmas trees for

example, but I don't have a problem eating veggies. I just find it

depressive to see Christmas trees tossed away like old garbage, it's

disrespectful to life (it's also symbolic for the way western society

treats all life, even its own!), and on top of that - it's

unnecessary. It's waste of life.

And that is exactly why I oppose eating lobster: it is unnecessary.

One can live perfectly happy and healthy without.

But i am still

> in the ASPCA and many other such groups. Kajira

well, there are lots of groups with different views indeed. I also

switched a bit from one to another, and never fully agreed with any

of them. But I still support several (sometimes with money, sometimes

a demo etc), because they do good things for the animals (and they

are probably more realistic and trained than I am). I think that's

important, that everyone helps where they can. But reality doesn't

change my heart.

~light~

maYa

[Guest guest]

>

> -Thanks for the link.Please read Miss Grandin's book " Animals in

> Translation " ,it will help with your misconceptions about her.

I wish I had kept the link to the interview I have read, she really

said some seriously odd things there!!

Maybe I'll read the book, when I get over the shock =) it's not that

I don't also support orgs who support humaner slaughter as an

alternative to the current ways, but for me, personally - that ain't

nearly enough. It's also just heartbreaking to watch an animal die.

In whatever way. Anyone who can watch animals die one after the other

does not have my level of sensitivity.

As for

> eating meat/killing animals,she believes as i do,that humans are

> omnivores by nature.

I believe in evolution ) and I know myself, I do not have the

impulse to kill for food, or to eat half-rotting meat lying on the

street either. Therefore there is no *natural* impulse whatsoever in

me to see animals as a source for food. When I look at an animal I do

not link it to 'food' at all!

I do not say I do not have an impulse to kill. I do have an impulse

to kill - for selfdefense (or defending those I care about). Because

I know I do have this impuls of agression, I know if I really were a

carnivore or omnivore, I would also have the other impuls, but I

don't.

That's just my perspective though )

> i also think there

> are degrees of sentience in animals.This is why i quit PETA,because

> they make no distinction between a lobster and a dog.

I do understand this, but on the other hand, I think this again is a

very different perspective. I have problems with Christmas trees for

example, but I don't have a problem eating veggies. I just find it

depressive to see Christmas trees tossed away like old garbage, it's

disrespectful to life (it's also symbolic for the way western society

treats all life, even its own!), and on top of that - it's

unnecessary. It's waste of life.

And that is exactly why I oppose eating lobster: it is unnecessary.

One can live perfectly happy and healthy without.

But i am still

> in the ASPCA and many other such groups. Kajira

well, there are lots of groups with different views indeed. I also

switched a bit from one to another, and never fully agreed with any

of them. But I still support several (sometimes with money, sometimes

a demo etc), because they do good things for the animals (and they

are probably more realistic and trained than I am). I think that's

important, that everyone helps where they can. But reality doesn't

change my heart.

~light~

maYa

[Guest guest]

-i am always leary of published interviews,ever since i read an

interview which i wrote,and the editor messed it up and changed the

whole damn thing.The celebrity(local person,not a big star)came out

looking like a snob which she was NOT.Also,Miss Grandin does not seem

to enjoy watching the animals die at all.She was concerned because

the way they were being slaughtered was not only painful when it

happened,the way they were brought in had all kinds of peripheral

distractions which freak out animals(and some autistic and

aspies).Kajira

-- In , " maYa " <crna_kuna@y...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> > -Thanks for the link.Please read Miss Grandin's book " Animals in

> > Translation " ,it will help with your misconceptions about her.

>

> I wish I had kept the link to the interview I have read, she really

> said some seriously odd things there!!

> Maybe I'll read the book, when I get over the shock =) it's not

that

> I don't also support orgs who support humaner slaughter as an

> alternative to the current ways, but for me, personally - that

ain't

> nearly enough. It's also just heartbreaking to watch an animal die.

> In whatever way. Anyone who can watch animals die one after the

other

> does not have my level of sensitivity.

>

> As for

> > eating meat/killing animals,she believes as i do,that humans are

> > omnivores by nature.

>

> I believe in evolution ) and I know myself, I do not have the

> impulse to kill for food, or to eat half-rotting meat lying on the

> street either. Therefore there is no *natural* impulse whatsoever

in

> me to see animals as a source for food. When I look at an animal I

do

> not link it to 'food' at all!

> I do not say I do not have an impulse to kill. I do have an impulse

> to kill - for selfdefense (or defending those I care about).

Because

> I know I do have this impuls of agression, I know if I really were

a

> carnivore or omnivore, I would also have the other impuls, but I

> don't.

>

> That's just my perspective though )

>

>

> > i also think there

> > are degrees of sentience in animals.This is why i quit

PETA,because

> > they make no distinction between a lobster and a dog.

>

> I do understand this, but on the other hand, I think this again is

a

> very different perspective. I have problems with Christmas trees

for

> example, but I don't have a problem eating veggies. I just find it

> depressive to see Christmas trees tossed away like old garbage,

it's

> disrespectful to life (it's also symbolic for the way western

society

> treats all life, even its own!), and on top of that - it's

> unnecessary. It's waste of life.

>

> And that is exactly why I oppose eating lobster: it is unnecessary.

> One can live perfectly happy and healthy without.

>

>

> But i am still

> > in the ASPCA and many other such groups. Kajira

>

> well, there are lots of groups with different views indeed. I

also

> switched a bit from one to another, and never fully agreed with any

> of them. But I still support several (sometimes with money,

sometimes

> a demo etc), because they do good things for the animals (and they

> are probably more realistic and trained than I am). I think that's

> important, that everyone helps where they can. But reality doesn't

> change my heart.

>

> ~light~

> maYa

>

[Guest guest]

>

> -i am always leary of published interviews,ever since i read an

> interview which i wrote,and the editor messed it up and changed the

> whole damn thing.

you're right, that's definitely a possibility. A lot of society's

values/opinions can sneak into an interview through the interviewer.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> My dog also knew a lot of words. Saying " walk " in earshot always

get her

> attention as did saying outside. She was smart enough to know

that " walk " meant

> going out the front door and " outside " meant the dog door to the

fenced part

> of the yard.

They quickly distinguish the difference, don't they?

" where's mom " would

> often get her to look for her. Interesting thing is, she usually

knew. If she

> was upstairs and my dog were on the sofa, she would often look up

toward the

> other side of the house where my mother's room is as good as to

say, " over

> there " .

I like when they look in the direction of where the person is to show

you!

>

[Guest guest]

My favorite is when they quote only part of what the person said. The

person's next sentence which may begin: 'On the other hand' 'In

addition' 'But' 'That's what I used to think but now' or ones like

these are left out giving a wrong impression entirely or incomplete

picture.

>

>

> In a message dated 1/1/2006 12:29:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> kajira_2001@y... writes:

>

> -i am always leary of published interviews,ever since i read an

> interview which i wrote,and the editor messed it up and changed

the

> whole damn thing.The celebrity(local person,not a big star)came

out

> looking like a snob which she was NOT.Also,Miss Grandin does not

seem

> to enjoy watching the animals die at all.She was concerned because

> the way they were being slaughtered was not only painful when it

> happened,the way they were brought in had all kinds of peripheral

> distractions which freak out animals(and some autistic and

> aspies).Kajira

>

>

>

> Newspaper editors especially are famous for this. Many of them seem

to think

> it is their right to twist people's words to suit either their

point of view

> or for sake of sensationalism. Several of the " flagship " newspapers

in the

> US have been sued this past year for that and many have seen their

readership

> and/or stock values drop by 30% or more. I see that as a good thing

though

> since it will force them to clean up their act or go out of

business.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-Or,on a live TV interview,where the interviewer will start arguing

with the guest,then let them reply at the last minute and then the

interview is done,so the poor person never really got to say

anything. Kajira and Mac

-- In , " mikecarrie01 "

<mikecarrie01@y...> wrote:

>

> My favorite is when they quote only part of what the person said.

The

> person's next sentence which may begin: 'On the other hand' 'In

> addition' 'But' 'That's what I used to think but now' or ones like

> these are left out giving a wrong impression entirely or incomplete

> picture.

>

>

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 1/1/2006 12:29:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> > kajira_2001@y... writes:

> >

> > -i am always leary of published interviews,ever since i read an

> > interview which i wrote,and the editor messed it up and changed

> the

> > whole damn thing.The celebrity(local person,not a big star)came

> out

> > looking like a snob which she was NOT.Also,Miss Grandin does not

> seem

> > to enjoy watching the animals die at all.She was concerned

because

> > the way they were being slaughtered was not only painful when it

> > happened,the way they were brought in had all kinds of

peripheral

> > distractions which freak out animals(and some autistic and

> > aspies).Kajira

> >

> >

> >

> > Newspaper editors especially are famous for this. Many of them

seem

> to think

> > it is their right to twist people's words to suit either their

> point of view

> > or for sake of sensationalism. Several of the " flagship "

newspapers

> in the

> > US have been sued this past year for that and many have seen

their

> readership

> > and/or stock values drop by 30% or more. I see that as a good

thing

> though

> > since it will force them to clean up their act or go out of

> business.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, that's the dog I was talking about that is so smart! They are an

amazing breed. I always wonder, though, is it hard to keep them from

getting bored? I know Jack s are intelligent and need to be

occupied with something all the time or they'll get into things and

act up. I'm sure a herding dog has more discipline than that, though.

That's neat about the problem skills and ability to understand

complex commands--I saw that when they were giving the herding

commands. My rottweiler, I found, could understand 3 concepts or

commands at once but no more. But I had another rottweiler once who

was so dumb! If you gave him one command, he started panicking--'What

am I to do, what am I to do?' so I had to give up and give him a hug

and tell him, 'It's okay.' He was a sweet boy, though.

>

>>

> > Based on what I read, I

> > think she was a very smart dog, but not the smartest (like some

of

> > the herding breeds, especially the Australian one, I think).

>

> according to people I have an Einstein dog (bordercollie) he's very

> intelligent. He once 'saved' his gf dog Lady by digging a hole,

> because she couldn't get back from one side of the fence to the

other

> side where my parents and Lady's owner were standing. He has

> incredibly problem-solving skills and he understands complex

> commands. I tried training him with sheep, but I have lack of time

> and he has currently a lack of interest. But he does have the

> ability, he wasn't at all bad at it (when he listens and doesn't

act

> as if sniffing around is more interesting). Still need to figure

out

> how to make sheep interesting to him again. He's very nervous too,

> and scared from things he sees which are odd (like plastic bags or

> other objects previously not there etc) especially in teh dark. I

> think he has fantasy The fireworks yesterday were not all too

best

> for him ugh, but then again, which dog likes fireworks? My cat

> started screaming for my help too!! Ayayay.. as if I am the stable

> rock of innerpeace in da house =P

>

>

> I also

> > used the same word to describe different things, like I

> used 'water'

> > for rain,

>

> funny!! also doesn't like rain very much. Only he loves

> swimming, and he also understands 'water' means 'you're allowed to

> drink now/here' (cause not all the water is clean enough for

drinking)

>

> > gave a big sigh, lay

> > down and was fine after that.

>

>

> hehe, do all dogs sigh like that?? is one big sigh dog ))

>

> ::light::

> maYa

>

[Guest guest]

That's what I think, . If they don't know they're going to die

and don't suffer she's accomplished a lot. I thought about that with

my dog--she has no concept of death and I decided to make her life as

happy as possible and while I tried to keep her healthy and have her

live as long as possible it was better that she enjoy the moment. If

she got sick I said I wouldn't prolong her life at a low quality just

so I could keep her. She died at 12 which was a good span for a

rottweiler but it's still short in the scheme of things.

> > > >

> > > > -Thanks for the link.Please read Miss Grandin's book " Animals

> in

> > > > Translation " ,it will help with your misconceptions about her.

> > >

> > > I wish I had kept the link to the interview I have read, she

> really

> > > said some seriously odd things there!!

> > > Maybe I'll read the book, when I get over the shock =) it's not

> > that

> > > I don't also support orgs who support humaner slaughter as an

> > > alternative to the current ways, but for me, personally - that

> > ain't

> > > nearly enough. It's also just heartbreaking to watch an animal

> die.

> > > In whatever way. Anyone who can watch animals die one after the

> > other

> > > does not have my level of sensitivity.

> > >

> > > As for

> > > > eating meat/killing animals,she believes as i do,that humans

> are

> > > > omnivores by nature.

> > >

> > > I believe in evolution ) and I know myself, I do not have the

> > > impulse to kill for food, or to eat half-rotting meat lying on

> the

> > > street either. Therefore there is no *natural* impulse

whatsoever

> > in

> > > me to see animals as a source for food. When I look at an

animal

> I

> > do

> > > not link it to 'food' at all!

> > > I do not say I do not have an impulse to kill. I do have an

> impulse

> > > to kill - for selfdefense (or defending those I care about).

> > Because

> > > I know I do have this impuls of agression, I know if I really

> were

> > a

> > > carnivore or omnivore, I would also have the other impuls, but

I

> > > don't.

> > >

> > > That's just my perspective though )

> > >

> > >

> > > > i also think there

> > > > are degrees of sentience in animals.This is why i quit

> > PETA,because

> > > > they make no distinction between a lobster and a dog.

> > >

> > > I do understand this, but on the other hand, I think this again

> is

> > a

> > > very different perspective. I have problems with Christmas

trees

> > for

> > > example, but I don't have a problem eating veggies. I just find

> it

> > > depressive to see Christmas trees tossed away like old garbage,

> > it's

> > > disrespectful to life (it's also symbolic for the way western

> > society

> > > treats all life, even its own!), and on top of that - it's

> > > unnecessary. It's waste of life.

> > >

> > > And that is exactly why I oppose eating lobster: it is

> unnecessary.

> > > One can live perfectly happy and healthy without.

> > >

> > >

> > > But i am still

> > > > in the ASPCA and many other such groups. Kajira

> > >

> > > well, there are lots of groups with different views indeed.

I

> > also

> > > switched a bit from one to another, and never fully agreed with

> any

> > > of them. But I still support several (sometimes with money,

> > sometimes

> > > a demo etc), because they do good things for the animals (and

> they

> > > are probably more realistic and trained than I am). I think

> that's

> > > important, that everyone helps where they can. But reality

> doesn't

> > > change my heart.

> > >

> > > ~light~

> > > maYa

> > >

> >

>