On the subject of female aggression..

[Guest guest]

My XH's second wife recently got sentenced for regularly losing her temper and beating their children (that's illegal here), and also for attacking HX, once throwing a bowl of hot water on him (being Aspie and decidedly nonviolent, he would not hit her back). He had enough witnesses that could testify about her behavior, including the kids' daycare teachers.

She got 8 months on probation, 190 hours of society service, and a fine of 30,000 SEK to each of her sons.

Inger

[Guest guest]

Men in general do tend to feel the need to establish dominance. An example is winning a fight. Yin-Yang is a very true symbol for the balance of the sexes. Men get angrier than women, but don't they don't show it the same way usually. It has to do with androgen and the corpus colossum. VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 11/22/2005 1:16:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes: Sounds harsh. Violence is everywhere and in everything. Having the experience of living with females most of my life, I would say in general, they have

considerably more violent or aggressive tempers than any man I've known. I think men such as myself are in much natural ways more prone to giving people the cold shoulder or "silent treatment". I don't know which one is worse honestly. Men have to contain their tempers because if they let fly at another man the chances are they are really going to get hurt. That doesn't mean shot or stabbed, but a serious fist fight can really do some damage.

[Guest guest]

I wonder if it will help her to learn to control her temper?

Lida

Inger wrote:

My XH's second wife recently got sentenced for regularly losing her temper and beating their children (that's illegal here), and also for attacking HX, once throwing a bowl of hot water on him (being Aspie and decidedly nonviolent, he would not hit her back). He had enough witnesses that could testify about her behavior, including the kids' daycare teachers.

She got 8 months on probation, 190 hours of society service, and a fine of 30,000 SEK to each of her sons.

Inger

[Guest guest]

I don't think that all women are more violent than all men - or the other way around, but I think they have a different way of expressing their aggression, and different opportunities to show it.

Lida

a name wrote:

Sounds harsh. Violence is everywhere and in everything. Having the experience of living with females most of my life, I would say in general, they have considerably more violent or aggressive tempers than any man I've known. I think men such as myself are in much natural ways more prone to giving people the cold shoulder or "silent treatment". I don't know which one is worse honestly. Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote:

My XH's second wife recently got sentenced for regularly losing her temper and beating their children (that's illegal here), and also for attacking HX, once throwing a bowl of hot water on him (being Aspie and decidedly nonviolent, he would not hit her back). He had enough witnesses that could testify about her behavior, including the kids' daycare teachers.

She got 8 months on probation, 190 hours of society service, and a fine of 30,000 SEK to each of her sons.

Inger

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Lida:

> I wonder if it will help her to learn to control her temper?

I doubt it.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Lida:> I wonder if it will help her to learn to control her temper? I doubt it.LeifYes.. me too. I think she will even get more frustrated and at most will direct her aggression on other things or different people or new ways.

My mother is a very violent person. I have never seen anything make it less. I wonder if she herself finds that she is violent. She is not able to judge herself in an as objective possible way. That makes it very complicated to change her, I think.

Lida

[Guest guest]

Lida:

> I wonder if it will help her to learn to control her temper?

I recently read Attention's (a swedish ADHD/AS organisation) " newspaper " .

It was about ADHD people in prison. It seems like many of the most dangerous

criminals are ADHD, a very special type of ADHD. There is a trial to

medicate

them with stimulants (Ritalina / amphethamine). I think just maybe violent

Aspie

females will be better able to control their tempers with this medication.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Lida:

> I don't think that all women are more violent than all men - or the other

way around, but I think they have a different way of

> expressing their aggression, and different opportunities to show it.

Neither do I. The prison statistics as well as crime statistics clearly show

that males are more aggressive and

violent than women. However, I wonder if the roles aren't reversed when it

comes to Aspies. I don't know

a whole lot of Aspie males that have problems controlling their tempers, but

I do know many female Aspies

that have.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Lida:> I don't think that all women are more violent than all men - or the otherway around, but I think they have a different way of> expressing their aggression, and different opportunities to show it.Neither do I. The prison statistics as well as crime statistics clearly showthat males are more aggressive andviolent than women. However, I wonder if the roles aren't reversed when itcomes to Aspies. I don't knowa whole lot of Aspie males that have problems controlling their tempers, butI do know many female Aspiesthat have.Leif

Interesting subject. I am not sure about that, but I don't know many female Aspies, apart from myself. I don't have problems controlling my temper and am not aggressive.

But I do think that women have different opportunities to show aggression. I mean, a woman who is mean to her children in a cynical way will not be called 'aggressive' so easily because it is not noticed, but it is a form of aggression. A nurse who lets the sick man crying in his bed for just this half hour longer than needed, because she doesn't like him... Things like that.

Lida

[Guest guest]

Lida:

>> I wonder if it will help her to learn to control her temper?

Leif:

> I recently read Attention's (a swedish ADHD/AS organisation) " newspaper " .

> It was about ADHD people in prison. It seems like many of the most

> dangerous criminals are ADHD, a very special type of ADHD. There is a

> trial to medicate them with stimulants (Ritalina /amphethamine). I think

> just maybe violent Aspie females will be better able to control their

> tempers with this medication.

XH actually suspects her to be ADHD, yes. Their youngest son is very hyper

and totally out of control. First time I met him, he grabbed the nearest

antique cutlery and tried to stab me, while saying " I'm going to kill you " .

The older brother seems more AS, like his dad. The wife used to do really

reckless things like take the kids out in a small boat without life vests,

or bicycling in heavy city traffic, not realizing or caring that she was

putting her children at risk. She was so clearly neglectful that he had no

problem at all getting custody of the kids long before this sentence.

My sister would also get an ADHD dx I'm sure. She was equally hyper and out

of control as a kid and has always been unable to control her temper in any

way. What I FEEL like doing when I get frustrated, she does. She seems to

lack that control mechanism that holds one back from throwing china, sharp

or heavy objects or hitting people when one gets upset. She used also be

incredibly strong from an early age and many times inflicted bruises on both

myself, mom and my grandparents. (I was the only one who would hit her

back.) That no one got seriously injured was just pure luck. She also

expects everyone to give her what she wants and plain refuses to do anything

she doesn't feel like doing. Still, she is a very warm, charming and lovable

person (when she's not in a bad mood).

That mass murderer in England who had his whole garden full of victims also

got an ADHD dx. In his case though, he was screwed up as a kid and also had

a car accident that damaged his frontal lobe with the effect that he became

totally uninhibited.

Inger

[Guest guest]

Leif:

>> The prison statistics as well as crime statistics clearly show that males

>> are more aggressive and violent than women. However, I wonder if the

>> roles aren't reversed when it

comes to Aspies. I don't know a whole lot of Aspie males that have problems

controlling their tempers, but I do know many female Aspies that have.

Not I, but yes, many Aspie women are more like men in this regard, and Aspie

men more timid and passive. Not ALL, but remarkably many.

Lida:

> Interesting subject. I am not sure about that, but I don't know many

> female Aspies, apart from myself. I don't have problems controlling my

> temper and am not aggressive.

But I do think that women have different opportunities to show aggression. I

mean, a woman who is mean to her children in a cynical way will not be

called 'aggressive' so easily because it is not noticed, but it is a form of

aggression. A nurse who lets the sick man crying in his bed for just this

half hour longer than needed, because she doesn't like him... Things like

that.

Right. Except for those ADHD women who are incapable of controlling their

tempers, I find the average type of female aggression much more underhanded

and sly. When men lose it, they usually use their fists, but a woman with a

sharp tongue can cause far deeper pain to a man. Or to another woman for

that matter. When I was somewhat bullied in school, it was the girls I

dreaded because they could do things that really hurt, without laying a

finger on you. The boys were just crude brutes who would push you around a

bit; IOW, nothing much to worry about. They were mainly just venting some of

their excess energy and frustration, wheres some girls seemed truly

malicious.

Inger

[Guest guest]

a name wrote:> Sounds harsh. Violence is everywhere and in everything. Having the experience of living with females most of my life, I would say in general, they have considerably more violent or aggressive tempers than any man I've known. I think men such as myself are in much natural ways more prone to giving people the cold shoulder or "silent treatment". I don't know which one is worse honestly.

> Men in general do tend to feel the need to establish dominance. An example is winning a fight. Yin-Yang is a very true symbol for the balance of the sexes. Men get angrier than women, but don't they don't show it the same way usually. It has to do with androgen and the corpus colossum. Grey (the Mars/Venus guy) said that when women have a problem, they need to talk about it, but when men have a problem need to withdraw into their 'cave' and sort it out in their own head before they are able to talk about it. And that yes, this is due to a smaller corpus callossum that makes it harder for men to both talk and feel at the same time.

He also said that women in general are warmer from the start but that they can get really frosty when disappointed/ticked off, whereas men are cooler from the start and can get really hot-headed when upset.

Like Leif, I suspect that this may be a bit reversed when it comes to Aspies or ADHDers. I think it also depends on if one is emotionally introvert or extravert.

Inger

[Guest guest]

a name:

> Men in general do tend to feel the need to establish dominance. An example

is winning a fight.

I think this too is a little different in the average Aspie male. I feel no

need to establish dominance

and I think fist-fighting is extemely primitive. I " fight " with special

interest projects, where I'm pretty

competitive.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I think of serial killers, murderers and rapists--mostly men. Men have the ability to do more damage, usually. Woman can be pretty bad, too, though. The emotions stir it up. Their frustration can get out of hand and a lot of frustration results from lack of power or a feeling of disempowerment (is that a word?) which is a common problem with women in a man's world, even if men are trying to help. Or they may just be mean! > My XH's second wife recently got sentenced for regularly losing her temper and beating their children (that's illegal here), and also for attacking HX, once throwing a bowl of hot water on him (being Aspie and decidedly nonviolent, he would not hit her back). He had enough witnesses that could testify about her behavior, including the kids' daycare teachers. > > She got 8 months on probation, 190 hours of society service, and a fine of 30,000 SEK to each of her sons. > > Inger> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." > > > >

[Guest guest]

" I mean, a woman who is mean to her children in a cynical way will not

be called 'aggressive' so easily because it is not noticed, but it is a

form of aggression. A nurse who lets the sick man crying in his bed for

just this half hour longer than needed, because she doesn't like him...

Things like that. "

I so agree. The passive agression is really difficult to deal with. I

can sympathise, empathise really, with men, when women are like this

since I'm Aspie and not the extreme female type. A lot of men who are

branded as bad fathers because they don't have good relationships with

their children after a divorce where the woman gets custody is a good

example, if the woman plays games. I can't deal with that type of thing

so I know that in situations like that men will try for a while and

then give up, they just can't fight it.

[Guest guest]

" a sharp tongue can cause far deeper pain "

The tongue is one of the most dangerous and hurtful weapons, in my

opinion. Always take care because you can't take it back.

[Guest guest]

>

> a name:

> > Men in general do tend to feel the need to establish dominance.

An example

> is winning a fight.

>

> I think this too is a little different in the average Aspie male. I

feel no

> need to establish dominance

> and I think fist-fighting is extemely primitive. I " fight " with

special

> interest projects, where I'm pretty

> competitive.

>

> Leif

>

I wonder about these things. Is it because both Aspie men and Aspie

women are more in the middle? That seems too simplistic but I've

noticed that on an Aspie forum I can't always tell who is male and

female if their names don't indicate it, whereas on an NT forum, I

usually can.

[Guest guest]

Yes, they recognize more and more how terrible verbal abuse is, but

it's hard to set a precedent for something like that, I would think.

>

>

> In a message dated 11/22/2005 9:53:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> mikecarrie01@y... writes:

>

> " a sharp tongue can cause far deeper pain "

>

> The tongue is one of the most dangerous and hurtful weapons, in my

> opinion. Always take care because you can't take it back.

>

>

>

> I agree with this and I think it is a flaw in the current legal

system. As

> it stands, women have the advantage. If a man beats a woman, he

goes to jail

> and can lose everything in a divorce or other legal proceedings.

However, there

> is no such restraint on woman's tongue. Therefore she could harass

and

> henpeck a man to death or into beating her, in which case she is

still the winner

> because the law favors her.

>

> To be just, there should be statues that treat verbal abuse by men

or women

> just as strongly as it treats physical abuse by men.

>

> I know from personal experience how bad psychological abuse can be

because I

> dealt with it from my father. On the other hand, I have also seen

very cruel

> and manipulative women who have driven men to drink or even

suicide, but the

> men had no recourse. One man I know is married to a woman who

cheats on him

> regularly and is a real shrew. However, he can't divorce her

because she has

> threatened to take half of the business he has spent a lifetime

building up.

> They don't live together anymore and haven't for like 20 years, but

he won't

> divorce her because she still will fight for half at least of his

business.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think both men and women are prone to violence - I think it is just

a human thing.

Some women also give " silent treatment " and expect you to be a mind

reader and figure out what is wrong.

Being on the recieving end of either treatment is not nice. Violence

and emotional outbursts are scary and as for the " silent treatment "

you just can't figure out what you have meant to have done wrong, if

anything.

>

> Sounds harsh. Violence is everywhere and in everything. Having the

experience of living with females most of my life, I would say in

general, they have considerably more violent or aggressive tempers

than

any man I've known. I think men such as myself are in much natural

ways

more prone to giving people the cold shoulder or " silent treatment " .

I

don't know which one is worse honestly.

[Guest guest]

I can get angry/frustrated with things and even sometimes people -

but more generally systems in this world that are stupid, ineffective

and annoying. I don't hit others when I am angry (although I did when

younger) - I will occasionally throw something (very rare and not at

living things).

My son has a hard time controlling his temper, as did I when I was

younger. As I have said before he now rips up newspapers, which seems

to work for him. I must admit recently when going through a lot of

paperwork and ripping and shredding things no longer needed was very

satisfying :-) apart from the thoughts about all the waste and poor

trees :-(

>

> Lida:

> > I wonder if it will help her to learn to control her temper?

>

> I doubt it.

>

> Leif

>

> Yes.. me too. I think she will even get more frustrated and at most

will direct her aggression on other things or different people or new

ways.

>

> My mother is a very violent person. I have never seen anything make

it less. I wonder if she herself finds that she is violent. She is

not able to judge herself in an as objective possible way. That makes

it very complicated to change her, I think.

>

> Lida

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" I don't know a whole lot of Aspie males that have problems

controlling their tempers, but I do know many female Aspies that have.

>

> Leif "

I have known male aspies that have problems with controlling their

tempers.

>

> Lida:

> > I don't think that all women are more violent than all men - or

the other

> way around, but I think they have a different way of

> > expressing their aggression, and different opportunities to show

it.

>

> Neither do I. The prison statistics as well as crime statistics

clearly show

> that males are more aggressive and

> violent than women. However, I wonder if the roles aren't reversed

when it

> comes to Aspies. I don't know

> a whole lot of Aspie males that have problems controlling their

tempers, but

> I do know many female Aspies

> that have.

>

> Leif

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/23/2005 1:10:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mikecarrie01@... writes:

I heard the guy that invented voice mail say that he would never have invented it if he'd have known how it would be used and how annoying it is.

Did you know that you can press '00' or '000' (zeros) on most voice mail systems at each prompt to bypass them and get to an operator or customer service rep?

Interesting. I'll have to try that next time I'm stuck with one of those things.

[Guest guest]

My ex-wife was like this, but I never fell for it. ly, the

silence was a nice gift which I appreciated. The longer she stayed

silent the better.

Unfortunately, while she was being silent, she was also brooding,

and then she would finally explode.

During marriage counseling, I suggested that she could perhaps

develop some equillibrium if she tried not to push my buttons and

just talked about what was on her mind.

My marriage counselor agreed.

The result was her quitting counseling.

I divorced her not long after when she began cheating on me with a

man that she could probably manipulate much easier.

Tom

Some women also give " silent treatment " and expect you to be a mind

reader and figure out what is wrong.

[Guest guest]

I do not feel the urge to destroy things very often, but when I do, I

usually have something saved for the purpose. Usually it is something

that is already broken and something that I was going to throw out

anyway.

I once asked my counselor whether these violent outbursts were

acceptable, and she said it was no different that using a punching bag

or a wiffle bat, although she recommended doing it in private so as

not to startle anyone else.

Tom

I can get angry/frustrated with things and even sometimes people -

but more generally systems in this world that are stupid, ineffective

and annoying. I don't hit others when I am angry (although I did when

younger) - I will occasionally throw something (very rare and not at

living things).

My son has a hard time controlling his temper, as did I when I was

younger. As I have said before he now rips up newspapers, which seems

to work for him. I must admit recently when going through a lot of

paperwork and ripping and shredding things no longer needed was very

satisfying :-) apart from the thoughts about all the waste and poor

trees :-(

[Guest guest]

I do not feel the urge to destroy things very often, but when I do, I

usually have something saved for the purpose. Usually it is something

that is already broken and something that I was going to throw out

anyway.

I once asked my counselor whether these violent outbursts were

acceptable, and she said it was no different that using a punching bag

or a wiffle bat, although she recommended doing it in private so as

not to startle anyone else.

Tom

I can get angry/frustrated with things and even sometimes people -

but more generally systems in this world that are stupid, ineffective

and annoying. I don't hit others when I am angry (although I did when

younger) - I will occasionally throw something (very rare and not at

living things).

My son has a hard time controlling his temper, as did I when I was

younger. As I have said before he now rips up newspapers, which seems

to work for him. I must admit recently when going through a lot of

paperwork and ripping and shredding things no longer needed was very

satisfying :-) apart from the thoughts about all the waste and poor

trees :-(