Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I think not lying is a good policy to have as one's 'default setting' (as Ilah called it in another context). But that there ARE situations that may warrant it. Let's say you lived in Europe during the nazi period and were hiding refugees in your attic, what would you say if the SS came around asking if you'd seen them? "Not today sir; haven't brought them their breakfast yet."? This is why Socrates tried to make people think for themselves and judge things on a situation-to-situation basis instead of blindly relying on rules and commandments only. They are usually good guidelines but not necessarily applicable in EVERY situation. What I can't stand is when people lie on a regular basis about small things e.g. giving insincere compliments, invitations, promises etc., just to make themselves seem nice. Inger Little White Lies To me, a lie is a lie is a lie. Sometimes lying to someone might save you or the other person embarassment or trouble, and this may be considered socially acceptable. I am not sure I agree with this. What do you all have to say about it? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I think not lying is a good policy to have as one's 'default setting' (as Ilah called it in another context). But that there ARE situations that may warrant it. Let's say you lived in Europe during the nazi period and were hiding refugees in your attic, what would you say if the SS came around asking if you'd seen them? "Not today sir; haven't brought them their breakfast yet."? This is why Socrates tried to make people think for themselves and judge things on a situation-to-situation basis instead of blindly relying on rules and commandments only. They are usually good guidelines but not necessarily applicable in EVERY situation. What I can't stand is when people lie on a regular basis about small things e.g. giving insincere compliments, invitations, promises etc., just to make themselves seem nice. Inger Little White Lies To me, a lie is a lie is a lie. Sometimes lying to someone might save you or the other person embarassment or trouble, and this may be considered socially acceptable. I am not sure I agree with this. What do you all have to say about it? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I think you are right that we humans can justify anything, and that truth depends on perspective. Thus, all we can do is our best in each situation. I personally don't like to lie, get very nervous and have to practice & prepare if I need to do so, and only for a good cause of my own free will. What I will not do is lie on command. Like when someone I lived with told me to say he wasn't home when someone called, even though he WAS! I just cannot do that. Another ex asked me to lie to his insurance company to testify that a bump on the car was not there before he allegedly got it at a specific car park. I could not do that since I had not seen if it was there or not. He was very disappointed but I just coudn't. My parents also got upset about when I answered the door and this woman asked if we had a TV. " Yes, " I replied, since we did. Turns out it was an inspector checking if our household had paid TV licence and now my parents got caught cheating because I didn't have the " sense " to lie about it. Oddly, I was the one who ended up being made to feel bad about being truthful, not them for having cheated. :-( Inger Little White Lies > > > To me, a lie is a lie is a lie. > > Sometimes lying to someone might save you or the other person embarassment or trouble, and this may be considered socially acceptable. > > I am not sure I agree with this. > > What do you all have to say about it? > > Tom > > > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > ! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group " " on the web. > > b.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I have a hard time with this one. I agree with what Inger says about the Nazis--you would definitely lie to them to save someone they're looking for and there's cases like that where the enemy has no right to priveledged information. I have a love of truth and honesty and I want the truth no matter how painful it is. I would be very angry if I was dying of cancer and someone knew but thought not telling me was the best thing to do. But there are cases where I didn't know the truth about something and it was better for me. Generally, though, to me, it's worth nothing to believe a lie and be fine not trying to find out the truth. I feel that most people walk around in a haze of untruth and I try to help people with the truth whenever possible. Um, have you noticed I'm avoiding actually getting down to the nitty gritty of the question? Well, that's where I have a problem. As a child I lied fairly often because people didn't understand me and I didn't want to get in trouble. I felt justified because when I tried to explain why I did or didn't do something or didn't understand, they didn't believe me and it was much more difficult and problematic for all involved, and I was trying to hide from the bullies who flocked to the kill when the truth brought a spotlight on my being different or showed up a weakness. Lying by answering what they wanted to hear just seemed easier. Also, there are a lot of liers in my family, but I probably shouldn't use this as an excuse. I still find myself occasionally doing this, such as with my boss who can be a bully. I'm sure it's not the right thing to do but I panic and resort to lying to save my skin or smooth out the situation. After I've lied, I often wish I could take it back. I'm not sure if I think it's justified to lie to people who don't understand since there's no way to truly connect with them or if I should be scrupulous about not lying and take the consequences, however circular and long lasting they are (bullseye target for bullies). I guess that's probably a fault of mine in itself, that I can't see the black and white of wrong and right here. > > > To me, a lie is a lie is a lie. > > Sometimes lying to someone might save you or the other person embarassment or trouble, and this may be considered socially acceptable. > > I am not sure I agree with this. > > What do you all have to say about it? > > Tom > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 , before I realised I had AS, I often felt forced to use white lies just to survive, because I was unable to explain why I could not do certain things, e.g. talk or socialize at certain times. Now I know that I sometimes have difficulty speaking because I'm too sensitive and that the verbal parts of my brain are not working too well at times. But when I didn't know these things, how could I explaian it? And if I could not expain it, people would just think I'd lost my marbles, or being silent on purpose just to drive them nuts. Easier then to pretend to be ill with a sore throat, even though the throat was not sore at all but WOULD have been if I had forced myself to use it. Things like that I see only as survival skills and have no guilty conscience about it. But I AM glad that I now have the tools to explain (to those who care) and no longer have to pretend or use white lies for self-protection. And I've also become so accustomed to just explaining it as it really IS, that I sometimes do that even when it's not appropriate and give people more info than they wanted to know. :-) Inger > > > > > > To me, a lie is a lie is a lie. > > > > Sometimes lying to someone might save you or the other person > embarassment or trouble, and this may be considered socially > acceptable. > > > > I am not sure I agree with this. > > > > What do you all have to say about it? > > > > Tom > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 " I can see this applying here. It would be OK to lie a little to someone > about their clothes, hair or whatever, though you might add gentle criticism that > the old style suited them better or something like that. " About a week ago, a woman we know asked my husband how her new outfit looked. He said, " It's ugly. " She said, " Thank you, I thought was and I knew I could count on you to tell me the truth. " Of course he had to know that he could say that to her, you can't say that to everyone. Sometimes you have to gauge whether the person can take the criticism or not. If the person tried really hard and it's the best they could do, it would crush them to tell them it looked bad so I might do it in such a way that doesn't actually confirm that it looks good, but still makes them feel good. And rather than someone be depressed about their hair cut, let them think it looks okay since theres nothing they can do about it and it will grow out. I don't like it when people won't do the courtesy of telling you if you have spinach in your teeth or your hair is messed up. I think they should be willing to go out of their way a little and help you out. As evidenced by that woman in the above example, people often get frustrated when they can't get an accurate assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 " I can see this applying here. It would be OK to lie a little to someone > about their clothes, hair or whatever, though you might add gentle criticism that > the old style suited them better or something like that. " About a week ago, a woman we know asked my husband how her new outfit looked. He said, " It's ugly. " She said, " Thank you, I thought was and I knew I could count on you to tell me the truth. " Of course he had to know that he could say that to her, you can't say that to everyone. Sometimes you have to gauge whether the person can take the criticism or not. If the person tried really hard and it's the best they could do, it would crush them to tell them it looked bad so I might do it in such a way that doesn't actually confirm that it looks good, but still makes them feel good. And rather than someone be depressed about their hair cut, let them think it looks okay since theres nothing they can do about it and it will grow out. I don't like it when people won't do the courtesy of telling you if you have spinach in your teeth or your hair is messed up. I think they should be willing to go out of their way a little and help you out. As evidenced by that woman in the above example, people often get frustrated when they can't get an accurate assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 : > There is another way to look at this. During the American Revolution there was a unit called 's Rangers. came up with a series of rules for guerilla style warfare that are still used by the Army Rangers and others today. One of them applies here, in a way. > "Lie all you want to others about what the Rangers can do, but never ever lie to another Ranger or an officer." >I can see this applying here. It would be OK to lie a little to someone about their clothes, hair or whatever, though you might add gentle criticism that the old style suited them better or something like that. Right. No need to hurt someone's feelings needlessly over things that don't really matter. > But you also shouldn't lie to authority figures or to anyone in a way that would matter. White lies are expected, but it you lie about everything, people will stop trusting you and you'll make youself an outcast. Telling the police and innocent person did a crime while you knew it was someone else, or spreading slander about a person are examples. That is a VERY good rule. Then you have something tangible to go on as to when it is ok or even preferrable to use a white lie, and when its not. This stuff should definitely be taught in schools. > Now, when it comes to storytelling you also have to be careful. You can't change a story too far from the truth before people won't believe it. The ghost story I just told is an example. Everything was just as it happened except that I didn't run all the way back to my grandmother's, I don't have the endurance to run a mile, especially not carrying 20 pounds of gear and boots full of water from the river. But that makes a better story than saying, "I ran about 200 yards flat out but had to stop before I threw up, then I walked to rest of the way home." LOL! Now I nearly choked on my breakfast! :-D But I've noticed that some of my Aspie friends cannot generalise, make a summary of an event, or in anyway deviate from what exactly happened for the benefit of the reader/listener. They have to tell the whole story from the start, precisely as it occurred, and would explain it like in your last example. That can be a wee bit tiresome so I for one prefer the edited version. :-) Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Just thought of an even simpler rule: Only lie to people who clearly WANT to be lied to. :-) Example: If anyone but your doctor, therapist or a fellow Aspie asks you how you are, they most likely don't really want to know. An aspie would not waste time asking if s/he DID'T want to know. If a female asks how she looks in this or that, try figure out by her tone of voice if she wants the truth or not. If that is too difficult, just do it by math instead: I estimate is that less than 0.1% of non-Aspie women want the truth. With Aspie women, just reverse the figures. :-) Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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