Re: Ghost stories, anyone?

[Guest guest]

Tom asked:

> Anyone have any ghost stories you'd care to share in anticipation of

> Halloween?

I don't like Halloweeen. :-(

And I don't understand why a country where such a large part of the

population are active Christians, would want to celebrate a Keltic pagan

holiday?

Here in Sweden we have All Saints Day when we go and light candles on our

kin's graves. That is very beautiful and serene.

And, btw, " ghosts " are usually just people who no longer have a physical

body.

(Guess I'm getting PMS again...)

:-)

Inger

[Guest guest]

When I was in high school I had an encounter. My grandmother's place was in Northern Virginia on the Rappahannock River. The family had lived there for a long time, not that house, but in that area.

About a mile down from where my grandmother lived there was an old abanndonned house. It was probably an early 1800s two-story place that was in poor condition. Well, I was out by myself and had walked down the river quite a ways with the tide coming in. I had made it to the point and a distance back but I was getting beat from walking in knee deep water (by this time about 2 miles worth of it I guess), so I went up the high bank and stayed along the treeline.

Not long after that I can to the house. I walked around it outside and came to the front. The front was a two-story porch that was falling apart. Still, it was sturdy enough and I went inside. The interior was in very good shape, for the most part. It was showing its age and lack of attention, but it was still quite sound. The only exception being what was probably the dining room where a tree had fallen against and torn open the roof. I saw that on another trip, I didn't get that far this time.

Coming through the front doors there was a hall that lead back a ways before it turned to the right and there was a straight stairway leading to the second floor right there facing the door. To the left and right were doorways into other rooms. I went in to the room on the right, the one that faced the river.

I was about in the middle of the room when I saw something move behind me in the corner of my vision. Turning quickly, nothing was there. As I straightened up, it moved again on my other side. This time I knew I sw something so I spun around fast and brought up my rifle. Nothing there. At this same time a chill passed through the room.

With that, I left the room about to go outside. When I looked at the steps, I could have sworn I saw something standing there up near the top. Whatever it was encouraged me to hurry on out the door. I trotted on about 50 yards out, but I'm not really sure just how far off it was. Turning around I noticed something odd about the house. The front was in light shadow, but there was an even darker shadown standing in the door. It looked like a figure in black robes that covered it from head to toe and it was transparent like a deep shadown that was standing in the open air. That really freaked me out and out of reflex I brought my rifle up into a ready position. This might have provoked it because the shadow came through the door onto the porch. I didn't bother to shoot. I just took off.

When I got back to my grandmother's place I didn't tell anyone about what had happened. Those hyenas would have just laughed and I'd have never heard the end of it. That night sometime well after dark, I was awakened by an odd feeling. I was in bed and there was a definite presence in the room. It was a malevolent and oppression feeling. I asked if it was the thing from the house and the feeling intensified. I said I had just been looking and hadn't meant any harm. That didn't work and instead the feeling drew closer and more intense. I told it in the name of God to leave me be. It stopped just like flipping a switch. The room felt normal again.

A year or so later I took a friend to that house. I had not told him about what had happened. We went in the front door and checked out some of the rooms on the first floor. When we went to that room where my encounter started, he stopped and looked up the stairs. He asked me if I saw something move on the steps, something like a person. I told him no, but I also said out loud that we were just there to admire the house because we liked architecture. Strangely, the mild oppression we had been feeling lifted and we had no other real problems in the house even though we explored all the safe parts of it. We did hit sort of a cold spot near the top of the stairs, but that could also have been a natural reaction to the railing having long since vanished.

[Guest guest]

Halloween was originally a rather series adult affair in the US. That changed after WW2. At that time, like so much else, children hijacked it. It quickly went from a semi-religious holiday to trick or treat. Today there is no trace of either the pagan or Christian aspect of the holiday. Like so much else, it has been commercialized to an obscene degree.

[Guest guest]

I'm often thought what we need is a change in the nomenclature. Holiday is a corrpution of "holy day". I think we should have Holy Days and festival days. That way days like Christmas and Easter would be Holy Days, and most of the rest would be Festival Days. Adding something like a Nation Day would be good too. That way you could have days like The Fourth of July, Memorial day, etc. which are secular days celebrating the nation's history could also be included. In addition, I would forbid sales or specials and overcommercialization of the Holy and National days. The meaning of those days needs to be preserved not lost in commercial hype.

This might mean the creation of more special days but that wouldn't be a problem. Halloween would be broken up to have the Holy Day at the proper time and the festival day the next. As for people with other religions, they could tell their employer which Holy Days they favored and could take those days off but would have to come on the other days. It would have to be kept under control and within reason though.

[Guest guest]

>

> Tom asked:

> > Anyone have any ghost stories you'd care to share in anticipation

of

> > Halloween?

>

> I don't like Halloweeen. :-(

>

> And I don't understand why a country where such a large part of the

> population are active Christians, would want to celebrate a Keltic

pagan

> holiday?

>

> Here in Sweden we have All Saints Day when we go and light candles

on our

> kin's graves. That is very beautiful and serene.

>

> And, btw, " ghosts " are usually just people who no longer have a

physical

> body.

>

> (Guess I'm getting PMS again...)

>

> :-)

>

> Inger

>

I have to agree with you, Inger. I know most people look at it as

harmless fun and I understand that, but I see below the surface and

it's way to creepy for me.

[Guest guest]

,

From a religious standpoint, I am starting to view Halloween with

distaste. My dad is the only one who answers the door to trick or

treaters these days.

My mom won't do it because she feels it goes against her religion, and

I won't do it because it seems to me that the kids get more obnoxious

every year and there is only so much I can take before I start yelling

at them.

Tom

I know most people look at it as

harmless fun and I understand that, but I see below the surface and

it's way to creepy for me.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, why not take another day and call it Masquerade Day or

something like that, so the kids can wear costumes and have fun,

instead of taking a day that is something else entirely and dressing

it up calling it something good and fun? There's 364 others to chose

from. I know for adults, gothic is appealing and people like to be

scared and so on but why drag innocent kids into it? I don't want to

offend anyone who loves Halloween (say, I've heard that Aspergers

aren't as into holidays as others) but that's my take on it. And I

have noticed kids getting more obnoxious. You used to be able to

correct children and tell them to be quiet, or stop doing that, etc.

and they would respect you but now they give you a dirty look, talk

back or retaliate.

>

> I know most people look at it as

> harmless fun and I understand that, but I see below the surface and

> it's way to creepy for me.

>

[Guest guest]

When I was a kid we would go around in gruops with a few adults with each group. Even as late as 2000 there were a few groups. Now there aren't so many.

I put some of this on the media. Every year before Halloween they would run scare stories about unsafe costumes and stuff put in the candy. But really, how many kids are going to walk into a blow torch to ignite their costume? Each year also there is maybe one or two cases in the whole country of someone doctoring the candy. Sad for those people but hardly a national emergency. More kids probably get sick and die from eating too much candy than from being hurt by malicious intent. For that matter, what about all that goes on at teenage parties what with the extacy and parents providing beer?

Still, it doesn't really bother me that they don't come. I find it rather annoying.

[Guest guest]

,

Actually, if they are planning on robbing you, the idea is to get you

to put one hand in your pocket and dig for change. Then you've only

got one hand free to defend yourself with. And chances are you aren't

looking at them when you are digging for coins, so they can overpower

you pretty quick.

Tom

P.S. Speaking of odd questions, if someone on the street asks you for

spare change or even a specific amount like 50 cents, don't answer

them with other than " no " and be on alert. What they are doing is

seeing not only what kind of mark you are but if you have change,

you'll probably have cash too, thus making you a target.

[Guest guest]

I've been a pretty good storyteller, or so I have been told. However, I prefer to write them or tell a story that I have either read or had already made up in the past. I can also tell stories about things I have done or others have done and usually make it fairly interesting.

Making them up on the spot isn't easy though. However, once you get started, it gets easier as you go along, most of the time.

[Guest guest]

Halloween is simply another case of the Christian Church co-opting pagan holidays. At first the Church tried to wipe out local customs but that didn't work too well. So instead, the Church just left the holidays in place, but gave a Christian spin to them. Since "Halloween" was sort of a rememberance of the dead, the Church just took it over and kept the same theme for the most part.

By doing this, the people had an easier time accepting Christianity and giving up paganism.

[Guest guest]

What I hate is when a would-be criminal appeals to your compassion.

I've taken someone to a bad area of town under the pretext that their

child needed medicine, only they wanted a ride to go buy drugs, which

put me in danger especially when a guy approached my car; and when a

guy pretended to be broken down as a scam to get money under the

pretext that he forgot his wallet and needed gas money and begged us

to stop. I hate it because there should be something sacred that even

a criminal doesn't touch, because now I won't help people that appeal

to my compassion. But I will still give (almost) anyone change that

asks for it because I don't know their situation and would rather err

on the side of giving to a scammer than not giving to someone in

need. And many times Autistics or others who are having a difficult

time coping or remaining employed become homeless.

>

> We get very few kids anymore. This neighborhood is mostly older

folks and

> there are only a few children. Most of the kids that do come are

from other

> neighborhoods, including the questionable one nearby. For probably

10 years I

> have been letting my mother answer the door while I would keep an

eye on the

> dogs in the next room, and kept the baseball bat handy. Never had

any trouble,

> but at times I have heard the kids ask odd questions like " do you

have dogs? "

> or " is your family trick or treating? " Sounds innocent but no dogs

means

> easier time for robbers and no family mean just the old woman

alone at the house,

> also easier pickings.

>

> Most of them go to the mall. The shops there give out candy and

have sales

> as well. I wonder why they are still doing that because I'm sure

shoplifting

> has to be a real problem. As it is, we turn off the lights at 8 PM

and stop

> anwering the door.

>

> As for myself, I often did it just because it was the thing to do.

The vast

> majority of my candy would go uneaten. My supposed best friend and

his brother

> would eat all of theirs in a day or two. I think I lost interest

well before

> the others did. When we were teens we had Halloween parties at

someone's

> house, but I can tell you those were worse for me than going trick

or treating.

> Some bad memories there.

>

>

>

> P.S. Speaking of odd questions, if someone on the street asks you

for spare

> change or even a specific amount like 50 cents, don't answer them

with other

> than " no " and be on alert. What they are doing is seeing not only

what kind of

> mark you are but if you have change, you'll probably have cash

too, thus

> making you a target.

>

[Guest guest]

Hmm, maybe I should rethink giving change to people as well.

>

>

> In a message dated 10/31/2005 12:56:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> ,

>

> Actually, if they are planning on robbing you, the idea is to get

you

> to put one hand in your pocket and dig for change. Then you've

only

> got one hand free to defend yourself with. And chances are you

aren't

> looking at them when you are digging for coins, so they can

overpower

> you pretty quick.

>

> Tom

>

>

>

> There is also the possibility that the person is also putting their

hand on

> a concealed weapon weapon as well. I know a couple of women that

were being

> threatened reached into their purses and the bad guys ran off

because they

> thought she was going for a gun. One of these women does have a

concealed

> weapons permit and she did pull her pistol but didn't have to fire

it because the

> men were already running away.

>

> I've had to use a stun gun once because I got ambushed but it

worked though.

> I don't know if it was the police or word spread amongst the bums,

but the

> next time I visited that city, just a few months later, the bums

had cleared

> out of the downtown area.

>

> Most of this though is just staying alert and keeping from putting

yourself

> in bad position in the first place.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don't make your heart cold out of fear, .

Just be more careful and aware in the future.

Tom

Administrator

Hmm, maybe I should rethink giving change to people as well.

[Guest guest]

We get very few as well. We live on a third floor condo unit with

only two units on each floor. Very few trick or treaters come by.

Most of the time we don't even have one. Door to door trick or

treating is down lots of places. Adults have deemed it is not safe

for kids and tend to replace it with mall trick or treating or

parties at community centers. Adults now are much more protective

of kids and it has just about killed the door to door trick or

treating where I live.

Ilah

>

> We get very few kids anymore. This neighborhood is mostly older

folks and

> there are only a few children. Most of the kids that do come are

from other

> neighborhoods, including the questionable one nearby. For probably

10 years I

> have been letting my mother answer the door while I would keep an

eye on the

> dogs in the next room, and kept the baseball bat handy. Never had

any trouble,

> but at times I have heard the kids ask odd questions like " do you

have dogs? "

> or " is your family trick or treating? " Sounds innocent but no

dogs means

> easier time for robbers and no family mean just the old woman

alone at the house,

> also easier pickings.

>

> Most of them go to the mall. The shops there give out candy and

have sales

> as well. I wonder why they are still doing that because I'm sure

shoplifting

> has to be a real problem. As it is, we turn off the lights at 8

PM and stop

> anwering the door.

>

> As for myself, I often did it just because it was the thing to do.

The vast

> majority of my candy would go uneaten. My supposed best friend and

his brother

> would eat all of theirs in a day or two. I think I lost interest

well before

> the others did. When we were teens we had Halloween parties at

someone's

> house, but I can tell you those were worse for me than going

trick or treating.

> Some bad memories there.

>

>

>

> P.S. Speaking of odd questions, if someone on the street asks you

for spare

> change or even a specific amount like 50 cents, don't answer them

with other

> than " no " and be on alert. What they are doing is seeing not only

what kind of

> mark you are but if you have change, you'll probably have cash

too, thus

> making you a target.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't understand why a country where such a large part of the

> population are active Christians, would want to celebrate a Keltic

pagan

> holiday?

Cos it's the Christian holiday you mention as well? and both involve

giving thought to departed friends and the Other Side?

It's an understandable holiday to have evolved at the time of year

when the plant life is dying back and life is getting more serious.

>

> Here in Sweden we have All Saints Day when we go and light candles

on our

> kin's graves. That is very beautiful and serene.

Jolly good. It's a witness to not looking at the subject in a scary way.

There's some old masonry vaults under a pub in Edinburgh where they

put on a paranomal fest. All well-lit and civilised. I took part in a

circle, not a seance but a passive see-what-happens circle, and

experienced one of those " cold spots " that are thermally

unexplainable, a quite sharply-defined patch of cold smaller than my

back and in the air just outside the circle. Couldn't imagine they

were like that until I experienced it. It wasn't at all scary, it was

just a phenomenon.

I'm sceptical of any elitist claims to psychic sensitivity, but the

organisers of this thing were taking a position that it can be trained

by practice. But the impression that the " sensitive " gave of this cold

spot, that it came from the spirit of a businessman going back at

least a century who was passively curious towards us, seemed to be

unverifiable and just based on hunches that fitted the location. I

don't say there wasn't a spirit, I just say where did those details

about him come from independently of imagination!

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom and all,

Do we have problems telling ghost stories?

One night when I was at a slumber party in 7th grade, we

were asked to tell ghost stories. My turn came, and I

sat mute and had to pass. I had no idea how to create

one, and no clue how to tell one.

Not that I was accustomed to talking much anyway.

Of course, I disliked reading fiction and ghost stories

were no exception.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Sandi

>

> Anyone have any ghost stories you'd care to share in anticipation

of Halloween?

>

> I have one.

>

> When I was little, my friends and I used to have a fort in the

woods

> near our house. Lost of times we used to hear chopping sounds,

as of an

> ax hitting a tree. We would follow up the sound only to hear it

once

> more in some other section of the woods. Sometimes we would get

within

> a yard or two of the chopping sound and it would end.

>

> Weather had no correlation to this noise. It could be windy or

> perfectly still, and there would be this chopping.

>

> Years later the local newspaper had a column detailing all the

local

> ghost stories.

>

> One of them was about how the settlers came to the area and used

to

> employ Native Americans to chop firewood for them. Most of these

> Indians died of European diseases that they had no immunity to,

and

> others moved on to other areas, yet ever since that time, and up

until

> the present, people hear the thuds of axes in the woods. The

settlers,

> who owned the land that is now mostly public woodlands, would

often go

> out to find out who was cutting wood illegally and without

permission

> on their land, but could never find the culprits, nor could they

find any damaged trees, or would chips, or smell cut wood.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandi,

Though I am a published author, I actually have an easier time

relating true events to other people than I do making up my own

stories.

In groups when forced to speak I am usually ill at ease. When in a

contrived setting and forced to invent a story (of any kind) I find

that extremely difficult).

Tom

Hi Tom and all,

Do we have problems telling ghost stories?

One night when I was at a slumber party in 7th grade, we

were asked to tell ghost stories. My turn came, and I

sat mute and had to pass. I had no idea how to create

one, and no clue how to tell one.

Not that I was accustomed to talking much anyway.

Of course, I disliked reading fiction and ghost stories

were no exception.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Sandi

[Guest guest]

Inger,

The local politicians are a bunch of idiots elected by the idiot faction on the other side of town. We had this one guy run, and win who didn't live in the city, which is a requirement of the law (he got in by saying he was living with his parents). I'll have to check on the rest of his story because I'm a little hazy on it because it reads like a work of satire rather than a real thing.

The rest of them aren't much better. The only decent ones we had: one has moved on to state office and the other, and old American India fellow, retired because of his age.

Freedom of Religion is in the First Amendment. However, it is grossly misunderstood by the majority of people. You hear a lot about the separation of church and state, and the Founders did mean that but in a different way. What most people do is just look at one phrase of the Amendment where it says basically that the state will not support religion. However, the rest of the phrase says the state shall also not infringe on the exercise of religion.

The problem is, aside from the extremist secular agenda, that people don't understand history. When the Constitution was written, almost all European states had an official church which was technically an organ of the state itself. The Founders saw how this was abused and wanted to avoid this problem. So, the Amendment simply prohibits the foundation of a nation church: there can be no Church of America like there is a Church of England. Private practice of religion is to be respected as is the display of religious themes in public places and public prayer. Granted the Founders had Christianity in mind and it should still have favor over other religions because it is by far the dominant religion in the US.

Most other religions can be respected, but it is only common sense that their followers need to understand that they are living in a Christian nation and they will need to expect to see us celebrate it. So all those pointless lawsuits, renaming and cancelling of Christian Holidays should stop and the others just deal with it. They can have their celebrations if they like, but we should be allowed to have ours too. Logically if Christians can't have anything public, then neither should the other religions. The same logic and rules should apply to all.

[Guest guest]

:> I'm often thought what we need is a change in the nomenclature. Holiday is a corrpution of "holy day". I think we should have Holy Days and festival days. That way days like Christmas and Easter would be Holy Days, and most of the rest would be Festival Days. Adding something like a Nation Day would be good too. That way you could have days like The Fourth of July, Memorial day, etc. which are secular days celebrating the nation's history could also be included. In addition, I would forbid sales or specials and overcommercialization of the Holy and National days. The meaning of those days needs to be preserved not lost in commercial hype.

> Great idea, . Why not suggest to your local politician to make a bill about this?

> This might mean the creation of more special days but that wouldn't be a problem. Halloween would be broken up to have the Holy Day at the proper time and the festival day the next.

This is how we have it in Sweden. We have now imported the obnoxious Halloween tradition to Sweden and use it as yet another excuse to go out and get drunk. And then we have our original All saints day on a separate day that is still celebrated with the proper respect for the dead.

> As for people with other religions, they could tell their employer which Holy Days they favored and could take those days off but would have to come on the other days. It would have to be kept under control and within reason though.

Excellent suggestion! That would truly be honoring the Freedom of Religion that your country proudly sports (in one of those amendments, is it?)

Too good an idea for just us to read it, Go for it, !

Inger

[Guest guest]

Re: Ghost stories, anyone?

There's some old masonry vaults under a pub in Edinburgh where they

put on a paranomal fest. All well-lit and civilised. I took part in a

circle, not a seance but a passive see-what-happens circle, and

experienced one of those " cold spots " that are thermally

unexplainable, a quite sharply-defined patch of cold smaller than my

back and in the air just outside the circle. Couldn't imagine they

were like that until I experienced it. It wasn't at all scary, it was

just a phenomenon.

> I'm sceptical of any elitist claims to psychic sensitivity, but the

organisers of this thing were taking a position that it can be trained

by practice.

Of course! ANY psychic ability can most likely be trained by practice -

though it may possibly be easier if one has a temperamental predisposition

as sensitive/intuitive in general. And one has to know how to go about it

correctly, of course. (Safest is to let these abilities develop of their own

accord, along with one's moral maturity, so as not to be temtped to misuse

them by developing them prematurely.)

> But the impression that the " sensitive " gave of this cold

spot, that it came from the spirit of a businessman going back at

least a century who was passively curious towards us, seemed to be

unverifiable and just based on hunches that fitted the location. I

don't say there wasn't a spirit, I just say where did those details

about him come from independently of imagination!

Actually, there IS a way of tuning in to knowledge so that you have the

ability to just KNOW things. My best friend has this ability to a decent

degree. Sometimes when I've talked about someone - say a family member or

friend of mine that's in trouble or something - whom she has never met and

knows nothing about, she can tune into this person and give me accurate

information about them and what they would need to resolve their problem.

I've also been able to do this myself at times, but not as easily or

accurately as she can. That's a matter of training too and I'm not as

interested as she is.

But this does not exclude the possibility of people just letting their

imagination make things up. In the case of the cold spot, that COULD of

course be what they said it was. Or it could have multiple alternative

explanations. I usually elect to keep an open mind but to not believe

anything one way or the other unless I can certify it for myself.

One TV show I enjoyed very much was one where there was a team of real

" ghost busters " which included both scientists, technicians, psychologists

and paranormal experts. They investigated each inexplicable phenomenon

objectively and scientifically, using state-of-the-art technology, without

being either sceptics or believers or being attached to any pre-conceived

idea about what it might or might not be. This had the result that they

sometimes found the phenomena to be imagination or plain frauds, sometimes

things that seemed to be the real McCoy, and some that they were simply not

able to explain so they just left it at that. I wish more people had that

sort of detached, unprejudiced attitude.

Why do we still get so awed by things we can't explain? Even if SOME of

these phenomena are genuinely 'paranormal' I still don't see the big deal?

So what if it's a 'ghost'? Either that is just a recording in time that gets

replayed over and over, or it's someone who has lost their body and possibly

not realized they're dead. What's there to be afraid of? Someone trying to

say hello?

And what's so special about things like telepathy, clairvoyance etc? To me

that is like an 19th century peasant thinking it 'magic' to be able to

produce electricity or pick up radiowaves from thin air. Stunning if you

don't know the technology and natural laws behind it, not magic at all once

you know how it works.

Inger

[Guest guest]

For legitimate reasons, unfortunately. Where I live, there are only two families who have kids at an age where Halloween is something they want to do. This year, most everyone was away. But I had a small Winnie The Pooh one witch and a kid in a red cape.Ilah <theturtlemoves@...> wrote:

We get very few as well. We live on a third floor condo unit with only two units on each floor. Very few trick or treaters come by. Most of the time we don't even have one. Door to door trick or treating is down lots of places. Adults have deemed it is not safe for kids and tend to replace it with mall trick or treating or parties at community centers. Adults now are much more protective of kids and it has just about killed the door to door trick or treating where I live.Ilah>> We get very few kids anymore. This neighborhood is mostly older folks and > there are only a few children. Most of the kids that do come are from other > neighborhoods, including the questionable one nearby. For

probably 10 years I > have been letting my mother answer the door while I would keep an eye on the > dogs in the next room, and kept the baseball bat handy. Never had any trouble, > but at times I have heard the kids ask odd questions like "do you have dogs?" > or "is your family trick or treating?" Sounds innocent but no dogs means > easier time for robbers and no family mean just the old woman alone at the house, > also easier pickings. > > Most of them go to the mall. The shops there give out candy and have sales > as well. I wonder why they are still doing that because I'm sure shoplifting > has to be a real problem. As it is, we turn off the lights at 8 PM and stop > anwering the door. > > As for myself, I often did it just because it was the thing to do. The vast >

majority of my candy would go uneaten. My supposed best friend and his brother > would eat all of theirs in a day or two. I think I lost interest well before > the others did. When we were teens we had Halloween parties at someone's > house, but I can tell you those were worse for me than going trick or treating. > Some bad memories there. > > > > P.S. Speaking of odd questions, if someone on the street asks you for spare > change or even a specific amount like 50 cents, don't answer them with other > than "no" and be on alert. What they are doing is seeing not only what kind of > mark you are but if you have change, you'll probably have cash too, thus > making you a target.>If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Here is what the Wisconsin Synod Lutheran Church has to say about

that:

http://www.wels.net/sab/qa/rel-other-14.html

In my public college classes, one of my professors made the comment

that Christianity has absorbed many forms of paganism over the

centuries and incorporated them into our belief system. I've also

heard a similar claim made by co-workers. They cite examples of

Christmas and Easter and how both fall on dates for pagan festivals.

Others have mentioned the Reformation in connection with the

observation of Halloween. While these remarks do not affect my

faith, I would like to be able to give an account for the hope that

I have. Could you provide me with an answer to address these

accusations?

December 25 was probably chosen as the date to celebrate our

Savior's birth to give new Christians a proper alternative to the

celebration of pagan festivals at that time of the year. It was not

a matter of adopting a pagan festival, but offering a God-pleasing

alternative to a pagan rite.

The date of Easter is the Sunday following the celebration of

Passover because our Savior was put to death on the Friday of that

week and rose victorious on that Sunday. The derivation of the

term " Easter " is uncertain. The Venerable Bede (c.673-735), however,

believed that it was derived from the name of the Anglo-Saxon spring

goddess Eostre. The celebration of Jesus' resurrection undoubtedly

superseded pagan spring observances as missionaries proclaimed the

gospel to pagan cultures as the celebration of Christmas superseded

pagan winter festivals. It is possible that the name of a pre-

Christian festival was adopted for the celebration of the

resurrection. We do not know that it was. However, the origin of a

term is not so important as the meaning the term has in common usage

among Christians today. If there ever were pagan connotations

associated with the term, they disappeared centuries upon centuries

ago.

We do not celebrate Reformation on October 31 because it corresponds

to Halloween, but because that was the date Philip Melanchthon

records for Luther's posting of the Ninety-five Theses.

Halloween is simply another case of the Christian Church co-opting

pagan holidays. At first the Church tried to wipe out local customs

but that didn't work too well. So instead, the Church just left the

holidays in place, but gave a Christian spin to them.

Since " Halloween " was sort of a rememberance of the dead, the Church

just took it over and kept the same theme for the most part.

By doing this, the people had an easier time accepting Christianity

and giving up paganism.

[Guest guest]

Roman emperor Constantine was named Caesar in 306 A.D. Others tried

to take the title, including Maxentius. Several wars were going on

throughout the empire between different parties. Also at this time of

political instability, there was disunity due to the empire being

made up of traditional Romans (called Pagans now) and Christians who

had grown in numbers dispite persecution. Galerius, the eldest

Augustus and most violent of the persecutors of Christians cancelled

his edicts against Christians and then died in 311. In 312 Maxentius'

army came agains Constantine's. Meanwhile Constantine was trying to

decide whether to change the state religion to Christianity or keep

it the way it was. A vision told him to change it to Christianity, so

his army fought under the name of Christ. He won the battle and out

of gratitude he allowed Christianity to be tolerated throughout the

empire (Edict of Milan, 312). Others began to call upon the Christian

God. Several more battles were fought and Constantine became sole

emperor. In an effort to unify the empire he made Christianity the

state religion. He knew that he would have to keep both sides happy

and since December 25th was a favorite festival of Romans, " The

Victory of the Sun God " festival originating with the Babylonians, he

had to find a way to keep the festival so he called it Christmas, the

birth day of God's son. The Sun God Mithra was thought by the pagans

to 'die' when it dipped below the horizon on December 21st and

be 'reborn' on December 25th when it began to rise again. Jesus'

actual birthday is thought to have been in the fall, possibly late

October. The festival celebrations of the pagans included drinking

and eating, merry making (often to extremes) and gift giving. The

Germanic custom of decorating the tree and mistletoe (the ancients

thought that there were spirits in evergreen trees because their

leaves didn't die in the winter, and the decorating of the tree

originated as a means of giving gifts to the spirit of the tree) were

incorporated later.

It is similar with Easter. The fertility or nature goddess Eostre

(Astarte in Babylon, Aphrodite in Greece, Kali in India) in was

worshiped by bowing to the east and the rabbit and egg were used

because they were fertility symbols, as well as other myths such as

Moon Hare and Golden Egg. It was celebrated on the first Sunday after

the first full moon after the spring equinox and was too important to

the pagans, too much a part of their life, for them to give up under

Christianity so it was incorporated.

>

> Halloween is simply another case of the Christian Church co-opting

> pagan holidays. At first the Church tried to wipe out local customs

> but that didn't work too well. So instead, the Church just left the

> holidays in place, but gave a Christian spin to them.

> Since " Halloween " was sort of a rememberance of the dead, the

Church

> just took it over and kept the same theme for the most part.

>

> By doing this, the people had an easier time accepting Christianity

> and giving up paganism.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This I shall do.

>

> Hmm, maybe I should rethink giving change to people as well.

>