Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

July 10, 2006

I really do not know what to say that can help, I only deal with one child who is officially on the spectrum although I also have one with "depression" (who wouldn't be depressed dealing with this type of thing as a teenager!?) and one who is to quote the doctors "probably got ADHD but we do not wish to make a diagnosis too early". (I personally do not know with him, I think he is NT, but picking up some behaviors from his sister/the stress etc.) he is much more outgoing than she was, and I do not see the similar behaviors with him or "sense" that something is different." I have been a single mom for 5 years and it can get SO overwhelming dealing with all this on your own with no real support system, half the people around you and in your family thinking you are just "attention seeking" or a poor parent. The only thing that has kept me going is knowing that I am the only one they have to make sure they get the care and attention they need. If I don't make sure they get

what they need, who will? I want them to grow up to be the best people they can be, I want them to be successful! As human beings, not monetarily. I do not care what they do in life as long as they are good people who feel good about themselves. It is SO lonely and frustrating and exhausting and yes, STRESSFUL, especially when you are lying in bed at night after you have FINALLY settled them down and you are SO upset wondering what you did to deserve this or why noone understands or what you can do to help them and you can't even cry because you are just too drained and exhausted! And who to share this with to make you feel more normal, just to find out you are not the only one! I have gotten this from this board. As well as alot of wonderful advice and resources but I think the best part has been to know someone understands...... Now I have finally found a wonderful man who is not scared off

by my daughter (trust me, she tried! LOL) she actually likes and so do my other kids. Now we just have to get 5 kids and two adults to get along in one family, at least fairly well. But I have someone to share the responsibility with someone to say HEY! That is your mom, you don't hit/kick her or call her those names. (not that it always stops her but at least she usually has enough respect/control to go off by herself when we tell her this and try to get back in control) It is nice to hear someone stick up for mom sometimes though! Just remember, your reward will be the wonderful, caring people they grow up to be even if never typical, they can't help but be "good" people when their mom cares so much about them! good luck and God Bless! DeeDeeJen <diegowench@...> wrote: http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/ WOW; really, this says more than I could ever say. I was absolutely amazed by just the front page!!!!!!!!! Just as a short intro, I have two kids in the autism spectrum. The spectrum is wide - but autistic disorders are autism disorders. When my daughter Hope was around 18 months old - give or take a couple of months, we started seeing very strange behaviors; she was throwing outrageous tantrums - not normal ones - really violent ones - she would bang her head on the floor until she bruised, she began kicking and biting herself and hitting herself in the face. When I went to Balboa (naval medical center) I was told that I was being hysterical, i got advice ranging from time outs (yeah you try to restrain a violent child sometime - she almost broke my nose several times) to spanking her. NOTHING WORKED. She was doing ok (read about the same) until the schools said she was missing a dpt/mmr. Now I

know she had already had it - but it wasn't on her record. So, like sheep to the slaughter we got our child those shots. Withing a matter of weeks, the problematic behaviors increased, she was biting herself until she bled, banging her head until she bled, she was attacking her sister constantly, she kicked her teacher, then finally she was removed from her private kindergarten. Now, at this point, the finger pointing started - My husband said I was too hard on her, I accused him of favoritism, because the stress levels were high. At this point, I was working two jobs - one regular one freelance. I stayed at home with Hope trying to get her into regular school. I had Sara's provider watch her. Within a matter of 2-3 days we were getiting calls almost daily, she bit someone, she pulled her own hair out, she bit something until her lips were bleeding. The provider was also calling daily. Hope had always been "hyperactive"

so I called the psychiatrist who treated my 9yo, and he started her on adderall (oops she started adderall about 1 month prior to being kicked out of private school). I then contacted a developmental psychologist and asked for a full eval. This took around 2 months - finally the dx came back - autism. I realize the more I think of it that each escalation of behavior was preceded by an immunization. We saw a series of audiologists to test her hearing because she didn't appear to hear - I went back and forth to the doctors at Balboa, they soon started labeling me as an attention seeking mom/navy wife. So, what would be different if someone had paid attention? Had read between the lines? If I knew about immunizations? Would she still be autistic today? I don't know - I think she would have some developmental problems but autism??? NO. The constant meltdowns? NO Attacking her sisters, herself, her brother, her parents? NO Would my husband and I have all of the marital problems we have? Probably not. What about the stress levels??? So, at this point I have more questions than I have answers. My life is insane, I deal with violence in my household daily. I frequently feel like I a teetering on the edge of sanity. My nine year old becomes increasingly hateful and out of control, smart mouthed and hateful on a daily basis. She has severe adhd and is reacting very dramatically to the

constant physical attacks, the constant having to take second place.... I HATE THIS! Yes, there are many people who take on the CDC and sue them, but us???? First of all, we are a military family and thus money is tight. I cannot concentrate on more than one thing at a time, my husband is gone, and I am so on edge, so frustrated, I cry almost every day. The military is supposed to be so supportive, get an EFM I am told. Then I put one in to find out that the only thing that does is make sure that jarrod goes alone if he gets transferred somewhere that there is inadquate medical care - WOW - that is

sure supportive NOT. I sent in Hope's paperwork, and it was denied as it was not signed by an MD, well, lets see Hope's doctors at Balboa were MDs only to find out that they think I am a hysterical ineffectual mother. The schools recognize her autism, the developmental psychologist recognizes it, her psychiatrist recognizes it - so what do I do????? I have no fucking idea. If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they wentWill There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.Ben A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loveshimself.Josh Billings Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business.

July 10, 2006

Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in

neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of

researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove

absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I

believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but

it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm

diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is

going on with them.

BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the

diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different

since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5

younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies.

Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is

immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a

pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into

assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if

there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has

said, however, that there should be some med that the " other people "

(his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them

nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.

He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person.

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they

are. -- W. Gardner

July 11, 2006

Well said Annie.

I wouldn't change my son for anything either.

Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is going on with them.BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5 younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. :)Annie, who loves ya annie@...-- Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they are. -- W. Gardner

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 has notified the sender that this message has been received.

July 11, 2006

When my son was first diagnosed with autism, I was very skeptical

about the mercury/autism link. I felt it the theory was caused by

parents that wanted something or someone to blame and that not

vaccinating was irresponsible. As time went on, the claims seemed to

make more and more sense. What really got my attention is a lady I

met that became autistic at the age of 8 - right after she got the

MMR. How do I respond to that? She had a son that was diagnosed

with Kanner's autism (born with it - never developed). She was told

he would probably never learn to walk and talk. She believe however

he was poisoned by the metals in his Hepatitis B vaccine which is

given in the hospital at birth. She did chelation and now he is only

a couple years behind developmentally (I think he is about 8 or 9

now).

I do not believe vaccines are the cause of autism though. Metal

poisoning is. The mercury and aluminum in vaccines is one source of

metal poisoning but not the only source. Until this is recognized,

the claim of vaccine injury will continue to be laughed off because

what about the kids that have never been vaccinated but are

autistic. Other sources of metals can be antimony and arsenic from

beds and bedding, various metals in water or cookware, dental work

and a whole assortment of metals from mom during pregnancy. I

believe my primary source of metals was from medication my mom was

given while she was pregnant while she was pregnant. The level of

mercury in it made her lose all her hair which never grew back. I am

aspergers. I'm sure I gave my kids a load of their own before they

were born.

I used to talk to another mom in my homeschool group about the

dangers of mercury and I could tell by her demeanor she did not

believe it. Less than a year later she sought me out for more

information. Her pre-teen son had dental work done with amalgam

fillings. All of a sudden, he has multiple food intolerances,

slurring his speech, forgetting things such as how to write, odd

stims and behaviour problems. The more she described how he had

changed in a matter of a month, the more it sounded like autism.

After looking at the medical records and comparing dates of vaccines

vs. health issues, I have noticed a connection. My oldest son

started having symptoms of Rheumatoid Arthritis a week after his

MMR. My 3rd, autistic child started to regress right after his MMR.

My 4th son started having symptoms of celiac disease (which is

genetic yet requires some sort of trauma to trigger it) right after

his DPT. Something is going on here.

What has even further convinced me autism is metal poisoning is the

number of moms I have met in my autism support group that have done

chelation. Before chelation, they would discuss how frustrated they

are with slow progress but though some have slow progress, some have

had near-miraculous changes in an extremely short period of time. I

just couldn't say it was a coincidence.

I have heard time and again about adults on the spectrum that say

they like who they are and would not want to be " cured " . This is not

surprising. One of the big issues for those of us on the spectrum is

avoiding change. To be cured would make life different from what we

know it to be. That is unimaginable. The lower functioning one is,

I'm sure the harder it would seem to be.

To want our kids to get better has nothing to do with accepting

them. It is wanting the best for them. Even NT adults like to do

things to better themselves. They read self-help books, take adult

school classes or work toward another degree. They go on diets and

work out at the gym. This is not an issue of acceptance but our

natural desire to be all we can be.

I can't buy that autism would ever be preferred if one were to

understand the other side. Who likes being teased? Who like hurting

other's feelings because they don't understand how their words might

be taken? Who likes having so many food intolerances and the pain

and/or bowel issues that go along with it? I just don't buy it.

I will never accept the statement that autism is genetic. It is just

not possible to have an epidemic from a genetic condition. It used

to be 1 in 10,000 but now is 1 in 150. That is scientifically

impossible. Some argue that it is just because they were

misdiagnosed before. If that is the case, the number of those with

diagnosis of MR or other conditions would go down but that has not

been the case. There was a study done in the state of California

funded by the government to determine the validity of accusations

that the increase is due to changes in diagnosis. The final

determination is that autism has increased and could not be explained

in any other way. The only thing I can believe could be genetic is

the degree in which the body can naturally eliminate metals on it's

own.

I do like who I am and recognize the skills I have that I can

attribute to autism. The negatives however outweigh the positives.

As a parent of both NT and ASD kids, I can see what life should be

like. As I am searching for answers for my son, I am also doing what

I can to make myself better. So far, my life has been better for it.

>

> Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference

in

> neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of

> researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that

prove

> absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I

> believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury

sensitivity, but

> it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a

firm

> diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is

what is

> going on with them.

>

> BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got

the

> diseases before the injection was available. But he's been

different

> since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child

and 5

> younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical

babies.

> Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it

is

> immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life

is a

> pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved

into

> assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that

if

> there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has

> said, however, that there should be some med that the " other

people "

> (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make

them

> nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.

>

> He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person.

>

> Annie, who loves ya annie@...

> --

> Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people

they

> are. -- W. Gardner

>

July 11, 2006

I don't think that anyone would want to change anything. The thought that I had a hand unwittingly in damaging my child's ability to function is a difficult cross to bear. <freecyclemail@...> wrote: Well said Annie. I wouldn't change my son for anything either. Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol) Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury

sensitivity, but it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is going on with them.BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5 younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that

would make them nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. :)Annie, who loves ya annie@...-- Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they are. -- W. Gardner No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 has notified the sender that this message has been received. If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they wentWill There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.Ben A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loveshimself.Josh Billings

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

July 11, 2006

I also wouldn't change my son! He is remarkable!! And you know what? He told me and he has told his teacher, this past school year, that he wouldn't like to not have aspergers. He says it would make him the same as everyone else and he feels that his being different is a great thing! And I have to agree with him!

As for the immunization thing, I have two sons, both have had all the regular immunizations, and one is AS and one is NT. I'll keep immunizing. Don't want to take the chance of them getting any of those things we immunize against! There are many, much worse things than AS. (just my opinion, of course, don't want to get into a feud about this!)

Estevan, Saskatchewan

Canada

-- Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

Well said Annie.

I wouldn't change my son for anything either.

Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is going on with them.BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5 younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. :)Annie, who loves ya annie@...-- Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they are. -- W. Gardner

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006

has notified the sender that this message has been received.

July 11, 2006

You must have misunderstood my post. I do now believe vaccines can

cause autism but don't believe it is the sole cause. For some kids

the vaccine alone could be the cause. For some, they may already

have an assortment of metals in their body and the vaccines are just

the proverbial " straw that broke the camel's back " . For others, the

vaccines have nothing to do with it but the other metals the child

was exposed to was the cause.

What I am saying is one cannot give a blanket statement that vaccines

is the sole cause of autism because that is not true. I know

numerous autistic kids that have not had a single vaccine. Vaccines

however are a major player in the poisoning of our kids though. I

feel we lose credibility when we say vaccines are THE cause of autism

because it does not take into account those that were never

vaccinated.

For my autistic son, I feel his autism is due to a combination of

metals and undiagnosed celiac disease. He started out with the

metals from me when I carried him. Then I put him in a playpen

drenched in antimony and arsenic. Then I dutifully had him get all

his vaccines. It was too much for his little body to take. I had

him tested for heavy metals and mercury barely showed up but his

level of antimony was so high, the lab mentioned to the doctor they

thought it was an autopsy!

> >

> > Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn

difference

> in

> > neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of

> > researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that

> prove

> > absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I

> > believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury

> sensitivity, but

> > it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a

> firm

> > diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is

> what is

> > going on with them.

> >

> > BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got

> the

> > diseases before the injection was available. But he's been

> different

> > since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child

> and 5

> > younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical

> babies.

> > Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused

it

> is

> > immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his

life

> is a

> > pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved

> into

> > assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well,

that

> if

> > there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has

> > said, however, that there should be some med that the " other

> people "

> > (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make

> them

> > nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.

> >

> > He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person.

> >

> > Annie, who loves ya annie@

> > --

> > Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of

people

> they

> > are. -- W. Gardner

> >

>

July 13, 2006

>>I don't think that anyone would want to change anything. The thought that

>>I had a hand unwittingly in damaging my child's ability to function is a

>>difficult cross to bear.<<

I think perhaps you need to release yourself from that. You did not have a

hand, unwitting or witting, in damaging your child's ability to function. DO

NOT BLAME YOURSELF.

in England

July 13, 2006

I completely agree. Both my girls are immunized & I

have one with AS & one NT. I understand how people

would want to blame autism on something but sometimes

things just happen with no rhyme or reason. I have MS

& I have no family history of this. No one really

knows why & I would make myself crazy trying to figure

out what caused it. There are so many crazy theories

out there. It doesn't matter how I got it because I

still have it!

E.

Colorado

--- & Godfrey <wmgodfrey@...>

wrote:

> I also wouldn't change my son! He is remarkable!!

> And you know what? He

> told me and he has told his teacher, this past

> school year, that he wouldn't

> like to not have aspergers. He says it would make

> him the same as everyone

> else and he feels that his being different is a

> great thing! And I have to

> agree with him!

>

> As for the immunization thing, I have two sons, both

> have had all the

> regular immunizations, and one is AS and one is NT.

> I'll keep immunizing.

> Don't want to take the chance of them getting any of

> those things we

> immunize against! There are many, much worse things

> than AS. (just my

> opinion, of course, don't want to get into a feud

> about this!)

>

> Estevan, Saskatchewan

> Canada

>

" Insanity runs in my family. It practically gallops. "

Cary Grant

__________________________________________________

July 13, 2006

Unfortunately, most of the vaccines that have had the mercury removed

were replaced with aluminum. Not much of an improvement.

I believe some vaccines are beneficial if you can get it without

metals but many of them are overkill. In the last 10 years, there

have been only 5 cased of polio in this country. All of them were

the vaccine strain, not the wild strain. Where did they get it?

From the vaccine! Infants are given Hepatitis B vaccines in the

hospital before they go home unless the parent specifically requests

it not to be given. It amazes me that doctors tell parents not to

take their child out for the first few weeks because of their

immature immune systems yet inject a virus in them. And what are the

risks of an infant getting Hepatitis? I have yet to see an infant

sharing needles or having unprotected sex. By the time they are at

risk, the vaccine has worn off. What sense does that make? Then I

saw the chart mapping the incidences of both rubella and measles from

the CDC. Usually you will see a chart that shows how once the

vaccines were introduced, the cases went down. If you look at the

bigger picture of what was happening before the vaccine was

introduced, you will see it was going down on it's own before the

vaccine and the RATE OF DECLINE DIDN'T CHANGE! These diseases were

slowing down because of better hygiene, not the vaccines.

People, we have been sold a bill of goods. In some of the vaccines,

the risks of adverse effects are much greater than the risks of the

actual diseases. Consider this too. The majority of diseases are

not life-threatening. I have had mumps, chicken pox and measles in

my life-time. I have a couple scars from chicken pox but that's it.

The pharmaceudical industry has let the fear of disease epidemics be

replaced by an autism epidemic. Very sad.

> >

> > Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn

difference

> in

> > neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of

> > researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that

> prove

> > absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I

> > believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury

> sensitivity, but

> > it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a

> firm

> > diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is

> what is

> > going on with them.

> >

> > BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got

> the

> > diseases before the injection was available. But he's been

> different

> > since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child

> and 5

> > younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical

> babies.

> > Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused

it

> is

> > immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his

life

> is a

> > pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved

> into

> > assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well,

that

> if

> > there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has

> > said, however, that there should be some med that the " other

> people "

> > (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make

> them

> > nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.

> >

> > He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person.

> >

> > Annie, who loves ya annie@

> > --

> > Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of

people

> they

> > are. -- W. Gardner

> >

>

> If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go

where they

> went

> Will

>

> There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your

face.

> Ben

>

> A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves

> himself.

> Josh Billings

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

July 13, 2006

We need to shift our anger at the medical community, not ourselves. We

trusted that our doctors would " do not harm " yet that is what they

did. Doctors blindly believe what they are told and pharmaceudical

companies are no different than the tobacco industry. They are in it

for the money only. They are first getting rich off of the numerous

vaccines then they are getting rich off of the meds for seizures,

depression, hyperactivity and digestive issues our kids have. We need

to be angry at the ones responsible, not ourselves.

Well said Annie.

>

> I wouldn't change my son for anything either.

>

July 14, 2006

But why do that to yourself after the fact? If you choose not to vaccinate that's your choice and no one elses, but beating yourself up for something you can't change just isn't being fair to yourself.

The fact is that we have different views....and IMHO this forum really isn't a good place for debating the pros and cons of vaccination, there is bound to be people on both sides who get offended. I've personally removed myself from 2 other aspie groups for the very same reason, it just got too heated over the whole vaccination. We've all been blessed with these wonderful kids! Everything happens for a reason!

Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is going on with them.BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5 younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. :)Annie, who loves ya annie@...-- Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they are. -- W. Gardner

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they wentWill There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.Ben A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loveshimself.Josh Billings

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July 14, 2006

It is what it is. I think that it is important to discuss issues like this, but I agree that things do get very heated. I would hope to learn some from any discourse regarding this issue.... What I am looking for is a place of understanding, and a place of peace within myself. <freecyclemail@...> wrote: But why do that to yourself after the fact? If you choose not to vaccinate that's your choice

and no one elses, but beating yourself up for something you can't change just isn't being fair to yourself. The fact is that we have different views....and IMHO this forum really isn't a good place for debating the pros and cons of vaccination, there is bound to be people on both sides who get offended. I've personally removed myself from 2 other aspie groups for the very same reason, it just got too heated over the whole vaccination. We've all been blessed with these wonderful kids! Everything happens for a reason! Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol) Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in

neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is going on with them.BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5 younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into

assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. :)Annie, who loves ya annie@...-- Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they are. -- W. Gardner No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 has notified the sender that this message has been received. If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they wentWill There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.Ben A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loveshimself.Josh Billings

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/386 - Release Date: 7/12/2006 If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they wentWill There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.Ben A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loveshimself.Josh Billings

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July 15, 2006

I've seen it tear other groups apart and hate to see it happen here over something we will never all agree on.