Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Who cares? > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Who cares? > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Excess calories go to fat even if protein; your program on a fat loss goal will not store protein as fat, a forty per cent protein load is not too much. Your PT will have less work if most of your gym members are adept enough to design and execute their own plan as BFL enables you to do, but I suspect that most trainers have been trained a certain way and anything different is wrong in their minds. PT's usually are convinced that they know what's best for you. Typically if you examine the habits of the people that come to them for help any change would be for the better. Nevertheless most trainers I've come across are pretty sound fundamentally and just don't know the details of the BFL program. Rather than try to lump every trainer into a single category since all are different with different strengths, let me just say that more people have been successful on BFL than have been successful with any one trainer. And the great thing is that trainers are not required to be successful which can save you $50-60 per hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Glenda [ihrgae@...] wrote: > > < PS: the personal trainer I worked out with does not like the BFL > > program but he can't argue that I've lost 63 lbs of fat on a program > > that he doesn't believe in. > > > > > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? > > Jealousy. A program has been developed that has helped thousands of people > and some personal trainers just can't get over their egotistical mind that > something other than their program works. interesting viewpoint, but what I have read is that bill is not popular because he started out against the existing supplement companies selling practices and ended up using the same tactics to sell his products. Deus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Easy, Scully, easy. I just like to compare perspectives, which I think is a pretty rational and objective thing to do. Mulder :-) > > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 , I tend to agree with you. For interest's sake, though, here's what my co-worker (he's not *my* personal trainer, though that's a sidebar job for him) had to say when I sent him a link for the Lean-and-Strong discussion site: " Listen Andy, In the life of a personal trainer you are subjected to all kinds of ideas from various sources regarding what is or is not good for you. You also get an eye for what is true and what is a bunch of baloney. " I have considered the book you are looking at and I think that my assessment is very accurate. The testimonies are in my opinion to be bogus for the most part. People cannot loose that much weight in 12 weeks. Sorry but I have honestly seen thousands of similar testimonies for countless numbers of programs and products which have all been bogus. " As far as Doctor testimonies, they are no more reliable. Many people giving a testimony have a reason for doing so and lets face it, sheer goodness is rarely the reason. There are probably just as many people tearing the book apart as there are supporting it. I want you to know that I desire to do neither even though I came on a little strong when we last spoke (job security I guess?) " I think that there is a lot of valuable information in the book and I would encourage you to use it as a reference for your fitness future. I would not, however advocate you looking to the book as a sort of dictionary on fitness. Its value is contextual. It has very good answers for beginners and many can benefit from the answers it provides. There are, however, more questions and answers that [than?] the book deals with and they are very relevant to anyone who wishes to get into fitness. I don't mind the book but just realize that it is not exhaustive and there are other views on fitness and exercise planning than what he offers. Fitness is alot more complicated than some may want to think and that's why people take the time to get educated in it. " In a nutshell I would rather encourage you to go with what you have rather than discourage you but at the same time I would hope that you would realize the complexities involved. Every body is different and every body responds to different things. Everyone has a reason for saying what they say and some reasons are viable and some are not. I would recommend this book to beginners with those warnings. I would not recommend the book to athletes or advanced weight trainers due to its lack of depth. I'm sorry if I seem to be running on but I don't want you to get the wrong message. " Enjoy the book and your workouts. When you have grown beyond what the book has to offer or if you just have any questions you can feel free to ask. " What bothered me the most is what he's said lately, several times, about people's testimonies being falsified. Somehow I think that'll get the hackles up of the people on this list. :-) Oh, he's also said that there's no way people achieved in a mere 12 weeks the kind of results seen in the photos in the book - so they must be on major supplements or even 'roids. How do y'all plead? *chuckle* (In fact, whatever responses I get to this, I'll forward to him, though of course without passing along anyone's private info or email address.) Andy :-) > In a message dated 1/23/01 12:03:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, > mdscully@m... writes: > > > > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? > > > > Maybe because so many B4Lers are getting great results WITHOUT using a > > personal trainer? Maybe because BFL simplified what to a lot of people was > > the " science " of nutrition and bodybuilding? Leaner. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Andy, My first thought when reading your post was " did his friend WRITE all this down....how in the world was Andy able to quote his words exactly when they were so exhaustive!!! " :-) Seriously, I, too, thought at the beginning that the pictues were a hoax - they HAD to be longer than 12 weeks (if they were even real!). As I kept going back to the book and website over the period of a year, I kept asking myself if I REALLY believed all those people in the book were lying along with Bill , his publisher, etc. I'll admit that I'm an optimist and try to see the good in people so I could not accept that he could convince hundreds of people to lie about it. I do believe the pictures - I do believe it can be done in 12 weeks (although those are the CHAMPIONS shown in the book...most people take longer), and I do love Body for Life. Do I think it's the ONLY way to get in shape? No....but I do think it's a very livable way to get in shape and stay in shape and have a life, too. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 You know....I've never even thought that the photos weren't real....not ever...when I first picked up a M.M. magazine...and read what Bill was saying...the truth within him shone through....from the word go...he had so much character that there was no doubt in my mind. Mind you I have always been a very trusting person, until someone shows me otherwise...and Bill has never done that publicly anyhow...smile... Personally, I believe you see the best in others, if you can see the best in yourself.... That's what Sara was saying too.....smile.... P.S. Andy's friend did say somethings that were interesting, but unless he's tried the program....I'd discount most of what he had to say....Not to mention that fact that there are so many athletes following the program etc etc....as with anything in life...you learn something and you keep adding to that...BFL is simple for those who need the initial simplicity...and from there you move on....you grow... in your knowledge etc etc....smile Z Karren is now stepping down from the pulpit....heeeeehheheheehhehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Andy, who really knows what is true and false with any particular participant unless you observed them. My results were not as dramatic as the winners, but then if you pick the best out of thousands you're gonna get something better than the average you can expect from the program. I followed a six week program at 24 Hour Fitness called the 24/5 program which was designed by Apex. It advocated six meals, slightly lower protein and slightly higher carbs, supplementation, aerobics and resistance combined with weekly sessions with the PT. I gained strength and lost 10% body fat in 10 weeks ( I extended the program). My point is that other comprehensive programs that deal with nutrition in a sensible manner, resistance, cardio, supplementation and support will work. You can even minimize the supplementation and support part and monkey with the nutrition. Bodybuilding has been around for decades and if you look at each component it has probably been tried before. This program was designed for the ordinary person to get them involved in successfully transforming their bodies using a package of tools. What I like about it, is that it is a very empowering program. It helps the participant to take control of all aspects of their program and change their lifestyle. I believe in and wholeheartedly embrace and advocate being a lifelong learner. I think there is enough robustness for even experienced bodybuilders to gain something from doing the program for 12 weeks. After all it calls for a 10 effort and for someone that is advanced, that is a considerable effort. Muscles respond to the intensity. They don't look for a label that says experienced bodybuilder, do not grow. Progressively increasing the weights you lift causes increases in strength and muscle size when fed properly. The book is written in a very simple style on purpose. It was not trying to convey why on a technical level, but rather was trying to get people to act that had spent years trying things that didn't work. There is a lot of practice, and science in the program if you examine it. It is trying to get away from the concept that more is better and get people to act in a smart and effective manner. This is not the only approach that can get results. Bill updates his advice as he gets more information. For example he recently changed his recommendation from having a post weight workout meal of carbs and protein immediately after your workout out an hour afterwards based upon a twelve week study that showed greater muscle gains as a result. The study is preliminary and needs to be replicated multiple times but he changed in response. We should all keep an open mind. Nevertheless you have people on this list that have nothing to gain by lying or falsifying pictures that have made remarkable progress and get no money from BFL or EAS. Maybe we did not place in the contest, but we are all winners. I can tell you that I am stronger than I have ever been and in better shape, notwithstanding that I could probably jump higher and sprint faster as a 20 year old (I'm a few months short of 50). Today I could run my 20 year old butt into the ground and more than double the weight I could lift on my best day at 20. And my results are not remarkable. Yes I'm dogged and never give up. I have changed my lifestyle which helps. But this is stuff that regular people can do at any age. The program is about life, not body-building or weight lifting or fitness or diets, although each are part of it. It's about change for the better and taking control of your life so that you are the master of your transformation, not a trainer. Trainers are put in the same category as books and this group. Useful resources to learn, grow and as sources of inspiration. Just my perspective. Sounds like your friend has your interests in mind as is trying to be balanced. Please believe me when I say that Bill is not selling snake oil here. This is a very effective program that can help you to change your life. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Sorry about that; I didn't mean to be snippy. You're just in a different place than I am. > > > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I > wonder...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2001 Report Share Posted January 24, 2001 Hi Kit! I just have to say - I think this is another of your many, stellar posts. I hope anyone who neglected to read it or missed it for any reason, will read it now (as I've pasted it below). Enthusiastically, --- FMBC: Fitness and the Mind-Body Connection an unofficial Transformation Support site and " on ramp " for Body-for-LIFE by and Cherita Axel http://fitmind.home.mindspring.com > Andy, who really knows what is true and false with any particular > participant unless you observed them. My results were not as dramatic as > the winners, but then if you pick the best out of thousands you're gonna get > something better than the average you can expect from the program. > > I followed a six week program at 24 Hour Fitness called the 24/5 program > which was designed by Apex. It advocated six meals, slightly lower protein > and slightly higher carbs, supplementation, aerobics and resistance combined > with weekly sessions with the PT. I gained strength and lost 10% body fat > in 10 weeks ( I extended the program). > > My point is that other comprehensive programs that deal with nutrition in a > sensible manner, resistance, cardio, supplementation and support will work. > You can even minimize the supplementation and support part and monkey with > the nutrition. Bodybuilding has been around for decades and if you look at > each component it has probably been tried before. > > This program was designed for the ordinary person to get them involved in > successfully transforming their bodies using a package of tools. What I > like about it, is that it is a very empowering program. It helps the > participant to take control of all aspects of their program and change their > lifestyle. > > I believe in and wholeheartedly embrace and advocate being a lifelong > learner. I think there is enough robustness for even experienced > bodybuilders to gain something from doing the program for 12 weeks. After > all it calls for a 10 effort and for someone that is advanced, that is a > considerable effort. Muscles respond to the intensity. They don't look for > a label that says experienced bodybuilder, do not grow. > > Progressively increasing the weights you lift causes increases in strength > and muscle size when fed properly. > > The book is written in a very simple style on purpose. It was not trying to > convey why on a technical level, but rather was trying to get people to act > that had spent years trying things that didn't work. There is a lot of > practice, and science in the program if you examine it. It is trying to get > away from the concept that more is better and get people to act in a smart > and effective manner. This is not the only approach that can get results. > Bill updates his advice as he gets more information. For example he > recently changed his recommendation from having a post weight workout meal > of carbs and protein immediately after your workout out an hour afterwards > based upon a twelve week study that showed greater muscle gains as a result. > The study is preliminary and needs to be replicated multiple times but he > changed in response. We should all keep an open mind. Nevertheless you > have people on this list that have nothing to gain by lying or falsifying > pictures that have made remarkable progress and get no money from BFL or > EAS. Maybe we did not place in the contest, but we are all winners. I can > tell you that I am stronger than I have ever been and in better shape, > notwithstanding that I could probably jump higher and sprint faster as a 20 > year old (I'm a few months short of 50). Today I could run my 20 year old > butt into the ground and more than double the weight I could lift on my best > day at 20. > > And my results are not remarkable. Yes I'm dogged and never give up. I > have changed my lifestyle which helps. But this is stuff that regular > people can do at any age. The program is about life, not body-building or > weight lifting or fitness or diets, although each are part of it. It's > about change for the better and taking control of your life so that you are > the master of your transformation, not a trainer. Trainers are put in the > same category as books and this group. Useful resources to learn, grow and > as sources of inspiration. > > Just my perspective. Sounds like your friend has your interests in mind as > is trying to be balanced. Please believe me when I say that Bill is not > selling snake oil here. This is a very effective program that can help you > to change your life. > > Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2001 Report Share Posted January 25, 2001 Kit, < Andy, who really knows what is true and false with any particular participant unless you observed them. My results were not as dramatic as the winners, but then if you pick the best out of thousands you're gonna get something better than the average you can expect from the program. > Very valid point! < This program was designed for the ordinary person to get them involved in successfully transforming their bodies using a package of tools. > That it is, and that's why I'm getting more psyched on it everyday! < For example he recently changed his recommendation from having a post weight workout meal of carbs and protein immediately after your workout out an hour afterwards based upon a twelve week study that showed greater muscle gains as a result. > I didn't know that; thanks for the update. Just so I'm clear, then, a person should eat *1 hour after* their workout whether it's aerobic *or* weight-training? < Nevertheless you have people on this list that have nothing to gain by lying or falsifying pictures that have made remarkable progress and get no money from BFL or EAS. Maybe we did not place in the contest, but we are all winners. > Well heck, yeah, that's what I say! My friend's a little thick, though, I'd have to say. :-) < I can tell you that I am stronger than I have ever been and in better shape, notwithstanding that I could probably jump higher and sprint faster as a 20 year old (I'm a few months short of 50). Today I could run my 20 year old butt into the ground and more than double the weight I could lift on my best day at 20. And my results are not remarkable. > I'm glad they're not! Cuz that's just all the more inspiring to the rest of us! < The program is about life, not body-building or weight lifting or fitness or diets, although each are part of it. It's about change for the better and taking control of your life so that you are the master of your transformation, not a trainer. > Yes! I've found already that scheduling my workouts and meals *also* forces me to organize everything else in my life that much more regimentedly, and that's a very welcome change in my life! Don't mean to sound overly spiritual here, but I feel, I dunno, " cleansed. " :-) < Sounds like your friend has your interests in mind and is trying to be balanced. > Yeah, I'm sure he does and is, but he can be quite the contrary person sometimes! < Please believe me when I say that Bill is not selling snake oil here. This is a very effective program that can help you to change your life. > I suspect that's what I'm about to discover firsthand. :-) Thank you to you, Kit, and everyone else on this forum for the loads of inspiration you all give! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2001 Report Share Posted January 25, 2001 No problem! > > > > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I > > wonder...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2001 Report Share Posted January 25, 2001 Bill's current recommendation is wait one hour on both cardio and weight training post workout meals. Hussman suggests differently for the weight training and suggests specific steps to shut down cortisol. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2001 Report Share Posted January 26, 2001 < Bill's current recommendation is wait one hour on both cardio and weight training post workout meals. Hussman suggests differently for the weight training and suggests specific steps to shut down cortisol. > Thanks for the tip. I found Hussman's comment re. eating after weight-training: " While you'll burn slightly more fat by waiting an hour, my personal view is that immediate is better. It's just imperative to shut down those high cortisol levels after weight training. " I think I'll wait an hour regardless, just to be sure I'm getting the optimal fat-burn, which is my primary objective with either cardio OR weight-training. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2001 Report Share Posted January 27, 2001 <What happens to excess protein that is more than the body needs for muscle-building? I've heard either that it gets expelled as waste, OR that it gets stored as fat! Which is it?> As I understand it, any excess intake of calories is stored as fat no matter what source the calories come from. Is this right? Cheryl C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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