Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Usually, articles like this say that Bill has said nothing new, he's only packaged it so the average " Joe " can understand how to build his best body. They make it sound like Bill is some sort of con artist for putting it all together. To my best knowledge, Bill has never pretended to have made up the art of body-building....he did just what his detractors say he did....packaged it so we all could understand it. Thank God he did, too. They also like to point out that in the before pictures the people are usually not tan and not smiling and not standing up straight. This is all true, also, but you can't tell me all those muscles in the after pictures we see popped up because someone stood up straight, smiled and got a tan!!! I've never read any article that had a REAL argument against Body for Life's principles or methods. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 I think the key there is that you have to PAY to find out these amazing " secrets " about Bill and BFL. Give me a break! Jarel > Does anybody know anything about Leonard? His website is > http://www.leonardfitness.com/, and there's an article on a book he's > written (ABDOMINAL SECRETS REVEALED) that contains the following > blurb: > > " Body for Life > > " Does Bill mislead or even rip off consumers? Are the > before and after product advertisement photos real or fake? Find out > interesting, yet shocking facts about Bill , plus the > downfalls and problems with the Body for Life program! Leonard > reveals what Bill doesn't want consumers to know. Save your > money! Throw your Excel spreadsheets away! The secrets are > revealed! " (http://www.absecrets.com/) > > Now for somebody like me who's about to start the BFL program this > Monday, that's not a pleasant thing to read!! What are your opinions? > > Thanks, > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Good point. But to be objective, my impression is that Leonard is a recognized fitness expert. And, again to be objective, lots of the free material at his sight is well-argued and seems to make sense. Check it out for yourself (http://www.leonardfitness.com) Now that's not to disparage the BFL program at all - obviously I wouldn't disparage it when I'm about to start it tomorrow. :-) I just think it's good to get different points of view, and sometimes overlap things. Andy > > Does anybody know anything about Leonard? His website is > > http://www.leonardfitness.com/, and there's an article on a book > he's > > written (ABDOMINAL SECRETS REVEALED) that contains the following > > blurb: > > > > " Body for Life > > > > " Does Bill mislead or even rip off consumers? Are the > > before and after product advertisement photos real or fake? Find > out > > interesting, yet shocking facts about Bill , plus the > > downfalls and problems with the Body for Life program! Leonard > > reveals what Bill doesn't want consumers to know. Save > your > > money! Throw your Excel spreadsheets away! The secrets are > > revealed! " (http://www.absecrets.com/) > > > > Now for somebody like me who's about to start the BFL program this > > Monday, that's not a pleasant thing to read!! What are your > opinions? > > > > Thanks, > > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 I can save you the money. The only way you will get abs that looked ripped is to get your body fat down. There is no spot reducing...You can not target where the fat comes off...It is all controlled by your genes. Now I went and started looked at the sight the first thing that came to mind was the National Inquirer. You know how they have all those eye poping lines tring to get you to read the rag. This guy is trying to sell a book and give you the secret to great abs. Well, I already have. I have stayed the course for 12 weeks and lost 7 inches around the middle. I am almost done with a bulking phase and will start my second 12 week challenge (officially this time) on the 29th. Keep in mind the man is trying to take your money by getting you to buy a book. What better way to spark your interest than to use some cliff hanger about a very popular program and person to sell that book. He does not come out and calls Bill these things directly, but hints at it. Some people just look down on Bill for what he has done. Some don't like him for the way he touted his supplements when they first came out. Some see the body for life program as a gimmic to sell EAS products. Ther are other challenge type programs that you can follow and you can get good results. Some of those say you have to pend x amount of dollars on their products and that you CAN NOT use other supplements by other companies. They do not give anything back form what I can see. Bill gives so much back to society. Is the program about marketing. Why, yes it is. But you are not required to use only there supplements. You can follow the program and not use any of his supplements, just don't expect to win any cash and get an indorsement contract with EAS. Of all the things you can take the MRP is probalby the most essential supplement. As far as that goes lets not call it a supplement, it's more like a meal. People often get caught up over the cost of these things. They often forget that they take the place of a meal. I get a box of deluxe 36 count for 48 bucks at GNC (in a mall where ther is a vitamin world), thats around a 1.42 each after taxes. Tell me what you can eat thatr gives you the amount a protein and carbs for a $1.42. I am starting to bounce. My pointe is the program does work. If you are really over weight like I was you will not see that kind of transformation in the pictures in twelve weeks. I started at over 33% body fat. I am now at 20%. My lean mass has increased 15 lbs as long has no errors occoured. The key is consistancing. just keep pluging away. Throw the scale out the door. It is a bad why to track your progress when working out with weights. You will be building muscle at the same time you are losing fat. There was a time the scale did not move for weeks, but my clothes where getting loser. You will always find people cutting and bad mouthing things that work. You can not please all of the people all the time. That is just the way it is. My advise.... If you want to get in shape and lose some fat...follow the program and stick with it. You do not have to use EAS products to accomplish you goals, that is unless you goal is to try and win some money from EAS. You can get in shape by following the program and not using anything. But, I have to tell you thase MRP's are really a conveinence food. I could go on and on, but I am starting to rammble. The program does work, any one can tell you here through personal experience. Good Luck Doug >From: " Andy Doerksen " <neo-reality@...> >Reply-bodyforlifeegroups >bodyforlifeegroups >Subject: + Leonard = CONFUSION >Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:04:34 -0000 > >Does anybody know anything about Leonard? His website is >http://www.leonardfitness.com/, and there's an article on a book he's >written (ABDOMINAL SECRETS REVEALED) that contains the following >blurb: > > " Body for Life > > " Does Bill mislead or even rip off consumers? Are the >before and after product advertisement photos real or fake? Find out >interesting, yet shocking facts about Bill , plus the >downfalls and problems with the Body for Life program! Leonard >reveals what Bill doesn't want consumers to know. Save your >money! Throw your Excel spreadsheets away! The secrets are >revealed! " (http://www.absecrets.com/) > >Now for somebody like me who's about to start the BFL program this >Monday, that's not a pleasant thing to read!! What are your opinions? > >Thanks, >Andy > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Andy I looked at this site, and I can tell you some of what he says about Bill and The BFL program is totally incorrect. Why not give the program 12 short weeks of your time and you judge for yourself. " Taz " - In bodyforlifeegroups, " Andy Doerksen " <neo-reality@h...> wrote: > Does anybody know anything about Leonard? His website is > http://www.leonardfitness.com/, and there's an article on a book he's > written (ABDOMINAL SECRETS REVEALED) that contains the following > blurb: > > " Body for Life > > " Does Bill mislead or even rip off consumers? Are the > before and after product advertisement photos real or fake? Find out > interesting, yet shocking facts about Bill , plus the > downfalls and problems with the Body for Life program! Leonard > reveals what Bill doesn't want consumers to know. Save your > money! Throw your Excel spreadsheets away! The secrets are > revealed! " (http://www.absecrets.com/) > > Now for somebody like me who's about to start the BFL program this > Monday, that's not a pleasant thing to read!! What are your opinions? > > Thanks, > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 My Freind.. You will always find things that over lap the Body For Life Program. It is getting into shape in the simplest form. It motivates people to help themselves. Even I knew to lose the weight I would have to work out and watch what I eat. With me it was I would always start tomorrow. But tomorrow never came.. until my wife took interest in the program from seeing what it had done for my sister-in-law. You might remember that day when Dr. Peppers stock droped. You don't have to follow the program you can do you own thing. It all comes down to getting off you butt, exersising and eating right. Which is why you will always see things overlaping.But, this program is proven and will show you how to get fit. You can find other people on the program and gain support from them if yo need it. There is nothing wrong with learning from other people. I don't remenber the name of the guy or his program,but I think it started out with something like Diet America. It was one of those infomertials where you would buy this guys program and you can lose wieght by eating smaller meals through out the day instead of eating three. Something that is included in the Body for life program for free. Do you see where I am comming from. You will always find that things over lap. You will not be able find much that don't when something is so simple and forward. >From: " Andy Doerksen " <neo-reality@...> >Reply-bodyforlifeegroups >bodyforlifeegroups >Subject: Re: + Leonard = CONFUSION >Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:33:19 -0000 > >Good point. But to be objective, my impression is that >Leonard is a recognized fitness expert. And, again to be objective, >lots of the free material at his sight is well-argued and seems to >make sense. Check it out for yourself (http://www.leonardfitness.com) > >Now that's not to disparage the BFL program at all - obviously I >wouldn't disparage it when I'm about to start it tomorrow. :-) I >just think it's good to get different points of view, and sometimes >overlap things. > >Andy > > > > > Does anybody know anything about Leonard? His website is > > > http://www.leonardfitness.com/, and there's an article on a book > > he's > > > written (ABDOMINAL SECRETS REVEALED) that contains the following > > > blurb: > > > > > > " Body for Life > > > > > > " Does Bill mislead or even rip off consumers? Are the > > > before and after product advertisement photos real or fake? Find > > out > > > interesting, yet shocking facts about Bill , plus the > > > downfalls and problems with the Body for Life program! Leonard > > > reveals what Bill doesn't want consumers to know. Save > > your > > > money! Throw your Excel spreadsheets away! The secrets are > > > revealed! " (http://www.absecrets.com/) > > > > > > Now for somebody like me who's about to start the BFL program >this > > > Monday, that's not a pleasant thing to read!! What are your > > opinions? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Andy > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Andy, No Bill is not a fake. Nor has he ever claimed to be the only one who can get a person into shape. What he has done is put all the technical fitness information into layman's form so that we all can understand what it is all about. If you ask me some of the so called " experts " just confuse us more when they try and tell us what should be done. What I really like about the BFL program is that it was easy to understand from A to Z.........never once did I wonder or feel confused about the information that was given to me. Yes, getting the information cost me a mere $15.99, but it was the BEST money I ever spent. Try the BFL program for yourself and then tell us all what you think about it and Bill . I myself LOVE all that BFL stands for. It has helped me in more ways than just losing weight. I have learned to LIVE again. Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Andy, Don't let rivalry between fitness experts put doubt in your decision. Bill once said that the only way to avoid scrutiny is to do nothing,be nothing (something to that effect). To tell you the truth,my stong belief in Body-For-Life isn't just about the program(which I think is wonderful),it's about the man behind the program who asks me to rise above adversity and become the best person I can be(not just physically,but in all aspects of life). If you haven't watched the video,Body of Work,you should. After watching that there was no way I could doubt the man behind it all. Cheryl C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 Even so, why should you or anyone else have to pay for the privilege of hearing him whine about someone else? > > I think the key there is that you have to PAY to find out these > > amazing " secrets " about Bill and BFL. Give me a break! > > > > Jarel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Doug, Thanks for your response, and I tend to agree. Just so you know, though . . . < The only way you will get abs that looked ripped is to get your body fat down. There is no spot reducing... > Leonard actually says the same thing. In a free website section titled " Abdominal Tips, " he has a Q & A format that includes the following (http://www.leonardfitness.com/abs.htm): " Question: How many situps should I do to tone my abs? " Leonard: None! The main thing to remember is that abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym! If anything, you want to do crunches as opposed to situps. Experts consider situps bad for the back. Also, there is nothing on the market that reduces fat around the midsection (with the exception of liposuction and some injectable steroids). " Fat loss from a certain area is known as 'spot reducing,' a concept formerly thought to be effective. Fat is actually burned all over the body during diet and exercise. For the record, there are no creams, fat burners, or herbal treatments which can do anything to help with abs. Don't waste your money! " Unfortunately I think Leonard picked the wrong title for his book ABDOMINAL SECRETS REVEALED. Some people here have construed that as favourable to " spot reducing, " but Leonard doesn't believe in that. Check out the rest of his site; he really does have a lot of good advice, it seems to me. < This guy is trying to sell a book and give you the secret to great abs. > Well, even though I'm favourable to BFL and am about to start on it myself (this morning!), we have to be objective and realize that Bill wants to sell books as well. And I don't fault him for that. But I think you can get an idea of the quality of info in Leonard's book by first perusing the information that's freely available at his site. Like I say, he's got a lot of good articles - so I'd be surprised if his book then turned out to be crap. Which is not to say I'd necessarily agree with all of his conclusions, whether in re. to BFL or anything else. < I have stayed the course for 12 weeks and lost 7 inches around the middle. > Hey, I can't argue with that - and that's why I'm going on the program too! :-) < Keep in mind the man is trying to take your money by getting you to buy a book. > But so is Bill. :-) < What better way to spark your interest than to use some cliff hanger about a very popular program and person to sell that book. > Fair point, but it's also known in the fitness world that no one program gets the best results for all individuals - yet it was the amazing transformation pictures in the BFL book that got me to buy it, even before I'd read more than a dozen words. What better way to attract people to buy the book, huh? :-) (But again, I'm not at all faulting Bill for trying to sell a book.) < My point is the program does work. If you are really over weight like I was you will not see that kind of transformation in the pictures in twelve weeks. > Fair point. I'm not counting on a 12-week transformation. But if I could get a 1-year transformation I'd be quite happy! < The key is consistancing. just keep pluging away. > I agree! < You will always find people cutting and bad mouthing things that work. > True, but maybe you're doing the same thing to Leonard. :-) < My advice.... If you want to get in shape and lose some fat...follow the program and stick with it. > Oh, I'm going to! I have no good reason not to at least give it an honest try. Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 > Andy I looked at this site, and I can tell you some of what he says > about Bill and The BFL program is totally incorrect. Why not give > the program 12 short weeks of your time and you judge for yourself. > " Taz " (do you prefer Taz?), thanks for your response. Might I ask what comments about BFL you're referring to? The only one I was aware of was in the blurb for his ABDOMINAL SECRETS book. Do you find some other statements elsewhere at the site? And yes, I am starting on the BFL program - today! :-) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Doug, thanks for your advice here. < You might remember that day when Dr. Pepper's stock dropped. > Sorry, I don't understand the connection there. < It all comes down to getting off you butt, exersising and eating right. Which is why you will always see things overlaping. . . . There is nothing wrong with learning from other people. > I was talking to a co-worker of mine who also works as a personal trainer, and he thought the 40-40-20 / protein-carb-fat ratio was a bit out of whack; he figured your protein percentage should be lower. For e.g., Dr. Hussman writes, " Since you'll be doing weight training, shoot for at least a gram of protein per pound of lean weight daily, regardless of your specific goal. That amount of intake is quite safe, " which would put me at something like 145g of protein a day or thereabouts. My friend thought that was too high and that he only has about 70g a day - and he's in really good shape. I didn't have a good reason to argue with him. < I don't remenber the name of the guy or his program, but I think it started out with something like Diet America. It was one of those infomercials where you would buy this guy's program and you can lose wieght by eating smaller meals through out the day instead of eating three. > I think you mean Larry North's SLIMDOWN FOR LIFE. I have that book too. :-) Nutritionally he's pretty much the same as Bill, though of course Bill gets pretty intense about weight-training. Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 To be fair, I think there's way more to his book than that. :-) > > > I think the key there is that you have to PAY to find out these > > > amazing " secrets " about Bill and BFL. Give me a break! > > > > > > Jarel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Wow, quite the testimony there. I *am* going on the BFL program, starting today. And I'll give your words a little extra weight (no pun intended) just because my girlfriend's name is also Carolyn. :-) Andy > Andy, > > No Bill is not a fake. Nor has he ever claimed to be the only one who > can get a person into shape. What he has done is put all the technical > fitness information into layman's form so that we all can understand what it > is all about. If you ask me some of the so called " experts " just confuse us > more when they try and tell us what should be done. > > What I really like about the BFL program is that it was easy to > understand from A to Z.........never once did I wonder or feel confused about > the information that was given to me. Yes, getting the information cost me a > mere $15.99, but it was the BEST money I ever spent. > > Try the BFL program for yourself and then tell us all what you think > about it and Bill . I myself LOVE all that BFL stands for. It has > helped me in more ways than just losing weight. I have learned to LIVE again. > > > Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Andy wrote: > wants to sell books as well. And I don't fault him for that. Are you aware that all proceeds from the book go to the Make a Wish foundation? The money generated from sales of the book do not line his pockets but grant the wishes of children with life-threatening illnesses. Glenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Glenda, thanks for that info; I was NOT aware of that, actually. Not that I had anything against Bill whatsoever! :-) Andy > > wants to sell books as well. And I don't fault him for that. > > Are you aware that all proceeds from the book go to the Make a Wish > foundation? The money generated from sales of the book do not line his > pockets but grant the wishes of children with life-threatening illnesses. > > Glenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Andy, Along those same lines - Bill is paid $180,000 from EAS annually and he donates every penny of that salary to Make-A-Wish, also. In addition, his Body of Work video was free to anyone who wanted it with the request that if it helped you in any way, please send $15.00 directly to Make A Wish. He seems to genuinely have a huge heart. Sara Re: + Leonard = CONFUSION >Glenda, thanks for that info; I was NOT aware of that, actually. Not >that I had anything against Bill whatsoever! :-) > >Andy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 In a message dated 1/22/01 Glenda writes: PS: I've lost 63 lbs of fat Geez Gelenda, well done! 63 pounds of fat! What was your starting bf % and what are your current goals? You are going great! Keep it up! All the Best, LL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 > < The only way you will get abs that looked ripped is to get your > body fat down. There is no spot reducing... > > > Leonard actually says the same thing. Which raises the question... what does he need to write a book for? Yes, the guy may know what he's talking about, but his whole attitude toward Bill and BFL is unprofessional and unwarranted. Why would anyone want to listen to stuff like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Waste of time listening to nay-sayers. How can anyone spend time shooting down what is good for you. A lowfat diet spread out over the day with a balance of protein and carbs meets American Medical association and American Diabetic Association guidelines. Six days of exercise is good for just about anybody. In addition you get a lot of very useful information about nutrition and exercise and a way to bring about personal change. There are a million excuses not to act. A report such as this to discredit the program is just another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 < As a nurse, I thought the protein to carb ratio was not right ( old school of thought.....dieticians do NOT always know what the heck they are talking about). . . . 40-40-20 is an acceptable combination. 70g of protein seems awfully low. The acceptable amount of protein intake is 1g per pound of lean body weight. > Okay, that seems sensible to me, so don't take the following as if I were disparaging your opinion. However, my friend - a very-in-shape personal trainer - says 145g of protein per day is too high, and you say it's acceptable (if I apply your principle to my own lean weight). Whom do I believe . . . ? > I'm still trying to lose fat, but I don't sacrifice protein intake. What happens to excess protein that is more than the body needs for muscle-building? I've heard either that it gets expelled as waste, OR that it gets stored as fat! Which is it? < PS: the personal trainer I worked out with does not like the BFL program but he can't argue that I've lost 63 lbs of fat on a program that he doesn't believe in. > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? Thanks, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 > > < The only way you will get abs that looked ripped is to get your > > body fat down. There is no spot reducing... > > > > > Leonard actually says the same thing. > > Which raises the question... what does he need to write a book for? Because as I've pointed out (*smile*) he has way, way more to say about dieting and exercise than merely his little blurb on BFL. I only mentioned that blurb because, of course, it's about something that those of us here are into! :-) < Yes, the guy may know what he's talking about, but his whole attitude toward Bill and BFL is unprofessional and unwarranted. > That may well be the case, although I got an email from his staff today that actually spoke positively of the BFL. Hmm . . . speaking out of both sides of his mouth . . . ? < Why would anyone want to listen to stuff like that? > Like I said, it was just one little blurb. Maybe it would be more fair to look at his arguments before writing him off, just as one would have to look at Bill's arguments before writing *him* off, as well. I only posted the blurb because I wondered if anyone here was familiar with Leonard's writing. Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Andy Doerksen [neo-reality@...] wrote: > > I'm still trying to lose fat, but I don't sacrifice protein intake. > > What happens to excess protein that is more than the body needs for > muscle-building? I've heard either that it gets expelled as waste, OR > that it gets stored as fat! Which is it? glucacon will convert excess protein to blood sugar and if not used, stored as fat like all excess blood sugar. insulin loads bcaa's into muscles, GH loads the rest of the proteins. Deus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 Re: + Leonard = CONFUSION > Okay, that seems sensible to me, so don't take the following as if I > were disparaging your opinion. However, my friend - a very-in-shape > personal trainer - says 145g of protein per day is too high, and you > say it's acceptable (if I apply your principle to my own lean weight). > Whom do I believe . . . ? > Do a little research and make your own decision on what medical evidence you find. > > I'm still trying to lose fat, but I don't sacrifice protein intake. > > What happens to excess protein that is more than the body needs for > muscle-building? I've heard either that it gets expelled as waste, OR > that it gets stored as fat! Which is it? Both. I've read that it depends upon your level of activity. If you are sedentary, everything you eat will turn to fat. > > < PS: the personal trainer I worked out with does not like the BFL > program but he can't argue that I've lost 63 lbs of fat on a program > that he doesn't believe in. > > > Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? Jealousy. A program has been developed that has helped thousands of people and some personal trainers just can't get over their egotistical mind that something other than their program works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 In a message dated 1/23/01 12:03:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, mdscully@... writes: Why is it that personal trainers tend not to like BFL, I wonder...? Maybe because so many B4Lers are getting great results WITHOUT using a personal trainer? Maybe because BFL simplified what to a lot of people was the "science" of nutrition and bodybuilding? Leaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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