Re: O.T....still potty training almost 10y.o. need help

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny- It seems you have tried everything. I know that what you are going through is very hard, the only suggestion I have is what I did with my boy, I took everything off and let him be around the house with only a long t-shirt and take him every so often to the bathroom to see if he wants to go, see if by any chance that helps. Orianapenny <mcksmom@...> wrote: I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the

behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it. He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public. This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite.

Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet. Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants. I know he understands what he's suppose to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom. I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding. I think he has developed such a bad habit that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour. I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes. I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic. I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so

depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead. PLEASE HELP ME! Thanks Penny

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny- It seems you have tried everything. I know that what you are going through is very hard, the only suggestion I have is what I did with my boy, I took everything off and let him be around the house with only a long t-shirt and take him every so often to the bathroom to see if he wants to go, see if by any chance that helps. Orianapenny <mcksmom@...> wrote: I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the

behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it. He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public. This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite.

Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet. Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants. I know he understands what he's suppose to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom. I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding. I think he has developed such a bad habit that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour. I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes. I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic. I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so

depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead. PLEASE HELP ME! Thanks Penny

[Guest guest]

I don't know how your son relates to videos, but my son loved the video called "It's Potty Time". They have songs about going to the potty and pooping and it's not offensive or gross or anything like that.

Re: O.T....still potty training almost 10y.o. need help

Hi Penny-

It seems you have tried everything. I know that what you are going through is very hard, the only suggestion I have is what I did with my boy, I took everything off and let him be around the house with only a long t-shirt and take him every so often to the bathroom to see if he wants to go, see if by any chance that helps.

Orianapenny <mcksmom@...> wrote:

I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it.

He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public. This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet. Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants. I know he understands what he's suppose to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom.

I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding. I think he has developed such a bad habit that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour. I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes. I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic. I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead.

PLEASE HELP ME!

Thanks

Penny

[Guest guest]

Penny this is hard to explain via post as well as get a full understanding in what you have already done. But I will try to offer a few suggestions based on what you had written. Fist of all I totally understand your frustration in trying to master a task such as the potty that should be at least age appropriate .It seems you have applied allot of good things that should have brought success with this by now. By no means am I trying to correct you, but rather help you dial in to finding the right part gaining better successes.

Again please take my observation as an out side view and try not to take it personal if I may point out an area that may need some correction. Btw I am not a professional but I do enjoy helping in areas of behavior modification with functional assessments.

I know you have had professionals try to help you and I don't know the methodology they were trained in, but I was going to suggest a verbal, behavior annalist who was trained in a refined ABA.

(That would be VB/ABA). There is a potty training protocol, but I do not have the documentation. Primarily these are structured mostly for the beginner learner and may not apply to you child.

If you are not familiar with VB/ABA here is a short training manual that has good info in sorry I do not have the potty training protocol documents, but if you recall the methodology you can pick up a lot of good stuff here too.

http://www.mariposaschool.org/programs/TrainingManual.pdf

One thing I will say is if you can get at the root of the behavior you can develop an appropriate protocol. Also you need to take into consideration that former methods may not have been appropriate OR you may have reinforced this behavior in some other way. I know I may be off here but it may be a possibility of a maturity level but I think you would know this the most over any professional and I respect your observation in knowing if your child is ready or not. The big red flags is not feeling soiled or it not bothering the child on bit. But again if some how this was negatively reinforced by prior methods, the problem may still exist for another behavior function. Key here would be to find out what that might be. Or simply repeat the task a few times positively untill the child prefers the outcome to the previous learned behavior.

Hope that makes sense?

Any how the first thing I want to say is an example related to the teaching methodology. It reminds me of a professor I had college when I had to take algebra 2 for the second time. Get it algebra 2 twice. ?

In fact the entire class was there because they either failed algebra 2 or did have an expectable grade. This professor had a whole new teaching strategy based on the fact that every one did not get it the first time, and taught entirely based on a different way of learning. Now the reason I bring this up is you may need to look at what you have done that gained you success and also what had no success at all. I believe these are all the clues for developing a new protocol for your son.

Penny I know this is tough and you may not have anyone else to help from the outside, but I believe you have all the right skills to do this. Because you know your child better than any else. Of course it will take commitment, observation, lots of praise and patience. Now again this is my observation to point a few things, I think you already have the answers within but just may need someone to highlight them, what you may need to look at change/ moodily.

HTH

Kenny V

****Reponses below

I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it.

**** Ok it didn't work the first attempts, but you need to remember what was effective, what IS effective, and what may have been negatively reinforced.

He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public.

*******See here is a pattern of leaned behavior, the goal is to repeat proper behavior, isolate what is the motive behind the problem behavior. And teach replacement behavior.

I know it is hard to accept but all behaviors are learned.

I do not know why this is the case, but can suspect that procedure / protocol needs to be constant at home as well as in the public.

One suggestion on developing the new protocol may be to master this in the public first then transition it in the home.

This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet.

*****Ok remember and learn from the past now start all over again. The problem here is your son already went through all of this stuff, perhaps it wasn't a good experience so you may need to gain his trust again. I cant stress more than anything else 3 key things. Poopie in the Potty must be positively reinforced. Non abrasive. And you have to keep the value of the reinforcer. Now that may be a problem, they avoid the task because the value of the reinforcer is no longer strong. Task avoidance is very common too. But you have to use your creativity and find strong reinforcers. But you still have to follow through and keep the demand.

Very easy to say very hard to do…When I fist learned the value of a reinforcer, I killed every one with my kiddo. So he had no motive to request them. And also my son mostly used task avoidance as soon as demands where put. It was a rough start but if you are paired and gain trust eventually they will comply.

Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants.

***** All pieces to the puzzle …see above

I know he understands what he's supposed to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom.

I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding.

****** Ding ding ding******* He can and he will, you just need keep the motivation long enough to learn this task as positive behavior. Some how long enough to keep catching him doing it right and reinforce the heck out of it. Celebrate untill the saints come marching home. However if he is mature enough and knows what is going on ...watch out for his motivation in controlling you or the situation. Also watch that you don't develop a bad behavior in the process, Always ask your self

"what is this teaching?"

Try not to have potty become a bad experience.

I think he has developed such a bad habits that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour.

*******Probably true, but their must be a motivation behind it as well.

I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes.

I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic.

I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead.

PLEASE HELP ME!

Thanks

Penny

Hope I been Helpful

Your doing all the right stuff, he will get it. Hurray for mommy And praise Kenzie

Kenny V

[Guest guest]

Penny this is hard to explain via post as well as get a full understanding in what you have already done. But I will try to offer a few suggestions based on what you had written. Fist of all I totally understand your frustration in trying to master a task such as the potty that should be at least age appropriate .It seems you have applied allot of good things that should have brought success with this by now. By no means am I trying to correct you, but rather help you dial in to finding the right part gaining better successes.

Again please take my observation as an out side view and try not to take it personal if I may point out an area that may need some correction. Btw I am not a professional but I do enjoy helping in areas of behavior modification with functional assessments.

I know you have had professionals try to help you and I don't know the methodology they were trained in, but I was going to suggest a verbal, behavior annalist who was trained in a refined ABA.

(That would be VB/ABA). There is a potty training protocol, but I do not have the documentation. Primarily these are structured mostly for the beginner learner and may not apply to you child.

If you are not familiar with VB/ABA here is a short training manual that has good info in sorry I do not have the potty training protocol documents, but if you recall the methodology you can pick up a lot of good stuff here too.

http://www.mariposaschool.org/programs/TrainingManual.pdf

One thing I will say is if you can get at the root of the behavior you can develop an appropriate protocol. Also you need to take into consideration that former methods may not have been appropriate OR you may have reinforced this behavior in some other way. I know I may be off here but it may be a possibility of a maturity level but I think you would know this the most over any professional and I respect your observation in knowing if your child is ready or not. The big red flags is not feeling soiled or it not bothering the child on bit. But again if some how this was negatively reinforced by prior methods, the problem may still exist for another behavior function. Key here would be to find out what that might be. Or simply repeat the task a few times positively untill the child prefers the outcome to the previous learned behavior.

Hope that makes sense?

Any how the first thing I want to say is an example related to the teaching methodology. It reminds me of a professor I had college when I had to take algebra 2 for the second time. Get it algebra 2 twice. ?

In fact the entire class was there because they either failed algebra 2 or did have an expectable grade. This professor had a whole new teaching strategy based on the fact that every one did not get it the first time, and taught entirely based on a different way of learning. Now the reason I bring this up is you may need to look at what you have done that gained you success and also what had no success at all. I believe these are all the clues for developing a new protocol for your son.

Penny I know this is tough and you may not have anyone else to help from the outside, but I believe you have all the right skills to do this. Because you know your child better than any else. Of course it will take commitment, observation, lots of praise and patience. Now again this is my observation to point a few things, I think you already have the answers within but just may need someone to highlight them, what you may need to look at change/ moodily.

HTH

Kenny V

****Reponses below

I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it.

**** Ok it didn't work the first attempts, but you need to remember what was effective, what IS effective, and what may have been negatively reinforced.

He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public.

*******See here is a pattern of leaned behavior, the goal is to repeat proper behavior, isolate what is the motive behind the problem behavior. And teach replacement behavior.

I know it is hard to accept but all behaviors are learned.

I do not know why this is the case, but can suspect that procedure / protocol needs to be constant at home as well as in the public.

One suggestion on developing the new protocol may be to master this in the public first then transition it in the home.

This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet.

*****Ok remember and learn from the past now start all over again. The problem here is your son already went through all of this stuff, perhaps it wasn't a good experience so you may need to gain his trust again. I cant stress more than anything else 3 key things. Poopie in the Potty must be positively reinforced. Non abrasive. And you have to keep the value of the reinforcer. Now that may be a problem, they avoid the task because the value of the reinforcer is no longer strong. Task avoidance is very common too. But you have to use your creativity and find strong reinforcers. But you still have to follow through and keep the demand.

Very easy to say very hard to do…When I fist learned the value of a reinforcer, I killed every one with my kiddo. So he had no motive to request them. And also my son mostly used task avoidance as soon as demands where put. It was a rough start but if you are paired and gain trust eventually they will comply.

Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants.

***** All pieces to the puzzle …see above

I know he understands what he's supposed to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom.

I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding.

****** Ding ding ding******* He can and he will, you just need keep the motivation long enough to learn this task as positive behavior. Some how long enough to keep catching him doing it right and reinforce the heck out of it. Celebrate untill the saints come marching home. However if he is mature enough and knows what is going on ...watch out for his motivation in controlling you or the situation. Also watch that you don't develop a bad behavior in the process, Always ask your self

"what is this teaching?"

Try not to have potty become a bad experience.

I think he has developed such a bad habits that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour.

*******Probably true, but their must be a motivation behind it as well.

I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes.

I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic.

I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead.

PLEASE HELP ME!

Thanks

Penny

Hope I been Helpful

Your doing all the right stuff, he will get it. Hurray for mommy And praise Kenzie

Kenny V

[Guest guest]

Okay, you’ve totally described my

6year old son. He actually has (in the past) only pooped on the potty

when we were outside of the house at a function or something because he did NOT

want to have an accident. But at home he would ALWAYS go in his

pants. I went through so MANY pairs of undies and I got really tired of

cleaning him up. So 1st I went back to pull ups just for

poop. He has been urine trained for a long time, but I would just bring

him, now he is actually asking to go. I made him start asking me for a

pull up to poop. Every time he had an accident in his pants I would bring

him into the bathroom and show him the pull ups and say just ask for a pull

up. Finally that worked. I think it’s because his stool has

been such an issue for so long, a painful process for him. Once gut was

better and stools more formed I knew I needed to work on it again.

Valtrex is really helping this issue. He now says, “I poop”,

we go into the bathroom and he has to at least try on the potty for a few

minutes and then I don’t push but I make him ask for the pull up.

In the last few weeks he has started practicing on his own. He has

actually gone by himself 2x on the potty but finished in a pull up. Wiping

is another project. My only reward is huge praise followed by “and

next time you’ll be able to finish on the potty, good job”.

We did years of all different kinds of rewards. They muddy the experience

and were totally ineffective. Hopefully as we continue with the valtrex,

the rest of the potty training picture will be completed. He’s come

such a long way.

-

PS The only thing my ABA therapist was able to do was help him to

learn to pee standing up by singing the ABC’s. She didn’t use

any of the tracking, timing techniques or pictures. She just stood him

there and gave him the controls. I know with my son he needs to have a

certain amount of his own control in order to progress.

I

write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is

still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done

all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in

the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet

stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed

schedules...everything, you name it.

He

always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely

rare that he had an accident in public.

*******See here is a pattern of leaned behavior, the goal is

to repeat proper behavior, isolate what is the motive behind the problem

behavior. And teach replacement behavior.

I know it is hard to accept but all behaviors are learned.

I do not know why this is the case, but can suspect that

procedure / protocol needs to be constant at home as well as in the public.

One suggestion on developing the new protocol may be to

master this in the public first then transition it in the home.

This

is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all

disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two

weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to

bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened

the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the

toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his

favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she

was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We

reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in

the toilet.

*****Ok remember and learn from the past now start all over

again. The problem here is your son already went through all of this stuff, perhaps

it wasn't a good experience so you may need to gain his trust again. I cant

stress more than anything else 3 key things. Poopie in the Potty must be

positively reinforced. Non abrasive. And you have to keep the value of the

reinforcer. Now that may be a problem, they avoid the task because the value of

the reinforcer is no longer strong. Task avoidance is very common too. But you

have to use your creativity and find strong reinforcers. But you still have to

follow through and keep the demand.

Very easy to say very hard to do…When I fist learned

the value of a reinforcer, I killed every one with my kiddo. So he had no

motive to request them. And also my son mostly used task avoidance as soon as

demands where put. It was a rough start but if you are paired and gain trust

eventually they will comply.

Now

he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He

doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he

could talk he would just say " screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll

just go in my pants " . He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants.

***** All pieces to the puzzle …see above

I

know he understands what he's supposed to do. If he really wants something I'll

tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to

get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to

poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom.

I

don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding.

****** Ding ding ding******* He can and he will, you just

need keep the motivation long enough to learn this task as positive behavior.

Some how long enough to keep catching him doing it right and reinforce the heck

out of it. Celebrate untill the saints come marching home. However if he is

mature enough and knows what is going on ...watch out for his motivation in

controlling you or the situation. Also watch that you don't develop a bad

behavior in the process, Always ask your self

" what is this teaching? "

Try not to have potty become a bad experience.

I

think he has developed such a bad habits that it's mostly behavioral and he has

no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when

he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty

1-2 times per hour.

*******Probably true, but their must be a motivation behind

it as well.

I

reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the

pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes.

I

don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're

not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and

his pattern will be even more erratic.

I

can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We

own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy

from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies

here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead.

PLEASE

HELP ME!

Thanks

Penny

Hope I been Helpful

Your doing all the right stuff, he will get it. Hurray for

mommy And praise Kenzie

Kenny V

[Guest guest]

Okay, you’ve totally described my

6year old son. He actually has (in the past) only pooped on the potty

when we were outside of the house at a function or something because he did NOT

want to have an accident. But at home he would ALWAYS go in his

pants. I went through so MANY pairs of undies and I got really tired of

cleaning him up. So 1st I went back to pull ups just for

poop. He has been urine trained for a long time, but I would just bring

him, now he is actually asking to go. I made him start asking me for a

pull up to poop. Every time he had an accident in his pants I would bring

him into the bathroom and show him the pull ups and say just ask for a pull

up. Finally that worked. I think it’s because his stool has

been such an issue for so long, a painful process for him. Once gut was

better and stools more formed I knew I needed to work on it again.

Valtrex is really helping this issue. He now says, “I poop”,

we go into the bathroom and he has to at least try on the potty for a few

minutes and then I don’t push but I make him ask for the pull up.

In the last few weeks he has started practicing on his own. He has

actually gone by himself 2x on the potty but finished in a pull up. Wiping

is another project. My only reward is huge praise followed by “and

next time you’ll be able to finish on the potty, good job”.

We did years of all different kinds of rewards. They muddy the experience

and were totally ineffective. Hopefully as we continue with the valtrex,

the rest of the potty training picture will be completed. He’s come

such a long way.

-

PS The only thing my ABA therapist was able to do was help him to

learn to pee standing up by singing the ABC’s. She didn’t use

any of the tracking, timing techniques or pictures. She just stood him

there and gave him the controls. I know with my son he needs to have a

certain amount of his own control in order to progress.

I

write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is

still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done

all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in

the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet

stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed

schedules...everything, you name it.

He

always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely

rare that he had an accident in public.

*******See here is a pattern of leaned behavior, the goal is

to repeat proper behavior, isolate what is the motive behind the problem

behavior. And teach replacement behavior.

I know it is hard to accept but all behaviors are learned.

I do not know why this is the case, but can suspect that

procedure / protocol needs to be constant at home as well as in the public.

One suggestion on developing the new protocol may be to

master this in the public first then transition it in the home.

This

is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all

disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two

weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to

bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened

the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the

toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his

favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she

was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We

reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in

the toilet.

*****Ok remember and learn from the past now start all over

again. The problem here is your son already went through all of this stuff, perhaps

it wasn't a good experience so you may need to gain his trust again. I cant

stress more than anything else 3 key things. Poopie in the Potty must be

positively reinforced. Non abrasive. And you have to keep the value of the

reinforcer. Now that may be a problem, they avoid the task because the value of

the reinforcer is no longer strong. Task avoidance is very common too. But you

have to use your creativity and find strong reinforcers. But you still have to

follow through and keep the demand.

Very easy to say very hard to do…When I fist learned

the value of a reinforcer, I killed every one with my kiddo. So he had no

motive to request them. And also my son mostly used task avoidance as soon as

demands where put. It was a rough start but if you are paired and gain trust

eventually they will comply.

Now

he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive training. He

doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he

could talk he would just say " screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll

just go in my pants " . He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants.

***** All pieces to the puzzle …see above

I

know he understands what he's supposed to do. If he really wants something I'll

tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to

get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to

poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom.

I

don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding.

****** Ding ding ding******* He can and he will, you just

need keep the motivation long enough to learn this task as positive behavior.

Some how long enough to keep catching him doing it right and reinforce the heck

out of it. Celebrate untill the saints come marching home. However if he is

mature enough and knows what is going on ...watch out for his motivation in

controlling you or the situation. Also watch that you don't develop a bad

behavior in the process, Always ask your self

" what is this teaching? "

Try not to have potty become a bad experience.

I

think he has developed such a bad habits that it's mostly behavioral and he has

no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when

he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his pants or take him to to potty

1-2 times per hour.

*******Probably true, but their must be a motivation behind

it as well.

I

reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the

pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes.

I

don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're

not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and

his pattern will be even more erratic.

I

can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We

own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy

from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies

here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead.

PLEASE

HELP ME!

Thanks

Penny

Hope I been Helpful

Your doing all the right stuff, he will get it. Hurray for

mommy And praise Kenzie

Kenny V

[Guest guest]

My son was younger but our behaviorist could not get him trained.

He was pee trained, but not potty. They worked on him for two

months with little to no progress.

About a week after the healing-regression of Valtrex ended and he

was potty trained. I have video of the behavioralist describing how

Ethan's body awareness changed " seemingly overnight. "

mentioned something similar and others have said the same

based on antiviral therapy. Maybe the central nervous system is

involved or increased blood flow which may also explain the sudden

body awareness.

Have you tried Valtrex?

- Stan

>

> Okay, you've totally described my 6year old son. He actually has

(in the

> past) only pooped on the potty when we were outside of the house

at a

> function or something because he did NOT want to have an

accident. But at

> home he would ALWAYS go in his pants. I went through so MANY

pairs of

> undies and I got really tired of cleaning him up. So 1st I went

back to

> pull ups just for poop. He has been urine trained for a long

time, but I

> would just bring him, now he is actually asking to go. I made him

start

> asking me for a pull up to poop. Every time he had an accident in

his pants

> I would bring him into the bathroom and show him the pull ups and

say just

> ask for a pull up. Finally that worked. I think it's because his

stool has

> been such an issue for so long, a painful process for him. Once

gut was

> better and stools more formed I knew I needed to work on it

again. Valtrex

> is really helping this issue. He now says, " I poop " , we go into

the

> bathroom and he has to at least try on the potty for a few minutes

and then

> I don't push but I make him ask for the pull up. In the last few

weeks he

> has started practicing on his own. He has actually gone by

himself 2x on

> the potty but finished in a pull up. Wiping is another project.

My only

> reward is huge praise followed by " and next time you'll be able to

finish on

> the potty, good job " . We did years of all different kinds of

rewards. They

> muddy the experience and were totally ineffective. Hopefully as

we continue

> with the valtrex, the rest of the potty training picture will be

completed.

> He's come such a long way.

>

> -

>

> PS The only thing my ABA therapist was able to do was help him to

learn to

> pee standing up by singing the ABC's. She didn't use any of the

tracking,

> timing techniques or pictures. She just stood him there and gave

him the

> controls. I know with my son he needs to have a certain amount of

his own

> control in order to progress.

>

>

>

> I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten

in July and

> is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was

3.5 I have

> done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three

day

> weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice,

clean

> pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual

schedules, timed

> schedules...everything, you name it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home.

It was

> extremely rare that he had an accident in public.

>

> *******See here is a pattern of leaned behavior, the goal is to

repeat

> proper behavior, isolate what is the motive behind the problem

behavior. And

> teach replacement behavior.

>

> I know it is hard to accept but all behaviors are learned.

>

> I do not know why this is the case, but can suspect that

procedure /

> protocol needs to be constant at home as well as in the public.

>

> One suggestion on developing the new protocol may be to master

this in the

> public first then transition it in the home.

>

>

>

> This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a

ton of kids

> all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my

babysitter.

> For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from

school until

> he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten

minutes.

> That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom.

When he

> would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and

bounce on

> the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only

pooped in the

> toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of

novel

> reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing

in the

> toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet.

>

> *****Ok remember and learn from the past now start all over again.

The

> problem here is your son already went through all of this stuff,

perhaps it

> wasn't a good experience so you may need to gain his trust again.

I cant

> stress more than anything else 3 key things. Poopie in the Potty

must be

> positively reinforced. Non abrasive. And you have to keep the

value of the

> reinforcer. Now that may be a problem, they avoid the task because

the value

> of the reinforcer is no longer strong. Task avoidance is very

common too.

> But you have to use your creativity and find strong reinforcers.

But you

> still have to follow through and keep the demand.

>

> Very easy to say very hard to do.When I fist learned the value of a

> reinforcer, I killed every one with my kiddo. So he had no motive

to request

> them. And also my son mostly used task avoidance as soon as

demands where

> put. It was a rough start but if you are paired and gain trust

eventually

> they will comply.

>

>

>

> Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive

training.

> He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him.

I swear if

> he could talk he would just say " screw it, I don't want it that

bad, I'll

> just go in my pants " . He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy

pants.

>

> ***** All pieces to the puzzle .see above

>

> I know he understands what he's supposed to do. If he really wants

something

> I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a

little tiny

> poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him

he's not

> suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the

bathroom.

>

> I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding.

>

> ****** Ding ding ding******* He can and he will, you just need

keep the

> motivation long enough to learn this task as positive behavior.

Some how

> long enough to keep catching him doing it right and reinforce the

heck out

> of it. Celebrate untill the saints come marching home. However if

he is

> mature enough and knows what is going on ...watch out for his

motivation in

> controlling you or the situation. Also watch that you don't

develop a bad

> behavior in the process, Always ask your self

>

> " what is this teaching? "

>

> Try not to have potty become a bad experience.

>

> I think he has developed such a bad habits that it's mostly

behavioral and

> he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been

keeping

> data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his

pants or take

> him to to potty 1-2 times per hour.

>

> *******Probably true, but their must be a motivation behind it as

well.

>

>

>

> I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help

me clean

> the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes.

>

> I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According

to Fox

> you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of

school in a

> week and his pattern will be even more erratic.

>

> I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in

the summer.

> We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will

be crazy

> busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are

simply no

> bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and

we're no

> further ahead.

>

> PLEASE HELP ME!

>

> Thanks

>

> Penny

>

>

>

> Hope I been Helpful

>

> Your doing all the right stuff, he will get it. Hurray for mommy

And praise

> Kenzie

>

> Kenny V

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son was younger but our behaviorist could not get him trained.

He was pee trained, but not potty. They worked on him for two

months with little to no progress.

About a week after the healing-regression of Valtrex ended and he

was potty trained. I have video of the behavioralist describing how

Ethan's body awareness changed " seemingly overnight. "

mentioned something similar and others have said the same

based on antiviral therapy. Maybe the central nervous system is

involved or increased blood flow which may also explain the sudden

body awareness.

Have you tried Valtrex?

- Stan

>

> Okay, you've totally described my 6year old son. He actually has

(in the

> past) only pooped on the potty when we were outside of the house

at a

> function or something because he did NOT want to have an

accident. But at

> home he would ALWAYS go in his pants. I went through so MANY

pairs of

> undies and I got really tired of cleaning him up. So 1st I went

back to

> pull ups just for poop. He has been urine trained for a long

time, but I

> would just bring him, now he is actually asking to go. I made him

start

> asking me for a pull up to poop. Every time he had an accident in

his pants

> I would bring him into the bathroom and show him the pull ups and

say just

> ask for a pull up. Finally that worked. I think it's because his

stool has

> been such an issue for so long, a painful process for him. Once

gut was

> better and stools more formed I knew I needed to work on it

again. Valtrex

> is really helping this issue. He now says, " I poop " , we go into

the

> bathroom and he has to at least try on the potty for a few minutes

and then

> I don't push but I make him ask for the pull up. In the last few

weeks he

> has started practicing on his own. He has actually gone by

himself 2x on

> the potty but finished in a pull up. Wiping is another project.

My only

> reward is huge praise followed by " and next time you'll be able to

finish on

> the potty, good job " . We did years of all different kinds of

rewards. They

> muddy the experience and were totally ineffective. Hopefully as

we continue

> with the valtrex, the rest of the potty training picture will be

completed.

> He's come such a long way.

>

> -

>

> PS The only thing my ABA therapist was able to do was help him to

learn to

> pee standing up by singing the ABC's. She didn't use any of the

tracking,

> timing techniques or pictures. She just stood him there and gave

him the

> controls. I know with my son he needs to have a certain amount of

his own

> control in order to progress.

>

>

>

> I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten

in July and

> is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was

3.5 I have

> done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three

day

> weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice,

clean

> pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual

schedules, timed

> schedules...everything, you name it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> He always use to hold his poop and only go in his pants at home.

It was

> extremely rare that he had an accident in public.

>

> *******See here is a pattern of leaned behavior, the goal is to

repeat

> proper behavior, isolate what is the motive behind the problem

behavior. And

> teach replacement behavior.

>

> I know it is hard to accept but all behaviors are learned.

>

> I do not know why this is the case, but can suspect that

procedure /

> protocol needs to be constant at home as well as in the public.

>

> One suggestion on developing the new protocol may be to master

this in the

> public first then transition it in the home.

>

>

>

> This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a

ton of kids

> all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my

babysitter.

> For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from

school until

> he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten

minutes.

> That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom.

When he

> would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and

bounce on

> the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only

pooped in the

> toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of

novel

> reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing

in the

> toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet.

>

> *****Ok remember and learn from the past now start all over again.

The

> problem here is your son already went through all of this stuff,

perhaps it

> wasn't a good experience so you may need to gain his trust again.

I cant

> stress more than anything else 3 key things. Poopie in the Potty

must be

> positively reinforced. Non abrasive. And you have to keep the

value of the

> reinforcer. Now that may be a problem, they avoid the task because

the value

> of the reinforcer is no longer strong. Task avoidance is very

common too.

> But you have to use your creativity and find strong reinforcers.

But you

> still have to follow through and keep the demand.

>

> Very easy to say very hard to do.When I fist learned the value of a

> reinforcer, I killed every one with my kiddo. So he had no motive

to request

> them. And also my son mostly used task avoidance as soon as

demands where

> put. It was a rough start but if you are paired and gain trust

eventually

> they will comply.

>

>

>

> Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive

training.

> He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him.

I swear if

> he could talk he would just say " screw it, I don't want it that

bad, I'll

> just go in my pants " . He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy

pants.

>

> ***** All pieces to the puzzle .see above

>

> I know he understands what he's supposed to do. If he really wants

something

> I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a

little tiny

> poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him

he's not

> suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the

bathroom.

>

> I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding.

>

> ****** Ding ding ding******* He can and he will, you just need

keep the

> motivation long enough to learn this task as positive behavior.

Some how

> long enough to keep catching him doing it right and reinforce the

heck out

> of it. Celebrate untill the saints come marching home. However if

he is

> mature enough and knows what is going on ...watch out for his

motivation in

> controlling you or the situation. Also watch that you don't

develop a bad

> behavior in the process, Always ask your self

>

> " what is this teaching? "

>

> Try not to have potty become a bad experience.

>

> I think he has developed such a bad habits that it's mostly

behavioral and

> he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been

keeping

> data on when he eats and poops. I set the timer and check his

pants or take

> him to to potty 1-2 times per hour.

>

> *******Probably true, but their must be a motivation behind it as

well.

>

>

>

> I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help

me clean

> the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes.

>

> I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According

to Fox

> you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of

school in a

> week and his pattern will be even more erratic.

>

> I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in

the summer.

> We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will

be crazy

> busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are

simply no

> bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and

we're no

> further ahead.

>

> PLEASE HELP ME!

>

> Thanks

>

> Penny

>

>

>

> Hope I been Helpful

>

> Your doing all the right stuff, he will get it. Hurray for mommy

And praise

> Kenzie

>

> Kenny V

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What kind of biomedical interventions have you tried?penny <mcksmom@...> wrote: I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it. He always use to hold his

poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public. This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet. Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive

training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants. I know he understands what he's suppose to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom. I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding. I think he has developed such a bad habit that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the

timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour. I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes. I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic. I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead. PLEASE HELP ME! Thanks Penny __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

What kind of biomedical interventions have you tried?penny <mcksmom@...> wrote: I write in about this about every six months. Kenzie will be ten in July and is still not poop trained. Over the years beginning when he was 3.5 I have done all the behavioral potty training rituals. I have done three day weekends in the bathroom with all the goodies, positive practice, clean pants check, wet stops, suppositories, cold showers, visual schedules, timed schedules...everything, you name it. He always use to hold his

poop and only go in his pants at home. It was extremely rare that he had an accident in public. This is what I've done recently. I had a professional (trained a ton of kids all disabilities and even a 23 year old) come in and train my babysitter. For two weeks she was here everyday when Kenzie came home from school until he went to bed. First they worked on sitting on the toilet for ten minutes. That happened the first night. They stayed right by the bathroom. When he would poop in the toilet he would get to be done for the night and bounce on the tramp...his favorite. Never did he self initiate. He only pooped in the toilet because she was there all the time. We had a variety of novel reinforcers food and toys. We reinforced for clean pants, peeing in the toilet and the biggie for pooping in the toilet. Now he seems to have regressed to worse than before the intensive

training. He doesn't ask to bounce any more. Nothing is reinforcing to him. I swear if he could talk he would just say "screw it, I don't want it that bad, I'll just go in my pants". He isn't bothered at all by sitting in poopy pants. I know he understands what he's suppose to do. If he really wants something I'll tell him to go poop in the potty first. He'll go and do a little tiny poop to get it. He also knows if I use a stern voice and tell him he's not suppose to poop in his pants but in the potty, he'll run to the bathroom. I don't think there's any problems medically or in understanding. I think he has developed such a bad habit that it's mostly behavioral and he has no desire to quit. Since the intensive training I've been keeping data on when he eats and poops. I set the

timer and check his pants or take him to to potty 1-2 times per hour. I reinforce clean pants and anything in the potty. I make him help me clean the pants. There is no real pattern to when he goes. I don't verbally scold him when he poops in the pants. According to Fox you're not suppose to make a big deal of it. He will be out of school in a week and his pattern will be even more erratic. I can't use my sitter any more because she cleans our cabins in the summer. We own a fly fishing lodge truly in the middle of nowhere and will be crazy busy from now until fall. I've adverstised for help but there are simply no bodies here. I am so depressed about him almost being ten and we're no further ahead. PLEASE HELP ME! Thanks Penny __________________________________________________