Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

[Guest guest]

Holly,

Holly Crap! Glad to see you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents.

Thank you Stan

Reminds me much of you on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication.

is not the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional with it.

She was brave to mention it considering on "how " it is marketed. I imagined she's just sharing.

If it wasn't for my son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after all those years of chelating, diet, supps, etc.

Nine years for me, people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been through?

Glad to hear things are going so well !

I'd be glad to send you the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email me privately.

Take good care

Hope "M" is well. Kiss that cutie for me.

I missed seeing you on the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so much!

ps. I'll try to get back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. It's easy to say "It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not my problem." Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr." , Children's TV Show Star

RE: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go. Getting lucky is something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your kid’s health.

From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of heidiclare2004Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things. We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > >

[Guest guest]

Maurine, NCD - Natural Cellular Defense (Zeolites)

The best way to get the best info, IMHO is from parents on the NCD list as this is a marketing level product

AutismNCD/messagesI suggest you join the list for parents info, opposed to Marketers (is that a word)?

Re: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

what is NCD?heidiclare2004 <sddw@...> wrote: Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things. We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > >

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Maurine, NCD - Natural Cellular Defense (Zeolites)

The best way to get the best info, IMHO is from parents on the NCD list as this is a marketing level product

AutismNCD/messagesI suggest you join the list for parents info, opposed to Marketers (is that a word)?

Re: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

what is NCD?heidiclare2004 <sddw@...> wrote: Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things. We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > >

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

Nice to “see” you again.

J

My comment wasn’t directed toward

NCD but the willingness to try something before knowing if it should benefit

your child and how it might benefit the child medically. There is a lot of

leaping going on in autism, and I don’t find it ideal when we are talking

about kids. A number of things we’ve done have been experimental but

we’ve only done them after scouring research, talking to study authors,

doctors all over the world, and learning the body’s system that it might

affect and therefore how and why might such a treatment benefit this particular

child given his history. No winging it should be allowed. The

learning curve is steep here because it’s so important. These are

kids, not guinea pigs. Informed consent is what we want in our vaccine

program and I don’t see why we can’t apply that to treatment as

well. Our kids deserve it.

That being said, after doing my research,

I am hopeful that MB12 will help both of my kids and had come here for current info

on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective”

is more fitting.

Holly

From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of Prokofiew

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:38

AM

mb12 valtrex

Subject: Re: Re:

Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

Holly,

Holly Crap! Glad to see

you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents.

Thank you Stan

Reminds me much of you

on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication.

is not

the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional

with it.

She was brave to

mention it considering on " how " it is marketed. I imagined she's

just sharing.

If it wasn't for my

son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is

doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after

all those years of chelating, diet, supps, etc.

Nine years for me,

people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through

with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been

through?

Glad to hear things are

going so well !

I'd be glad to send you

the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email

me privately.

Take good care

Hope " M " is well.

Kiss that cutie for me.

I missed seeing you on

the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so much!

ps. I'll try to get

back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban

Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ

luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/

We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility.

It's easy to say " It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not

my problem. "

Then there are those who see the need and respond.

I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr. " ,

Children's TV Show Star

Re: Some

thoughts about the testosterone question...

Holly,

We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis

of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't

understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!)

She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the

Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could

have supported her body better through supplements.

She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more

attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some

calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-

12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made

more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I

hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many

on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published

this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes

that's all you have to go on!

>

> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting

for the

> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything

yet. We

> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for

Boston on

> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot

today

> though. :-)

>

>

>

> By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational

science.

> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward.

But we must

> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our

kids.

> If someone says " secretin lowers testosterone " or

" chelation lowers

> testosterone " I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say

it. That

> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they

cannot be

> proven, by them or anyone else, to date.

>

>

>

> I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things.

We've

> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come

and go.

> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were

innocuous

> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism

treatment or not.

> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side

effects. Bad

> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is

pristine.

> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.

>

>

>

> That's all I want.

>

>

>

> Holly

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

Nice to “see” you again.

J

My comment wasn’t directed toward

NCD but the willingness to try something before knowing if it should benefit

your child and how it might benefit the child medically. There is a lot of

leaping going on in autism, and I don’t find it ideal when we are talking

about kids. A number of things we’ve done have been experimental but

we’ve only done them after scouring research, talking to study authors,

doctors all over the world, and learning the body’s system that it might

affect and therefore how and why might such a treatment benefit this particular

child given his history. No winging it should be allowed. The

learning curve is steep here because it’s so important. These are

kids, not guinea pigs. Informed consent is what we want in our vaccine

program and I don’t see why we can’t apply that to treatment as

well. Our kids deserve it.

That being said, after doing my research,

I am hopeful that MB12 will help both of my kids and had come here for current info

on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective”

is more fitting.

Holly

From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of Prokofiew

Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:38

AM

mb12 valtrex

Subject: Re: Re:

Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

Holly,

Holly Crap! Glad to see

you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents.

Thank you Stan

Reminds me much of you

on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication.

is not

the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional

with it.

She was brave to

mention it considering on " how " it is marketed. I imagined she's

just sharing.

If it wasn't for my

son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is

doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after

all those years of chelating, diet, supps, etc.

Nine years for me,

people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through

with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been

through?

Glad to hear things are

going so well !

I'd be glad to send you

the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email

me privately.

Take good care

Hope " M " is well.

Kiss that cutie for me.

I missed seeing you on

the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so much!

ps. I'll try to get

back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban

Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ

luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/

We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility.

It's easy to say " It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not

my problem. "

Then there are those who see the need and respond.

I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr. " ,

Children's TV Show Star

Re: Some

thoughts about the testosterone question...

Holly,

We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis

of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't

understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!)

She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the

Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could

have supported her body better through supplements.

She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more

attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some

calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-

12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made

more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I

hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many

on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published

this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes

that's all you have to go on!

>

> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting

for the

> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything

yet. We

> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for

Boston on

> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot

today

> though. :-)

>

>

>

> By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational

science.

> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward.

But we must

> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our

kids.

> If someone says " secretin lowers testosterone " or

" chelation lowers

> testosterone " I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say

it. That

> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they

cannot be

> proven, by them or anyone else, to date.

>

>

>

> I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things.

We've

> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come

and go.

> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were

innocuous

> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism

treatment or not.

> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side

effects. Bad

> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is

pristine.

> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.

>

>

>

> That's all I want.

>

>

>

> Holly

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think we are drifting off topic. The folks here seem to differ in opinions and prespectives on how to treat autism. That's good! I find no value with talking to folks who agree with everything I say. Different prespectives are both healthy and needed. Back to this important topic: It seems that most people on this site and other sites feel that Lupron should be used as a "last resort". When stating "last resort", I believe a consideration should be given to the fact that the older an autistic child gets, the less likley (statistically speaking) to overcome autism. No one seems to know why this is the case. Therefore, how long should a person wait to use a last resort? Waiting too long to treat could cause far more damage than any effects of Lupron. Next consideration: What about

the risk of using Lupron? No one really knows the long-term effects of Lupron. RISKY. Not knowing the long-term effects of a drug does not make it unsafe or safe. One thing is for sure -- the child has autism. Autism is not safe. That's not RISKY, that is a GIVEN. The child's health has already been compromised -- by mercury. This could mean a life of poor communication, poor cognitive skills etc... Point here is that a child's age should be taken into consideration when considering Lupron -- not just last resort. In addition, the vast majority of complaints using Lupron are for those men & women who are well past puberty -- that's a fact based on FDA complaints. Of the kids who complained, most were older kids -- the closer to puberty, the more complaints. Also, few complaints for boys -- mostly girls. Holly Bortfeld <maximom@...> wrote: Hey , Nice to “see” you again. J My comment wasn’t directed toward NCD but the willingness to try something before knowing if it should benefit your child and how it might benefit the child medically. There is a lot of leaping going on in autism, and I don’t find it ideal when we are talking about kids. A

number of things we’ve done have been experimental but we’ve only done them after scouring research, talking to study authors, doctors all over the world, and learning the body’s system that it might affect and therefore how and why might such a treatment benefit this particular child given his history. No winging it should be allowed. The learning curve is steep here because it’s so important. These are kids, not guinea pigs. Informed consent is what we want in our vaccine program and I don’t see why we can’t apply that to treatment as well. Our kids deserve it. That being said, after doing my research, I am hopeful that MB12

will help both of my kids and had come here for current info on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective” is more fitting. Holly From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of ProkofiewSent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:38 AMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly, Holly Crap! Glad to see you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents. Thank you Stan Reminds me much of you on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication. is not the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional with it. She was brave to mention it considering on "how " it is marketed. I imagined she's just sharing. If it wasn't for my son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after all those years of chelating, diet, supps,

etc. Nine years for me, people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been through? Glad to hear things are going so well ! I'd be glad to send you the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email me privately. Take good care Hope "M" is well. Kiss that cutie for me. I missed seeing you on the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so

much! ps. I'll try to get back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it. http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. It's easy to say "It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not my problem." Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr." , Children's TV Show Star RE: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go. Getting lucky is

something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your kid’s health. From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of heidiclare2004Sent:

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better

through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12

shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things.

We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > >

Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

I think we are drifting off topic. The folks here seem to differ in opinions and prespectives on how to treat autism. That's good! I find no value with talking to folks who agree with everything I say. Different prespectives are both healthy and needed. Back to this important topic: It seems that most people on this site and other sites feel that Lupron should be used as a "last resort". When stating "last resort", I believe a consideration should be given to the fact that the older an autistic child gets, the less likley (statistically speaking) to overcome autism. No one seems to know why this is the case. Therefore, how long should a person wait to use a last resort? Waiting too long to treat could cause far more damage than any effects of Lupron. Next consideration: What about

the risk of using Lupron? No one really knows the long-term effects of Lupron. RISKY. Not knowing the long-term effects of a drug does not make it unsafe or safe. One thing is for sure -- the child has autism. Autism is not safe. That's not RISKY, that is a GIVEN. The child's health has already been compromised -- by mercury. This could mean a life of poor communication, poor cognitive skills etc... Point here is that a child's age should be taken into consideration when considering Lupron -- not just last resort. In addition, the vast majority of complaints using Lupron are for those men & women who are well past puberty -- that's a fact based on FDA complaints. Of the kids who complained, most were older kids -- the closer to puberty, the more complaints. Also, few complaints for boys -- mostly girls. Holly Bortfeld <maximom@...> wrote: Hey , Nice to “see” you again. J My comment wasn’t directed toward NCD but the willingness to try something before knowing if it should benefit your child and how it might benefit the child medically. There is a lot of leaping going on in autism, and I don’t find it ideal when we are talking about kids. A

number of things we’ve done have been experimental but we’ve only done them after scouring research, talking to study authors, doctors all over the world, and learning the body’s system that it might affect and therefore how and why might such a treatment benefit this particular child given his history. No winging it should be allowed. The learning curve is steep here because it’s so important. These are kids, not guinea pigs. Informed consent is what we want in our vaccine program and I don’t see why we can’t apply that to treatment as well. Our kids deserve it. That being said, after doing my research, I am hopeful that MB12

will help both of my kids and had come here for current info on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective” is more fitting. Holly From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of ProkofiewSent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:38 AMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly, Holly Crap! Glad to see you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents. Thank you Stan Reminds me much of you on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication. is not the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional with it. She was brave to mention it considering on "how " it is marketed. I imagined she's just sharing. If it wasn't for my son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after all those years of chelating, diet, supps,

etc. Nine years for me, people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been through? Glad to hear things are going so well ! I'd be glad to send you the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email me privately. Take good care Hope "M" is well. Kiss that cutie for me. I missed seeing you on the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so

much! ps. I'll try to get back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it. http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. It's easy to say "It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not my problem." Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr." , Children's TV Show Star RE: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go. Getting lucky is

something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your kid’s health. From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of heidiclare2004Sent:

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better

through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12

shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things.

We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > >

Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

By the way, there are far more complaints published about chelation for kids vs Lupron. Abid Khan <a_bit_solutions@...> wrote: I think we are drifting off topic. The folks here seem to differ in opinions and prespectives on how to treat autism. That's good! I find no value with talking to folks who agree with everything I say. Different prespectives are both healthy and needed. Back to this important topic: It seems that most people on this site and other sites feel that Lupron should be used as a "last resort". When stating "last resort", I believe a consideration should be given to the fact that the older an autistic child gets, the less likley (statistically speaking)

to overcome autism. No one seems to know why this is the case. Therefore, how long should a person wait to use a last resort? Waiting too long to treat could cause far more damage than any effects of Lupron. Next consideration: What about the risk of using Lupron? No one really knows the long-term effects of Lupron. RISKY. Not knowing the long-term effects of a drug does not make it unsafe or safe. One thing is for sure -- the child has autism. Autism is not safe. That's not RISKY, that is a GIVEN. The child's health has already been compromised -- by mercury. This could mean a life of poor communication, poor cognitive skills etc... Point here is that a child's age should be taken into consideration when considering Lupron -- not just last resort. In addition, the vast majority

of complaints using Lupron are for those men & women who are well past puberty -- that's a fact based on FDA complaints. Of the kids who complained, most were older kids -- the closer to puberty, the more complaints. Also, few complaints for boys -- mostly girls. Holly Bortfeld <maximom@...> wrote: Hey , Nice to “see” you again. J My comment wasn’t directed toward NCD but the willingness to try something before knowing if it should benefit your child and how it might benefit the child medically. There is a lot of leaping going on in autism, and I don’t find it ideal when we are talking about kids. A number of things we’ve done have been experimental but we’ve only done them after scouring research, talking to study authors, doctors all over the world, and learning the body’s system that it might affect and therefore how and why might such a treatment benefit this particular child given his history. No winging it should be allowed. The learning curve is steep here because it’s so important. These are kids, not guinea pigs. Informed consent is what we want in our vaccine program and I don’t see why we can’t apply that to treatment as well. Our kids deserve it.

That being said, after doing my research, I am hopeful that MB12 will help both of my kids and had come here for current info on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective” is more fitting. Holly From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of ProkofiewSent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:38 AMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly, Holly Crap! Glad to see you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents. Thank you Stan Reminds me much of you on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication. is not the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional with it. She was brave to mention it considering on "how " it is marketed. I imagined she's just

sharing. If it wasn't for my son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after all those years of chelating, diet, supps, etc. Nine years for me, people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been through? Glad to hear things are going so well ! I'd be glad to send you the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email me privately. Take good care Hope "M" is well. Kiss that cutie for me. I missed seeing you on the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so much! ps. I'll try to get back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it. http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. It's easy to say

"It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not my problem." Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr." , Children's TV Show Star RE:

Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go. Getting lucky is something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your kid’s health. From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of heidiclare2004Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our

experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are

talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things. We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more

knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on FareChase

[Guest guest]

By the way, there are far more complaints published about chelation for kids vs Lupron. Abid Khan <a_bit_solutions@...> wrote: I think we are drifting off topic. The folks here seem to differ in opinions and prespectives on how to treat autism. That's good! I find no value with talking to folks who agree with everything I say. Different prespectives are both healthy and needed. Back to this important topic: It seems that most people on this site and other sites feel that Lupron should be used as a "last resort". When stating "last resort", I believe a consideration should be given to the fact that the older an autistic child gets, the less likley (statistically speaking)

to overcome autism. No one seems to know why this is the case. Therefore, how long should a person wait to use a last resort? Waiting too long to treat could cause far more damage than any effects of Lupron. Next consideration: What about the risk of using Lupron? No one really knows the long-term effects of Lupron. RISKY. Not knowing the long-term effects of a drug does not make it unsafe or safe. One thing is for sure -- the child has autism. Autism is not safe. That's not RISKY, that is a GIVEN. The child's health has already been compromised -- by mercury. This could mean a life of poor communication, poor cognitive skills etc... Point here is that a child's age should be taken into consideration when considering Lupron -- not just last resort. In addition, the vast majority

of complaints using Lupron are for those men & women who are well past puberty -- that's a fact based on FDA complaints. Of the kids who complained, most were older kids -- the closer to puberty, the more complaints. Also, few complaints for boys -- mostly girls. Holly Bortfeld <maximom@...> wrote: Hey , Nice to “see” you again. J My comment wasn’t directed toward NCD but the willingness to try something before knowing if it should benefit your child and how it might benefit the child medically. There is a lot of leaping going on in autism, and I don’t find it ideal when we are talking about kids. A number of things we’ve done have been experimental but we’ve only done them after scouring research, talking to study authors, doctors all over the world, and learning the body’s system that it might affect and therefore how and why might such a treatment benefit this particular child given his history. No winging it should be allowed. The learning curve is steep here because it’s so important. These are kids, not guinea pigs. Informed consent is what we want in our vaccine program and I don’t see why we can’t apply that to treatment as well. Our kids deserve it.

That being said, after doing my research, I am hopeful that MB12 will help both of my kids and had come here for current info on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective” is more fitting. Holly From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of ProkofiewSent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:38 AMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly, Holly Crap! Glad to see you here! Stan has a wonderful list and is amazing in helping so many parents. Thank you Stan Reminds me much of you on the AutismRecovery List and your dedication. is not the only one having success with NCD. I personally know kids doing exceptional with it. She was brave to mention it considering on "how " it is marketed. I imagined she's just

sharing. If it wasn't for my son's doctor I regard highly I would have blown it off too. My tough nut kid is doing well with it considering he is almost 13 and has a mustache. And after all those years of chelating, diet, supps, etc. Nine years for me, people snaring at me chelating in 1999...lol. Much like what Stan went through with the Valtrex B12. but..how can we not be sceptics after all we've been through? Glad to hear things are going so well ! I'd be glad to send you the science and the patent if you'd like to look at it Holly, email me privately. Take good care Hope "M" is well. Kiss that cutie for me. I missed seeing you on the lists, especially yours of which I enjoyed so much! ps. I'll try to get back to you on the info asked for as soon as the Assembly Hearings to Ban Thimerasol here in NJ are over tomorrow and things settle down a bit. Wish NJ luck, we got the big Pharma's here so we need it. http://home.earthlink.net/~aprokofiew/We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. It's easy to say

"It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not my problem." Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes. -- Fred " Mr." , Children's TV Show Star RE:

Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go. Getting lucky is something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your kid’s health. From: mb12 valtrex [mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On Behalf Of heidiclare2004Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PMmb12 valtrex Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone question... Holly,We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a diagnosis of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I didn't understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum factory!) She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I could have supported her body better through supplements.She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN, MB-12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has made more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine. I hate the MLM aspect of this, but our

experience is just one of many on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be published this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith. Sometimes that's all you have to go on! >> Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are waiting for the> blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out anything yet. We> got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for Boston on> Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first shot today> though. :-)> > > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good foundational science.> If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go forward. But we must> do our due diligence on this stuff because we are

talking about our kids.> If someone says "secretin lowers testosterone" or "chelation lowers> testosterone" I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't say it. That> is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and they cannot be> proven, by them or anyone else, to date. > > > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new things. We've> been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot come and go.> I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things were innocuous> and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism treatment or not.> Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side effects. Bad> ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it is pristine.> Not flawed. Less guessing, more

knowing.> > > > That's all I want.> > > > Holly> > > Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on FareChase

[Guest guest]

Stan,

Fantastic post and welcome back. I'm so incredibly sorry for your

loss. I agree with everything you wrote. Even watching the Giers

interviews it clear that it all comes back to regulating and getting enough

glutathione. -

Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

Some are starting to wonder if they whould be checking for, and going after

testosterone

issues in thier children with autism. I don't feel the question should be

" Should I treat my

child for high testosterone?, " I believe the question should be, " Does my

child have high

testosterone? " and if so, " What can I do about it (that I can be comfortable

doing)? "

Most of us, if not all, agree that Glutathione (GSH) is a good thing for our

kids and that

many of our kids have decreased amounts of Glutathione or it's precursor

cystiene. GSH is

our bodies most important antioxident. It blocks metals like mercury from

binding to

tissue, it controls free electrons which can cause damage to tissue, it

helps methylation, it

helps control viral activity, and many other wonderful things.

We've been chasing after ways of increase GSH for some time now, but what we

haven't

realized until recent work from the Gieirs, is that GSH levels are directly

corrilated to the

amount of testosterone in the body. If you have less GSH, you'll have more

testosterone

and vice-versa. IMO, This may eventually explain why women generally live

longer than

men.

So, the next question is, " Is testosterone a downstream issue caused by

something else? "

or " Is the testosterone issue a key causal element of autism? "

The Geiers argue that testosterone issues are the cause of autism. My hunch

is that it's

different for different children and I'll tell you why.

First, we know that testosterone plus mercury causes more damage than

mercury plus

estrogen. In fact, estrogen protects the brain and testosterone seems to

synergistically

work with mercury to do damage. The could be one of the reasons we see so

many boys

with autism compared to girls.

What causes high testosterone? We now know that low glutathione is a cause.

We also

know that alchohol reduces GSH and that fungus in the gut creates alchohol.

We also

know that some antifungals seem to lower testosterone. Maybe it's as simple

as just

lowering the fungal levels effectively which stop the testosterone problem

in some

children.

I also believe that serotonin and or tryptophan levels have something to do

with it as well.

I've had IBS much of my life until I started using MB12. Back in the days

when I had IBS

attacks my head would feel so foggy and tired and I couldn't stand to be

touched. In the

middle of an attack, while sitting on the toilet I would take off all my

clothes because the

feeling of anything on my body was aggrivating. At the same time, I would

get arroused

for " no good reason. " It never made sense to me.

I can actually remember one incident as a teenager (about 13) when I was

riding my dirt

bike back in the woods miles from my house. My stomach was in severe pain

and I

needed a bathroom right that second. I was holding it as best I could with

every ounce of

my strength while racing back to my house and then I felt quite a large

amount of a liquid

coming from my pants. I thought I lost contenence because of all the pain,

but on closer

examination... I actually orgasimed with more excretion than ever before and

ever since.

This is the first time I ever shared that story. I never understood it and

was a bit ashamed

about it. Today, it's much clearer to me what was going on. As my gut had

more

challenges, my testosterone increased, my clarity of mind decreased (lower

GSH, higher

testosterone). When the IBS attacks ended things began to normalize.

When my IBS was stabilized by MB12, my high testosterone symptoms began to

lessen.

What were my high testosterone symptoms? Early hair growth on my arms,

legs, mustache

(I could get alcohol at 13 years old), loss of hair at an early age, oily

skin, adult acne,

attention problems, frustration issues, impulsive, overly frequent erections

(For example, I

walked around middle school... middle school with a constant erection), wet

dreams as a

teenager (during typical dreams... I'm not talking about sex dreams...). I

was also a young

child with frequent ear infections and on many antibiotics.

My guess is that if I was born in 1999 during the hay day of mercury in

vaccines, I would

have surely been autistic.

Anyway, I can personally tell you that once my gut was in better shape, this

testosterone

issue became much less acute. So, what does that mean? I'm not any less

strong, or less

functional in any way. I'm just more normal... with less gut problems, sore

throats, focus

issues, skin problems, less impulsive, less angry.... etc.

Basically, I have two take away messages in this post.

1. If your child tests for high testosterone, I believe it is worth trying

to normalize it. And

I'm not talking about reducing it to low levels... just lowering the

adversly high levels that

can cause damage to your child. I don't believe in messing with mother

nature, but if the

body is producing way too much of anything that is harmful, I believe it's

worth it to

consider going after it.

2. If you do go after it, I personally don't believe in using things like

Lupron prior to going

after the raising GSH, treating the gut with diet and antifungals,

probiotics, even metals

detox can lower testosterone... many things we do in biomed do... and I

believe in trying

the more non-invasive ways FIRST. This has always been my philosophy. I

believe that

many testosterone issues can be managed by healing the gut and improving

methylation.

Now, what if these things don't work? I can think of a very physically

strong child who is

not responding to biomed and has very severe gut issues... what do you do

then... when

all else is exhausted?

If a child like this tested for high testosterone, he (she) might be a

candidate for a trial of a

drug that lowered testosterone. Maybe I would try it if that were my child,

but right now it

is a very untested therapy and there are many respected doctors (DAN! Docs,

researchers,

parents, etc) who are concerned using Lupron for children. If I were to do

this, I would do

it as a complete last resort and keep testing the levels and work slowly not

to lower them

below normal. AND, this is a completely untested therapy, even in our world

of anecdotal

experience and cutting edge therapies... I don't believe we know the

potential side effects

just yet. So, at this point I would approach this carefully if at all.

This post isn't designed to have all the answers, but to share some honest

experiences

that make it safer for anyone to discuss this topic openly.

- Stan

[Guest guest]

Stan,

Fantastic post and welcome back. I'm so incredibly sorry for your

loss. I agree with everything you wrote. Even watching the Giers

interviews it clear that it all comes back to regulating and getting enough

glutathione. -

Some thoughts about the testosterone question...

Some are starting to wonder if they whould be checking for, and going after

testosterone

issues in thier children with autism. I don't feel the question should be

" Should I treat my

child for high testosterone?, " I believe the question should be, " Does my

child have high

testosterone? " and if so, " What can I do about it (that I can be comfortable

doing)? "

Most of us, if not all, agree that Glutathione (GSH) is a good thing for our

kids and that

many of our kids have decreased amounts of Glutathione or it's precursor

cystiene. GSH is

our bodies most important antioxident. It blocks metals like mercury from

binding to

tissue, it controls free electrons which can cause damage to tissue, it

helps methylation, it

helps control viral activity, and many other wonderful things.

We've been chasing after ways of increase GSH for some time now, but what we

haven't

realized until recent work from the Gieirs, is that GSH levels are directly

corrilated to the

amount of testosterone in the body. If you have less GSH, you'll have more

testosterone

and vice-versa. IMO, This may eventually explain why women generally live

longer than

men.

So, the next question is, " Is testosterone a downstream issue caused by

something else? "

or " Is the testosterone issue a key causal element of autism? "

The Geiers argue that testosterone issues are the cause of autism. My hunch

is that it's

different for different children and I'll tell you why.

First, we know that testosterone plus mercury causes more damage than

mercury plus

estrogen. In fact, estrogen protects the brain and testosterone seems to

synergistically

work with mercury to do damage. The could be one of the reasons we see so

many boys

with autism compared to girls.

What causes high testosterone? We now know that low glutathione is a cause.

We also

know that alchohol reduces GSH and that fungus in the gut creates alchohol.

We also

know that some antifungals seem to lower testosterone. Maybe it's as simple

as just

lowering the fungal levels effectively which stop the testosterone problem

in some

children.

I also believe that serotonin and or tryptophan levels have something to do

with it as well.

I've had IBS much of my life until I started using MB12. Back in the days

when I had IBS

attacks my head would feel so foggy and tired and I couldn't stand to be

touched. In the

middle of an attack, while sitting on the toilet I would take off all my

clothes because the

feeling of anything on my body was aggrivating. At the same time, I would

get arroused

for " no good reason. " It never made sense to me.

I can actually remember one incident as a teenager (about 13) when I was

riding my dirt

bike back in the woods miles from my house. My stomach was in severe pain

and I

needed a bathroom right that second. I was holding it as best I could with

every ounce of

my strength while racing back to my house and then I felt quite a large

amount of a liquid

coming from my pants. I thought I lost contenence because of all the pain,

but on closer

examination... I actually orgasimed with more excretion than ever before and

ever since.

This is the first time I ever shared that story. I never understood it and

was a bit ashamed

about it. Today, it's much clearer to me what was going on. As my gut had

more

challenges, my testosterone increased, my clarity of mind decreased (lower

GSH, higher

testosterone). When the IBS attacks ended things began to normalize.

When my IBS was stabilized by MB12, my high testosterone symptoms began to

lessen.

What were my high testosterone symptoms? Early hair growth on my arms,

legs, mustache

(I could get alcohol at 13 years old), loss of hair at an early age, oily

skin, adult acne,

attention problems, frustration issues, impulsive, overly frequent erections

(For example, I

walked around middle school... middle school with a constant erection), wet

dreams as a

teenager (during typical dreams... I'm not talking about sex dreams...). I

was also a young

child with frequent ear infections and on many antibiotics.

My guess is that if I was born in 1999 during the hay day of mercury in

vaccines, I would

have surely been autistic.

Anyway, I can personally tell you that once my gut was in better shape, this

testosterone

issue became much less acute. So, what does that mean? I'm not any less

strong, or less

functional in any way. I'm just more normal... with less gut problems, sore

throats, focus

issues, skin problems, less impulsive, less angry.... etc.

Basically, I have two take away messages in this post.

1. If your child tests for high testosterone, I believe it is worth trying

to normalize it. And

I'm not talking about reducing it to low levels... just lowering the

adversly high levels that

can cause damage to your child. I don't believe in messing with mother

nature, but if the

body is producing way too much of anything that is harmful, I believe it's

worth it to

consider going after it.

2. If you do go after it, I personally don't believe in using things like

Lupron prior to going

after the raising GSH, treating the gut with diet and antifungals,

probiotics, even metals

detox can lower testosterone... many things we do in biomed do... and I

believe in trying

the more non-invasive ways FIRST. This has always been my philosophy. I

believe that

many testosterone issues can be managed by healing the gut and improving

methylation.

Now, what if these things don't work? I can think of a very physically

strong child who is

not responding to biomed and has very severe gut issues... what do you do

then... when

all else is exhausted?

If a child like this tested for high testosterone, he (she) might be a

candidate for a trial of a

drug that lowered testosterone. Maybe I would try it if that were my child,

but right now it

is a very untested therapy and there are many respected doctors (DAN! Docs,

researchers,

parents, etc) who are concerned using Lupron for children. If I were to do

this, I would do

it as a complete last resort and keep testing the levels and work slowly not

to lower them

below normal. AND, this is a completely untested therapy, even in our world

of anecdotal

experience and cutting edge therapies... I don't believe we know the

potential side effects

just yet. So, at this point I would approach this carefully if at all.

This post isn't designed to have all the answers, but to share some honest

experiences

that make it safer for anyone to discuss this topic openly.

- Stan

[Guest guest]

I am hopeful that MB12 will help both of my kids and had come here for current info on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective” is more fitting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Holly,

I didn't want to try the Lupron either even after seeing the Giere's in New York and having them here in NJ so I know what you mean about making choices. The Giere's have been critical here across the nation in helping us Ban Thimerasol. This I hope will help many kids and families who may never even know it.

As far as the list goes I think Stan and here have alot to offer in educating the parents about treatment options and he has nothing to sell..haha. Certainly it was a misunderstanding.

There is alot of hand holding here since there are many newbies who need support as well as old timers that have been around the block like us and Stan has the patience and endurance to stay and help them. Bless him

So many recovered kids parents have dissapeared and who can blame them. just MHO

I know of many kids here in NJ that are doing well with MB12 and/or Valtrex and near recovery so it's all worth looking into. We've all been victims...sigh and it's so hard

with that said, I'm hoping you'll stay. and..

I'm hoping the MB12 and Valtrex help your kids as well as many others.

hope I didn't say anything to offend anyone

,

[Guest guest]

I am hopeful that MB12 will help both of my kids and had come here for current info on Valtrex in autism, but it may be better if I find a list where my “perspective” is more fitting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Holly,

I didn't want to try the Lupron either even after seeing the Giere's in New York and having them here in NJ so I know what you mean about making choices. The Giere's have been critical here across the nation in helping us Ban Thimerasol. This I hope will help many kids and families who may never even know it.

As far as the list goes I think Stan and here have alot to offer in educating the parents about treatment options and he has nothing to sell..haha. Certainly it was a misunderstanding.

There is alot of hand holding here since there are many newbies who need support as well as old timers that have been around the block like us and Stan has the patience and endurance to stay and help them. Bless him

So many recovered kids parents have dissapeared and who can blame them. just MHO

I know of many kids here in NJ that are doing well with MB12 and/or Valtrex and near recovery so it's all worth looking into. We've all been victims...sigh and it's so hard

with that said, I'm hoping you'll stay. and..

I'm hoping the MB12 and Valtrex help your kids as well as many others.

hope I didn't say anything to offend anyone

,

[Guest guest]

Welcome back Stan,

Your input on this list has been invaluable to me. My youngest has

improved greatly on the nasal MB-12 spray (teachers and others have

noticed and commented) as I have posted previously. Your COMPASSION

has been appreciated by many. Glad your back!

P.S. I don't take offense to others who have been battling for so

long - prefer to take the high road!

> >

> > Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go.

Getting lucky

> > is something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your

kid's health.

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: mb12 valtrex

[mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On

> > Behalf Of heidiclare2004

> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PM

> > mb12 valtrex

> > Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone

question...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Holly,

> >

> > We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a

diagnosis

> > of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I

didn't

> > understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum

factory!)

> > She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the

> > Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I

could

> > have supported her body better through supplements.

> >

> > She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more

> > attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some

> > calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN,

MB-

> > 12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has

made

> > more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine.

I

> > hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of

many

> > on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be

published

> > this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith.

Sometimes

> > that's all you have to go on!

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are

waiting

> > for the

> > > blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out

anything

> > yet. We

> > > got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for

> > Boston on

> > > Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first

shot

> > today

> > > though. :-)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good

foundational

> > science.

> > > If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go

forward.

> > But we must

> > > do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking

about our

> > kids.

> > > If someone says " secretin lowers testosterone " or " chelation

lowers

> > > testosterone " I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't

say

> > it. That

> > > is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and

they

> > cannot be

> > > proven, by them or anyone else, to date.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new

things.

> > We've

> > > been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot

come

> > and go.

> > > I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things

were

> > innocuous

> > > and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism

> > treatment or not.

> > > Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side

> > effects. Bad

> > > ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it

is

> > pristine.

> > > Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That's all I want.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Holly

[Guest guest]

Welcome back Stan,

Your input on this list has been invaluable to me. My youngest has

improved greatly on the nasal MB-12 spray (teachers and others have

noticed and commented) as I have posted previously. Your COMPASSION

has been appreciated by many. Glad your back!

P.S. I don't take offense to others who have been battling for so

long - prefer to take the high road!

> >

> > Sorry, not a big leaper. This is my kid. No basis? No go.

Getting lucky

> > is something for teenagers in cars, not what you do with your

kid's health.

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: mb12 valtrex

[mailto:mb12 valtrex ] On

> > Behalf Of heidiclare2004

> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:53 PM

> > mb12 valtrex

> > Subject: Re: Some thoughts about the testosterone

question...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Holly,

> >

> > We did ten months of Lupron when my dd was 10. She had a

diagnosis

> > of central precocious puberty. She began chelating which I

didn't

> > understand at the time. (Her hair smelled like an aluminum

factory!)

> > She also developed vocal tics after several months. We quit the

> > Lupron because of this. Had I known about the heavy metals, I

could

> > have supported her body better through supplements.

> >

> > She did improve and her teachers noticed her becomming more

> > attentive. That was after we stopped and I started her on some

> > calcium supplements. We have since done a year of TD-DMPS, LDN,

MB-

> > 12, Valtrex, antifungals, etc. We are now on NCD and she has

made

> > more progress in the last four weeks than we could ever imagine.

I

> > hate the MLM aspect of this, but our experience is just one of

many

> > on the AutismNCD site. Still waiting on the research to be

published

> > this month on NCD but truly I just took a leap of faith.

Sometimes

> > that's all you have to go on!

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi Stan, We just went to see the Geier's last week. We are

waiting

> > for the

> > > blood work orders to do the testing. I haven't ruled out

anything

> > yet. We

> > > got our MB12 shots today but I am holding off as we leave for

> > Boston on

> > > Friday to get rescoped with Buie. My daughter got her first

shot

> > today

> > > though. :-)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > By proof, I mean, can we base your hypothesis on good

foundational

> > science.

> > > If we cannot, we need to start over. If we can, we go

forward.

> > But we must

> > > do our due diligence on this stuff because we are talking

about our

> > kids.

> > > If someone says " secretin lowers testosterone " or " chelation

lowers

> > > testosterone " I expect you to be able to prove it - or don't

say

> > it. That

> > > is not unreasonable. The Geier's have said those things and

they

> > cannot be

> > > proven, by them or anyone else, to date.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just want us to be careful when we get excited about new

things.

> > We've

> > > been doing this for 8 years, biomedically. I've seen a lot

come

> > and go.

> > > I've seen the fever pitch that people can hit. Most things

were

> > innocuous

> > > and had few side effects, whether they worked as an autism

> > treatment or not.

> > > Lupron is not one of those things. Lupron has A LOT of side

> > effects. Bad

> > > ones. We need to make sure that all science leading up to it

is

> > pristine.

> > > Not flawed. Less guessing, more knowing.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That's all I want.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Holly