*** Selenium and mercury are redistributed to the brain during viral infection

[Guest guest]

This important peer reviewed article may help to illuminate why we are seeing

higher

levels of metals excretion in the urine during antiviral therapy, and why we

sometimes

observe the mobile rashes that change color and intensity (possibly metals

rashes).

- Stan

-------------

<Article forwarded by Binstock>

Biol Trace Elem Res. 2005 Winter;108(1-3):215-24. Related Articles, Links

Selenium and mercury are redistributed to the brain during viral infection in

mice.

Ilback NG, Lindh U, Minqin R, Friman G, Watt F.

Section of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medical Sciences, Uppsala

University

Hospital, Uppsala, Sweden.

As part of the general host response to coxsackievirus B3 (CB3) infection, the

concentration of essential and nonessential trace elements changes in different

target

organs of the infection. Essential (e.g., Se) and nonessential (e.g., Hg) trace

elements are

known to interact and affect inflammatory tissue lesions induced by CB3

infection.

However, it is unknown whether these changes involve the brain. In the present

study, the

brain Hg and Se contents were measured through inductively coupled plasma-mass

spectrometry and their distribution investigated by means of nuclear microscopy

in the

early phase (d 3) of CB3 infection in normally fed female Balb/c mice. Because

of the

infection, the concentration of Hg (4.07 +/- 0.46 ng/g wet wt) and Se (340 +/-

16 ng/g

wet wt) in the brain increased twofold for Hg (8.77 +/- 1.65 ng/g wet wt, p <

0.05) and

by 36% for Se (461 +/- 150 ng/g wet wt, ns). Nuclear microscopy of brain

sections from

mice having elevated Se and Hg concentrations failed to find localized levels of

the

elements high enough to make detection possible, indicating approximately

homogeneous

tissue distribution. Although the pathophysiological interpretation of these

findings

requires further research, the increase of Hg in the brain during infection

might have an

influence on the pathogenesis of the disease.

PMID: 16327074

[Guest guest]

So is this extra selenium in the brain a bad thing? Should one not

give too much selenium during viral treatments? Boyd Haley had done

a study about how selenium binds with mercury in the brain and

renders it inert. It didn't quite answer the question of whether

this was a good thing or a bad thing. The downside might be, how do

you get this mercury-selenium combo to get out of the brain.

Okay I looked in my files and found a parent on CK2 who had

contacted Boyd Haley and had said that it was okay to share this

information. Not sure whether he meant only the CK2 list or any

list, I am removing his name for privacy. If he is on here anyway,

he could comment on it.

Gayatri

PS Sorry about the formatting, too much to clean up!

All,

A while back, Dr. McCandless posted (on CSB) that Dr. Boyd Haley

recommended

not to give Selenium during chelation days as it binds mercury (thus

preventing excretion). We give Selenium to our boys in drop form and

in

Picmins during chelation days because our boys are low in Selenium.

So, this

statement peaked my interest and made me wonder if the low urine Hg

output

we see could be caused by giving Selenium during chelation days.

Below is a

series of emails and responses between Dr Haley and I. He was

gracious

enough to clarify this and I feel that it is important enough to

share so

everyone can make their own decision on when to administer Selenium.

Dr

Haley is fine with me sharing this information. In addition, I

thought I

would ask Dr. Haley about the new chelator he is working on. He was

also

nice enough to give me an update which is at the bottom of this post.

Email exchange on Selenium and Mercury

At 11:14 PM 1/16/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr. Haley,

I recently saw a post regarding info on selenium and mercury

binding. The

information indicated that you recommended that selenium NOT be

given during

chelation days, as it keeps the mercury tied up so it is non-toxic

to the

body and when we chelate we want the mercury to be available for

removal. So

giving it all the time might slow down mercury excretion.

I think I understand why this is so, but it really caught my

attention as I

know that many many parents actually give Selenium during chelation

days.

If I am understanding this correctly, then many parents need to know

to stop

giving Selenium during chelation. Would you mind elaborating on

this? My

concern is that many parents may not be seeing full mercury excretion

because of what you are indicating. All of the parents I know on the

various

forums have a great deal of respect for you and this could help us

in our

quest to chelate mercury.

Sincerely,

From: Boyd E. Haley [ <mailto:behaley@...> mailto:behaley@...]

> >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:10 AM

> >To:

> >Subject: Re: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

,

Selenium, Se2-, binds mercury tighter than DMPS or DMSA. Therefore,

if both

Se2- and DMSA are in the blood at the same time the Hg2+ will

preferentially

be bound by the Se2- and will not be Hg2+ excreted in the urine and

one will

end up with a lower excretion reading if they are using urine as the

test

material, which is the normal way it is done. I don't think having

Se2- in

the blood will do any damage, it may even help to remove the toxic

mercury

from the proteins being inhibited. But it will likely give a lower

urine

mercury reading on a DMPS or DMSA challenge test. HgSe is not rapidly

removed from the body, but it is of very low, if any, toxicity. Boyd

Haley

>At 06:59 PM 1/17/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr Haley,

Thank you for the response. I am a little confused though. I thought

that if

Selenium bound Mercury during chelation then the Mercury would stay

internal

(instead of being swept) and cause more damage to the CNS. But, if

the

Selenium is rendering the Mercury inactive then I guess it would not

cause

damage, although it would not be excreted.

If the latter is true, then would the mercury leave your system

during OFF

days of chelation. Can you please elaborate as this may seem like a

small

point, but I assure you it is important for parents to know if they

should

stop giving Selenium during chelation ON days, which is what I

gather from

this. Not that it is harmful, but that it impedes chelation progress.

Also, may I share your response on the chelation parent forum please?

From: Boyd E. Haley [ <mailto:behaley@...> mailto:behaley@...]

>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:46 PM

>To:

>Subject: RE: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

First, feel free to share whatever I send you to whomever you wish.

I don't

keep my opinions on mercury chemistry/biochemistry secret from

anyone.

It is well known that mercury miners have very high levels of

mercury in

their body tissues, levels that would make more normal individuals

quite

sick, yet they appear relatively healthy. It was also determined

that for

each unit of mercury they retain they also retain an equal unit of

selenium

from their diet. Therefore, they are retaining mercury selenide

(HgSe) at

high levels and this compound appears not to be toxic because the

typing up

of the Hg2+ with Se2- keeping the Hg2+ from reacting with and

inhibiting

enzymes in the body. This does not mean that it is good to have HgSe

in the

body and that there are no negative effects from this build up, but

HgSe is

much less toxic than Hg2+.

I don't think that it is known how or if HgSe is excreted by the

body. It is

probably dependent on where the HgSe forms. If it is formed in the

blood it

might be excreted, but if it is formed in the brain it is likely to

be there

for a long time. Finally, I don't know the answer as to whether it

is good

or bad to give selenium on days of chelation, but it seems likely to

me that

the presence of Se2- in the blood would decrease the binding and

excretion

of mercury in the urine by DMPS or DMSA. However, the presence of

Se2- in

the blood could increase the fecal excretion of Hg, but I do not

know of any

study that addresses this issue.

>

> This important peer reviewed article may help to illuminate why we

are seeing higher

> levels of metals excretion in the urine during antiviral therapy,

and why we sometimes

> observe the mobile rashes that change color and intensity

(possibly metals rashes).

>

> - Stan

>

> -------------

>

> <Article forwarded by Binstock>

>

> Biol Trace Elem Res. 2005 Winter;108(1-3):215-24. Related

Articles, Links

>

> Selenium and mercury are redistributed to the brain during viral

infection in mice.

>

> Ilback NG, Lindh U, Minqin R, Friman G, Watt F.

>

> Section of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medical Sciences,

Uppsala University

> Hospital, Uppsala, Sweden.

>

> As part of the general host response to coxsackievirus B3 (CB3)

infection, the

> concentration of essential and nonessential trace elements changes

in different target

> organs of the infection. Essential (e.g., Se) and nonessential

(e.g., Hg) trace elements are

> known to interact and affect inflammatory tissue lesions induced

by CB3 infection.

> However, it is unknown whether these changes involve the brain. In

the present study, the

> brain Hg and Se contents were measured through inductively coupled

plasma-mass

> spectrometry and their distribution investigated by means of

nuclear microscopy in the

> early phase (d 3) of CB3 infection in normally fed female Balb/c

mice. Because of the

> infection, the concentration of Hg (4.07 +/- 0.46 ng/g wet wt) and

Se (340 +/- 16 ng/g

> wet wt) in the brain increased twofold for Hg (8.77 +/- 1.65 ng/g

wet wt, p < 0.05) and

> by 36% for Se (461 +/- 150 ng/g wet wt, ns). Nuclear microscopy of

brain sections from

> mice having elevated Se and Hg concentrations failed to find

localized levels of the

> elements high enough to make detection possible, indicating

approximately homogeneous

> tissue distribution. Although the pathophysiological

interpretation of these findings

> requires further research, the increase of Hg in the brain during

infection might have an

> influence on the pathogenesis of the disease.

>

> PMID: 16327074

>

[Guest guest]

So is this extra selenium in the brain a bad thing? Should one not

give too much selenium during viral treatments? Boyd Haley had done

a study about how selenium binds with mercury in the brain and

renders it inert. It didn't quite answer the question of whether

this was a good thing or a bad thing. The downside might be, how do

you get this mercury-selenium combo to get out of the brain.

Okay I looked in my files and found a parent on CK2 who had

contacted Boyd Haley and had said that it was okay to share this

information. Not sure whether he meant only the CK2 list or any

list, I am removing his name for privacy. If he is on here anyway,

he could comment on it.

Gayatri

PS Sorry about the formatting, too much to clean up!

All,

A while back, Dr. McCandless posted (on CSB) that Dr. Boyd Haley

recommended

not to give Selenium during chelation days as it binds mercury (thus

preventing excretion). We give Selenium to our boys in drop form and

in

Picmins during chelation days because our boys are low in Selenium.

So, this

statement peaked my interest and made me wonder if the low urine Hg

output

we see could be caused by giving Selenium during chelation days.

Below is a

series of emails and responses between Dr Haley and I. He was

gracious

enough to clarify this and I feel that it is important enough to

share so

everyone can make their own decision on when to administer Selenium.

Dr

Haley is fine with me sharing this information. In addition, I

thought I

would ask Dr. Haley about the new chelator he is working on. He was

also

nice enough to give me an update which is at the bottom of this post.

Email exchange on Selenium and Mercury

At 11:14 PM 1/16/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr. Haley,

I recently saw a post regarding info on selenium and mercury

binding. The

information indicated that you recommended that selenium NOT be

given during

chelation days, as it keeps the mercury tied up so it is non-toxic

to the

body and when we chelate we want the mercury to be available for

removal. So

giving it all the time might slow down mercury excretion.

I think I understand why this is so, but it really caught my

attention as I

know that many many parents actually give Selenium during chelation

days.

If I am understanding this correctly, then many parents need to know

to stop

giving Selenium during chelation. Would you mind elaborating on

this? My

concern is that many parents may not be seeing full mercury excretion

because of what you are indicating. All of the parents I know on the

various

forums have a great deal of respect for you and this could help us

in our

quest to chelate mercury.

Sincerely,

From: Boyd E. Haley [ <mailto:behaley@...> mailto:behaley@...]

> >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:10 AM

> >To:

> >Subject: Re: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

,

Selenium, Se2-, binds mercury tighter than DMPS or DMSA. Therefore,

if both

Se2- and DMSA are in the blood at the same time the Hg2+ will

preferentially

be bound by the Se2- and will not be Hg2+ excreted in the urine and

one will

end up with a lower excretion reading if they are using urine as the

test

material, which is the normal way it is done. I don't think having

Se2- in

the blood will do any damage, it may even help to remove the toxic

mercury

from the proteins being inhibited. But it will likely give a lower

urine

mercury reading on a DMPS or DMSA challenge test. HgSe is not rapidly

removed from the body, but it is of very low, if any, toxicity. Boyd

Haley

>At 06:59 PM 1/17/06 -0500, you wrote:

Dr Haley,

Thank you for the response. I am a little confused though. I thought

that if

Selenium bound Mercury during chelation then the Mercury would stay

internal

(instead of being swept) and cause more damage to the CNS. But, if

the

Selenium is rendering the Mercury inactive then I guess it would not

cause

damage, although it would not be excreted.

If the latter is true, then would the mercury leave your system

during OFF

days of chelation. Can you please elaborate as this may seem like a

small

point, but I assure you it is important for parents to know if they

should

stop giving Selenium during chelation ON days, which is what I

gather from

this. Not that it is harmful, but that it impedes chelation progress.

Also, may I share your response on the chelation parent forum please?

From: Boyd E. Haley [ <mailto:behaley@...> mailto:behaley@...]

>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:46 PM

>To:

>Subject: RE: Selenium and Chelation of Mercury

First, feel free to share whatever I send you to whomever you wish.

I don't

keep my opinions on mercury chemistry/biochemistry secret from

anyone.

It is well known that mercury miners have very high levels of

mercury in

their body tissues, levels that would make more normal individuals

quite

sick, yet they appear relatively healthy. It was also determined

that for

each unit of mercury they retain they also retain an equal unit of

selenium

from their diet. Therefore, they are retaining mercury selenide

(HgSe) at

high levels and this compound appears not to be toxic because the

typing up

of the Hg2+ with Se2- keeping the Hg2+ from reacting with and

inhibiting

enzymes in the body. This does not mean that it is good to have HgSe

in the

body and that there are no negative effects from this build up, but

HgSe is

much less toxic than Hg2+.

I don't think that it is known how or if HgSe is excreted by the

body. It is

probably dependent on where the HgSe forms. If it is formed in the

blood it

might be excreted, but if it is formed in the brain it is likely to

be there

for a long time. Finally, I don't know the answer as to whether it

is good

or bad to give selenium on days of chelation, but it seems likely to

me that

the presence of Se2- in the blood would decrease the binding and

excretion

of mercury in the urine by DMPS or DMSA. However, the presence of

Se2- in

the blood could increase the fecal excretion of Hg, but I do not

know of any

study that addresses this issue.

>

> This important peer reviewed article may help to illuminate why we

are seeing higher

> levels of metals excretion in the urine during antiviral therapy,

and why we sometimes

> observe the mobile rashes that change color and intensity

(possibly metals rashes).

>

> - Stan

>

> -------------

>

> <Article forwarded by Binstock>

>

> Biol Trace Elem Res. 2005 Winter;108(1-3):215-24. Related

Articles, Links

>

> Selenium and mercury are redistributed to the brain during viral

infection in mice.

>

> Ilback NG, Lindh U, Minqin R, Friman G, Watt F.

>

> Section of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medical Sciences,

Uppsala University

> Hospital, Uppsala, Sweden.

>

> As part of the general host response to coxsackievirus B3 (CB3)

infection, the

> concentration of essential and nonessential trace elements changes

in different target

> organs of the infection. Essential (e.g., Se) and nonessential

(e.g., Hg) trace elements are

> known to interact and affect inflammatory tissue lesions induced

by CB3 infection.

> However, it is unknown whether these changes involve the brain. In

the present study, the

> brain Hg and Se contents were measured through inductively coupled

plasma-mass

> spectrometry and their distribution investigated by means of

nuclear microscopy in the

> early phase (d 3) of CB3 infection in normally fed female Balb/c

mice. Because of the

> infection, the concentration of Hg (4.07 +/- 0.46 ng/g wet wt) and

Se (340 +/- 16 ng/g

> wet wt) in the brain increased twofold for Hg (8.77 +/- 1.65 ng/g

wet wt, p < 0.05) and

> by 36% for Se (461 +/- 150 ng/g wet wt, ns). Nuclear microscopy of

brain sections from

> mice having elevated Se and Hg concentrations failed to find

localized levels of the

> elements high enough to make detection possible, indicating

approximately homogeneous

> tissue distribution. Although the pathophysiological

interpretation of these findings

> requires further research, the increase of Hg in the brain during

infection might have an

> influence on the pathogenesis of the disease.

>

> PMID: 16327074

>