Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 11/13/16 Dr. Neubrander spoke about a Nasal Spray / Shot Study that he conducted over the last few months. I've summarized it in this post: Products Sub-Q Shots 64.5 mg/kg at 25mg/ml Nasal Spray – 1250mg MB12 AND 300mg Folinic Acid (1 spray) Subjects: 100 using methyl-B12 shots alone. 10 using nasal spray alone. 37 using nasal spray with every 3 day shots. 8 using nasal spray with every 2 day shots. 36 using nasal spray with daily shots. Definitions: Positive: " undeniable " change over baseline. Neutral: no change noted. Negative: " intolerable " side effects requiring discontinuation of the treatment. Set 1: The Spray Alone (10 people) 60% - Positive 20% - Negative 20% - Neutral Set 2: The Spray on Top of the high dose daily shots protocol (people who are already responding to daily doses of MB12) 44% Positive 25% Negative 31% Neutral Set 3: The Spray on top of the shots every third day protocol (people who are already responding to the lower dose of every three days). 32% Positive 46% Negative 22% Neutral ------- This study was a very important initial study. There are two variables of this study that are not controlled particularly well this time around. First, the spray is given with folinic, and a certain about of people (possibly 20%) have negative responses to folinic acid, so it's hard to see what part of the negative responses were because of that verses the delivery method. Second, most of this study was conducted by putting the spray on top of the shots rather than a side-by-side study. What we learn from doing it this way is either some of the children were under dosing with sub-q injections or possibly (and my current theory) that the spray affects a different set of organs and possibly a different place in the metabolism In summary, there are more studies coming out on the nasal spray (one with Jill , another hopefully with Dr. Neubrander and I) and we have much more to learn. I believe that the spray works on some people when the shots do not, and at times, helps provide greater improvements on top of the shots. In the Think Tank we discussed that the Olfactory nerve in the nose is probably the pathway of getting it so quickly to the brain. This seems to be good for some children, but the bolus dose the nose can also provide may be too much for other people and those people may be better off on sub-q shots. For example, I had severe symptoms of both IBS and ADHD. For me both the shots or the spray work very well. The shots seem to help my liver and gut a little bit more than the spray, but the spray seems to keep me much clearer minded and I need less of it to work for my attention and focus. Today, I mostly use the spray. I did try a few shots a couple of weeks ago and they felt a bit different. I'm convinced there is two separate areas of the body being affected based on the method of administration. In my opinion, the two therapies should be evaluated as individual therapies so you can see which (or which combination) works best for your child's individual need. Some will do wonderfully with the spray alone, some the shots alone, some with both, and some with neither. It's up to us and our doctors to figure out what works best for our children. - Stan Ps. There is some medical literature that explains how nasal spray cobalamin is as effective as dosing with IV (intravenous). Very interesting information. > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine > > --------------------------------- > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 11/13/16 Dr. Neubrander spoke about a Nasal Spray / Shot Study that he conducted over the last few months. I've summarized it in this post: Products Sub-Q Shots 64.5 mg/kg at 25mg/ml Nasal Spray – 1250mg MB12 AND 300mg Folinic Acid (1 spray) Subjects: 100 using methyl-B12 shots alone. 10 using nasal spray alone. 37 using nasal spray with every 3 day shots. 8 using nasal spray with every 2 day shots. 36 using nasal spray with daily shots. Definitions: Positive: " undeniable " change over baseline. Neutral: no change noted. Negative: " intolerable " side effects requiring discontinuation of the treatment. Set 1: The Spray Alone (10 people) 60% - Positive 20% - Negative 20% - Neutral Set 2: The Spray on Top of the high dose daily shots protocol (people who are already responding to daily doses of MB12) 44% Positive 25% Negative 31% Neutral Set 3: The Spray on top of the shots every third day protocol (people who are already responding to the lower dose of every three days). 32% Positive 46% Negative 22% Neutral ------- This study was a very important initial study. There are two variables of this study that are not controlled particularly well this time around. First, the spray is given with folinic, and a certain about of people (possibly 20%) have negative responses to folinic acid, so it's hard to see what part of the negative responses were because of that verses the delivery method. Second, most of this study was conducted by putting the spray on top of the shots rather than a side-by-side study. What we learn from doing it this way is either some of the children were under dosing with sub-q injections or possibly (and my current theory) that the spray affects a different set of organs and possibly a different place in the metabolism In summary, there are more studies coming out on the nasal spray (one with Jill , another hopefully with Dr. Neubrander and I) and we have much more to learn. I believe that the spray works on some people when the shots do not, and at times, helps provide greater improvements on top of the shots. In the Think Tank we discussed that the Olfactory nerve in the nose is probably the pathway of getting it so quickly to the brain. This seems to be good for some children, but the bolus dose the nose can also provide may be too much for other people and those people may be better off on sub-q shots. For example, I had severe symptoms of both IBS and ADHD. For me both the shots or the spray work very well. The shots seem to help my liver and gut a little bit more than the spray, but the spray seems to keep me much clearer minded and I need less of it to work for my attention and focus. Today, I mostly use the spray. I did try a few shots a couple of weeks ago and they felt a bit different. I'm convinced there is two separate areas of the body being affected based on the method of administration. In my opinion, the two therapies should be evaluated as individual therapies so you can see which (or which combination) works best for your child's individual need. Some will do wonderfully with the spray alone, some the shots alone, some with both, and some with neither. It's up to us and our doctors to figure out what works best for our children. - Stan Ps. There is some medical literature that explains how nasal spray cobalamin is as effective as dosing with IV (intravenous). Very interesting information. > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine > > --------------------------------- > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Wow, forget the date on the last post. It should read 4.11.06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Wow, forget the date on the last post. It should read 4.11.06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Sorry, I missed that part of your question. I've never used TD-MB12 and few doctors do. I know that Dr. Levinson does and he swears by it, but I've not come across any parent posts of " Wow! " I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I don't have a lot of evidence that it does just yet. I suspect that some folks need MB12 so bad that any administration might help, but if you want to target the brain, the spray might do better than TD, and if you want to target the liver the sub-q shots might do better than TD.... Staying positive about it, I would do a few trials with different administration methods and see what works for your child. Studies may help to make decisions, but until you try you really won't know what will work for your specific child. - Stan > > > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine > > > > --------------------------------- > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Sorry, I missed that part of your question. I've never used TD-MB12 and few doctors do. I know that Dr. Levinson does and he swears by it, but I've not come across any parent posts of " Wow! " I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I don't have a lot of evidence that it does just yet. I suspect that some folks need MB12 so bad that any administration might help, but if you want to target the brain, the spray might do better than TD, and if you want to target the liver the sub-q shots might do better than TD.... Staying positive about it, I would do a few trials with different administration methods and see what works for your child. Studies may help to make decisions, but until you try you really won't know what will work for your specific child. - Stan > > > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine > > > > --------------------------------- > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I agree and you've been terrific.Stan Kurtz <kurtzstan@...> wrote: Sorry, I missed that part of your question.I've never used TD-MB12 and few doctors do. I know that Dr. Levinson does and he swears by it, but I've not come across any parent posts of "Wow!"I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I don't have a lot of evidence that it does just yet. I suspect that some folks need MB12 so bad that any administration might help, but if you want to target the brain, the spray might do better than TD, and if you want to target the liver the sub-q shots might do better than TD....Staying positive about it, I would do a few trials with different administration methods and see what works for your child. Studies may help to make decisions, but until you try you really won't know what will work for your specific child.- Stan> >> > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine> > > > ---------------------------------> > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.> >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I agree and you've been terrific.Stan Kurtz <kurtzstan@...> wrote: Sorry, I missed that part of your question.I've never used TD-MB12 and few doctors do. I know that Dr. Levinson does and he swears by it, but I've not come across any parent posts of "Wow!"I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I don't have a lot of evidence that it does just yet. I suspect that some folks need MB12 so bad that any administration might help, but if you want to target the brain, the spray might do better than TD, and if you want to target the liver the sub-q shots might do better than TD....Staying positive about it, I would do a few trials with different administration methods and see what works for your child. Studies may help to make decisions, but until you try you really won't know what will work for your specific child.- Stan> >> > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine> > > > ---------------------------------> > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.> >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Maurine, A mom just posted about this at autism treatment. If I'm remembering correctly, oral worked well for daughter, nasal a bit less well, but TD was a wow. You could onibasu if you're interested in the post (I'm pretty sure that mom isn't on this list, but if she is maybe she'll respond to you here too). Anita > > > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine > > > > --------------------------------- > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Maurine, A mom just posted about this at autism treatment. If I'm remembering correctly, oral worked well for daughter, nasal a bit less well, but TD was a wow. You could onibasu if you're interested in the post (I'm pretty sure that mom isn't on this list, but if she is maybe she'll respond to you here too). Anita > > > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine > > > > --------------------------------- > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 We do both the shots and the nasal spray, and saw increased results when we added the spray. More alertness, eye contact, longer phrases. nice things. Kerrie In a message dated 4/13/2006 1:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maurine_meleck@... writes: can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 We do both the shots and the nasal spray, and saw increased results when we added the spray. More alertness, eye contact, longer phrases. nice things. Kerrie In a message dated 4/13/2006 1:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maurine_meleck@... writes: can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 We do both the shots and the nasal spray, and saw increased results when we added the spray. More alertness, eye contact, longer phrases. nice things. Kerrie In a message dated 4/13/2006 1:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maurine_meleck@... writes: can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. maurine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Oral and TD worked well? You don't hear that very often. I'd be very interested in reading the post if you can grab a copy. - Stan > > > > > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you > know it works for > > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and > switched to TD MB12, > > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. > maurine > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Oral and TD worked well? You don't hear that very often. I'd be very interested in reading the post if you can grab a copy. - Stan > > > > > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you > know it works for > > you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and > switched to TD MB12, > > but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this website. > maurine > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Stan, It is post # 169026 at autism mercury. She didn't give many details, but you could ask for some. Anita > > Oral and TD worked well? You don't hear that very often. I'd be very interested in reading > the post if you can grab a copy. > > - Stan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > > low rates. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Stan, It is post # 169026 at autism mercury. She didn't give many details, but you could ask for some. Anita > > Oral and TD worked well? You don't hear that very often. I'd be very interested in reading > the post if you can grab a copy. > > - Stan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > > low rates. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 We've been so focused on Valtrex lately, it's nice to hear some MB12 Nasal Spray stories as well. - Stan > > > > > > We do both the shots and the nasal spray, and saw increased results when we > added the spray. More alertness, eye contact, longer phrases. nice things. > > Kerrie > > In a message dated 4/13/2006 1:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > maurine_meleck@... writes: > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works > for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and > switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this > website. maurine > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 We've been so focused on Valtrex lately, it's nice to hear some MB12 Nasal Spray stories as well. - Stan > > > > > > We do both the shots and the nasal spray, and saw increased results when we > added the spray. More alertness, eye contact, longer phrases. nice things. > > Kerrie > > In a message dated 4/13/2006 1:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > maurine_meleck@... writes: > > can somebody tell me any studies done on nasal MB12 or how you know it works > for you. I had to stop the shots-grandson would't let me do them and > switched to TD MB12, but it probably does nothing. thanks. i am new to this > website. maurine > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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