Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Please, no one is trying to attack you here. When you state so many things in one post, some things will out-weigh others in the readers mind. Some things will be questioned by different readers. If you want to get replies to specifics, I suggest that you make one statement at a time. In this way, those that have something to say about that topic, can, and without straying too far from the point you are making. Just a suggestion. I live by the " family values." "Do what you want to do." "Say what you want to say." "Be who you want to be." "Play how you want to play." This is a very loving and understanding group. We don't mean anything to be taken personally. Love, Eat well, sleep well, be well! Rath <kdrath@...> wrote: what cure? who has been cured of anything?--- Jackie on wrote:> I think that we need to really study anything> possible and integrate ALL forms of medicine, THAT> would give us all the BEST chance to cure many> diseases.. but getting both sides of the debate to> come together is where the hurdle is,, allopathic> docs are taught that eastern meds are funky,, and> eastern docs are taught the same thing about> allopathy... THERE IS good and bad in both,, if we> could come together, get rid of the bad with both,,> we'd be years ahead of where we are now,, its just> so sad that we cant accomplish this,, but I DO,, in> my heart of hearts believe its because of the money> involved in allpathy,, there is really no LONG term> money in cure,, only in diagnosis and treatment...> just my 2 cents here,, not trying to start a> disagreement,, > > Rath wrote: If the> medicine works why would it matter if the> prescription is through a Chinese person or a non> Chinese person? If there was a study of Western> medicine and it was prescribed by a Chinese doctor> why> would it change the results if it was a properly> conducted study? There should be methods and> calculations that should be reproduced by others> besides the Chinese doctors. If not than how do you> expect them to be given by non Chinese doctors in> the> future? > You are using my words and twisting them Chris- I> said> clearly that there are many western medicines that> are> not suitable etc. and I am not defending them. I am> simply saying that each side has problems. No a> person> doesn't have to take herbs but in many places if> they> decide to they cost a lot of money. No someone> doesn't> have to take Western medicine but if they decide to> they cost a lot of money. I already made this> point..yes its a choice that may be unattainable to> many people. If its about planting beautiful things> with beautiful people why are they so expensive? Of> course it may be okay that they are but you are> defending them for the same reasons that back up the> defense of Wester n drugs. > that's the point as well- you are in China. Many of> us> are in America and we can't easily get onto a plane> and fly to china. We have to take what we have how> we> have it and this is what I can talk about b/c this> is> the reality. Are you going to blame this on the> govt.> as well? You never actually responded to my real> points, you only fabricated what I said so this> doesn't need to go on with us, I just wanted to pose> another side b/c you keep talking about herbs and> laughing at any opposition but this makes me want to> show the other side. I am not trying to convince you> so I don't really have the energy to be attacked for> just wanting to speak for the other side as well. > > --- Hunter wrote:> > > ! My point was that if you are studying the> > effectiveness of "Chinese" Medicines, shouldn't at> > least one of the doctors prescribing the medicines> > be Chinese? I know that there are pleanty of> > herbalists in America. Some of them may even know> > what they are doing. I've been talking about MY> > treatment. I'm in China. I see a Chinese doctor> > who has spent years studying which herbs work well> > together, and where the best herbs are grown, and> > which things need to be changes as the patient's> > body absorbs different amounts of each herb. This> > study was a joke! They gave every person the> exact> > same quantities of the same herbs, or a placebo.> and> > the time froma was too short. ( In this case a> good> > thing, because improper use of herbs can be> > hazardous) How is that medicine? No inteligent,> > caring herbalist would have dreamed that this> study> > would have possitive results.> > "It's a business just like FDA approved drugs." > > Sure it is... in America. Here it is a tradition,> > like it used to be in America before the AMA and> big> > drug companies pushed it aside.> > This statement really gets me! "they can> > charge what they want and there is nothing anyone> > can do about it." No one is telling every> patient> > with HCV that they have only one hope, and that> hope> > is an herb that costs $1500 per month and has the> > possibility of causing suicidal depression. No> one> > tells anyone that their only hope is to buy herbs.> > > Of course people have a choice! They don't have> to> > buy. HCV sufferers are at the mercy of the drug> > companies. Do you think the FDA, or any other> > Federal agency would see the injustice and act to> > reduce the cost of treatment. No. This would> take> > money from the folks at big pharma who elected> them.> > Even though millions of tax dollars went into the> > developement of Interferon, and a thousand other> > drugs to fight everything from pink eye to> cervical> > cancer. Please don't tell me about how the FDA is> > helping Americans. The FDA approved drug to fight> > Avian Flu, Tamiflu, has cause the death of more> than> > one person who used it as> > directed. It's still on the market.> > Man, I gotta go to bed.> > Good luck with the FDA!> > Chris> > > > Rath wrote:> > Your claim about not seeing a chineese persons> > name in> > the study is silly. First of all there are many> > studies that show some minorities are more at risk> > for> > depression etc. b/c of ill treatment and unfairly> > they> > don't have the resources to buffer this. OFten,> the> > people conducting the study are not of the> minority> > that they are studying and are we to reject the> > claims> > and not try to impliment sources for the people> > being> > studied because there wasn't one of the minority> > person conducting the study? Many herb companies> > make> > millions on their product - many herbalists make a> > lot> > of money and they have never conducted research to> > back up their claims. They make money as well and> > they> > don't have to sift through the red tape to get it> > done. they can charge what they want and there is> > nothing anyone can do about it. It's a business> just> > like fda approved medicines...I am not claiming> that> > all herbalist and chinese doctors are scammers but> I> > can tell you that there are people with good and> bad> > intentions on every side.> > > > --- anne wrote:> > > > > LOL! I just *knew* wouldn't be able to let> > > that post pass! Great, well thought out reply> > there> > > > > > anne> > > I consider myself> > > proof that herbal remedies DO help hepatitis C> > > sufferers> > > > > > > > > MAJOR CAVEATS:> > > 1. Chinese Herbals are individual specific> > > formulations. (the mixture I take changes almost> > > every time I get blood work drawn.)> > > 2. This study used "processed" herbs in pill or> > > capsule form. NOT FRESH> > > 3. Chinese Herbals are slow acting, and require> > > two to three months use to accumulate in the> body.> > > 4. Herbal treatments should be administered by> > > trained and knowledgeable practitioners> > > Opinion: This study was designed to prove that> > > herbals don't help. I looked at the abstract> that> > > is sited in this story. Here are the names of> the> > > medical participants. (Mrudula Jakkula, MD, MS;> > > Tacey A. Boucher, PhD; Ulrich Beyendorff, Lic> Ac,> === message truncated ===__________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Hi , my grandson, Devyn, has scoliosis and is currently being casted(in his 3rd one). My daughter's, Rochelle, internet is not working right now and I sent her a copy of your note to her work. She asked me to send this information along to you. Mom can you please email the group back and tell them that the more the spine rotates regardless of the curve it will cause the ribs to stick out and look deformed. Devyn's was really bad before the casting. It all has to do with the RVAD and rotation of the spine. Devyn was just over a year old when he was diagnosed. Hope this helps and gives you a bit more information to work with. Shara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Hi , my grandson, Devyn, has scoliosis and is currently being casted(in his 3rd one). My daughter's, Rochelle, internet is not working right now and I sent her a copy of your note to her work. She asked me to send this information along to you. Mom can you please email the group back and tell them that the more the spine rotates regardless of the curve it will cause the ribs to stick out and look deformed. Devyn's was really bad before the casting. It all has to do with the RVAD and rotation of the spine. Devyn was just over a year old when he was diagnosed. Hope this helps and gives you a bit more information to work with. Shara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Hi , my grandson, Devyn, has scoliosis and is currently being casted(in his 3rd one). My daughter's, Rochelle, internet is not working right now and I sent her a copy of your note to her work. She asked me to send this information along to you. Mom can you please email the group back and tell them that the more the spine rotates regardless of the curve it will cause the ribs to stick out and look deformed. Devyn's was really bad before the casting. It all has to do with the RVAD and rotation of the spine. Devyn was just over a year old when he was diagnosed. Hope this helps and gives you a bit more information to work with. Shara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Thanks for the info Shara. I was very suspicious that the spine rotation might be the cause more so than the curve. Like I said, looking at the curve it doesn't appear any worse. Of course, I realize I might just not be seeing it. But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD measurement or another measurement? I believe his RVAD was fairly low...5 degrees. The doctor murmered to himself something about a 4 degree change when he was looking at his RVAD at the last appt. I don't know whether he was referring to the change in his scoliosis from 16 degrees to 20 degrees or if he meant that his RVAD had also increased 4 degrees. I know it was 5 degrees though at his first appt. and he had some mild rib cage protrusion then, but it has gotten worse. RE: DYLAN Hi , my grandson, Devyn, has scoliosis and is currently being casted(in his 3rd one). My daughter's, Rochelle, internet is not working right now and I sent her a copy of your note to her work. She asked me to send this information along to you. Mom can you please email the group back and tell them that the more the spine rotates regardless of the curve it will cause the ribs to stick out and look deformed. Devyn's was really bad before the casting. It all has to do with the RVAD and rotation of the spine. Devyn was just over a year old when he was diagnosed. Hope this helps and gives you a bit more information to work with. Shara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/myseoulchild/?action=view & current=IMG_353\ 0.jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/myseoulchild/?action=view & current=IMG_353\ 0.jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Sandi, They don't actually have a set way of measuring it. They just eyeball it based on the appearance of the pedicles. Ian's was measured at 45 degrees, but some docs also measure it on a scale of 0 to +4. If you scroll down on this link to just under the diagram that shows how they measure the cobb angle, you can see the scale from 0 to +4. Noelle (12-2-01) Ian (8-15-04) Re: RE: DYLAN Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/myseoulchild/?action=view & current=IMG_353\ 0.jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Sandi, They don't actually have a set way of measuring it. They just eyeball it based on the appearance of the pedicles. Ian's was measured at 45 degrees, but some docs also measure it on a scale of 0 to +4. If you scroll down on this link to just under the diagram that shows how they measure the cobb angle, you can see the scale from 0 to +4. Noelle (12-2-01) Ian (8-15-04) Re: RE: DYLAN Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/myseoulchild/?action=view & current=IMG_353\ 0.jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Thanks for sharing....Dylan has a little bit of that on his back, but what I was referring to is actually on the front of his chest. I don't have any good pictures of it though. I will take one tonight and send it out to the group. Re: RE: DYLAN Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobuc ket.com/albums/ v697/myseoulchil d/?action= view & current= IMG_3530. jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Thanks for sharing....Dylan has a little bit of that on his back, but what I was referring to is actually on the front of his chest. I don't have any good pictures of it though. I will take one tonight and send it out to the group. Re: RE: DYLAN Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobuc ket.com/albums/ v697/myseoulchil d/?action= view & current= IMG_3530. jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Ooops, here is the link that I was referring to: http://www.rad.washington.edu/mskbook/scoliosis.html Noelle (12-2-01) Ian (8-15-04) Re: RE: DYLAN Here's Jack the day of Miss Mehta's evaluation. You can strongly see his hollowing here and protrusion on the other side. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/myseoulchild/?action=view & current=IMG_353\ 0.jpg You're right - it is about the rotation. I'm not sure how they measure it - we've never gotten a number. The RVAD is the rib vertebral angle deference (if I spelled that right). The ribs go into the spine at a right angle - totally perpendicular. In scoliosis, they are often angled. The larger the RVAD number, the greater the angle, the more likely it is to be progressive scoliosis (and the sooner you need early treatment and likely serial casting). Sandi ( & Jack) >But I was thinking that the rib cage sticking out might have to do more > with the rotation. How do they measure the rotation? Is that the RVAD > measurement or another measurement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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