helpless

[Guest guest]

Anybody feel like their kids have a general problem

with knowing how to do everyday common things to take

care of themselves. Things even that aren't directly

related to OCD fears. Like I've never shown my ds how

to start a new roll of TP (when it's all stuck). I

probly would have if I thought he would actually watch

and learn but I think I don't think he would so I've

just gotten used to doing those kind of things so he

doesn't have to. Is it enabling or spoiling.

I guess they are kind of the same and I've probly

answered my own question. Obviously I've enabled him

to not learn it.

He would just be so helpless if on his own all the

sudden. Is it because he's a doted on only child or

because he's a 14 y/o silly guy or because he has OCD?

[Guest guest]

Lynelle,

you have very eloquently summed up my feelings at the moment.

I've been feeling like tearing my hair out-(my own OCD? LOL) that my son can't

seem to do the simplest things by himself either-

and like your son, mine's an only child too-

thanks for the unknowing validation of my feelings...

Have a great day.

Kerri

[Guest guest]

Yes. I've never been able to figure out if it's ocd related or

not. A lot of regular things that my child should know how to do

just by having seen others,he does not know how to do. It seems

like he has to accually be taught how to do everything. He won't

just try it. It seems that he's gotten behind in it all because we

haven't taken the time to teach it, but it seems to take everything

he's got to keep up with what he has to do(school, personal

hygeine). I've always thought that when his ocd got better we could

catch up on those things. After four years we relize that we better

squeeze it in some how because he may not get better. In

, Lynnelle <lynnovale@...> wrote:

>

> Anybody feel like their kids have a general problem

> with knowing how to do everyday common things to take

> care of themselves. Things even that aren't directly

> related to OCD fears. Like I've never shown my ds how

> to start a new roll of TP (when it's all stuck). I

> probly would have if I thought he would actually watch

> and learn but I think I don't think he would so I've

> just gotten used to doing those kind of things so he

> doesn't have to. Is it enabling or spoiling.

>

> I guess they are kind of the same and I've probly

> answered my own question. Obviously I've enabled him

> to not learn it.

>

> He would just be so helpless if on his own all the

> sudden. Is it because he's a doted on only child or

> because he's a 14 y/o silly guy or because he has OCD?

>

[Guest guest]

This answer is " yes " for me with , but I put that down to his

Aspergers Syndrome.

He needs to be told/shown exactly what to do. Here are some

excerpts from an article on AS that seem to fit with . He

has improved in some areas over the years, but I'll include what has

fit/does fit. In some examples (like the fight below), I could

definitely see that as 's response if he was in the same

situation, the " inertia " the article talks about. I also think this

could apply to kids with Nonverbal Learning Disorder (NLD).

(remember this is excerpts so won't flow too smoothly)

With the cooking example below - well, is a straight A

student, good at facts/memory. But give him a 4-step (or so)

microwave meal to cook and he could just stare at the instructions

and not " get it " as to how to start or something. But if I told him

each step, he'd do each step by my instruction. (he's better in

this area now too)

I think once a routine is down/learned, he does fine. But throw in

something new with the routine, it could throw him off (the decision

making problem)

*************

(from article by T. Lynn, M.A., M.P.A., L.M.H.C.)

....telling his teachers what he needs and he tends to be passive in

the face of their criticism. He cringes at his PE teacher's verbal

abuse and does not report it. In a social setting, he is rarely the

first one to initiate a social contact and needs to see someone else

doing it first.

Inertia may interfere with the performance of ordinary tasks at

home. One of my teenage AS clients has a great enjoyment of cooking,

but he has great difficulty maintaining the sense of flow and

sequences required to put together a recipe. He often

totally " spaces out. " At these times, he told me, his body slows

almost to stopping and he will stare at the recipe as if he is

waiting for it to somehow come to him.

One Asperger's boy I worked with was badly beaten up by several

teenage muggers at a bus stop at night because, though he was

proficient in Karate, he was not able to initiate the attack and

carry it through in a setting different from where he was

trained. " Go ahead. You initiate, " he said to one of his muggers who

proceeded to beat the stuffing out of him. It did not occur to him

that the only way he could prevail in the situation was to close in

and attack aggressively once it was clear that he was gravely

threatened. And it did not occur to him that he was not encountering

the other kids in the safety of his dojo, under the supervision of

his teacher. His inability to initiate action was complicated by his

inability to have a practical or adaptive response to the kids

threatening him.

This lack of ability to initiate activity probably relates to the

fact that Asperger's kids may be deeply apraxic when it comes to

affective, cognitive, and behavioral tasks. That is they do not

automatically visualize what movements look like, what conversation

with others might sound like, or generally what will happen in the

future. Having no way of seeing the potential future, the child

cannot plan his present action and so does nothing.

He does not know why he cannot accomplish things and will seem

bewildered when you ask him about it. Because of his learning

differences everything in his life is frustrating to him and he is

getting nothing but failure experience.

For example, Asperger's children may become very proficient in the

martial arts, but they usually have to be shown every move that is

possible and have to physically rehearse every move. (Including

their response to situations on the street—training which would have

helped the child described above.) To learn how to play baseball,

the child has to be taken physically through each position on the

field and be coached through the movements of the player of that

position much the way you would coach someone who is learning a

dance. Once the child learns the feel of a movement, he may become

splendid at its enactment, but the training process can take a long

time.

One of the most powerful causes for inertia is the feeling of the

Asperger's child that some task is so vast and complex that he can't

possibly accomplish it. To overcome this barrier, teach him how to

factor any problem into two decisions. He makes one of those

decisions and then factors the next part of the issue into two more

decisions, and makes one of these decisions until the job is done.

If you want to get him to clean up his room, have him first make two

piles. One pile is for things that stay. One pile is for throwaways.

When he's down to the pile for things that stay, divide it into one

pile for clothes and one pile for electronic parts. When this is

done, take each pile in turn. In the electronic parts pile, put all

parts that pertain to current projects on one shelf and all parts

from past projects on another, and so forth. He needs a very

concrete way to work from the whole to the parts. It's easier to get

going on things if he deliberately uses the " yes/no, " " zero/one, "

language of binary code to break the problem into manageable chunks.

>

> Anybody feel like their kids have a general problem

> with knowing how to do everyday common things to take

> care of themselves. Things even that aren't directly

> related to OCD fears. Like I've never shown my ds how

> to start a new roll of TP (when it's all stuck). I

> probly would have if I thought he would actually watch

> and learn but I think I don't think he would so I've

> just gotten used to doing those kind of things so he

> doesn't have to. Is it enabling or spoiling.

>

> I guess they are kind of the same and I've probly

> answered my own question. Obviously I've enabled him

> to not learn it.

>

> He would just be so helpless if on his own all the

> sudden. Is it because he's a doted on only child or

> because he's a 14 y/o silly guy or because he has OCD?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing that - I think this is a big fear a lot of us have..

Although, luckily my oldest daughter (now 23) transitioned to adulthood

exceedingly well, I have fears my son will not be as successful. Maybe it's

because

he's a boy? I could so totally agree with that post - everything - laundry,

etc. We're slowly pushing more and more independence and hopefully over the

next four years we'll get there, but I still have a lot of reservations.

In a message dated 4/12/2006 6:50:10 PM Central Standard Time,

lynnovale@... writes:

With permission I'm copying (below) a post from a mom

on the 'parents of adult sufferers' site that I

thought everybody with the " helpless kids " problem

might want to see.

____

[Guest guest]

With permission I'm copying (below) a post from a mom

on the 'parents of adult sufferers' site that I

thought everybody with the " helpless kids " problem

might want to see.

____

Listen to your maternal instincts. From what I've

seen in my 20yr old daughter with ocd since age 13,

and read on this site, I would say most ocd kids

struggle with immaturity issues, especially in the

areas of social interaction and taking care of

themselves. I would just do evrything for my daughter,

such as cut her meat , make her

sandwhich and do her laundry beccause it was easier

than trying to teach her to do it because she would

become upset and tantrum. Little did I realize it was

ocd rearing its ugly head. It was the summer

before she left for college that I realized she did

not have a clue on how to do the skills needed to

survive. We got to college she had a total melt down

because she could not open her mail box, she was

overwhelmed by my trying to teach her how to use her

debit card,and she cried hysterically when we tried to

leave, I finally forced her into the meeting area.

Well she got really sick, thought it was an asthma

attack, I think little asthma an really bad ocd/panic

ended up calling the medical folks for help because

she couldnt breath,they sent an ambulance,she refused

to go to the hospital and she called her psychologist

who called me and told me to go get her, I would

explore a local county college for the first year, and

take the time to have you teach her one basic skill at

a time, ie refilling her own meds, making her own

doctor appointments, let her doing all the talking

during appointments, unless she is missing a major

concern, teaching her how to do laundry, banking and

debit card skills and how to keep a check book, and

any kitchen skills she may be lacking, and teach her

how to advocate for herself at college. ALso start

college slowly no more than 12 credits or less if

possible. You're not wrong on the immaturity part Im

sure because Ive been there.

Hang in there! After two years at county college she

is doing much better, and can do all the above, but it

took alot of work on her and her erp therapist and

alot of patience on my part.

[Guest guest]

" I would just do evrything for my daughter,

such as cut her meat , make her

sandwhich and do her laundry beccause it was easier

than trying to teach her to do it because she would

become upset and tantrum. Little did I realize it was

ocd rearing its ugly head " .

Thank you so much for that, I make Chris's sandwiches, because if he does it and

it gets a small hole or is not right then he throws it out and will try again

until he gets angrier and angrier, I tend to do it all, as it is easier than

going through the anger if it is not right.... Am only new to all this OCD and

am learning so much from this group... I never even realsied it could have

something to do with OCD just always thought it was him being lazy.... and he

knew if he got upset I would do it, (even though it was a different type of

upset). If I make his egg on toast, I have to cut it else he wont eat it.... etc

Thanks for an amazing group, makes me feel like my boy is not alone after all

Jaxx (New Zealand)