concern

[Guest guest]

To answer your question, I know that the " feel " of closeness the

group once had was partially destroyed over a year or so ago by the

trolls from Aspergian Island and AFF which I had to ban for their

obnoxious behavior. Later on we had another group of trolls which

almost finished the job.

Now we all appear to be present and accounted for, but no longer snug

and tight fitting.

Tom

Administrator

I would like to know if anyone else here feels a concern that I feel.

Recently, Tom stated that " the compassionate people have all left

this group. "

Tom, do you really regard each and every person remaining in this

group (including yourself, Raven, and each of those who responded

compassionately to Raven) as devoid of compassion?

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tom, for the information. However, your answer doesn't answer

my question.

When you stay that " all the compassionate people " have left a group,

this means (to me) that the group now contains no compassionate

people.

To me, this looks like either an intentional or an unintentional derogation

/a/ of the people now in the group and

/b/ of any compassionate efforts/comments they make here and/or elsewhere.

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

I am sure Tom doesn't mean that all of the compasionate people left.

He is refering to a time before you were a member of the group, where

things ran much more harmonously. Then we were invaded by trolls and

a lot of not so nice things happened. I believe you are looking for

problems where there are none. You have a bad habit of starting

trouble, or looking to start trouble. I have noticed this from the

first time you posted. You didn't look at Tom's post and think well

maybe I could be a little more compasionate, maybe I could improve

and help people a little more, you looked at it and found the

negatives and made them glaring. This is what he is refering too.

Not to many people find the postives anymore or work towards them.

In addition you mail keeps coming to this group as spam, I would

assume it is because of the advertisments (which I have asked you to

remove), that you insist upon placing on your posts.

Try taking a look internally at why you see everything negatively and

maybe then you will understand a little better.

Beth

>

> Thanks, Tom, for the information. However, your answer doesn't

answer

> my question.

>

> When you stay that " all the compassionate people " have left a group,

> this means (to me) that the group now contains no compassionate

> people.

>

> To me, this looks like either an intentional or an unintentional

derogation

>

> /a/ of the people now in the group and

>

> /b/ of any compassionate efforts/comments they make here and/or

elsewhere.

>

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

[Guest guest]

I've changed something on my computer — does the ad still show up on

this message when you receive it? (It doesn't show up on mine.)

I didn't " look for problems " in Tom's message — the problem (as I saw

it) hit me right in the face: I couldn't NOT " look at " it.

(Well, I for one admit that I have had too many bad experiences

with people stating as fact that " all people " — or " all of " a

particular group of people — do this or do that.)

I'll take your word, though, that (regardless of Tom's actual words)

he didn't actually " mean that all the compassionate people left "

because his statement related to his own prior experiences.

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

Yo couldn't NOT " look at " Tom's post but you were able to gloss over

mine that addressed this very topic? My post -- which was directly

after your first post regarding this topic -- explained what has

happened not only in this forum with regards to trolls, but gave you

some history on a previous forum Admin who passed away prematurely

just over a year ago.

Kate, I have to agree with Beth that you appear to be looking for

problems where none exist.

Raven

>

> I've changed something on my computer — does the ad still show up

on

> this message when you receive it? (It doesn't show up on mine.)

>

> I didn't " look for problems " in Tom's message — the problem (as I

saw

> it) hit me right in the face: I couldn't NOT " look at " it.

> (Well, I for one admit that I have had too many bad experiences

> with people stating as fact that " all people " — or " all of " a

> particular group of people — do this or do that.)

>

> I'll take your word, though, that (regardless of Tom's actual

words)

> he didn't actually " mean that all the compassionate people left "

> because his statement related to his own prior experiences.

>

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

[Guest guest]

If Raven says that no insult exists, then certainly I will take her

word for that.

Some things, I indeed " can't not look at " . Other things (that other

people might assume a person would see & react to just as strongly) I

don't see — or don't fully understand the purport or purpose of — no

matter how strongly anyone else that I " should " have seen, that I

" must " have known, that I " had to " have understood. Have others here

had experiences like that?

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

Kate Gladstone wrote:

> If Raven says that no insult exists, then certainly I will take her

> word for that.

>

> Some things, I indeed " can't not look at " . Other things (that other

> people might assume a person would see & react to just as strongly) I

> don't see — or don't fully understand the purport or purpose of — no

> matter how strongly anyone else that I " should " have seen, that I

> " must " have known, that I " had to " have understood. Have others here

> had experiences like that?

Certainly. It's called being on the Aspergers spectrum.

Ace

[Guest guest]

It's just frustration on my part. I was once part of an online group

that felt good to everyone involved in it. We were excited to go

online and communicate with whoenver happened to be posting there at

the momment. Then the trolls came.

When I made this and the other FAM groups, the goal was to see if I

could recapture the feel of the old group I belonged to. It worked

for a while, but then things reverted to the sort of atmosphere that

destroyed the other group.

We are starting to recover now though, I think.

Tom

Administrator

Re: Re: concern

Thanks, Tom, for the information. However, your answer doesn't answer

my question.

When you stay that " all the compassionate people " have left a group,

this means (to me) that the group now contains no compassionate

people.

To me, this looks like either an intentional or an unintentional

derogation

/a/ of the people now in the group and

/b/ of any compassionate efforts/comments they make here and/or

elsewhere.

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

environmental1st2003 wrote:

>

>

> It's just frustration on my part. I was once part of an online group

> that felt good to everyone involved in it. We were excited to go

> online and communicate with whoenver happened to be posting there at

> the momment. Then the trolls came.

>

> When I made this and the other FAM groups, the goal was to see if I

> could recapture the feel of the old group I belonged to. It worked

> for a while, but then things reverted to the sort of atmosphere that

> destroyed the other group.

>

> We are starting to recover now though, I think.

Tom, I think you are putting far too much blame on trolls. This action

that you are blaming on trolls is a very common and normal way of being

for many on the As Spectrum. It is only natural and should be expected

that some of this will happen on an AS group.

Ace

[Guest guest]

Wrong Ace.

There was a Secret Society before there was an FAM Secret Society.

www.aspergia.com was the message board where I first learned about

AS. There was once an old Easy Board format before Edan switched to

Delphi. On the EZ Board format, everyone was tight knit. On the

Delphi format, we had a bunch of trolls join and they screwed

everything up. Me and a bunch of other people grouped together and

petitioned Edan to revamp the board in order to get rid of the

trolls.

Edan banned a couple, but by then there were too many trolls and he

shut down the boards completely. So I started the FAM family of

forums and the peaceful folks came here. But they were driven off by

more trolls, and, as their private e-mails to me attest, they thought

I was too lax with them.

By the time I did kick off the trolls, it was too late.

Tom

Administrator

Tom, I think you are putting far too much blame on trolls. This action

that you are blaming on trolls is a very common and normal way of

being for many on the As Spectrum. It is only natural and should be

expected that some of this will happen on an AS group.

Ace

[Guest guest]

Hi Ace,

I have to agree with Tom on this, I joined this group while some of

this activity went on, I read the old boards I have seen trolling

behavior and aspie behavior. The true aspies are not trolls, and you

can tell by the way they behave whether they are trying to insite

problems and act trollish, or whether it is just communication

problems.

Tom hand picked his administration, and has trained us on how certain

behaviors are to be delt with so we can pick out the trolls. The big

difference is aspies want to get along with other aspies, aspies want

to help other aspies, where as trolls only want to make trouble and

destroy things. Curently I can tell you personally there are two

people in this forum I keep an eye on because I believe they are

trolls not true aspies wanting what this forum is designed for only

set on destruction, (Tom has convinced me to give them a chance) So I

am giving them chances to change there behavior and show that they

are not here for negative reasons, but they keep showing there true

colors no matter what I do to try to help them. An aspie will or try

to learn to change negative behaviors, a troll only changes there

negative aspects or the way they attack.

I do see a lot of aspie children in my real life, and being mean

spirited, personally attacking people, and harrasment are not aspie

traits they are troll traits.

Beth

>

> Tom, I think you are putting far too much blame on trolls. This

action

> that you are blaming on trolls is a very common and normal way of

> being for many on the As Spectrum. It is only natural and should be

> expected that some of this will happen on an AS group.

>

> Ace

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/8/2006 12:39:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, handwritingrepair@... writes:

Beth, Tom, and all - in your experienced opinions, can it happen thata person who has learned meanness, who has learned habits of behavingbadly, etc. also happens to have AS?

AS is not a guarantee of saintly behavior. We mostly have the good on here, but I'm sure there are just as many bad people with AS as good.

[Guest guest]

Thanks to Beth for sharing what Tom has shared with her on AS and trolls.

Beth, Tom, and all - in your experienced opinions, can it happen that

a person who has learned meanness, who has learned habits of behaving

badly, etc. also happens to have AS?

Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone -

<advertising removed by moderator>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to Beth for sharing what Tom has shared with her on AS and trolls.

Beth, Tom, and all - in your experienced opinions, can it happen that

a person who has learned meanness, who has learned habits of behaving

badly, etc. also happens to have AS?

Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone -

<advertising removed by moderator>

[Guest guest]

>>

> " Beth, Tom, and all - in your experienced opinions, can it happen that

> a person who has learned meanness, who has learned habits of behaving

> badly, etc. also happens to have AS? "

Sure. Everyone has different personalities. There are nice people who

are AS and not-so-nice people, and nice people who are non-AS and not-

so-nice people.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I understand that, but do we want someone here that is mean and behaves badly and destroys the group and hurts other people just to make themselves feel better. Or do we want to make this group helpful and comfortable and a place to go and be accepted. We can't have both, because one type of person only wants or if not wants to there actions destroy any good that is created. So in effect, we could have aspie trolls, but being aspie doesn't excuse trollish behavior, or behaving badly. We are all in control of our own behavior and the rules of the group are clearly posted, if one doesn't want to follow the rules I don't thing our members should have to put up with someone behaving childishly, just because they say they don't know any better. I don't believe anyone should be abused for any reason, purposely or by accidents. As administrators we warn people about there behavior and try to talk to them and reason with them before

inflicting any disipline. Bethmikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: >> >"Beth, Tom, and all - in your experienced opinions, can it happen that> a person who has learned meanness, who has learned habits of behaving> badly, etc. also happens to have AS?"Sure.

Everyone has different personalities. There are nice people who are AS and not-so-nice people, and nice people who are non-AS and not-so-nice people.> >

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

>

> " I understand that, but do we want someone here that is mean and

behaves badly and destroys the group and hurts other people just to

make themselves feel better. "

No. My favorite bumper sticker, though a little crude, is: Mean

People Suck. I always thought we should be encouraging to others even

when we're having a hard time--not take our problems out on others

because they have their own. But maybe some are hurt and confused and

don't know how to act or don't know how they appear, or don't have

the proper social techniques--ones that we have developed and so take

them for granted, or because of AS may appear that they're being mean

when they're not. I don't know. Sometimes people act up because

they're crying out for help and can't bring themselves to ask for

help and support directly or they've built up such a thick wall they

can't let it come down for fear. But it is hard on others who are the

recepients of these who, because of AS, are sensitive. I thought I

was sensitive but I see that many other Aspies are more sensitive

than me. I know I react badly to what I consider mean or bullying but

someone else doesn't see it that way, and vice versa. So how do you

help the hurt ones without also hurting the others, especially if

most are trying hard to be encouraging and supportive. Shouldn't the

hurt ones try just as hard? Maybe they are--their effort is great but

to us it doesn't look that way? And how do you determine who is

trolling if they play with words or are clever? I see that forums are

hard to protect from trolls, especially if they are hard to

recognize, but then because of bad experiences we may think someone

is a troll when they are not.

[Guest guest]

At 03:21 PM 8/8/2006, wrote:

.... snip... how do you

determine who is

trolling if they play with words or are clever? I see that forums are

hard to protect from trolls, especially if they are hard to

recognize, but then because of bad experiences we may think someone

is a troll when they are not.

Exactly the point I was thinking about bringing up, " Trolling is in

the eyes of the beholder! " Just because you don't agree with

someone's point of view doesn't make them a troll. People generally

have a reason for their POV and if you at least make an honest effort to

understand their reasoning it will give you insight into why they behave

the way they do.

I saw an article on a Schizoid Personality Disorder board (if you act

like an Aspie but aren't on the Autism Spectrum you are likely to have

SPD) that relates group motivation to personal (psychoanalytical)

motivation that some may find interesting...

PSYCHOANALYSIS, TERRORISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM

Human Nature Review - USA

Ender

[Guest guest]

The answer to your question is that people who have learned meanness

can indeed be AS, but it is also true that people can unlearn what they

have learned.

Tom

Administrator

Beth, Tom, and all - in your experienced opinions, can it happen that

a person who has learned meanness, who has learned habits of behaving

badly, etc. also happens to have AS?

Yours for better letters, Kate Gladstone -

<advertising removed by moderator>

[Guest guest]

This is why I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and to give

people second chances.

Tom

Administrator

Sometimes people act up because they're crying out for help and can't

bring themselves to ask for help and support directly or they've built

up such a thick wall they can't let it come down for fear. But it is

hard on others who are the recepients of these who, because of AS, are

sensitive.

[Guest guest]

Ender said...

" Just because you don't agree with someone's point of view doesn't make

them a troll. People generally have a reason for their POV and if you

at least make an honest effort to understand their reasoning it will

give you insight into why they behave the way they do. "

This is true, and a good point to remember. However, some of the folks

who were trolling here came from other boards for the specific purpose

of undermining FAM. This is not paranoia, but fact. I have been in

chats under other user names and have read others plotting how they

could mess up my boards.

These folks were ones that towed the line here. In other words, they

were trollish enough to make this place unappealing to newcomers, but

not bad enough to get kicked out. I kicked them out anyway, and now

people do feel a bit safer here. At least, according to the e-mails I

have received.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

someone keep on posting of needed ABA help abroad, but also changing the

countrys and citys.Just odd to me????

Anyone else getting these?