Re: Re: Misdiagnosis - possibly bipolar

[Guest guest]

Tamara - I know it's frustrating and scary right now for you. BUT - don't

be so quick to accept a bipolar scenario. There are side effects with SSRIs

and that could possibly be all your son is having. My son started with Prozac

also as the first medication. Did fine on the lower dose, but when we tried

to up it - he had a horrible, horrible reaction - very aggressive episode

that was totally out of character. We were actually watching for bipolar type

symptoms since there is a family history (my oldest, now 23, is bipolar) and

there is the possibility that an SSRI can trigger a manic episode. In my

son's case, it was blatantly clear - this was not a bipolar trigger, but a true

negative reaction to Prozac. Before the final explosive/aggressive episode

he started with symptoms similar to what you describe.

He was weaned off of Prozac and switched to Zoloft. He's had a WONDERFUL

response to this medication.

I guess what I'm saying - don't automatically jump to the conclusion that

your son is doomed. There are dozens of different medication combinations out

there - unfortunately, it is extremely rare to hit the perfect fit the first

time around.

As for your bipolar thoughts - My daughter is 23 now and I posted her story

a few months back - although the adolescent years were a true nightmare, she

is now a productive member of society, owns her own home and business at the

young age of 23 and has a son. She does not take medication as she does not

like the effects. She has a good support system and knows when to reel

herself in. As far as drug/alcohol issues - these were NEVER issues for her -

I

remember thinking in my most darkest moments of dealing with her that I only

wished that we were possibly dealing with drugs - as we'd know what the heck

we were treating.

I guess my point is - while it's good to research and know POSSIBILITIES,

don't be so quick to assume this is what's happening in your particular case.

Chances are your son is having a negative (could be temporary?) reaction to

ONE medication. This is not uncommon. I would caution, however, not to

abruptly withdraw the Prozac without appropriate monitoring/guidance. That

could

have worse effects than what you're seeing right now.

Good luck to you.

In a message dated 5/13/2006 10:23:36 AM Central Standard Time,

tamara_naranjo@... writes:

I feel really sad for my son because a bipolar diagnosis with the ocd and

trichotililomania means he will struggle even more in life. I read that 20%

of people who are bipolar commit suicide and that they are likely to have

problems with drugs and alcohol.

[Guest guest]

I am so sad right now and disapointed in the quality of care my son has

received. He was diagnosed 3 weeks ago with OCD and given prozac. Right

away he was agitated and had a hard time controlling his behavior. Two

weeks later, the psychiatrist said he should double the dose again and come

back in a month. Immed. after that appt. my son became extremely anxious

and panicked at the idea of going to school. He later mentioned feeling

dizzy when he moved his head quickly. That night he had the sound of a fire

alarm in his head. I didn't give him a pill the next morning and I called

the doctors office first thing. Meanwhile, my son had the sound of a drill

in his head, then a jack hammer. The psychiatrist is only there one day a

week and it was 5:30 PM before someone called me back. He told me that the

doctor agreed that the small dose of prozac wouldn't cause my son's

symptoms. He said that if I wasn't against his continuing on the prozac

that they recommend reducing his dose then ramping up more slowly. He said

my son had no reason to stay home from school and that the next available

appt. to discuss taking another medication wasn't for 2 weeks.

Yesterday afternoon my own therapist recognized my son's symptoms and

reaction to the prozac as consistant with someone who is bipolar with ocd

tendencies. She said that any amount of an SSRI antidepressant can cause

bipolar people to switch to a manic state, in my son's case, an anxious,

agitated manic state. She advised me to let him to stay home from school

and to allow him to miss next week's state exams.

I feel really sad for my son because a bipolar diagnosis with the ocd and

trichotililomania means he will struggle even more in life. I read that 20%

of people who are bipolar commit suicide and that they are likely to have

problems with drugs and alcohol.

There are atleast 2 positive things, however. The first is that finding out

what's really going on means that we will be able to get him the meds and

therapy that will help him. The second is that we live in MA and have

access to Mass General Hospital, which is supposed to have great programs

for children. I won't waste any more time taking him to doctors that don't

have the experience or time to diagnose him correctly.

Tamara in MA

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nchaotic and for your replies. Nchoatic, it was encouraging to

hear about your daughter doing so well. I am concerned that my son may be

bipolar, but I am not convinced of it, and I will definetly wait for the

experts to evaluate him. I didn't give the complete picture in my previous

e-mail. My therapist listened to my family history filled with depression

and anxiety as well as aspergers, and she asked a lot of questions about my

son to get a more complete picture. The psychiatrist seemed to take my

son's bland answers at face value and didn't probe deeper. There's

apparently something about the type of images that my son sees and the

racing thoughts and tangential thinking as well as his reaction to the SSRI

that suggests that he might be bipolar. My son has also insisted that there

is something wrong with him other than the OCD thinking, but he hasn't been

able to put it in words. His OCD symptoms also just seem different than the

descriptions I read in these e-mails. His bothersome thoughts don't focus

on any particular fear or subject. He describes constant voices/thoughts

telling him that he is stupid and ugly and different from everyone else and

he envisions horrible things like hitting me in the head with a rock, which

makes him feel awful. I'm not aware of any compulsions. I've been meaning

to ask if anyone else in this group has a child with similar kinds of

thoughts. This group has been a really great resource during this

difficult time.

Tamara in MA

>From: " " <@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Misdiagnosis - possibly bipolar

>Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 16:03:35 -0000

>

>Hi Tamara,

>I'll second that about not jumping to assume bipolar. Really, meds

>can cause reactions and some people are more sensitive to them or

>certain ones. Another SSRI might work wonderfully and not have any

>side effects.

>

>Over the years, I've read so many descriptions of changes in behavior

>and/or emotions due to SSRI and other meds. True, sometimes bipolar

>or tics are triggered but sometimes the reactions are just side

>effects or behavioral side effects (BSE's).

>

>Many people/kids have to trial more than one SSRI to find one that

>works well for them due to unwanted side effects.

>

>I know of one adult with OCD who has told her story of trying Prozac

>and - don't recall the details, but it didn't work well for her. But

>she again tried it but used the liquid Prozac and had to really go up

>slow. Worked great for her OCD and she's been on it for years, says

>she can't foresee every going off it since it has worked so well.

>(though I'm sure she's switched from the liquid by now)

>

>So - just saying be aware of the signs for bipolar definitely and

>that this *might* be it, but also aware that it might not be. (gee,

>that really helps, doesn't it? LOL)

>

>Is it going to take a few too many days for his effects to go away,

>even reducing the dose, for him to take the tests you think?

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I am so sad right now and disapointed in the quality of care my son

>has

> > received. He was diagnosed 3 weeks ago with OCD and given prozac.

>Right

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

T Naranjo <tamara_naranjo@...> wrote:I won't waste any more time taking

him to doctors that don't

have the experience or time to diagnose him correctly.

Don't waste your time!!!!!! I did the same thing for 9 and a half years with

my daughter!!!

hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

I wanted to jump in here and say that my daughter had a huge increase in

anxiety when she started Prozac last year. We weren't sure whether to

tough it out or try a new med. We decided to wait until the 6-8 week

mark and her anxiety just dissolved. No more obsessive thoughts, no

anxiety, just a regular happy girl. That lasted a year. She has had a

return of the thoughts in the past several weeks and we are increasing

her Prozac by 10 mgs. She is definitely having a lot more trouble

(missed school Friday), but we will wait the 6-8 weeks again and regroup

if her anxiety is still high. Sometimes the increased anxiety is

indicative of a medication that will work well. The unfortunate thing

is the WAITING. Of course if he's suffering terribly, you have to try

something else. I'm so sorry this is happening. We can all relate to

the unfairness, confusion and uncertainty of it all.

Dina

[Guest guest]

I can see hanging in there through increased anxiety and agitation, but what

about dizziness? The doctor said reducing the dose and ramping up more

slowly would allow his body to get accustomed to the prozac, but dizziness

isn't something you can live with, unless reducing the dose would make it

stop. I'm very cautious about meds that cause dizziness because I once took

prozac for depression and a few dizzy spells turned into vertigo.

What about hearing the sounds fire alarms, drills and jack hammers - has

anyone else had experience with this side effect? Unless reducing the dose

lessened or eliminated the sounds, my son couldn't tolerate that side

effect.

Tamara

>From: Dina <dina.n.jones@...>

>I wanted to jump in here and say that my daughter had a huge increase in

>anxiety when she started Prozac last year.

[Guest guest]

Tamara,

Is he still dizzy and hearing the noises? If he is, than I would bring him to

the ER for that. (That could be labyrinthitis, and has absolutely nothing to do

with the prozac) I had that once and it was horrible. They can check him out, at

least to make sure it's not a medical problem.

hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/15/2006 5:13:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tamara_naranjo@... writes:

.. I'm very cautious about meds that cause dizziness because I once took

prozac for depression and a few dizzy spells turned into vertigo.

Tamara -

Did you share this information with your son's doctor? Have you asked any

of the doctors on this board about the symptoms/side effects your son seems to

be having & if they could be related to Prozac? You might want to do that.

Have you asked your pharmacist about all this? That might be a good idea

too.

LT

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/15/2006 12:53:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jchabot@... writes:

There are no brain scans or tests out yet for the public, to accurately

diagnose any of these disorders. It's all hypothises at this point!

Going crazy here trying to figure this out myself(LOL)

Hugs

Judy

Have you ever heard of Brain Matters that is located in California and

Denver, Colorado?

Dr. Phil thinks they are just WONDERFUL and sends all his clients to them.

They claim they can see sections in the brain that show up on the scan if they

have certain disorders.

Sheree

[Guest guest]

Skbradfield@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/15/2006 2:45:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> lynnovale@... writes:

>

> The doctors on the other site have said many times

> that when starting a new SSRI the anxiety can increase

> initially and that this can sometimes indicate the

> medication will eventually be a good match.

>

>

> But my question is.. AT what point do you say... OK this medication

> isn't

> working because we keep hearing this but 6 to 8 weeks go by and he

> just gets

> WORSE.

>

> Sheree

If 10-12 weeks have gone by and he's at a therapeutic dose, I'd try

something else, but I'm not a Dr.

Dina

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/17/2006 12:05:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Skbradfield@... writes:

There are no brain scans or tests out yet for the public, to accurately

diagnose any of these disorders. It's all hypothises at this point!

Judy -

This thread is too long to sift back through them all, so I'm not sure which

disorders you're referring to here.... but on the back cover of the book

" Brain Lock " , there is a picture of a brain scan of a 'normal' brain and an

'OCD' brain & there is a definite difference.

LT

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/17/2006 12:07:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Skbradfield@... writes:

But my question is.. AT what point do you say... OK this medication isn't

working because we keep hearing this but 6 to 8 weeks go by and he just gets

WORSE.

Your doctor should know approximately how long it will take to see any

benefit from the drug. I still feel everyone reacts slightly differently to

things, so I think it's a " give 'er take " situation on that timeframe. If your

doctor said 6-8 weeks & you're not PAST 8 weeks and he's worse, that would be

enough proof for me to pull my kid off. But, that's just my thoughts.

LT

[Guest guest]

Judy,

My insurance is paying for my son to go. We had to get his primary Dr. to

right a prescription saying he could have had some possible head trauma. They

used a suction on my son when he was born and I was just concerned that

something could have happened when he was being delivered that could have

affected

his brain. The Dr signed off and they are paying for it. We are going to the

one in Denver, Co. We called Brain Matters and they helped us to get what we

needed.

Sheree

[Guest guest]

could not pinpoint if the child had either autism , schizophrenia, or

bipolar(for example). They could only show which part of the brain was

mis-firing.

According to Brain Matters they can tell from the scan if he has any of

these things.

Sheree

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I told Brain Matters the same thing and sent them infro on what some web

sites said about scanning the brain and they said what they did wasn't the same

as the articles and they went on to explain it to me. As you can see I didn't

totally understand it. HA

I know Dr. Phil thinks highly of them.

Sheree

[Guest guest]

I've heard about something done by a Dr. Amen. You'll find something if you

google it.

kimz

Re: Re: Misdiagnosis - possibly bipolar

In a message dated 5/15/2006 12:53:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

jchabot@... writes:

There are no brain scans or tests out yet for the public, to accurately

diagnose any of these disorders. It's all hypothises at this point!

Going crazy here trying to figure this out myself(LOL)

Hugs

Judy

Have you ever heard of Brain Matters that is located in California and

Denver, Colorado?

Dr. Phil thinks they are just WONDERFUL and sends all his clients to them.

They claim they can see sections in the brain that show up on the scan if

they

have certain disorders.

Sheree

[Guest guest]

Skbradfield@... wrote:Have you ever heard of Brain Matters that is located

in California and

Denver, Colorado?

Dr. Phil thinks they are just WONDERFUL and sends all his clients to them.

They claim they can see sections in the brain that show up on the scan if they

have certain disorders.

I actually did see that show, and I wish to god I could get my dd there!!!!

By the time I got my kid in there, she'd be 20 yrs old.!!! Too bad we all

couldn't go on Dr. Phil !

Hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

If I recall, while watching that show on Dr. Phil, those scans could diagnose a

mental disorder showing areas of the brain which are affected, but could not

pinpoint if the child had either autism , schizophrenia, or bipolar(for

example). They could only show which part of the brain was mis-firing.

hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

I have been through this so many times with my daughter. She has had every MRI,

pet scan, etc out there. I used to demand the doctors to perform them on my dd.

I used to think they could diagnose by that also, and I used to argue with the

doctors.

Yes, a scan with a child with ocd, or bipolar, or autism, schizophrenia, etc,

etc, will look different from a " normal " brain,and will miss- fire , and show

red areas, or green when they should be yellow, but it will not diagnose "

exactly " which disorder the child has.It will only show the child or adult has a

mental disorder. They can't distinguish between ocd or tourettes because they

are in the same area.In the books it may show a brain of a person with ocd, but

they can't look at that scan and at someone else's scan with a different

disorder and diagnose with it yet. They haven't come that far yet.

hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I am just going by what Brain Matters told me. I am interested to see what

they say. They claim that by looking at certain areas of the brain they can

tell what type of issues they are having such as OCD , Bipolar etc. I don't

know

what to expect??

Sheree

[Guest guest]

Sheree,

I've heard up to 12 weeks. I'm sorry I don't remember

what your child's symptoms are though.

Only you can decide whether it is worth waiting it

out. There are no definite answers with meds. They

all effect everyone differently.

--- Skbradfield@... wrote:

---------------------------------

In a message dated 5/15/2006 2:45:36 P.M. Eastern

Standard Time,

lynnovale@... writes:

The doctors on the other site have said many times

that when starting a new SSRI the anxiety can

increase

initially and that this can sometimes indicate the

medication will eventually be a good match.

But my question is.. AT what point do you say... OK

this medication isn't

working because we keep hearing this but 6 to 8 weeks

go by and he just gets

WORSE.

Sheree

[Guest guest]

Sheree,

That is awesome!!!

Hopefully they can help you. Have you been having a problem with your son

being misdiagnosed?

hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

Your kidding??!!!!

I wasn't aware they could do that? I saw the show, and have mentioned it to

several doctors. I have been having extreme difficulties getting my dd

diagnosed.All of these doctors have told me they still cannot diagnose with the

brain scan.She has had several scans and the doctor said all they can do is

outrule any organic disorders.

OMG, if there is amyway they can, I HAVE to get my dd in. She has been on 22

different meds, and has had 17 different medical diagnosis combinations.

Please give me some more info!!!!!

hugs

Judy

[Guest guest]

_Click here: Brain SPECT Imaging_ (http://www.brainmattersinc.com/) This is

there web site. See what you think. If you type in Brain Matters Dr. Phil

there are other articles to read. Judy, I hope this helps. Like I said I am

having a TERRIBLE time with my son so I am willing to try just about anything

right now!

Sheree

[Guest guest]

Sheree,

How far away from there are you? How long did it take to get in?

If they " really " can diagnose with these scans, I will fly out there with my

dd. I have been going through the wringer trying to get her help ,especially the

correct diagnosis. We know she has OCD, it's just a matter of , what else is

with it.

Judy