Re: 504's

February 15, 2006

Dina -

My opinion -

I would tend to agree in having a 504 in place for middle school. This

grade level is a major change from elementary. She will have many teachers and

different personalities to deal with. There isn't as much " personalized

attention. " Teacher's treat students differently (expect more maturity).

There

isn't a lot of " coddling " going on. Unfortunately, my son spent middle school

in a haze... It was two wasted years because dealing with a problem each time

it crops up takes time because of the number of players involved (multiple

subject teachers, other staff, etc). Middle school provokes anxiety in the

normal, average every-day student, but add in OCD and the change can be really

overwhelming.

In a message dated 2/15/2006 2:52:55 PM Central Standard Time,

dina.n.jones@... writes:

I just think it's putting the cart before the horse. What do

you all think?

February 15, 2006

Dina -

I think hit is right on the head - it's mainly the middle school

personnell that is going to be the biggest challenge. Middle school teachers

have

many more students and they really don't have as much time to get to know

each individual student as might be the case in elementary school. Hopefully,

you will get lucky and you'll find at least one or two " keepers " that will be

helpful.

You can probably just put something basic into place - I would suggest extra

time for projects, assignments IF NEEDED, extra time for tests IF NEEDED,

depending on your daughter's anticipated anxiety level - sometimes a " emergency

pass " that she can use a prearranged signal with the teacher to use and go

some place safe if she begins to feel overwhelmed. Remember, a lot of social

issues will also take place in middle school and I can tell you with two girls

- there's a lot of girl drama that might come into play. Just some things

to think about. At least if it's in place - you can tweak it as needed

without having to start from scratch, which could take quite a bit of time. If

it

turns out she doesn't need it - then great, but it'll be kind of a safetly

net just in case.

In a message dated 2/15/2006 3:51:07 PM Central Standard Time,

@... writes:

about how hard the

middle school is, at least in dealing with the personnel!

February 15, 2006

Dina,

We don't have a 504 plan ('s in 3rd grade) but I will also

consider it before she enters middle school. I know this will be a

huge transtition and from what I've heard from others on this list, a

504 can take months to get into place. It is better to have it there

ahead of time so you're not struggling to get it put together during a

crisis time, if such a time happens. It's a safety net just in case.

I'm sure others here can help with suggestions on what to put into the

plan, it must be hard when there's nothing happening at the moment.

The school should be able to help you as well, since they are the ones

who suggested it; they must have done this before in situations

similar to yours. I would guess that for now it would be a

generalized plan, then you can add specific accomodations later on.

nna.

NY

>

> I know I asked this question before, but I can't remember the answer

> and I can't seem to find anything very easily in the files. A bit

> computer illiterate, I guess.

>

> My daughter, Mikayla, had severe OCD, was hospitalized, couldn't go to

> school, etc. in 2nd grade. She had difficulty in 3rd with anxiety

> attacks at school, but made it through with minimal disruption or days

> missed. At the end of 4th grade, she had a waxing episode that was

> debilitating and we switched her meds. She has been wonderful ever

> since and is have a fantastic 5th grade year--hasn't missed a day, no

> anxiety. Both the principal and her teacher have said that she should

> have a 504 in place before middle school next year, " just in case. "

> They said it's very hard to work with the personnel because they don't

> know the students as well, yada yada. Can't really remember them

> coming up with a specific reason. So, do I go through all of this

> this spring when she needs ZERO accommodations? What is the point? I

> would have no idea what issues may crop up--attendance, tardiness,

> schoolwork if she has anxiety--but I'd only be guessing at this point.

> What if she never needs a 504? My opinion has been to deal with it

> if I need to, when I need to. Their opinion is : Better get it in

> place now! We have a great pdoc and pediatrician who's kids both go

> to the same school district we do. They would be quick in helping

> with letters, calls, whatever we need if the situation warrants it. I

> am not opposed to her teachers knowing that something is wrong with

> her--it's in her file anyway because I wrote it up on her medical

> form. I just think it's putting the cart before the horse. What do

> you all think?

>

> Thanks!

> Dina

>

February 15, 2006

Hi Dina,

I know middle school can be a huge adjustment for some kids. And I

don't know about other elementary schools vs middle schools in other

areas, but here in elementary school you bascially have 1 class,

maybe 2; so some kids get a bit of switching classes. But middle

school comes up and there's a whole slew of new students you don't

know, 4 new teachers (we have 4 classes/semester) and finding your

room for each class, homework was much, much more....

So that might be something your dd's elementary school is thinking

and worrying about not having a Plan in place, just in case.

But, like you, I don't see how she can get one now without needing

any accommodations. Now - 's 504 was set up when he needed

them. And is now being kept in place " just in case " since OCD can

wax/wane, but he hasn't used them in quite a while, since 8th grade

maybe. He's in 11th grade now. So for us it was easy to get it

when he had to have one, and easy to keep in place to use if

needed. I just don't know how a person gets one if it's " not yet "

needed.

But if the elementary school is willing to put a Plan together, and

then it can transfer over and be used on an " if needed " basis, then

you might want to go for it.

Sounds like the elementary school must know a bit about how hard the

middle school is, at least in dealing with the personnel!

had an IEP when he began middle school, for speech services,

that transferred over from elementary school. The IEP ran out (he

graduated from speech) and OCD hit.

Just some quick thoughts. Our middle school WAS hard to deal with

sometimes. High school is much better!

>

> I know I asked this question before, but I can't remember the

answer

> and I can't seem to find anything very easily in the files. A bit

> computer illiterate, I guess.

>

> My daughter, Mikayla, had severe OCD, was hospitalized, couldn't

go to

> school, etc. in 2nd grade. She had difficulty in 3rd with anxiety

> attacks at school, but made it through with minimal disruption or

days

> missed. At the end of 4th grade, she had a waxing episode that was

> debilitating and we switched her meds. She has been wonderful ever

> since and is have a fantastic 5th grade year--hasn't missed a day,

no

> anxiety. Both the principal and her teacher have said that she

should

> have a 504 in place before middle school next year, " just in case. "

> They said it's very hard to work with the personnel because they

don't

> know the students as well, yada yada. Can't really remember them

> coming up with a specific reason. So, do I go through all of this

> this spring when she needs ZERO accommodations? What is the

point? I

> would have no idea what issues may crop up--attendance, tardiness,

> schoolwork if she has anxiety--but I'd only be guessing at this

point.

> What if she never needs a 504? My opinion has been to deal with

it

> if I need to, when I need to. Their opinion is : Better get it in

> place now! We have a great pdoc and pediatrician who's kids both

go

> to the same school district we do. They would be quick in helping

> with letters, calls, whatever we need if the situation warrants

it. I

> am not opposed to her teachers knowing that something is wrong with

> her--it's in her file anyway because I wrote it up on her medical

> form. I just think it's putting the cart before the horse. What

do

> you all think?

>

> Thanks!

> Dina

>

February 15, 2006

Hi Dina,

I know middle school can be a huge adjustment for some kids. And I

don't know about other elementary schools vs middle schools in other

areas, but here in elementary school you bascially have 1 class,

maybe 2; so some kids get a bit of switching classes. But middle

school comes up and there's a whole slew of new students you don't

know, 4 new teachers (we have 4 classes/semester) and finding your

room for each class, homework was much, much more....

So that might be something your dd's elementary school is thinking

and worrying about not having a Plan in place, just in case.

But, like you, I don't see how she can get one now without needing

any accommodations. Now - 's 504 was set up when he needed

them. And is now being kept in place " just in case " since OCD can

wax/wane, but he hasn't used them in quite a while, since 8th grade

maybe. He's in 11th grade now. So for us it was easy to get it

when he had to have one, and easy to keep in place to use if

needed. I just don't know how a person gets one if it's " not yet "

needed.

But if the elementary school is willing to put a Plan together, and

then it can transfer over and be used on an " if needed " basis, then

you might want to go for it.

Sounds like the elementary school must know a bit about how hard the

middle school is, at least in dealing with the personnel!

had an IEP when he began middle school, for speech services,

that transferred over from elementary school. The IEP ran out (he

graduated from speech) and OCD hit.

Just some quick thoughts. Our middle school WAS hard to deal with

sometimes. High school is much better!

>

> I know I asked this question before, but I can't remember the

answer

> and I can't seem to find anything very easily in the files. A bit

> computer illiterate, I guess.

>

> My daughter, Mikayla, had severe OCD, was hospitalized, couldn't

go to

> school, etc. in 2nd grade. She had difficulty in 3rd with anxiety

> attacks at school, but made it through with minimal disruption or

days

> missed. At the end of 4th grade, she had a waxing episode that was

> debilitating and we switched her meds. She has been wonderful ever

> since and is have a fantastic 5th grade year--hasn't missed a day,

no

> anxiety. Both the principal and her teacher have said that she

should

> have a 504 in place before middle school next year, " just in case. "

> They said it's very hard to work with the personnel because they

don't

> know the students as well, yada yada. Can't really remember them

> coming up with a specific reason. So, do I go through all of this

> this spring when she needs ZERO accommodations? What is the

point? I

> would have no idea what issues may crop up--attendance, tardiness,

> schoolwork if she has anxiety--but I'd only be guessing at this

point.

> What if she never needs a 504? My opinion has been to deal with

it

> if I need to, when I need to. Their opinion is : Better get it in

> place now! We have a great pdoc and pediatrician who's kids both

go

> to the same school district we do. They would be quick in helping

> with letters, calls, whatever we need if the situation warrants

it. I

> am not opposed to her teachers knowing that something is wrong with

> her--it's in her file anyway because I wrote it up on her medical

> form. I just think it's putting the cart before the horse. What

do

> you all think?

>

> Thanks!

> Dina

>

February 15, 2006

In a message dated 2/15/2006 2:32:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

writes:

Both the principal and her teacher have said that she should

have a 504 in place before middle school next year, " just in case. "

It's a good idea because it can be a long process. We needed documentation

from the pdoc and a meeting with a fairly large committee of people. At

least if it is in place, it is easier to modify when needed. Put some of the

basics that might have been needed in the past.

Suzanne

February 16, 2006

Hi Dina, if your dd never needs the 504, then great. It's not really

putting the cart before the horse, just having the cart ready to roll on a

moment's notice so to speak. That has been the case with my dd (IEP)

through fifth and sixth grade. It's just " there " , the teachers have to fill

out a progress report quarterly (the only goals in her IEP have to do with

organization skills and coming to class prepared--books, homework due, etc.)

But if your child does end up needing accommodations, having the 504 there

and ready to be modified and put into effect immediately can be a blessing.

My advice is to make your best guesses as to accommodations she may need,

based on issues in the past, and then basically forget that you have the 504

until/unless it's needed. If it is needed, at that time you can quickly

make any unforeseen changes needed, and it's good to go.

BTW, middle school has been much better than grade school for my dd (12). I

found middle school counselors and teachers much more " up " on anxiety

disorders, and accommodations in general, they don't challenge every little

thing or ask me to basically " prove " that my child has anxiety, rather than

that she has problem behaviors that need consequencing. More kids are dxed

with whatever at middle school ages, my child is not such a rare duck

anymore. Middle school is more get up and change classes--more physical

movement--very helpful for my child. There are more opportunities to duck

into the restroom and tic without getting some adult to agree to it. Also,

she's no longer expected to sit for hours sometimes, with one teacher who

may provoke symptoms or cause anxiety, or who has had a bellyful of my

child's twisting and fidgeting and is irritable with her. Even she can

handle a " harder " teacher for 53 minutes.

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " dina_n_jones " <dina.n.jones@...>

>I know I asked this question before, but I can't remember the answer