Requiring sounds with signs

[Guest guest]

I was under the impression at the conference in Ohio that you would not require

the child to say the itme as they signed. In the tapes it showed the tutors

saying the item name as the child signed. Somewhat similar to how you do PECS.

i.e.

Child signs movie

Tutor says movie

If the child does echo it you would provide a higher level of reinforcement to

encourage the echo!

This was my impression.

Jenn

[Guest guest]

,

I am glad you have asked these questions because I too am in the same

situation.

What we have done so far is:

We chose 5 of my son's mastered signs and we are now requiring vocalizations.

It goes something like this

What do you want?

Child signs chip.

Say " IP "

Child says " IP "

We say " Chip " as we are delivering the reinforcer into his mouth.

We are using the sound " IP " because it is a mastered echoic.

I too would like to hear what others are doing. I have not been able to find

the correct procedure in the S/P book.

Carole

[Guest guest]

We have been using PECs cards for requesting for several weeks. After

attending the Dallas Carbone conference we are going to try requesting with

signs. With the PECs cards he has begun requesting two items spontaneously.

When he requests we accept the card from him and show him the requested item

and wait for a vocalization (any sound) before giving him the item. He does

vocalize consistently, typically within 1-3 seconds of seeing the requested

item. We are not trying to shape the sounds yet.

The S & P book does not mention requiring vocalization with the sign? Is

anyone on the list requiring vocalizations with the sign when the child

requests/mands? If so, what is your procedure? If not, then how will you

get the child to begin transitioning from " signs only " to using sounds to

request/mand? Our son's non-verbal imitation skills are progressing rapidly

but he's not quite ready to begin a verbal imitation program.

-Dave (Noah's Dad, 3.2yo nonverbal)

davide@...

[Guest guest]

,

Sorry I am so slow on responding to your question. Hopefully, I can shed

some light on the subject.

We are also teaching my son Tyler signs. When initially teaching signs, it

is not recommended that you " require " a vocalization. This is what Dr.

Carbone told us. The rational for this is because you do not want to put two

demands on the child when they are just learning to sign. (i.e., performing

the sign and the vocalization). You do, however, always say the word when

you give the child the item that they manded. This pairs the word with the

manded item. The word then is associated with the reinforcement value of the

requested item. The word eventually becomes reinforcing to hear because it

is associated with the delivery of the item. Then, a child will have a

motivation to try and say the word too. (Because the sound of the word is

associated with the reinforcement value of the item.) This is a process that

tends to work best with kids that do a lot of babbling and therefore are able

to make the individual sounds of the word. They are then quicker to start

putting the sounds together. However, the process makes the parts of the

word more motivating to try and imitate also. You may actually start to get

more babbling with the process. (We have seen an increase in more

appropriate babbling.)

All that said, I'll tell you how we have been able to combine a few steps.

Tyler is 5 1/2 and we have been doing programming since he was 2 1/2 years

old. (3 years) He has a good sound verbal imitation repertoire. For him,

attempting to say a word with no " shaping " demand is not difficult. (This is

not a large demand.) Therefore, we do " require " him to make a vocalization

attempt but have not tried to shape the words at this time.

We are continuing to run a separate verbal imitation program. We may work on

some of the sounds that are in the mand words but have avoided putting any of

the mand words in this program until they are well mastered signs. This way

he is not confused about the word being a mand or an imitation target and we

do not inadvertently decrease the reinforcement value of the word that we

create with the mand opportunities.

We now have over a hundred signs mastered. At this point we are beginning to

take some of the well mastered sign mands and putting those words in a verbal

imitation program. Now, we may shape the articulation one time when using

the word as a mand because we no longer have a " double demand " . (the sign

aspect is already strongly mastered). We have seen that now the action of

performing the sign while attempting to say the word acts as a kinesthetic

prompt which helps improve his articulation.

Hope this helps,

Tammy (TIS@...)

[Guest guest]

You might want to try " The Joy of Signing " . Does your hometown have a speech

and hearing or deaf group of any kind? Often times groups like that have

classes that are simple and inexpensive. It is difficult to learn something

that is 3-D from a book. Good luck. And you are correct, many signs are

very similar. Vicky

[Guest guest]

I am probably ordering Hyper-Sign by Mayer as I heard that was

good, but maybe picking up a simple ASL book this week at and Noble.

Have you all had luck with any particular simple books that helped the

therapists learn some signs?? We know, Eat, drink, MORE (and we don't use

it,) Help, All Done/Finished, Yes, Toilet, Cookie, Cracker and Soda. I am

concerned that the Soda one is a lot like HELP. These are some of our

issues, signs being similar and him getting really confused.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Jennie,

I just ordered HyperSign to sell through the business.

[Guest guest]

Jennie and list

A simple book of signs is Signing for Kids by Mickey Flodin. My seventh

grader got it for a second grade class in signing so it is not new. I bought

at Borders I think.