Re: When to do challenge tests

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the correction, Dr. McCandless!

I meant that it was not diagnostically useful in a formal sense.

Challenge tests can be quite useful at convincing both patients and

insurance companies mercury is an issue.

I've heard enough horror stories that came from challenge tests

(mostly DMPS injection challenges) that I do want to spread the word

far and wide they are potentially dangerous. For every challenge test

advocate who claims it is safe if done " according to the proper

protocol, " I have heard from at least one patient done exactly under

their protocol (usually under their direct personal supervision, too)

who had an adverse reaction.

In all honesty, I think the risk of adverse reaction is justified if

it convinces the patient to chelate and get well, or if it convinces

the insurance company to pay up. But the risk is pretty significant

and I do know of at least 2 deaths from DMPS challenge tests, where

the patient in question received only a single DMPS injection.

So let me stand corrected (and we probably still don't actually AGREE,

but at least we are closer) that challenge tests may be useful in

convincing the patient or insurance company to go forward with

treatment regardless of their diagnostic merit, and this may justify

substantial risk.

I still don't think they have any diagnostic utility per se, but that

is another issue.

Andy Cutler

> > > If I find a doctor to do this which lab is reliable to get

accurate

> > results?

> >

> > Doctor's Data.

> >

> > > Why is it that if there is no positive result for mercury in a

hair

> > test

> > > there still might be some?

> >

> > Mercury impairs mineral transport, which means it messes up how

much

> > mercury (a mineral) gets moved into the hair.

> >

> > >Why would a urine challenge test

> > following DMSA

> > > be any more reliable than the urine and blood tests ( and hair

> > analysis)my

> > > son has already had?

> >

> > Urine challenge tests are totally worthless and should never be

used

> > since they entail risk and cost extra money.

> >

> > >Are these labs reliable?

> >

> > Yes. Much more so than " mainstream " labs.

> >

> > >Don't they stand to benefit

> > > if they get parents of autistic children to start doing these

tests

> > so they

> > > will report results positive for metals.

> >

> > No more so than any lab benefits from running tests, or any doctor

> > benefits from making a diagnosis that requires more visits.

> >

> > > Should I use an old lock of her vs. hair from today to do a hair

> > analysis.

> >

> > Hair from today is fine.

> >

> > Andy Cutler

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

For study results go to messages/govinfo the

best study to start with is the federal TLC study. At the search

function type in TLC, then chemet, then lipoic all seperate searches

and read. Dr. Cutler and I have always agreed on keeping a

constant DMSA Chemet succimer supply, but since there were no studies

on the effectiveness of lipoic acid I could not buy it. Now there

are, and I have started posting the lipoic acid studies. 250 mg does

sound high to me for a 65 pound person. If your child has been

injected with thimerosal (mercury) there is no chance that it is not

in her body, why test for it? It is there. The newest federal

information is that the DMSA does not pull out the bodies needed

minerials like they thought. -- In egroups,

lcshals@a... wrote:

> Newcomer questions here...

> My 9 year old had a hair analysis last year and was found to have

high levels

> of mercury, arsenic and lead as well as some others. I've been

doing some of

> the natural forms of chelation that were recommended to me at the

time as I

> searched for a physician to do the oral chelation. Can't say I

feel

> confident with either of the doctors we have locally who do this.

The one I

> feel is more knowledgable is a cardiologist using IV almost

exclusively and

> has never dealt with a child. He does seem to be very open minded

(his whole

> office staff couldn't say enough about his willingness to consider

all

> options) and although he told me what his protocol would be for

oral

> chelation, he said he is open to looking at others. His

recommendation is

> DMSA " on " Monday, Wednesday and Friday and off the other days,

giving only

> one dose each " on " morning. After reading the messages here for

the past

> week I see that his way is just the way to make my child really

sick. Can

> anyone recommend a place where I might download information or

study results

> which would show the preferred protocol that has been in discussion

here on

> the list? I'd like to be able to show him on paper why keeping the

chelating

> agent at a constant level would be better than his protocol. Any

ideas

> about where to look for study results with ALA combined with DMSA

would be

> helpful as well. He was open to using ALA as well providing I

could bring

> him proof that it would help us. My daughter is doing extremely

well and the

> last thing I want is to send her backward.

>

> He also wants to do a 12 hour challenge test this week. He sent

me home

> with 250mg of DMSA to give her. Does this sound like the right

dosage for a

> 9 year old weighing 65 pounds? He actually had given me the option

of

> bypassing the challenge test and just beginning actual chelation.

We're

> certainly not ready for that though until we can agree on the

protocol.

>

> Has anyone had success using electrodermal testing for chelation?

We had

> been going to a great guy who helped alot with allergies and

candida, but he

> moved out of state and I haven't found another practitioner nearby

who uses

> either BEST or LISTEN system. I always wondered if EDT would have

uncovered

> anything in the heavy metal area had we stayed with the treatments.

>

> Any suggestions/ideas/answers?

>

>

> Thank you,

>

>

[Guest guest]

---He was open to using ALA as well providing I could bring

him proof that it would help us---

I don't quite understand the problem here. Anyone can pick up ALA in a

health food store and administer it themselves, so why do you need to

show your doctor proof of anything to do this if you feel it is right?

As far as your doctor not prescribing the DMSA the way you would like,

I personally would just get the prescription and then do with it what

I thought was best, rather than spending forever trying to find a

doctor who would agree with me, or who would write on the pad 'to be

taken every 4 hours' as I felt was best. A doctor is someone YOU hire,

not an omnipotent God who you should allow to run your life in ways

that you feel are dangerous. Use them for what you need, but don't let

them scare you into giving up your ability to think for yourself and

live your own life. They are just as human as the rest of us, and just

because they went to medical school doesn't mean that they can't be

wrong or make mistakes, even the really nice ones :-)

Just my 2 cents.

mrochester@...

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