Guest guest Posted January 3, 2001 Report Share Posted January 3, 2001 I assume that Dr. Bickle is talking about oral DMPS chelation? What are the chelation protocols that are used with DMPS? In the TLC studies Chemet (DMSA succimer) proved to 1.5 to 3 times safer than a placebo. Is there a safer drug than that? I have looked and can find no references for Dimoval in any of my search engines for the federal government. Where can I get more information. On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:41:31 -0000 " robert dabney " <ltldab1@...> writes: > > As I posted a couple of months ago, Dr. a Bickle completed a > Phase 3 > study for the FDA last spring on DMPS. Here is current info from her > > talk at > the ACAM meeting- I think it was in June 2000 (not 20 years old!). > > DMPS as a result of her study IS now on the Compounding Pharmacy > bulk > compound list. (It would have been fully approved, but she was > unable > to > complete the study with the full number of patients (3000) required > due to a > funding source backing out- however she did complete the study for > over 400 > patients!) > > It is safer than DMSA in the studies that were done, but there is a > PROTOCOL > to be followed. (There were NO adverse reactions in the phase 3 > study. All > reactions in the earlier part of the study were reported manditorily > > and had > to be investigated- those all involved Doctors or patients not > following the > protocol.) > > As part of her research, in showing both safety and efficacy, Dr. > Bickle was > required to investigate EVERY reported adverse reaction to DMPS > INCLUDING > those on the DMPS backfire website. Here is what she found about > those on the > DMPS backfire site (includes Ray S). (She contacted everyone on that > > site and > gathered medical data pertaining to ill effects, diagnoses, > treatment > method, > lab results etc.) What she found was that: > All of patients were treated in Finland or through a doctor in > Finland. > They were given excessive doses- up to double the recommended > amount. > They were not following a protocol (and certainly not the one > approved for > the PHASE 3 FDA study that Dr. Bickle just completed) > There was a preservative in the formula that was used of thimerisol > and > formaldehyde (Unathiol). The form currently OK'd in the US is > Dimaval. > They had a mouth full of fillings. > There was no nutritional support. > They did not have appropriate labwork done prior to or during their > treatment. > > I have a tape from her speech at the ACAM conference. > I have a copy of the Scientific Monograph that Dr. Ruprecht and > Heyltex > Corporation put together for the study. There are over 1000 > references cited > in this work. > I know Dr. Bickle personally! > > You cannot trust websites from people who are angry because they got > > sicker, > or feel they were mistreated by someone. It helps to find out the > facts > before jumping to conclusions about such matters. > > Only doctors trained in the correct usage of Dimoval are authorized > to use > it- if they don't follow the protocol it will be removed the > available list. > It's usage is tightly monitored at this point. All a person has to > do > to make > sure they are following safe guidelines in the use of DMSA is to > find > out if > the doctor took a course from Dr. Bickle or one of her research > associates > from ACAM and if they are following the protocol- just ask your > doctor for > this information! > > I hope you find this information reassuring. > > Ruth > (RN), > 's mom > > > > > > > <<Message: 15 > > Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 06:13:01 -0000 > > From: " robert dabney " <ltldab1@j...> > > Subject: Re: DMPS > > > Dr. Cutler is giving very good advice. Most doctors are at least > 10- > > 20 years behind the current information. If you make the parents > > doubtful GOOD. http://www.dmpsbackfire.com --- In > Autism->> > --- End forwarded message --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2001 Report Share Posted January 5, 2001 Actually the DMPS study was done with IV DMPS- that way it could be monitored more closely. IV DMPS is immediately absorbed into circulation as opposed to varying times and varying amounts via other routes. Also with administration via other routes, it would be possible for something else to bind with it and therefore not be as " pure " or effective as by direct injection. I was given a copy of the tape by a friend- she is looking for the tape order form from the conference- I will let the list know when I have the ordering information. , would you mind telling me where in the TLC article (I assume it is the one you posted the link for from Pediatric Research) is the validation for your statement " In the TLC studies Chemet (DMSA succimer) proved to 1.5 to 3 times safer than a placebo. " I do not see anything that remotely resembles this in the body of the article- I do see the statement on page 597 " TLC is too small a trial to establish safety. " - or in any of the tables. I do see (table pg. 597) that there were only slightly more GI and res piratory S/S in the Succimer group than the placebo, there were considerable more scalp rashes with DMSA, but an insignificant increase in rashes elsewhere in the placebo group. Sleep habits were slightly worse in the placebo group- could be related to family issues- who knows? But hyperactivity was TWICE as bad in the DMSA group. There were also twice as many reported cases of trauma in the DMSA group ( the authors say " Caution is warranted by the finding of excess hospitalization for trauma, as well as more frequent signs of trauma in the children taking Succimer. " ) But there WERE more cases of lymphadenopathy in the placebo group- no explanation how it could be related such as caused by the lead poisoning not treated, the substance in the placebo capsules or what. And on page 598 I see a graph on abnormal lab results- more abnormal values in the DMSA group on every parameter. Did I miss something? (I saw the eye doctor yesterday- found out I'm into the middle age vision problems- need reading glasses plus my contacts or else need tri-focals! Maybe I'm getting blind and can't see what's right in front of my face!) But honestly, I don't see anything in the article that says what you wrote. (I first read this article in November and have an actual copy from the Journal. I got the article out of my file and compared it to the on-line version. I do see the site you posted lists 3 additional tables- but only the first one will open- It is apparently a chart of all reported hospitalizations- I don't see anything there either other than more cases of asthma/pneumonia with the placebo, and one child taking the placebo needed surgery-most likely unrelated.) <<Message: 14 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:20:24 -0800 From: ltldab1@... Subject: DMPS Protocol I assume that Dr. Bickle is talking about oral DMPS chelation? What are the chelation protocols that are used with DMPS? In the TLC studies Chemet (DMSA succimer) proved to 1.5 to 3 times safer than a placebo. Is there a safer drug than that? I have looked and can find no references for Dimoval in any of my search engines for the federal government. Where can I get more information. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 , I think I misspelled it. It is DIMAVAL. Don't know what might be in MedLine under the trade name. I haven't done a search on it that way. Like I said, I have a monograph on it that lists over 1000 articles. You can probably order the monograph from Heyltex- the number in the front of the book is 1-800-237-6793. I got my copy from Dr. Bickle. I haven't done much research on DMPS yet (I've read a couple of articles and listened to the tape), since I think we are going to go the IV Vitamin C and glutathione route. , that article you posted made me think this again might be the best route- if some of the damage is done by mercury decreasing glutathione and ascorbate in the oxidative process and slowing this decrease ameliorates this type of damage, then increasing them via the IV route should be beneficial. Thanks for the info. Ruth, 's mom <<Message: 14 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:20:24 -0800 From: ltldab1@... Subject: DMPS Protocol I assume that Dr. Bickle is talking about oral DMPS chelation? What are the chelation protocols that are used with DMPS? In the TLC studies Chemet (DMSA succimer) proved to 1.5 to 3 times safer than a placebo. Is there a safer drug than that? I have looked and can find no references for Dimoval in any of my search engines for the federal government. Where can I get more information. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 I assume that Dr. Bickle is talking about oral DMPS chelation? What are the chelation protocols that are used with DMPS? In the TLC studies Chemet (DMSA succimer) proved to 1.5 to 3 times safer than a placebo. Is there a safer drug than that? I have looked and can find no references for Dimoval in any of my search engines for the federal government. Where can I get more information. She uses DMPS IV. She used to have a web site that was easy to find. I have the protocol that my chelation doctor uses, but I think he uses safer protocol than most doctors. We've recently done DMSA rather than DMPS. Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 After about a year with DMSA, my son did nine rounds of IV DMPS with much success. Alot more metals came out with it and we saw more rapid improvement. In fact, we didn't realize mercury was such a problem until he did DMPS. He had shown high levels of arsenic, lead and several other metals before and a little bit of mercury. Each round of DMPS showed extremely high levels of both mercury and arsenic. I would agree with though that doing oral chelation first is the best route since it is safer and doesn't release as many metals all at once so you're not as likely to shock the system. You can also do oral DMPS. Gaylen What protocol did you use? Isn't the protocol that Any suggests oral DMPS every 8 hours for some number of days, then off for some number of days??? Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 In a message dated 1/7/01 3:00:39 PM Central Standard Time, berniew1@... writes: << What protocol did you use? Isn't the protocol that Any suggests oral DMPS every 8 hours for some number of days, then off for some number of days??? >> He got 200 mg DMPS by IV shot once every four weeks. We haven't done oral DMPS. We may consider it if needed. We thought we were done with chelation but the stool test we did last month to be sure shows very high levels of arsenic and nickel so I guess he'll have to go another few rounds. The mercury seems to be out for the most part though. Gaylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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