Re: stop giving advice

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn, I'll be interested in thoughts on this too.

I asked and he said " giving advice " is different from " giving

support " .

I also saw in the book you mentioned, about DRO:

" For example, parental attention directed toward mutually pleasant

interactions and away from potentially negative interactions, as in

playing games while not commenting on OCD rituals.

Example: Playing checkers while waiting for anxiety to decrease

during E/RP. Refraining from giving advice. "

I looked up " differential reinforcement of other behavior - DRO " and

on other sites, not OCD related, I thought this interesting for

definitions/info:

*******

Other reinforcement terms:

An unconditioned reinforcer, sometimes called a primary reinforcer,

is a stimulus or situation considered to be inherently reinforcing

(such as affection, food, or opportunity for sleep).

A conditioned reinforcer, sometimes called a secondary reinforcer, is

a stimulus or situation that has acquired reinforcing power after

being paired in the animal's environment with an unconditioned

reinforcer or an earlier conditioned reinforcer (such as praise).

A generalized reinforcer is a conditioned reinforcer that has been

paired with many other reinforcers (such as money).

Differential reinforcement of incompatible behavior (DRI) is used in

reducing an already frequent behavior without punishing it by

reinforcing a specific incompatible response (like leaving a room so

that fighting with someone in it is not possible).

In differential reinforcement of other behavior (DRO), any behavior

other than some undesired behavior is reinforced.

Differential reinforcement of low response rate (DRL): a behavior is

reinforced only if it occurred infrequently. " If you ask me for a

potato chip no more than once every 10 minutes, I will give it to

you. If you ask more often, I will give you none. "

Differential reinforcement alternate behavior (DRA): the reinforcers

for the undesirable behavior are used instead for a more desirable

behavior. For example, a teacher will pay attention to students who

sit than those who walk or talk in class.

In reinforcer sampling a potentially reinforcing but unfamiliar

stimulus is presented to an animal without regard to any prior

behavior. The stimulus may then later be used more effectively in

reinforcement.

Social reinforcement involves various sorts of access to and

interaction with others.

Satiation occurs when a stimulus that had reinforced some behavior no

longer seems to do so.

*********

>

> I'm reading 'OCD in Children and Adolescents -- A

> Cognitive-Behavioral Manual' by March and Mulle.

> Turns out it is really written for therapists -- not

> parents -- so doesn't explain things much. So I'm

> wondering if anyone knows exactly what might be meant

> by the following :

>

> They say, " To get treatment started on the best

> possible footing, during the first treatment session,

> we instruct parents in two specific interventions,

> " " stop giving advice " " and differential reinforcement

> of other behavior (DRO), ...

>

> DRO (I think) means basically redirecting the child's

> attention to doing the things they can do without OCD

> problems (too much) but the " stop giving advice " thing

> I'm not sure about. Does it mean not answering

> repetitive questions or not giving advice about

> anything(!) as much as possible?

>

> Any psychologists out there or parents who were

> educated about this by the therapist cuz I wasn't. I

> was told to not answer questions over and over but I

> think this means something else.

>

> Thanks for any help,

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/18/2006 5:36:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lynnovale@... writes:

but the " stop giving advice " thing

I'm not sure about. Does it mean not answering

repetitive questions or not giving advice about

anything(!) as much as possible?

Lynn

Here's my stab at it. I do find myself trying to " help " my daughter get

through an episode of OCD when it's bad by saying " here, do it this way... try

this... do this.... " (literally grab at things in the dark just trying to find

that ONE piece of advice that will help her stop....).

I dunno... maybe that's what it means. All I do know is that it rarely

helps my daughter (mostly frustrates her AND me) and yet, I can't seem to stop

doing it -- perhaps it's the deep-rooted parental instinct of " of course *I*

know what to do.. I'm a mother...I know these things... it's my job " .

LT

[Guest guest]

Or maybe it's reminding them that they need to'fight back' - ie my son's

door-locking at night - I'm usually reminding him that he doesn't need to check

the locks, he should just go to bed etc. Maybe we're supposed to button-up and

ignore the whole ocd thing? Let the psych give the advice - we just do the

normal parenting things (like say Good night, and head up to bed ourselves?)

kimz

Re: Stop giving advice

In a message dated 3/18/2006 5:36:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lynnovale@... writes:

but the " stop giving advice " thing

I'm not sure about. Does it mean not answering

repetitive questions or not giving advice about

anything(!) as much as possible?

Lynn

Here's my stab at it. I do find myself trying to " help " my daughter get

through an episode of OCD when it's bad by saying " here, do it this way...

try

this... do this.... " (literally grab at things in the dark just trying to

find

that ONE piece of advice that will help her stop....).

I dunno... maybe that's what it means. All I do know is that it rarely

helps my daughter (mostly frustrates her AND me) and yet, I can't seem to

stop

doing it -- perhaps it's the deep-rooted parental instinct of " of course *I*

know what to do.. I'm a mother...I know these things... it's my job " .

LT

[Guest guest]

Hi, I asked Bre,(15)what she thought it meant, since she has ocd and

she said to her, it meant stop saying ocd is illogical because she

KNOWS it is. She said it doesn't help to give advice about what ocd

is. The only thing that works is exposure so she can habituate and for

me not to reassure her. Yesterday she cleaned her bathroom and last

night came into my room and said she was worried that she had inhaled

some bleach fumes. I told her that her lungs would shrivel up and she

would die. We laughed and it was over. I knew she wanted reassurance

and so did she, but I wasn't about to fuel the ocd fire or give her

advice by saying " It's just your ocd, illogical, etc " . She has had so

much therapy that whenever things come up, she just takes care of it

and moves on. I thank God for therapy!

Sandy

[Guest guest]

But what, I wonder, if they ASK for advice - which my son does, all the time.

Keeps saying " I can't get these images out of my head, what can I do? "

I wonder if we're not supposed to give advice in these situations?

kimz

Re: stop giving advice

Hi, I asked Bre,(15)what she thought it meant, since she has ocd and

she said to her, it meant stop saying ocd is illogical because she

KNOWS it is. She said it doesn't help to give advice about what ocd

is. The only thing that works is exposure so she can habituate and for

me not to reassure her. Yesterday she cleaned her bathroom and last

night came into my room and said she was worried that she had inhaled

some bleach fumes. I told her that her lungs would shrivel up and she

would die. We laughed and it was over. I knew she wanted reassurance

and so did she, but I wasn't about to fuel the ocd fire or give her

advice by saying " It's just your ocd, illogical, etc " . She has had so

much therapy that whenever things come up, she just takes care of it

and moves on. I thank God for therapy!

Sandy

Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at:

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[Guest guest]

Kim, I think if they have a therapist or have gone through therapy, I

would ask how the therapist said to handle the images. Now - if no

therapist, well, that leaves " us " parents. So I would tell

what I'd read, whether in books, online, groups, etc. So then I

would answer.

Hmmm...but if I've already told him before about this, you might just

comment to try one of the " tools " you two had discussed about this

before to sort of leave yourself uninvolved.

And I think it depends on where someone's child is with his/her OCD.

If OCD is recent/new, a family is still in the midst of finding a

therapist/doctor, etc., then they are more involved with discussion

about OCD techniques/tools. If, like with us, OCD has been around

for years, then I've already told everything I know, he's

read on it some, etc. So it's easier to disengage myself.

That first year of OCD around here and no therapist to be found, I

was pretty involved with my " advice " from reading/research, LOL!

Just thoughts!

>

> But what, I wonder, if they ASK for advice - which my son does, all

the time. Keeps saying " I can't get these images out of my head, what

can I do? "

> I wonder if we're not supposed to give advice in these situations?

> kimz

> Re: stop giving advice

>

>

> Hi, I asked Bre,(15)what she thought it meant, since she has ocd

and

> she said to her, it meant stop saying ocd is illogical because

she

> KNOWS it is. She said it doesn't help to give advice about what

ocd

> is. The only thing that works is exposure so she can habituate

and for

> me not to reassure her. Yesterday she cleaned her bathroom and

last

> night came into my room and said she was worried that she had

inhaled

> some bleach fumes. I told her that her lungs would shrivel up and

she

> would die. We laughed and it was over. I knew she wanted

reassurance

> and so did she, but I wasn't about to fuel the ocd fire or give

her

> advice by saying " It's just your ocd, illogical, etc " . She has

had so

> much therapy that whenever things come up, she just takes care of

it

> and moves on. I thank God for therapy!

> Sandy

>

>

>

>

>

> Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be

accessed at: / .

> Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.(

http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner,

Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are

Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye,

Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription

issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner,

at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... .

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Listen to her. She is right. As an OCD sufferer I know that it is not

reasonable, the stuff that my brain says that I need to do. The number of times

that my brain says I need to do it, it is stopping doing it that is the trouble.

My daughter is always worried about things blowing up. She is overly

concerned about Clorox. Always asking if I have used it.

It's an illogical disease.

Sandy <melbiscuit5@...> wrote:

Hi, I asked Bre,(15)what she thought it meant, since she has ocd and

she said to her, it meant stop saying ocd is illogical because she

KNOWS it is. She said it doesn't help to give advice about what ocd

is. The only thing that works is exposure so she can habituate and for

me not to reassure her. Yesterday she cleaned her bathroom and last

night came into my room and said she was worried that she had inhaled

some bleach fumes. I told her that her lungs would shrivel up and she

would die. We laughed and it was over. I knew she wanted reassurance

and so did she, but I wasn't about to fuel the ocd fire or give her

advice by saying " It's just your ocd, illogical, etc " . She has had so

much therapy that whenever things come up, she just takes care of it

and moves on. I thank God for therapy!

Sandy

Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at:

/ .

Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.(

http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., (

http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan,

Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail

Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be

addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... ,

louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

I think that you're right BUT there was a mom who

posted a month or so ago who said their whole family

had it and they all did ERP constantly (with humor)

and they're all doing well -- one in college, etc.

So they MUST have been reminding each other all the

time, but maybe just quick reminders without the

repeated advice which the sufferer has heard before.

--- Sympatico Mail <k.zarzour@...> wrote:

---------------------------------

Or maybe it's reminding them that they need to'fight

back' - ie my son's door-locking at night - I'm

usually reminding him that he doesn't need to check

the locks, he should just go to bed etc. Maybe we're

supposed to button-up and ignore the whole ocd thing?

Let the psych give the advice - we just do the normal

parenting things (like say Good night, and head up to

bed ourselves?)

kimz

Re: Stop giving advice

In a message dated 3/18/2006 5:36:35 P.M. Eastern

Standard Time,

lynnovale@... writes:

but the " stop giving advice " thing

I'm not sure about. Does it mean not answering

repetitive questions or not giving advice about

anything(!) as much as possible?

Lynn

Here's my stab at it. I do find myself trying to

" help " my daughter get

through an episode of OCD when it's bad by saying

" here, do it this way... try

this... do this.... " (literally grab at things in

the dark just trying to find

that ONE piece of advice that will help her

stop....).

I dunno... maybe that's what it means. All I do

know is that it rarely

helps my daughter (mostly frustrates her AND me) and

yet, I can't seem to stop

doing it -- perhaps it's the deep-rooted parental

instinct of " of course *I*

know what to do.. I'm a mother...I know these

things... it's my job " .

LT

[Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat

feature may be accessed at:

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..

Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar

Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan

Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., (

http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list

moderators are Birkhan, Castle,

Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac,

Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues

or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list

owner, at louisharkins@... ,

louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

I have the March and Mulle book, as well. Have your read Tamar

Chansky's book? It basically gives the same information - but in

layman's terms.

Khris, Mom to

K, 11 yo ds w/OCD+

L, 8 yo ds

A, 3 yo dd