Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi, welcome! First let me jump right to this - personally, and I'm just a parent also, I don't think your son is too young for ERP. Who said that to you or is it something you read?? OK - now to dad. I think a lot of dads (but definitely not all, we have some great ones in this group! and others I'm in) have a hard time seeing/realizing something is " not typical " about their child or thinking it might be more than a phase or age, etc. I'm a single mom, with 3 sons, so I haven't had to deal with " dad " as their dad isn't involved in their lives. But you are definitely not the first mom to ask, in this or other groups I'm in, about how to have dad more involved or help dad realize, etc., etc. What you described certainly sounds like OCD to me also. My OCD son is 17. His OCD began at around age 11.5. He seemed to suddenly have all these rituals, compulsions going on 24/7!! Now when younger, he had some OCD behaviors, like erasing or tracing over letters again, hoarding, and other things, but nothing that was causing him or family any problems, no great anxiety, etc. My thought is that if you can get an experienced therapist for treating OCD in children, then, YES, go for it!! You already seem familiar with CBT and ERP as therapy for OCD. And even kids as young as your son have taken medication for OCD. The medication can help lower anxiety levels so that they can better participate in therapy and also lower OC behaviors. What can work well is to pick out 1 or 2 or 3 things to work on. Pick what seems easiest, least anxiety causing. And then work only on those OC behaviors, ignore the others for now. You seem to be doing that some now, with the sticker charts, etc. And it can be really great when they finally conquer an " OCD need " and boost their determination to defeat/change other behaviors. Even *effort* to try stopping/changing a behavior can be rewarded. I know that young kids, like your son, can go through phases and that they can also be just plain stubborn, LOL, and like to get their way, have things done their way, things in their place, like little bedtime rituals, etc. But what you describe sounds like things are definitely OCD, as OCD can take " normal " things and run with them, exaggerate them...all which I'm sure you read about (you mentioned you've read some books). I wish I had some wise words for you to tell dad! But you can tell him that, as a mom of 3 sons and one with OCD, I certainly think your son could has OCD and could use some help/support. I also want to ask you if anyone has mentioned Aspergers Syndrome?? It's on the autism spectrum. Now - my OCD son also has Aspergers Syndrome. Where you wrote: " He also has some aspects that seem like sensory integration issues (loves spinning, swinging, very hard rubs and squeezes, hates stickers, stamps on the hand, kisses, light touch). " -- made me think of autism. Now, each Aspie or autistic person is very different. My son didn't do spinning or walking on toes and is actually OK with changes in routine, which many with autism have problems with (as do those with OCD who routine/rituals are important to - similarities there), but, anyway, your description brought it to my mind. So was wondering if that's ever been mentioned??? Well, this has gotten long! Hang in there with dad and son, and I definitely think you are on the right track!! single mom, 3 sons , 17, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers , 17, twin (not identical) Randall, 20.5 > > Hello everyone -- > I have been reading your postings for a while now and I have now > decided to ask everyone for some ideas. > I have a 4-1/3 year old son that has been diagnosed with OCD. > At a routine pediatrician visit at 4 yrs old my doctor became Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi, welcome! First let me jump right to this - personally, and I'm just a parent also, I don't think your son is too young for ERP. Who said that to you or is it something you read?? OK - now to dad. I think a lot of dads (but definitely not all, we have some great ones in this group! and others I'm in) have a hard time seeing/realizing something is " not typical " about their child or thinking it might be more than a phase or age, etc. I'm a single mom, with 3 sons, so I haven't had to deal with " dad " as their dad isn't involved in their lives. But you are definitely not the first mom to ask, in this or other groups I'm in, about how to have dad more involved or help dad realize, etc., etc. What you described certainly sounds like OCD to me also. My OCD son is 17. His OCD began at around age 11.5. He seemed to suddenly have all these rituals, compulsions going on 24/7!! Now when younger, he had some OCD behaviors, like erasing or tracing over letters again, hoarding, and other things, but nothing that was causing him or family any problems, no great anxiety, etc. My thought is that if you can get an experienced therapist for treating OCD in children, then, YES, go for it!! You already seem familiar with CBT and ERP as therapy for OCD. And even kids as young as your son have taken medication for OCD. The medication can help lower anxiety levels so that they can better participate in therapy and also lower OC behaviors. What can work well is to pick out 1 or 2 or 3 things to work on. Pick what seems easiest, least anxiety causing. And then work only on those OC behaviors, ignore the others for now. You seem to be doing that some now, with the sticker charts, etc. And it can be really great when they finally conquer an " OCD need " and boost their determination to defeat/change other behaviors. Even *effort* to try stopping/changing a behavior can be rewarded. I know that young kids, like your son, can go through phases and that they can also be just plain stubborn, LOL, and like to get their way, have things done their way, things in their place, like little bedtime rituals, etc. But what you describe sounds like things are definitely OCD, as OCD can take " normal " things and run with them, exaggerate them...all which I'm sure you read about (you mentioned you've read some books). I wish I had some wise words for you to tell dad! But you can tell him that, as a mom of 3 sons and one with OCD, I certainly think your son could has OCD and could use some help/support. I also want to ask you if anyone has mentioned Aspergers Syndrome?? It's on the autism spectrum. Now - my OCD son also has Aspergers Syndrome. Where you wrote: " He also has some aspects that seem like sensory integration issues (loves spinning, swinging, very hard rubs and squeezes, hates stickers, stamps on the hand, kisses, light touch). " -- made me think of autism. Now, each Aspie or autistic person is very different. My son didn't do spinning or walking on toes and is actually OK with changes in routine, which many with autism have problems with (as do those with OCD who routine/rituals are important to - similarities there), but, anyway, your description brought it to my mind. So was wondering if that's ever been mentioned??? Well, this has gotten long! Hang in there with dad and son, and I definitely think you are on the right track!! single mom, 3 sons , 17, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers , 17, twin (not identical) Randall, 20.5 > > Hello everyone -- > I have been reading your postings for a while now and I have now > decided to ask everyone for some ideas. > I have a 4-1/3 year old son that has been diagnosed with OCD. > At a routine pediatrician visit at 4 yrs old my doctor became Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi, I know has already given you some good words of advice. I just wanted to add that an observant parent usually knows when something is out of sync with their child. However, as parents, it is also difficult to accept that there may be a problem when part of the time the child seems fine. It can really be confusing. It took me longer than it should have to finally seek help. I think if the pediatrician, your son's preschool, and a psychologist all believe something is up, then something is probably up. These are people who see children everyday and know what type of behavior would be considered normal for your son's age group. My son wasn't diagnosed until he was 11, but he had behaviors that I questioned from the time he was about 3 years old; however, the pediatrician never really paid much attention to them until he was closer to 9 or 10. So, my thinking is that most pediatricians would not suggest an evaluation unless he/she saw something that needed to be investigated. I'm with the sooner you can start learning how to help your son (and it sounds as if you are already on that road), the better off the entire family will be. By the way, my husband only went to the first few sessions with my son and me, and my husband actually has OCD too. He pretty much leaves it up to me to handle our son's medical care - I just fill him in on the highlights. Maybe your husband just isn't ready to accept that there is a problem yet (it is a difficult thing for all parents to do - you are just several steps ahead of him probably), but I would encourage you to seek help even if your husband is not able to participate right now. If your son improves as a result, maybe your husband will be more accepting that intervention is needed. Good Luck, > > Hello everyone -- > I have been reading your postings for a while now and I have now > decided to ask everyone for some ideas. > I have a 4-1/3 year old son that has been diagnosed with OCD. > At a routine pediatrician visit at 4 yrs old my doctor became > concerned about the degree of anger he expressed over some tiny > thing. She recommended evaluation. At first I was doubtful, although > we had been " having problems " with him being angry and controlling > and difficult (in the context of usually being a sweet, loving, > expressive kid), but we thought maybe it was the age. We have an > older child who was intense at that age although in a completely > different way. Anyways, a couple of days later the preschool called > and wanted to set up a meeting to speak about his behavior at > school. This led to our seeing a psychologist who specializes in OCD > in children. She felt strongly (after a two hour discussion with > parents only) that he has OCD, and maybe severe OCD. > > He is very rigid about the way all transitions are handled (the wake- > up ritual, coming to the breakfast table, getting clothes on, where > his school-bag is when he picks it up, where it is placed in the > car, who opens the garage door…all the way to the good-night ritual > which for a time was an ever-increasing list of ridiculous demands > about exactly what I was to say and what my body position was to be > when I said it…). > He has problems at school with dissatisfaction and erasing or > crumpling up his papers, or with being angry with a teacher or > classmate for not saying the right thing to him or for them filling > the sand bucket the wrong way. His birthday was particularly > difficult when people (who didn't even know it was his birthday) > didn't say " happy birthday " and he got angry at each one of them. He > gets very upset (sobbing) if there is any change in the preschool > routine, especially when it comes to nap-time. > He was hoarding scraps and wrappers in a corner in his room and in > his bookbag (not as much now for some reason -- we worked to > eliminate that one). When he gets a present he doesn't want to open > it. " I'll play with it later " . > He started snapping his fingers frequently when stressed and > sometimes has problems falling asleep. > > He is extremely verbal and very perceptive and sensitive. He is also > loving, sweet, and considerate, and has wonderful happy outgoing > behavior if nothing is upsetting him. When we " do it right " he is > thrilled and affectionate. > He also has some aspects that seem like sensory integration issues > (loves spinning, swinging, very hard rubs and squeezes, hates > stickers, stamps on the hand, kisses, light touch). > > So I have been reading some great books, and we have stopped some of > our enabling behavior and done some sticker charts and the like > which are certainly helping and seem to have stopped the downhill > slide we were on. He is less explosive and angry, but he is still > sad and worried or upset a lot of the time. > > So here is my big problem (if you are still with me thanks so much!) … > My (really wonderful) husband says he doesn't think anything is > wrong and actually is extremely angry that we ever had the meeting > at school or saw the psychologist. He feels that it has cast our son > in a negative light and he doesn't understand why I'd want to " give > him a label " . He thinks everyone (school, pediatrician, and me) > overreacted. He says I am " nuts " (about this) and have some baggage > of my own that I need to deal with (we do have a strong family hx). > I have not shared the books I've read with him (he gets angry > whenever it comes up). He was at the meeting with the specialist and > he didn't argue with her but he was very angry with me. I guess he > thinks I am looking for things from my reading. > This disagreement has been simmering for two months since seeing the > psychologist. Overall we are presenting a united front about what > behavior we'll tolerate and we have shortened some routines. I > really think his outbursts and meltdowns are fewer. When he tries to > add to routines we can usually put a stop to the addition. But, when > my son gets upset about some change that is a natural part of the > day, my husband sometimes gets angry at me for instigating a problem > (something that wouldn't bother another kid but sets my son off). My > son is apparently too young to start ERP anyways, but it might be > helpful if my husband and I talked with a behavioral therapist...but > he would never go and I am afraid to even talk about this with him > at all. I'm even afraid to go myself because I know my husband would > be infuriated. If my son's behavior comes up in any way my husband > either reiterates that nothing is wrong or he gets upset that > somehow I did something to get our son going. It has produced a lot > of problems for us. We aren't talking about it because his opinion > is so strong and he gets so upset and angry with me. > What do I do? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 stmail13, I've had some time to think about your problem and I think I've had a good idea about it. The cbt/erp therapy is really just a firm but gentle daily activity addressing a single behavior repeatedly until it finally gives way - then you move on to another one. My suggestion is to stop using all the terms used relating to ocd that trigger your husband's reaction - read a few books on the therapy until you think you have a pretty good understanding of how to do it (lots of people simply can't find a qualified therapist and have to do it themselves anyway - i myself 'invented' some of the techniques to use on myself over the years never knowing a thing about ocd). Here's my analogy: when your son was still in diapers and needed to be potty trained (during the day, during the night, lots of accidents) it was an extended training activity with lots of tricks and reminding and paying attention to his cues. It would have been alarming to ME if my husband had said that " Silje is INCONTINENT!!, here are some books, articles and advice on the topic, here are pull-ups and waterproof sheets! We have to take care of this - it's happening every day/ all day and may take weeks or months to train her to stop going to the bathroom all over the house and at the grocery store!!! CBT/ERP is a lot like potty training - and equally unemotional and free of parental failing as the cause or condemning judgment on the child - there's a similarity in how the child reacts to it - with resistance at times and set backs after making some progress and the simple need for time and diligence to achieve it. And denial that it even needs to be done - and lack of interest in giving up the diaper on one hand and the compulsion on the other hand. If you get 'matter of fact' about the therapy and present it to your husband in terms of parental training and teaching 'discipline' and breaking bad habits in the way that works - he may forget all about (and will probably want to forget all about) the dreaded ocd/mental illness thing. [[i don't see any need to openly discuss it with him at all - just introduce it into your parenting style.]] Especially once he sees how effective it is. Just incorporate it into your parenting strategy - in time, both you and your son will get better and better at spotting a new ocd behavior and immediately 'therapying' it away before it gets bad. . . Your husband may also be a little comforted to know (especially if he has a bit of ocd himself) that 'talk therapy' of any kind is spectacularly ineffective against ocd - if he has ocd himself he already deep down knows this - a professional cbt/erp therapist doesn't even have to form much of a personal relationship with the patient to give proper treatment...I've heard of children who respond quite well the doctor is very businesslike and matter of fact when teaching the skills to the children - in fact, some of the children prefer it. And again, you don't absolutely have to involve a doctor or therapist in this - you really can do this yourself - if it ever does (and it may never) get extremely bad and out of control and spins the family into a crisis, your husband is unlikely at that point to be able to deny that there's a problem . . . > > Hello everyone -- > I have been reading your postings for a while now and I have now > decided to ask everyone for some ideas. > I have a 4-1/3 year old son that has been diagnosed with OCD. > At a routine pediatrician visit at 4 yrs old my doctor became > concerned about the degree of anger he expressed over some tiny > thing. She recommended evaluation. At first I was doubtful, although > we had been " having problems " with him being angry and controlling > and difficult (in the context of usually being a sweet, loving, > expressive kid), but we thought maybe it was the age. We have an > older child who was intense at that age although in a completely > different way. Anyways, a couple of days later the preschool called > and wanted to set up a meeting to speak about his behavior at > school. This led to our seeing a psychologist who specializes in OCD > in children. She felt strongly (after a two hour discussion with > parents only) that he has OCD, and maybe severe OCD. > > He is very rigid about the way all transitions are handled (the wake- > up ritual, coming to the breakfast table, getting clothes on, where > his school-bag is when he picks it up, where it is placed in the > car, who opens the garage door…all the way to the good-night ritual > which for a time was an ever-increasing list of ridiculous demands > about exactly what I was to say and what my body position was to be > when I said it…). > He has problems at school with dissatisfaction and erasing or > crumpling up his papers, or with being angry with a teacher or > classmate for not saying the right thing to him or for them filling > the sand bucket the wrong way. His birthday was particularly > difficult when people (who didn't even know it was his birthday) > didn't say " happy birthday " and he got angry at each one of them. He > gets very upset (sobbing) if there is any change in the preschool > routine, especially when it comes to nap-time. > He was hoarding scraps and wrappers in a corner in his room and in > his bookbag (not as much now for some reason -- we worked to > eliminate that one). When he gets a present he doesn't want to open > it. " I'll play with it later " . > He started snapping his fingers frequently when stressed and > sometimes has problems falling asleep. > > He is extremely verbal and very perceptive and sensitive. He is also > loving, sweet, and considerate, and has wonderful happy outgoing > behavior if nothing is upsetting him. When we " do it right " he is > thrilled and affectionate. > He also has some aspects that seem like sensory integration issues > (loves spinning, swinging, very hard rubs and squeezes, hates > stickers, stamps on the hand, kisses, light touch). > > So I have been reading some great books, and we have stopped some of > our enabling behavior and done some sticker charts and the like > which are certainly helping and seem to have stopped the downhill > slide we were on. He is less explosive and angry, but he is still > sad and worried or upset a lot of the time. > > So here is my big problem (if you are still with me thanks so much!) … > My (really wonderful) husband says he doesn't think anything is > wrong and actually is extremely angry that we ever had the meeting > at school or saw the psychologist. He feels that it has cast our son > in a negative light and he doesn't understand why I'd want to " give > him a label " . He thinks everyone (school, pediatrician, and me) > overreacted. He says I am " nuts " (about this) and have some baggage > of my own that I need to deal with (we do have a strong family hx). > I have not shared the books I've read with him (he gets angry > whenever it comes up). He was at the meeting with the specialist and > he didn't argue with her but he was very angry with me. I guess he > thinks I am looking for things from my reading. > This disagreement has been simmering for two months since seeing the > psychologist. Overall we are presenting a united front about what > behavior we'll tolerate and we have shortened some routines. I > really think his outbursts and meltdowns are fewer. When he tries to > add to routines we can usually put a stop to the addition. But, when > my son gets upset about some change that is a natural part of the > day, my husband sometimes gets angry at me for instigating a problem > (something that wouldn't bother another kid but sets my son off). My > son is apparently too young to start ERP anyways, but it might be > helpful if my husband and I talked with a behavioral therapist...but > he would never go and I am afraid to even talk about this with him > at all. I'm even afraid to go myself because I know my husband would > be infuriated. If my son's behavior comes up in any way my husband > either reiterates that nothing is wrong or he gets upset that > somehow I did something to get our son going. It has produced a lot > of problems for us. We aren't talking about it because his opinion > is so strong and he gets so upset and angry with me. > What do I do? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 stmail13, you have a couple of problems--one is your child with OCD and the other is Dad who is threatened by that fact, or for whatever reason is insisting that your son does not have OCD/will not be treated. I think it matters less *why* Dad is reacting the way he is, solving that is not going to help your son much, and if you I wouldn't spend too much mental energy figuring this one out. It's not my marriage, but I think it is impossible to do right by your son in the situation and also not ruffle Dad's feathers. IMO you should follow the expert's advice. It's not like treating your son for OCD will somehow harm him later if--oopsie--Dad is right and the teachers, you, ped and pdoc are all wrong. The treatment (therapy, or SSRI, or both) will not diminish his symptoms. OTOH if these experts and you are right and Dad is wrong, valuable time will have been lost while OCD infests more and more of your son's childhood years. All research points to the brightest outcomes for those kids who are diagnosed and treated while young, before OCD has had a chance to warp their personalities and interfere with their normal developmental tasks. My daughter was diagnosed at four; at the time this seemed an unbelievable burden but in years since I realize it was a blessing (she's 12 now.) Does Dad understand that OCD is an *anxiety* disorder, that it is miserable for the sufferer? That untreated OCD is tough or annoying or embarrassing to the family is secondary. His boy is not carrying around the backpack and having meltdowns over nothing for no reason. It's because he gets a dramatic blast of anxiety when all these " rules " aren't followed to the T. My dd's pdoc told me to imagine that feeling right after someone runs a light and crashes into your car. When that happened to me, I would have done anything to make that bad feeling go away if I could have. I suggest you tell the pdoc or ped frankly that your husband rejects this diagnosis and any talk of treatment--you don't know why, he just does--and ask what the next step may be. This will not be news to the doctors. It is a common enough reaction to hearing that your son has a mental disorder, even one as treatable as OCD. Kathy R. in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: " stmail13 " <stmail13@...> > Thanks to all of you for your guidance and ideas... > In answer to some of your comments, the psychologist was asking a > lot of Asperger's type questions and convinced herself that that > didn't seem to be it (I think because he is very imaginative, > verbal, communicative, good eye contact?)...I worried about ODD > (actually I think that is what the pediatrician was concerned about > when she saw his aggression over the way I got him undressed for his > exam) but convinced myself that his anger and defiance at times > (much improved now) was in response to his rituals being interrupted > or not done correctly. He seems very eager to please and > affectionate. Thankfully we aren't hearing as much " you are a bad > bad bad mommy! " as we were last fall. > > By the way, I love the analogy to potty training -- it gave me some > insight into how my husband must feel: >>>>It would have been alarming to ME if my husband had said > that " Silje > is INCONTINENT!!, here are some books, articles and advice on the > topic, here are pull-ups and waterproof sheets! We have to take care > of this - it's happening every day/ all day and may take weeks or > months to train her to stop going to the bathroom all over the house > and at the grocery store!!!>>> > > I spoke with the behavioral therapist (does a lot of OCD) and she > felt that he could not yet effectively participate in therapy but > that it would be helpful for us (parents) to come in a couple of > times for guidance. This is the type of thing I'd like to do but > that I think my husband would blow a gasket over (even if I just > told him I want to go myself) since it would be admitting that there > is a problem. > > The last few days have been good -- husband has expressed a bit > of " well, if there really is something wrong... " and " this isn't > what worries me, but that behavior does... " so I feel more at ease. > But, then every few days he becomes angry (rarely at him, " you were > doing so well...why are you doing that again! " , but usually towards > me.) Then, I feel like this is an overwhelming burden and I don't > know what to do. I think we agree on the basic premises of limiting > the expansion of rituals and providing rewards for good behavior > (one of our first priorities was to get him to stop having screaming > breakdowns at drop-off and pick-up from school over things like his > backback and he can often hold it together now if reminded that " he > will lose a sticker if he uses his big voice " . He is still upset but > not so loud about it at least.). Or maybe things are only better > because I know what buttons NOT to push at pick-up... " just let him > take his time to get the backpack out of the cubby and don't touch > anything or rush him! " . > > The school initiated this meeting last fall but hasn't really said > much since. They noted that the drop-off's at school have been > better (which they appreciate) but I don't know what anyone really > thinks and my husband is so upset that we had a meeting at all (he > thinks it gave the school ideas about him that aren't true) that I > certainly wouldn't want to have another meeting to see what they > think now! I imagine they must be noticing the same things I am but > maybe they don't want to bring it up yet? Or they think it only > happens at school? In a different world, I would love to see him in > OT but again I think it would blow things up with my dh to even > bring it up. When we are in tension my son certainly picks up on it > and is more anxious so I have to balance that all out. > > How do you convince someone that we could use help? DH is definitely > in a difference place in terms of accepting this. And, yes, I think > both of us have some OCD (that we do ok with and that he denies) and > we both have extensive family histories of OCD, anxiety, > trichtillomania, schizoaffective...That's where some of the fear > comes from. When the psychologist gently mentioned (positively) that > medication is available to help, my dh got so upset about that > afterwards... " don't you ever put my son on medication " . > > Already I have seen how the ERP will work a bit although I do it > fast and sloppy and really don't know how to apply it in real life. > He doesn't really do the obvious rituals that seem to lend > themselves. We have been chipping away at some of the intensity > about the backpack being a certain way (used to be I couldn't look > at it at all)...or if he is being very slow about something (wanting > to open the garage door button but taking too long to get there > because he is fiddling around with the backpack or something) we > just do it ( " open the door within 5 seconds and I'll open the door > myself). Of course he gets very upset but not for as long as he did > before and I feel like we need to show him that there are limits. > > It is hard (without professional guidance from a therapist) to > decide what behaviors to address especially since most of his > behaviors aren't obvious rituals like hand-washing, but just > incredible rigidity about what he wants to do. > > I am grateful that our pediatrician said something and that we have > come far enough to get a diagnosis, but I want take advantage of the > head start by getting him help before he is older (and having more > severe problems at school or with other kids). > > Thanks again to all of you for your thoughtful replies and advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Mystery Mom (stmail13), I remember driving to pick my son up from school each day (in 2nd or 3rd grade?) and dreading it . . . he'd fall apart as soon as he got in the car. Is your son releasing the built up anxiety and tension of the day? It can be so hard for a regular kid to 'be good' and 'follow all the rules' and go along with the routine at school - my son experienced so much anxiety all day and tried so hard to keep it to himself and keep trudging through his day that he let it all out in the car. Maybe you could tell him he has x minutes to lose his mind after school and x minutes in the morning - and make some clear rules about exactly which behaviors he absolutely can't do while he's letting off steam. Then, you can practice your deep breathing zen exercises while he goes at it - hard to do, I know - they're masters at egging us on. Another though is contacting his teachers through email - ask them how he's doing, let them know some of the successes you've had, what you're trying to do at home to help him. Teachers like to know that parents are doing the best they can on the home front - and I think they like having a bit of insight into the children that only a parent can have - that'll give them permission to gently express any more concerns they may have or progress he's made - let them know that you DO want to hear it (parents often don't want to - I think teachers must walk on eggshells with all those different parents). Finally, as far as the cbt/erp goes - you may try explaining it to your husband as being very similar to the anxiety of public speaking - and that the first few times it's nerve wracking and then the more you do it the easier it gets until you barely get nervous at all. And I have two examples of how you can work on it with your son - for example, if he's scared of a dark room - you could take him into a room and tell him you're going to turn off the light to make it dark for 2 seconds and you'll even count outloud so he'll know how long it is . . . then you'll turn it back on. Tell him he's going to feel scared - and then help him notice how long it takes for the scared feeling to die away and ask him how scared he was from 1 (nothing at all) to 10 (terrified) then ask him a while later which number he is. depending on how bad it is, you could do it a few times in a row or wait a few hours and do it again, or just do it once a day. You should start asking him what number he is before the exercise too so he starts thinking about the difference. What 'should' happen is that the number anticipating the light out will slowly go down, the number when the room gets dark will slowly go down and the time it takes for the fear to pass will go down - You need to keep digging for the fear - leave it dark longer - do it more often - until ultimately it's going to be just boring for him and the fear and anxiety reaction will be gone. You can interject humor into it if you want - sometimes that helps a lot to diffuse the anxiety - ocd people usually know deep down that it's all ridiculous (too bad knowing that doesn't make it go away on its own). Someone on the site said her son was instructed to do a bunch of jumping jacks and put his head down and shake it back and forth until his body was all hopped up and stimulated - simulating the body's reaction to anxiety and fear - then he would practice relaxation techniques like deep breathing. To tune him into his body's responses and learn how to react to them and sooth them. One more story then I promise I'll stop - because it illustrates ocd a little better (afterall, lots of people are scared of the dark). I had a flareup in ocd a couple weeks ago - I was at my desk at work and noticed that there were pens/highlighter/pencils all over my desk - at all different angles - some on top of papers, some underneath - one on the floor - some with caps off . . . I started collecting them and putting them in the dish - then I made sure all the caps were on and the pens retracted - then I made sure all the writing tips were facing in the same direction - then I categorized them by type - feeling anxiety all the while - so, I'm watching myself do this and I knew I couldn't just let myself keep going (it occurred to me that all the pens in my desk drawer were probably in disarray, too). So, I told myself I could do it for ten more seconds and then I had to stop. About 30 seconds later I finally got myself to stop - felt the wave of anxiety peaking up, let it wash over me. Over the past weeks I try to delay straightening them as long as I can - then I let myself do it for less and less time - Today I notice when they're scattered about - I think I'm almost past this one - Do you have any idea how ridiculous this is for me?? My writing utensils are using up chunks of my work day and giving me anxiety with their very presence/angle/location!!!! The anxiety of stopping myself is huge (so much easier to just let myself mindlessly straighten them up) but I know that in the long run I have to go through this methodical and gradual exercise if I want to be rid of the ocd pen demons. > > Thanks to all of you for your guidance and ideas... > In answer to some of your comments, the psychologist was asking a > lot of Asperger's type questions and convinced herself that that > didn't seem to be it (I think because he is very imaginative, > verbal, communicative, good eye contact?)...I worried about ODD > (actually I think that is what the pediatrician was concerned about > when she saw his aggression over the way I got him undressed for his > exam) but convinced myself that his anger and defiance at times > (much improved now) was in response to his rituals being interrupted > or not done correctly. He seems very eager to please and > affectionate. Thankfully we aren't hearing as much " you are a bad > bad bad mommy! " as we were last fall. > > By the way, I love the analogy to potty training -- it gave me some > insight into how my husband must feel: > >>>It would have been alarming to ME if my husband had said > that " Silje > is INCONTINENT!!, here are some books, articles and advice on the > topic, here are pull-ups and waterproof sheets! We have to take care > of this - it's happening every day/ all day and may take weeks or > months to train her to stop going to the bathroom all over the house > and at the grocery store!!!>>> > > I spoke with the behavioral therapist (does a lot of OCD) and she > felt that he could not yet effectively participate in therapy but > that it would be helpful for us (parents) to come in a couple of > times for guidance. This is the type of thing I'd like to do but > that I think my husband would blow a gasket over (even if I just > told him I want to go myself) since it would be admitting that there > is a problem. > > The last few days have been good -- husband has expressed a bit > of " well, if there really is something wrong... " and " this isn't > what worries me, but that behavior does... " so I feel more at ease. > But, then every few days he becomes angry (rarely at him, " you were > doing so well...why are you doing that again! " , but usually towards > me.) Then, I feel like this is an overwhelming burden and I don't > know what to do. I think we agree on the basic premises of limiting > the expansion of rituals and providing rewards for good behavior > (one of our first priorities was to get him to stop having screaming > breakdowns at drop-off and pick-up from school over things like his > backback and he can often hold it together now if reminded that " he > will lose a sticker if he uses his big voice " . He is still upset but > not so loud about it at least.). Or maybe things are only better > because I know what buttons NOT to push at pick-up... " just let him > take his time to get the backpack out of the cubby and don't touch > anything or rush him! " . > > The school initiated this meeting last fall but hasn't really said > much since. They noted that the drop-off's at school have been > better (which they appreciate) but I don't know what anyone really > thinks and my husband is so upset that we had a meeting at all (he > thinks it gave the school ideas about him that aren't true) that I > certainly wouldn't want to have another meeting to see what they > think now! I imagine they must be noticing the same things I am but > maybe they don't want to bring it up yet? Or they think it only > happens at school? In a different world, I would love to see him in > OT but again I think it would blow things up with my dh to even > bring it up. When we are in tension my son certainly picks up on it > and is more anxious so I have to balance that all out. > > How do you convince someone that we could use help? DH is definitely > in a difference place in terms of accepting this. And, yes, I think > both of us have some OCD (that we do ok with and that he denies) and > we both have extensive family histories of OCD, anxiety, > trichtillomania, schizoaffective...That's where some of the fear > comes from. When the psychologist gently mentioned (positively) that > medication is available to help, my dh got so upset about that > afterwards... " don't you ever put my son on medication " . > > Already I have seen how the ERP will work a bit although I do it > fast and sloppy and really don't know how to apply it in real life. > He doesn't really do the obvious rituals that seem to lend > themselves. We have been chipping away at some of the intensity > about the backpack being a certain way (used to be I couldn't look > at it at all)...or if he is being very slow about something (wanting > to open the garage door button but taking too long to get there > because he is fiddling around with the backpack or something) we > just do it ( " open the door within 5 seconds and I'll open the door > myself). Of course he gets very upset but not for as long as he did > before and I feel like we need to show him that there are limits. > > It is hard (without professional guidance from a therapist) to > decide what behaviors to address especially since most of his > behaviors aren't obvious rituals like hand-washing, but just > incredible rigidity about what he wants to do. > > I am grateful that our pediatrician said something and that we have > come far enough to get a diagnosis, but I want take advantage of the > head start by getting him help before he is older (and having more > severe problems at school or with other kids). > > Thanks again to all of you for your thoughtful replies and advice! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 There may be the possibility that your husband has OCD and has 'handled it' without too much trouble. My husband had trouble accepting the diagnosis of my son also. >I finally got him to accept it by copying a few concise pages that related very closely to my son and leaving them where he would stumble across them. He is not much of a reader but he did finally start to understand. > From: " stmail13 " <stmail13@...> > Date: 2006/02/09 Thu PM 07:57:07 EST > > Subject: my preschool son > > Hello everyone -- > I have been reading your postings for a while now and I have now > decided to ask everyone for some ideas. > I have a 4-1/3 year old son that has been diagnosed with OCD. > At a routine pediatrician visit at 4 yrs old my doctor became > concerned about the degree of anger he expressed over some tiny > thing. She recommended evaluation. At first I was doubtful, although > we had been " having problems " with him being angry and controlling > and difficult (in the context of usually being a sweet, loving, > expressive kid), but we thought maybe it was the age. We have an > older child who was intense at that age although in a completely > different way. Anyways, a couple of days later the preschool called > and wanted to set up a meeting to speak about his behavior at > school. This led to our seeing a psychologist who specializes in OCD > in children. She felt strongly (after a two hour discussion with > parents only) that he has OCD, and maybe severe OCD. > > He is very rigid about the way all transitions are handled (the wake- > up ritual, coming to the breakfast table, getting clothes on, where > his school-bag is when he picks it up, where it is placed in the > car, who opens the garage door…all the way to the good-night ritual > which for a time was an ever-increasing list of ridiculous demands > about exactly what I was to say and what my body position was to be > when I said it…). > He has problems at school with dissatisfaction and erasing or > crumpling up his papers, or with being angry with a teacher or > classmate for not saying the right thing to him or for them filling > the sand bucket the wrong way. His birthday was particularly > difficult when people (who didn't even know it was his birthday) > didn't say " happy birthday " and he got angry at each one of them. He > gets very upset (sobbing) if there is any change in the preschool > routine, especially when it comes to nap-time. > He was hoarding scraps and wrappers in a corner in his room and in > his bookbag (not as much now for some reason -- we worked to > eliminate that one). When he gets a present he doesn't want to open > it. " I'll play with it later " . > He started snapping his fingers frequently when stressed and > sometimes has problems falling asleep. > > He is extremely verbal and very perceptive and sensitive. He is also > loving, sweet, and considerate, and has wonderful happy outgoing > behavior if nothing is upsetting him. When we " do it right " he is > thrilled and affectionate. > He also has some aspects that seem like sensory integration issues > (loves spinning, swinging, very hard rubs and squeezes, hates > stickers, stamps on the hand, kisses, light touch). > > So I have been reading some great books, and we have stopped some of > our enabling behavior and done some sticker charts and the like > which are certainly helping and seem to have stopped the downhill > slide we were on. He is less explosive and angry, but he is still > sad and worried or upset a lot of the time. > > So here is my big problem (if you are still with me thanks so much!)… > My (really wonderful) husband says he doesn't think anything is > wrong and actually is extremely angry that we ever had the meeting > at school or saw the psychologist. He feels that it has cast our son > in a negative light and he doesn't understand why I'd want to " give > him a label " . He thinks everyone (school, pediatrician, and me) > overreacted. He says I am " nuts " (about this) and have some baggage > of my own that I need to deal with (we do have a strong family hx). > I have not shared the books I've read with him (he gets angry > whenever it comes up). He was at the meeting with the specialist and > he didn't argue with her but he was very angry with me. I guess he > thinks I am looking for things from my reading. > This disagreement has been simmering for two months since seeing the > psychologist. Overall we are presenting a united front about what > behavior we'll tolerate and we have shortened some routines. I > really think his outbursts and meltdowns are fewer. When he tries to > add to routines we can usually put a stop to the addition. But, when > my son gets upset about some change that is a natural part of the > day, my husband sometimes gets angry at me for instigating a problem > (something that wouldn't bother another kid but sets my son off). My > son is apparently too young to start ERP anyways, but it might be > helpful if my husband and I talked with a behavioral therapist...but > he would never go and I am afraid to even talk about this with him > at all. I'm even afraid to go myself because I know my husband would > be infuriated. If my son's behavior comes up in any way my husband > either reiterates that nothing is wrong or he gets upset that > somehow I did something to get our son going. It has produced a lot > of problems for us. We aren't talking about it because his opinion > is so strong and he gets so upset and angry with me. > What do I do? > > > > > > > > Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at: / . > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 There may be the possibility that your husband has OCD and has 'handled it' without too much trouble. My husband had trouble accepting the diagnosis of my son also. >I finally got him to accept it by copying a few concise pages that related very closely to my son and leaving them where he would stumble across them. He is not much of a reader but he did finally start to understand. > From: " stmail13 " <stmail13@...> > Date: 2006/02/09 Thu PM 07:57:07 EST > > Subject: my preschool son > > Hello everyone -- > I have been reading your postings for a while now and I have now > decided to ask everyone for some ideas. > I have a 4-1/3 year old son that has been diagnosed with OCD. > At a routine pediatrician visit at 4 yrs old my doctor became > concerned about the degree of anger he expressed over some tiny > thing. She recommended evaluation. At first I was doubtful, although > we had been " having problems " with him being angry and controlling > and difficult (in the context of usually being a sweet, loving, > expressive kid), but we thought maybe it was the age. We have an > older child who was intense at that age although in a completely > different way. Anyways, a couple of days later the preschool called > and wanted to set up a meeting to speak about his behavior at > school. This led to our seeing a psychologist who specializes in OCD > in children. She felt strongly (after a two hour discussion with > parents only) that he has OCD, and maybe severe OCD. > > He is very rigid about the way all transitions are handled (the wake- > up ritual, coming to the breakfast table, getting clothes on, where > his school-bag is when he picks it up, where it is placed in the > car, who opens the garage door…all the way to the good-night ritual > which for a time was an ever-increasing list of ridiculous demands > about exactly what I was to say and what my body position was to be > when I said it…). > He has problems at school with dissatisfaction and erasing or > crumpling up his papers, or with being angry with a teacher or > classmate for not saying the right thing to him or for them filling > the sand bucket the wrong way. His birthday was particularly > difficult when people (who didn't even know it was his birthday) > didn't say " happy birthday " and he got angry at each one of them. He > gets very upset (sobbing) if there is any change in the preschool > routine, especially when it comes to nap-time. > He was hoarding scraps and wrappers in a corner in his room and in > his bookbag (not as much now for some reason -- we worked to > eliminate that one). When he gets a present he doesn't want to open > it. " I'll play with it later " . > He started snapping his fingers frequently when stressed and > sometimes has problems falling asleep. > > He is extremely verbal and very perceptive and sensitive. He is also > loving, sweet, and considerate, and has wonderful happy outgoing > behavior if nothing is upsetting him. When we " do it right " he is > thrilled and affectionate. > He also has some aspects that seem like sensory integration issues > (loves spinning, swinging, very hard rubs and squeezes, hates > stickers, stamps on the hand, kisses, light touch). > > So I have been reading some great books, and we have stopped some of > our enabling behavior and done some sticker charts and the like > which are certainly helping and seem to have stopped the downhill > slide we were on. He is less explosive and angry, but he is still > sad and worried or upset a lot of the time. > > So here is my big problem (if you are still with me thanks so much!)… > My (really wonderful) husband says he doesn't think anything is > wrong and actually is extremely angry that we ever had the meeting > at school or saw the psychologist. He feels that it has cast our son > in a negative light and he doesn't understand why I'd want to " give > him a label " . He thinks everyone (school, pediatrician, and me) > overreacted. He says I am " nuts " (about this) and have some baggage > of my own that I need to deal with (we do have a strong family hx). > I have not shared the books I've read with him (he gets angry > whenever it comes up). He was at the meeting with the specialist and > he didn't argue with her but he was very angry with me. I guess he > thinks I am looking for things from my reading. > This disagreement has been simmering for two months since seeing the > psychologist. Overall we are presenting a united front about what > behavior we'll tolerate and we have shortened some routines. I > really think his outbursts and meltdowns are fewer. When he tries to > add to routines we can usually put a stop to the addition. But, when > my son gets upset about some change that is a natural part of the > day, my husband sometimes gets angry at me for instigating a problem > (something that wouldn't bother another kid but sets my son off). My > son is apparently too young to start ERP anyways, but it might be > helpful if my husband and I talked with a behavioral therapist...but > he would never go and I am afraid to even talk about this with him > at all. I'm even afraid to go myself because I know my husband would > be infuriated. If my son's behavior comes up in any way my husband > either reiterates that nothing is wrong or he gets upset that > somehow I did something to get our son going. It has produced a lot > of problems for us. We aren't talking about it because his opinion > is so strong and he gets so upset and angry with me. > What do I do? > > > > > > > > Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at: / . > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Yes -- I definitely see that he has a difficult time with transitions in the day in general and specifically at drop-off or pick-up from school. I expect he is holding it together for much of the school day but just can't stop once I pick him up. Our first goal was just to keep it fairly quiet until we got to the car so the other parents and teachers wouldn't have to see. I like the analogies about exposure...very helpful. I don't always see how to apply the technique in real life for him, since we don't have clear contamination or darkness type fears. Often it is just an incredible need for total control. Lately he's been trying to add stuff to the bedtime routine (whispering in my ear, " tell daddy to come in and rub me after I'm asleep " but not letting his dad actually hear him say it, and being very angry if I don't tell him this statement). So now that I have read a bit and followed this group, I know to not do it at all and just let him be anxious about not hearing this exact verbal exchange that he wants to hear. So far he is still upset each night, but I hope we will eliminate this new little add-on. I'm sure more attempts are coming! Many of his control issues are demands that we say certain statements at certain times. I'd love to hear what the teachers are thinking but my husband doesn't want to start a dialogue with them (worried about labeling, etc. or giving them " ideas " ). Everybody thanks again, " Mystery Mom " (?) -- hey I kind of like that! (still keeping all this under wraps...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Remember that just not doing the request won't necessarily work - totally cutting him off from the ocd activities may just send him into a frenzy. Instead, try only allowing x number of these requests - then when he reaches the number of times there are no more. If he's willing to save one for later that's actually good because delaying is a good technique to eventually make it go away. X number should decrease gradually over time until x becomes zero. Or, try allowing certain requests at certain places but not at others, eventually making it fewer and fewer places (in the car but not in the coatroom at school?). Or, putting a clock limit on it - he can make the request until 9pm, but after that he has to stop until tomorrow. If this whisper request is a new one than it may be a good one to start on since it hasn't become entrenched yet - think up what the limit or limits will be - tell him what they are - and then stick by them - try to make sure that the limit you choose won't cause an enormous anxiety level . . . you're aiming for a low range anxiety level . . . so, he'll feel the anxiety and become accustomed to it and have the chance to see that nothing bad happens. I hear parents on this board say that " when a new one pops up we get on it right away " . . . this says to me that it requires a plan of every increasing limits on the activity until it goes away - not as simple as just ignoring it (not that ignoring it is easy once they become hysterical). If you have success with this new one - then all of you will see that it really can work and be willing to try it on another activity - and it could help him see that when you set these limits that you WILL stick to them and that nothing terrible happens. > > Yes -- I definitely see that he has a difficult time with > transitions in the day in general and specifically at drop-off or > pick-up from school. I expect he is holding it together for much of > the school day but just can't stop once I pick him up. Our first > goal was just to keep it fairly quiet until we got to the car so the > other parents and teachers wouldn't have to see. > I like the analogies about exposure...very helpful. I don't always > see how to apply the technique in real life for him, since we don't > have clear contamination or darkness type fears. Often it is just an > incredible need for total control. > Lately he's been trying to add stuff to the bedtime routine > (whispering in my ear, " tell daddy to come in and rub me after I'm > asleep " but not letting his dad actually hear him say it, and being > very angry if I don't tell him this statement). So now that I have > read a bit and followed this group, I know to not do it at all and > just let him be anxious about not hearing this exact verbal exchange > that he wants to hear. So far he is still upset each night, but I > hope we will eliminate this new little add-on. I'm sure more > attempts are coming! Many of his control issues are demands that we > say certain statements at certain times. > > I'd love to hear what the teachers are thinking but my husband > doesn't want to start a dialogue with them (worried about labeling, > etc. or giving them " ideas " ). > > Everybody thanks again, > " Mystery Mom " (?) -- hey I kind of like that! > (still keeping all this under wraps...) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Well, it is very helpful to learn about this controlling behavior: > of things) to be " just so " . That came into my mind when I read about your > son's dictating dialog to you, and then becoming upset when you won't > deliver the message. These types of compulsions certainly look like > " control issues " and make a child seem inflexible/bossy, especially when you > look at the tantrum or other anxious upset when others won't comply. Last night my son was very upset that I wouldn't do this whispering statement etc. that I mentioned earlier. So I took your advice and told him I'd be back in a few minutes, and when I came back a altered it a bit and eventually he settled down without me needing to do the whole thing he wants. My husband said " I don't know why he does that! " which I was happy about actually because it seems like an opener to a future discussion about why he does it (why I think so anyways)! I think a lot of the problem with accepting that this is OCD is that my son's behaviors are these odd controlling/dictating compulsions much of the time, rather than checking or washing (which I see him doing more and more...we keep trying to pop those down too). You can see how my husband would just feel like that is, maybe, a 4 yr old obstinate behavior rather than a disorder. I've come to believe that it is OCD but that took a while of observation. I think you are right that the school already may have " ideas " and I'd love to know what they are, but if dh found me stirring things up there I think our conflict level at home would definitely increase (thereby making son worse!). It sure is hard to figure out what is OCD and what is just regular poor behavior. Right now I am considering almost everything OCD! Interesting that so many of you had this start at 4! I thought that was usually too young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 It's true that a 4 yr old will have fears and act out more than older children. I have a 7 yr old with OCD and a 5yr old (non-OCD). It is hard for me having a 7 yr old to tell some OCD behavior from that of normal childhood. I think each of us can describe some of our own " quirks " that you might say were OCD-like. That being said, sometimes it helps me to spend time with other 7 yr olds so that I can see what their behavior is like ect... I tend to label behaviors as OCD when they are persistent in nature, uncharacteristic, irrational, and/or and extreme (excess relative to the trigger). One thing I do know about OCD behaviors is that they are NOT rational. The compulsions or behaviors (i.e., whispering ect..) do not necessarily have anything to do with the thoughts. Because this is so, it is not worthwhile to try to talk someone out of their OCD thoughts. Doing so makes the person more anxious. For instance, my son fears becoming sick or injured. He says he repeats himself to " make sure that I get it right " . When asked what will happen if he doesn't repeat himself, he will say " I may throw up " . See what I mean? People with OCD are aware that their thoughts are irrational and yet feel helpless to stop them. This awareness causes them shame and more anxiety. It is a viscious cycle. Cognitive behavioral therapy acts to modify responses (of the individual and his significant others) to behaviors that stem from the OCD thoughts in order to break the association of the thought with the behavior and to lessen the overall anxiety that brought it on. It brings into awareness (cognition) the behaviors and their triggers and provides mechanisms or alternate behaviors for coping with anxiety in a healthier way. It is really tough at first to figure out what is happening. With help from your therapist and with the experience that time provides, it will become more clear to you. It will help if you can soak up all of the OCD literature available to you. Sometimes you can find some very practical information too that may help you deal with behaviors of concern. I wish you all the best, Bonnie. > > Well, it is very helpful to learn about this controlling behavior: > > > of things) to be " just so " . That came into my mind when I read > about your > > son's dictating dialog to you, and then becoming upset when you > won't > > deliver the message. These types of compulsions certainly look > like > > " control issues " and make a child seem inflexible/bossy, > especially when you > > look at the tantrum or other anxious upset when others won't > comply. > > Last night my son was very upset that I wouldn't do this whispering > statement etc. that I mentioned earlier. So I took your advice and > told him I'd be back in a few minutes, and when I came back a > altered it a bit and eventually he settled down without me needing > to do the whole thing he wants. My husband said " I don't know why he > does that! " which I was happy about actually because it seems like > an opener to a future discussion about why he does it (why I think > so anyways)! > > I think a lot of the problem with accepting that this is OCD is that > my son's behaviors are these odd controlling/dictating compulsions > much of the time, rather than checking or washing (which I see him > doing more and more...we keep trying to pop those down too). You can > see how my husband would just feel like that is, maybe, a 4 yr old > obstinate behavior rather than a disorder. I've come to believe that > it is OCD but that took a while of observation. > > I think you are right that the school already may have " ideas " and > I'd love to know what they are, but if dh found me stirring things > up there I think our conflict level at home would definitely > increase (thereby making son worse!). > > It sure is hard to figure out what is OCD and what is just regular > poor behavior. Right now I am considering almost everything OCD! > Interesting that so many of you had this start at 4! I thought that > was usually too young. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Kathy wrote: *****Surveys and studies have come up with various figures, but generally about half of adult OCDers remember that their symptoms started in childhood, often young childhood. What *is* unusual is for a child to have the benefit of early diagnosis and treatment. Years frequently pass before a child's " problems " or behavior finally bring them to the attention of teachers or parents. As kids get older, it can be harder and harder to deny odd OCD behaviors as normal, because they may stand out so from their peers. > > Take care, > Kathy R. in Indiana > This made me think of my husband. When his little brother was born (my dh was 4 1/2), he worried he would accidentally smother his brother with his pillow in the middle of the night, so he would take his pillow to his mother for safekeeping. He knew all throughout his childhood that he thought differently than others, but he didn't dare tell anyone. As an adult, after my son was diagnosed with OCD, my husband finally began to share his thoughts/fears - which were typical OCD (accidentally running over someone and getting out to check, and many more). I had always known he was a worrier and a little high strung, but I never knew he had the thoughts and did the checks he did - he had always covered his tracks. But, based on all I'm hearing now, I'm sure he had had it at least since he was 4 1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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