Re:some ideas on getting the fizz into your kombucha

[Guest guest]

Introducing GT (or apple-cider vinegar, or other fermnts) into your regular

fermnet does not create a simple addition. At least according to research by

Mocahel Rouissin (kombucha-research.com). Nor does it create a hybred. It

creates the predominance of the strongest species. With GT you will probably

get more lactic acid production which are from a different species of

bacteria and a different yeasts than typical kombucha. (according to GT

label: (Lactobacillus bacterium) lactic acid and yeast = Saccharomyces

boulardii) (S. boulardii is a noted probiotic used in pediactic diarrhea).

If you add Braggs Apple Cider you will get Acetobacter, but I am not sure of

the species. Typically kombucha has Acetobacter xylinum, or Acetobacter

gluconic which produce both acetic acid and gluconic acid. Not all species

of Acetobacter produce gluconic acid. Apple cider vinegar, or other vinegars

do not typically contain gluconic acid, which is the distinguishing between

vinegar and kombucha.

Fizz is attributed to the activity of the yeasts.

Probably a number of different yeasts may be used in kombucha but one

specific species has recently been identified. Zygosaccharomyces

kombuchaensis, a new ascosporogenous yeast isolated from Kombucha tea.

The yeasts are used to produce alcohol and carbon dioxide (fizz). Kombucha

Tea is a single step ferment. Simultaneous fermenting yeasts and bacteria.

This process is different than that used in the production of vinegar which

is a two step ferment. First the yeasts are used to produce alcohol, then

killed off (Cruel, eh) the bacteria are introduced converting the alcohol to

acetic acid. The bacteria are killed off (pasteurization/ more cruelty (

the Gluconacetobacter can convert sucrose directly into acetic acid and

gluconic acid but prefers alcohol over sugar. Hence a tidy but competitive

relationship to yeasts (who can survive in an acetic environment) and are

not killed off by their own high alcohol production (thanks to the

bacteria). But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic acid which we

seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce lactic acid but no

gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-oxygen environment. for

additional information on fermenting and the affects

http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

some ideas on getting the fizz into your kombucha

Posted by: " melody " melody2968@... melody2968

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:02 pm (PST)

I just read some place that if you take GT kombucha and innoculate a

media much like regular set up for kombucha you can start a new

mushroom. A gt mushroom!This person said they nursed it for six months

and now have a big beautiful one that produces fizz. I thought it was

interesting. ( pick one bottle that is already got a floater!)I am

going to try it on a small scale.You know how they sometimes make a new

one in a second ferment... I recently also just put some original

(w/out the flavoring) GT to my own during the ferment stage and I

believe it will assimilate the bugs from the Gt kombucha into its

colony (like cyborgs on star trek!). Already I see some fizz bubbling

up and this is the first ferment with no lid on it.I hope I am

successful! Cause no matter how I have bottled it never gets really

fizzy! I figure the yeasts may be lacking. I also figure adding the

original GT is like a pick me up for my SCOBY.Also, I have dealt with

the thin mushroom problem in the beginning and my solution is to add

raisins (about 2 of those extra small snack box versions) to your 4

quarts, and it really helped thicken it up.Got the whole family

drinking the stuff!

[Guest guest]

Introducing GT (or apple-cider vinegar, or other fermnts) into your regular

fermnet does not create a simple addition. At least according to research by

Mocahel Rouissin (kombucha-research.com). Nor does it create a hybred. It

creates the predominance of the strongest species. With GT you will probably

get more lactic acid production which are from a different species of

bacteria and a different yeasts than typical kombucha. (according to GT

label: (Lactobacillus bacterium) lactic acid and yeast = Saccharomyces

boulardii) (S. boulardii is a noted probiotic used in pediactic diarrhea).

If you add Braggs Apple Cider you will get Acetobacter, but I am not sure of

the species. Typically kombucha has Acetobacter xylinum, or Acetobacter

gluconic which produce both acetic acid and gluconic acid. Not all species

of Acetobacter produce gluconic acid. Apple cider vinegar, or other vinegars

do not typically contain gluconic acid, which is the distinguishing between

vinegar and kombucha.

Fizz is attributed to the activity of the yeasts.

Probably a number of different yeasts may be used in kombucha but one

specific species has recently been identified. Zygosaccharomyces

kombuchaensis, a new ascosporogenous yeast isolated from Kombucha tea.

The yeasts are used to produce alcohol and carbon dioxide (fizz). Kombucha

Tea is a single step ferment. Simultaneous fermenting yeasts and bacteria.

This process is different than that used in the production of vinegar which

is a two step ferment. First the yeasts are used to produce alcohol, then

killed off (Cruel, eh) the bacteria are introduced converting the alcohol to

acetic acid. The bacteria are killed off (pasteurization/ more cruelty (

the Gluconacetobacter can convert sucrose directly into acetic acid and

gluconic acid but prefers alcohol over sugar. Hence a tidy but competitive

relationship to yeasts (who can survive in an acetic environment) and are

not killed off by their own high alcohol production (thanks to the

bacteria). But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic acid which we

seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce lactic acid but no

gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-oxygen environment. for

additional information on fermenting and the affects

http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

some ideas on getting the fizz into your kombucha

Posted by: " melody " melody2968@... melody2968

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:02 pm (PST)

I just read some place that if you take GT kombucha and innoculate a

media much like regular set up for kombucha you can start a new

mushroom. A gt mushroom!This person said they nursed it for six months

and now have a big beautiful one that produces fizz. I thought it was

interesting. ( pick one bottle that is already got a floater!)I am

going to try it on a small scale.You know how they sometimes make a new

one in a second ferment... I recently also just put some original

(w/out the flavoring) GT to my own during the ferment stage and I

believe it will assimilate the bugs from the Gt kombucha into its

colony (like cyborgs on star trek!). Already I see some fizz bubbling

up and this is the first ferment with no lid on it.I hope I am

successful! Cause no matter how I have bottled it never gets really

fizzy! I figure the yeasts may be lacking. I also figure adding the

original GT is like a pick me up for my SCOBY.Also, I have dealt with

the thin mushroom problem in the beginning and my solution is to add

raisins (about 2 of those extra small snack box versions) to your 4

quarts, and it really helped thicken it up.Got the whole family

drinking the stuff!

[Guest guest]

But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic acid

which we seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce lactic

acid but no gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-

oxygen environment.

I'm pretty new to this, so I'd like to ask about my brew. I've been

using 3/4 C sugar and 1/2 C honey to about 14 cups tea. I am getting

an amazingly fizzy brew, It's like drinking a carbonated soda. Am I

killing some of the bacteria and if so, what do I need to change or

is it too late? I'm still getting nice thick SCOBY's and fermenting

about 8 days.

Also, people keep mentioning you shouldn't use honey. I belong to

Dom's kefir group and spend a lot of times on his sites. On his

kombucha site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kombucha.htm, he

talks about using honey for kombucha. I've also found out that honey

loses its bacteriacidal properties when diluted, only undiluted honey

is useful for wounds.

[Guest guest]

But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic acid

which we seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce lactic

acid but no gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-

oxygen environment.

I'm pretty new to this, so I'd like to ask about my brew. I've been

using 3/4 C sugar and 1/2 C honey to about 14 cups tea. I am getting

an amazingly fizzy brew, It's like drinking a carbonated soda. Am I

killing some of the bacteria and if so, what do I need to change or

is it too late? I'm still getting nice thick SCOBY's and fermenting

about 8 days.

Also, people keep mentioning you shouldn't use honey. I belong to

Dom's kefir group and spend a lot of times on his sites. On his

kombucha site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kombucha.htm, he

talks about using honey for kombucha. I've also found out that honey

loses its bacteriacidal properties when diluted, only undiluted honey

is useful for wounds.

[Guest guest]

Patty, welcome to the Art of Kombucha.

the wonderful Science of kombucha as I outlined below often escapes reality.

Unlike most other ferments kombucha is a simultaneous adventure of both

yeasts and bacteria. Getting this guts to play together often is a matter of

finesses, personal touch or luck. (and be ever mindful of 's Law) The

short of it, if you like what you're doing - keep doing it.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...........................................

some ideas on getting the fizz into your kombucha

Posted by: " Patty " mellowsong@... irishpatty54

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:01 am (PST)

But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic acid

which we seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce lactic

acid but no gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-

oxygen environment.

I'm pretty new to this, so I'd like to ask about my brew. I've been

using 3/4 C sugar and 1/2 C honey to about 14 cups tea. I am getting

an amazingly fizzy brew, It's like drinking a carbonated soda. Am I

killing some of the bacteria and if so, what do I need to change or

is it too late? I'm still getting nice thick SCOBY's and fermenting

about 8 days.

Also, people keep mentioning you shouldn't use honey. I belong to

Dom's kefir group and spend a lot of times on his sites. On his

kombucha site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kombucha.htm, he

talks about using honey for kombucha. I've also found out that honey

loses its bacteriacidal properties when diluted, only undiluted honey

is useful for wounds.

[Guest guest]

Patty, welcome to the Art of Kombucha.

the wonderful Science of kombucha as I outlined below often escapes reality.

Unlike most other ferments kombucha is a simultaneous adventure of both

yeasts and bacteria. Getting this guts to play together often is a matter of

finesses, personal touch or luck. (and be ever mindful of 's Law) The

short of it, if you like what you're doing - keep doing it.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...........................................

some ideas on getting the fizz into your kombucha

Posted by: " Patty " mellowsong@... irishpatty54

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:01 am (PST)

But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic acid

which we seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce lactic

acid but no gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-

oxygen environment.

I'm pretty new to this, so I'd like to ask about my brew. I've been

using 3/4 C sugar and 1/2 C honey to about 14 cups tea. I am getting

an amazingly fizzy brew, It's like drinking a carbonated soda. Am I

killing some of the bacteria and if so, what do I need to change or

is it too late? I'm still getting nice thick SCOBY's and fermenting

about 8 days.

Also, people keep mentioning you shouldn't use honey. I belong to

Dom's kefir group and spend a lot of times on his sites. On his

kombucha site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kombucha.htm, he

talks about using honey for kombucha. I've also found out that honey

loses its bacteriacidal properties when diluted, only undiluted honey

is useful for wounds.

[Guest guest]

That just shows that not everything you read is right. Honey kills

bacteria because it sucks the water out of them. So if you add water

to the same concentration as the soup inside the bacteria it has no

effect.

Re. Gloconb's if you've got the acid already then getting the brew

fizzy afterwards isn't going to affect the levels. They need oxygen

to produce the acid so bottling the brew is going to starve them of

oxygen anyway, so if you're worried about levels of that acid then

don't bottle your brew.

Personally I think there's middle ground. Good health, good taste

and experience in balance. You know just enjoying something will

boost your immune system even if it's just MnM's. That's been

scientifically proven BTW. I don't see the point in being on this

planet if I'm not happy while I'm here and for those that believe in

an after life how do you expect to be happy in the next life if you

don't learn to be happy in this one? Anyway that's getting off topic

and taking the subject too seriously.

Ken

>

> But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

> Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic

acid

> which we seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce

lactic

> acid but no gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-

> oxygen environment.

>

> I'm pretty new to this, so I'd like to ask about my brew. I've

been

> using 3/4 C sugar and 1/2 C honey to about 14 cups tea. I am

getting

> an amazingly fizzy brew, It's like drinking a carbonated soda. Am

I

> killing some of the bacteria and if so, what do I need to change

or

> is it too late? I'm still getting nice thick SCOBY's and

fermenting

> about 8 days.

>

> Also, people keep mentioning you shouldn't use honey. I belong to

> Dom's kefir group and spend a lot of times on his sites. On his

> kombucha site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kombucha.htm, he

> talks about using honey for kombucha. I've also found out that

honey

> loses its bacteriacidal properties when diluted, only undiluted

honey

> is useful for wounds.

>

[Guest guest]

That just shows that not everything you read is right. Honey kills

bacteria because it sucks the water out of them. So if you add water

to the same concentration as the soup inside the bacteria it has no

effect.

Re. Gloconb's if you've got the acid already then getting the brew

fizzy afterwards isn't going to affect the levels. They need oxygen

to produce the acid so bottling the brew is going to starve them of

oxygen anyway, so if you're worried about levels of that acid then

don't bottle your brew.

Personally I think there's middle ground. Good health, good taste

and experience in balance. You know just enjoying something will

boost your immune system even if it's just MnM's. That's been

scientifically proven BTW. I don't see the point in being on this

planet if I'm not happy while I'm here and for those that believe in

an after life how do you expect to be happy in the next life if you

don't learn to be happy in this one? Anyway that's getting off topic

and taking the subject too seriously.

Ken

>

> But too much fizz (carbon dioxide) will suffocate the

> Gluconacetobacter which require oxygen to produce the gluconic

acid

> which we seek. Now the Lactobacillus bacterium which produce

lactic

> acid but no gluconic acid is productive in either oxygen or non-

> oxygen environment.

>

> I'm pretty new to this, so I'd like to ask about my brew. I've

been

> using 3/4 C sugar and 1/2 C honey to about 14 cups tea. I am

getting

> an amazingly fizzy brew, It's like drinking a carbonated soda. Am

I

> killing some of the bacteria and if so, what do I need to change

or

> is it too late? I'm still getting nice thick SCOBY's and

fermenting

> about 8 days.

>

> Also, people keep mentioning you shouldn't use honey. I belong to

> Dom's kefir group and spend a lot of times on his sites. On his

> kombucha site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kombucha.htm, he

> talks about using honey for kombucha. I've also found out that

honey

> loses its bacteriacidal properties when diluted, only undiluted

honey

> is useful for wounds.

>