Re: General question about squash protocols

[Guest guest]

Dear kaz,

I too have read Demos book and it is

very good. I assume learned his neurofeedback in the EEG Spectrum style

of basic SMR training. He now concentrates primarily on Z-Score training. I

learned the 2 ch Squish and Squash protocols from and have used them

extensively. They work very well with the ramped up clients and I believe even

more so then the SMR training for those types of clients. Jeff

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of kazmapapa

Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:00

PM

Subject: General

question about squash protocols

Could someone explain to me the general goals of

squash/squish protocols and what exactly they are? Reading Demos's

" Getting Started with Neurofeedback " has been a very helpful jump

start but the book does not mention squash, squish, etc. The book was published

back in '05 so my concern is that I might be missing some useful new findings

that emerged since the publication.

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

If you will go to the list's homepage ( /messages )You can search for Squish Squash Windowed Squash.

In short, all 3 are 2-channel protocols that sum the channels into a single training signal that is to be reduced.Squash combines all EEG from 2-38 Hz from the 2 sitesSquish combines the EEG for a specific band (e.g. 2-5 Hz, 23-38 Hz) from the 2 sites.

Windowed Squash combines the full EEG from 2-38 Hz but leaves out a window that is not trained down (e.g. from 8-13 Hz)Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 3:00 PM, kazmapapa <kazmapapa@...> wrote:

 

Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols and what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with Neurofeedback " has been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash, squish, etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I might be missing some useful new findings that emerged since the publication.

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Is the basic idea of these protocols that reduction in sum leads to less

differences between the 4 locations (in case of 2-ch bipolar) involved, which in

turn leads to better coherence and overall balance between them?

>

> >

> >

> > Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols

> > and what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with

> > Neurofeedback " has been a very helpful jump start but the book does not

> > mention squash, squish, etc. The book was published back in '05 so my

> > concern is that I might be missing some useful new findings that emerged

> > since the publication.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> If you just decided that without any EEG

> evidence, then I would suggest you be very careful about fooling around with

> it.

> I have no clear sense that you have had a QEEG done or

> have done a TLC assessment or anything else to actually look at what the

> brain is currently doing before starting to try to change it, but certainly

> Demos and certainly I would strongly recommend doing something along

> those lines before you just start training.

Thanks for your concern, Pete, but maybe the reason I sounded stupid to you is

because I don't want be really stupid by shooting in the dark. I am still

learning and you are certainly 100 times knowledgeable than I am, and that's why

I still have to post basic questions, and I am very appreciative of your

assistance (and your patience at my blunt questions).

Part of TLC assessment (data collection under tasks) is not feasible with very

young kids who have autism. My kids were still very cooperative and I could

collect EO/EC data which clearly showed a typical picture of slow wave disorder

with elevated theta and hi beta peaking at CZ. One of the two also has a low

alpha issue which is also clearly seen in the data. Some contralateral

asymmetries were also found. So actually I don't think I am completely in the

dark; I am just in need of at least a little of protocol guidance that cannot be

found anywhere else. Maybe my previous question about F7/T5 coherence question

sounded stupid but with little-to-no info about coherence training and other

available protocols what could a new home trainer like myself ask? But at

least I was well aware of the fact many people warned risks involved in direct

coherence training. Thanks for giving me the same warning, though.

Thanks to your and other responses to my threads, I am gaining knowledge of

those safer, more useful approaches that I could not find in the book. I will

look into those TLC design diagrams so I can better understand the concepts

behind those protocols. Information that you provide in this forum is by far the

most valuable to me.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response. What is your typical per-session duration when

starting these squash/squish protocols? Also, do you use them along with other

protocols such as SMR, or only squash/squish first?

>

> Dear kaz,

>

>

>

> I too have read Demos book and it is very good. I assume learned

> his neurofeedback in the EEG Spectrum style of basic SMR training. He now

> concentrates primarily on Z-Score training. I learned the 2 ch Squish and

> Squash protocols from and have used them extensively. They work very

> well with the ramped up clients and I believe even more so then the SMR

> training for those types of clients. Jeff

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of kazmapapa

> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:00 PM

>

> Subject: General question about squash protocols

>

>

>

>

>

> Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols and

> what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with Neurofeedback "

> has been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash,

> squish, etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I

> might be missing some useful new findings that emerged since the

> publication.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

K, thanks-

> >

> > Dear kaz,

> >

> >

> >

> > I too have read Demos book and it is very good. I assume learned

> > his neurofeedback in the EEG Spectrum style of basic SMR training. He now

> > concentrates primarily on Z-Score training. I learned the 2 ch Squish and

> > Squash protocols from and have used them extensively. They work very

> > well with the ramped up clients and I believe even more so then the SMR

> > training for those types of clients. Jeff

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: <mailto:%40>

> [mailto: <mailto:%40>

> ] On

> > Behalf Of kazmapapa

> > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:00 PM

> > <mailto:%40>

> > Subject: General question about squash protocols

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols

> and

> > what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with

> Neurofeedback "

> > has been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash,

> > squish, etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I

> > might be missing some useful new findings that emerged since the

> > publication.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kaz+

IMHO, only the brain itself should be focused towards doing its

own " squash " protocols; not tampered with, by some outside human.

http://tinyurl.com/3al8p87

/ChuckD....

>

> Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols and

what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with Neurofeedback " has

been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash, squish,

etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I might be missing

some useful new findings that emerged since the publication.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Not sure if I understood you correctly. Are you saying that all the thresholds

should be set to auto in any " squash " design?

> >

> > Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols and

what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with Neurofeedback " has

been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash, squish,

etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I might be missing

some useful new findings that emerged since the publication.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You got that right and you're saying buy my services, Liz!

You don't know of a more powerful squash (activation) system.

/ChuckD....

> > > >

> > > > Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish

> > protocols and what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with

> > Neurofeedback " has been a very helpful jump start but the book does not

> > mention squash, squish, etc. The book was published back in '05 so my

> > concern is that I might be missing some useful new findings that emerged

> > since the publication.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No Kaz+

What I think I'm saying is that you will no longer have

to 'think' about the hunt and peck of squash, and focus

towards the training goals, to which you intend.

Essentially, the pROSHI becomes " invisible " , to the trainer.

/ChuckD....

> > >

> > > Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols

and what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with Neurofeedback "

has been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash, squish,

etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I might be missing

some useful new findings that emerged since the publication.

> > >

> > > Thank you.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread.

>

> Could someone explain to me the general goals of squash/squish protocols and

what exactly they are? Reading Demos's " Getting Started with Neurofeedback " has

been a very helpful jump start but the book does not mention squash, squish,

etc. The book was published back in '05 so my concern is that I might be missing

some useful new findings that emerged since the publication.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

Indeed, Liz+

The NeuroDynamic Activator® 'obsoletes' the need for a clinician/

trainer to fiddle around, with the heuristics of squish/squash/

splish/splash, and to use Tom Collura's Live Z-scores contemporaneously with the

pROSHI2+, to get some real, substantive

neurotherapy done.

/ChuckD....

>

> >

> >

> > Hmm...allow me to jump in here a bit.

> >

> > The pROSHI is not an EEG device of the type you're thinking; it is

> > an impressive device which uses goggles and either LED lights or a magnet

> > for training. It is portable, sophisticated, and hand-made. The

> > device operates independentlly--you don't need a computer, and it is not

> > used the same way you've learned to do neurofeedback--with 10/20 placements,

> > protocols, measurements of brainwave activity, etc.

> >

> > The pROSHI is uncomplicated to use, with the most important part at first

> > being how NOT to use it (don't get overly ambitious and think more is

> > better, for example; it's preferable to start out slowly with the pROSHI).

> > Despite its simple appearance, it's a powerful tool. One can use it alone

> > or as a supplement to NF training, and its results seem to me to be global,

> > meaning that it may achieve the results of either the squish or squash

> > protocols you wonder about without you ever realizing that's what it's done

> > (unless you measured changes using an EEG device, of course...and that was

> > done with the older version of the ROSHI).

> >

> > Trying to compare learning how to use NF with learning to use a pROSHI is

> > an apples and oranges comparison--the goals and outcome may be the same, but

> > the trip to the finish line is quite different.

> >

> > I've never seen a website for it, and you'll need to hunt to get

> > information on print about it--Jim ' handbook on neurofeedback is one

> > such source. I think sales go mostly word-of-mouth and through online

> > forums such as this. I got mine after trying someone else's and enjoying

> > how good I felt.

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

> > Tamera

> >

> >

> > MARKETPLACE

> >

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