Re: Need advice on small children

[Guest guest]

Connie,can you just say what this means, please? " for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great " I thought we were looking at meeting goals over the long(er) term. What are you defining as a great session? thanks

LizOn Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Connie <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

 

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.

Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.

Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.

I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.

I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults.

For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?

Thanks,

Connie

[Guest guest]

Liz, you should see some good trends the day of and the day after you run the protocol. Now it will get better with time but you should see some results fairly soon.

Connie Re: Need advice on small children

Connie,can you just say what this means, please?"for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great"I thought we were looking at meeting goals over the long(er) term. What are you defining as a great session? thanksLiz

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Connie <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults. For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?Thanks,Connie

[Guest guest]

Liz, I do run BioReview.

But these are subjective reports from the mom. When you hit a good protocol the mom will know. I use BioReview to look at what progress they may have made and if the training I am using is moving the brain. I choose protocols based on actual results.

Connie Re: Need advice on small children

Connie,can you just say what this means, please?"for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great"I thought we were looking at meeting goals over the long(er) term. What are you defining as a great session? thanksLiz

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Connie <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults. For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?Thanks,Connie

[Guest guest]

,

You are right, young kids are more complicated:)

With ADHD getting a child off meds, if you find the right protocol, How many times do you usually run it?

I was thinking get one or two protocols and run it for 40 times but I think that may be incorrect for young children. What do you see?

Connie Need advice on small children

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults. For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?Thanks,Connie

[Guest guest]

Connie,Are either of these children on medication(s)?  Have you looked for the signs of excess medication on whatever meds they are taking?  If after 25 sessions you are starting to see some problems (I'm not sure exactly what you mean by " getting mood issues " ), you may want to look at having the family work with their physician to try adjusting the meds.

Neurotransmitters have a response curve like an upside-down U.  On the vertical axis you have performance and on the horizontal axis you have level of the neurotransmitter.  When the level is low, performance drops off.  But when it is high, it also drops off.  The medication creates an artificial level of its target neurotransmitter, but your training is also changing the natural level in the brain.  It's very common for a client with a functional level of an NT with a particular med to start having too much when neurofeedback changes the naturally-occurring level.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Connie <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

 

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.

Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.

Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.

I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.

I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults.

For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?

Thanks,

Connie

[Guest guest]

One is still on some meds and I do think that it is complicating the matter. We are taking them all away and going to see what happens. The other no. I did try a new protocol you gave me so I am hoping that helps with this girl. I did it yesterday and we will see.

I guess in general, in your level 3 class, I understood to get one or two good protocols and just keep doing them. I am wondering that with children since their brain may be more plastic, do you have to alter the plan for them.

Most of my experience has been with 12 and older and I am just wondering if I need to adjust for the 7 year olds.

I will most likely ask you that today when we talk too

Connie Re: Need advice on small children

Connie,Are either of these children on medication(s)? Have you looked for the signs of excess medication on whatever meds they are taking? If after 25 sessions you are starting to see some problems (I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "getting mood issues"), you may want to look at having the family work with their physician to try adjusting the meds.Neurotransmitters have a response curve like an upside-down U. On the vertical axis you have performance and on the horizontal axis you have level of the neurotransmitter. When the level is low, performance drops off. But when it is high, it also drops off. The medication creates an artificial level of its target neurotransmitter, but your training is also changing the natural level in the brain. It's very common for a client with a functional level of an NT with a particular med to start having too much when neurofeedback changes the naturally-occurring level.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Connie <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults. For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?Thanks,Connie

[Guest guest]

Liz, Bioreview is important for me but ...

monitoring the actual results by talking with the mom and the kids and by my own observation is by far the best way to determine the direction.

Connie Re: Need advice on small children

Connie,can you just say what this means, please?

"for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great"

I thought we were looking at meeting goals over the long(er) term. What are you defining as a great session? thanksLiz

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Connie <conniewelsh@...> wrote:

Hi all, I started 2, 6 year olds about 25 sessions ago.I was able to make great benefits with both.Now, both are getting mood issues. For both I was training CZ and C4, 2 channel monopolar references. One I was training down 2-5 at both and 15-22 at C4,the other I was training down 2-7 and up 8-12 at CZ and also at C4.Both children had ADHD and high theta beta ratios to get started.I was wondering if I was throwing the balance off so for one child I did C3 and Cz one day. It was great but when I repeated it, it was not good.I am getting concerned about treating these small children. I thought I was doing well with both but now I am at a loss and starting to think that these young kids don't progress like adults. For adults and older children, I find the protocol and keep on going. Could I be overtraining?Thanks,Connie

[Guest guest]

Hi Connie, I try to be careful with the left side Vs right side arousal. If they are right handers with ADHD, hyperactivity, impulsivity etc. then they may not need left sided training. I would trial C3 it as you done, then if their next response is poor, as is common, then they are not tolerating that C3. I would then stick to the right side.Maybe single channel P4-C4 at alpha reward, maybe at that age, 5-9 Hz, inhibting 12 to 35 is a common protocol I use, otherwise T4-Fp2 rewarding 2-5 Hz and inhibiting 12-35 is always a good place to start too. You can drop or raise the reward band accordingly.I have found that a single session can show remarkable results, then the next session abysmal results. This usually tells me that the brain liked intervention, even at any site, but twice was too much. Thats when we start looking around for

more stable protocols. Let us know how this one goes please, it is such a common problem for all of us.RegardsNoel EastwoodPsychologistCanberra, Australiawww.nenfb.comBioexplorer Training videos:- Creating your own Basic Protocols in Bioexplorer, Getting started in Bioexplorer, Running and Screening Your Session in Bioexplorer