Re: Do you feel this world was designed for you?

[Guest guest]

I feel the same way.

But I don't think things are better in India. That is probably an old

Flower-Power illusion created by the likes of Maharishi to make money out of

gullible Westerners. According to a member who was born in India, there is

hardly a society on the planet more obsessed with social status and

unaccepting of neuro-difference. :-(

Though there is the odd sanctuary here and there, of course. Like Auroville:

http://www.auroville.org/

Inger

Re: Do you feel this world was designed for you?

my personal reply to this is YES, this world can be hard at times,

but it certainly also knows beauty and I feel in a way this world

also welcomes me by having created me and given me a chance to

exist... BUT: people made/make a mess out of this world! And this

society they've made is definitely NOT made for me and I haven't

found a society yet (maybe India?) where I'd feel more comfortable,

accepted, respected, welcome, home, and not treated like totally

inferior and essentially unnecessary and unwanted.... but as I said,

I think nature is less cruel to me than homo sapiens (as in it is

possible to create a society which is both kind to its members as it

is in balance with nature as well, but this current society is

neither a home to me, nor does it treat nature well). That's my

current view on things.

I have to go now, almost finished with work... )) but I'll read

more when home. Very good question!! Food for thought

bye bye

maYa

> I don't.

>

> If I had it my way it would be much different. It would be

primarily

> rural and agrarian without commercialism.

>

> It would also be quiet and peaceful.

>

> In fact, there would be laws in effect ordering that all people

remain

> as quiet as possible when speaking in public.

>

> I could think of loads of things I could ad here, but I'm wondering

if

> anyone else has anything to contribute.

>

> Tom

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

I feel the same way.

But I don't think things are better in India. That is probably an old

Flower-Power illusion created by the likes of Maharishi to make money out of

gullible Westerners. According to a member who was born in India, there is

hardly a society on the planet more obsessed with social status and

unaccepting of neuro-difference. :-(

Though there is the odd sanctuary here and there, of course. Like Auroville:

http://www.auroville.org/

Inger

Re: Do you feel this world was designed for you?

my personal reply to this is YES, this world can be hard at times,

but it certainly also knows beauty and I feel in a way this world

also welcomes me by having created me and given me a chance to

exist... BUT: people made/make a mess out of this world! And this

society they've made is definitely NOT made for me and I haven't

found a society yet (maybe India?) where I'd feel more comfortable,

accepted, respected, welcome, home, and not treated like totally

inferior and essentially unnecessary and unwanted.... but as I said,

I think nature is less cruel to me than homo sapiens (as in it is

possible to create a society which is both kind to its members as it

is in balance with nature as well, but this current society is

neither a home to me, nor does it treat nature well). That's my

current view on things.

I have to go now, almost finished with work... )) but I'll read

more when home. Very good question!! Food for thought

bye bye

maYa

> I don't.

>

> If I had it my way it would be much different. It would be

primarily

> rural and agrarian without commercialism.

>

> It would also be quiet and peaceful.

>

> In fact, there would be laws in effect ordering that all people

remain

> as quiet as possible when speaking in public.

>

> I could think of loads of things I could ad here, but I'm wondering

if

> anyone else has anything to contribute.

>

> Tom

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

maYa wrote:

> As for " ambition " . I was attacked very much on that point when I was

depressed and uttered some words of low selfesteem. I was actually

told (partially behind my back, I heard from the person it was told

to) that " I could draw, at least that's something " - as if, I need to

be good at something to be worth anything. not just that, the person

suggested I'd use that to sortof proove myself worthy of life by

becoming succesful in it... (after I was actually told by the same

person what a complete misfit I am!!!)

How annoying! :-((

> well, you can guess, if I do that, focus on one trait, my entire

> selfesteem would be based on that

specific trait, so if I see anyone is better at drawing (and a looooot of

individuals are better at drawing imo) than I'd feel bad (cause I'd not be

'indispensable' but essentially 'not good enough')

Right!

> so this 'advice' didn't really help and I'm pretty much stuck with an

> inferiority-complex actually and didn't find a cure yet!! so if anyone

> has a better idea than the above (n.arcissistic i.ntervention

t.echnique), please mention!

LOL! Great name for it!

What has worked for me is to just accept myself AS I AM. What made all the

difference was the day I woke up and realized that one does not necessarily

HAVE TO be anywhere near perfect to have a right to exist. That it is

actually ok to not be so strong, social, capable, physically perfect or

smart. That it's ok to have flaws and disabilities. This insight I got at a

time when I was totally incapacitated & non-verbal and felt completely

helpless. It made me have compassion and understanding for myself instead of

beating myself up for every little mistake I have ever made as I used to

before. I figured I was still OK even though I was at the very bottom of the

heap. It was actually a very liberating experience to be good as nothing in

the eyes of the world and still be able to feel valuable anyway.

> Also good reasons for me not to do it: drawing for me is also fun, a

method of self-expression, selfhelp-therapy and a way of communicating

my experiences, feelings and ideas to others. I want it to stay that

way. How can I enjoy and how can I be honest in expression and

communication if I feel it's constantly being esthetically evaluated,

instead of being UNDERSTOOD?!? I don't mind making 'pretty things',

but I also want these things to be seen in the value they have for me,

their emotional value to me. And this is something I don't feel is

understood at all in society. That what I make is symbolic,

communication, it has meaning. It's self-expression. It's real value

to me lies in being understood, or maybe in giving joy or relief to

another, but not in being evaluated on 'appearance'. I want to know:

do you understand? Do you agree on this topic? Do you feel the same?

Do we share something? Could we be friends? Could we make something

together? Not: 'is this pretty enough according to you?'

This is the problem for many an artist. The pressure to be productive and

produce something for OTHERS rather than just as a joy and an expression of

oneself. I think that is why so many artistic people, including musicians,

actors, writers etc. develop drug- and other problems. They are under such

enormous pressure, first to be heard/seen/read and be able to make a living,

and then when/if they finally 'make it', to be almost a prostitute and

produce upon public demand instead of being guided by inspiration alone.

This planet really does not seem to be a friendly place for original,

creative and sensitive people.

> my biggest problem with society/humanity - it evaluates, but it doesn't

> know how to feel true compassion.

Right!

> It bases its entire moral and self/other-evaluative system on old habits,

> written doctrine,

unnaturally invented 'templates' of what 'ought to be best' and economic

pressure from rich ppl who want to be richer - which it then forces UPON its

members (and INTO its members by brainwashing), without experiencing

internal ethical evolution or heartfelt compassion, understanding or care

for others (or oneself).

Yep. Very well described!

> *am I frustrated or what?* ::]

Me too! Though I opt to not dwell on it too much nowadays. I try to make the

best of the situation as it is and to see what little I can do to help

improve it.

Inger

[Guest guest]

maYa wrote:

> As for " ambition " . I was attacked very much on that point when I was

depressed and uttered some words of low selfesteem. I was actually

told (partially behind my back, I heard from the person it was told

to) that " I could draw, at least that's something " - as if, I need to

be good at something to be worth anything. not just that, the person

suggested I'd use that to sortof proove myself worthy of life by

becoming succesful in it... (after I was actually told by the same

person what a complete misfit I am!!!)

How annoying! :-((

> well, you can guess, if I do that, focus on one trait, my entire

> selfesteem would be based on that

specific trait, so if I see anyone is better at drawing (and a looooot of

individuals are better at drawing imo) than I'd feel bad (cause I'd not be

'indispensable' but essentially 'not good enough')

Right!

> so this 'advice' didn't really help and I'm pretty much stuck with an

> inferiority-complex actually and didn't find a cure yet!! so if anyone

> has a better idea than the above (n.arcissistic i.ntervention

t.echnique), please mention!

LOL! Great name for it!

What has worked for me is to just accept myself AS I AM. What made all the

difference was the day I woke up and realized that one does not necessarily

HAVE TO be anywhere near perfect to have a right to exist. That it is

actually ok to not be so strong, social, capable, physically perfect or

smart. That it's ok to have flaws and disabilities. This insight I got at a

time when I was totally incapacitated & non-verbal and felt completely

helpless. It made me have compassion and understanding for myself instead of

beating myself up for every little mistake I have ever made as I used to

before. I figured I was still OK even though I was at the very bottom of the

heap. It was actually a very liberating experience to be good as nothing in

the eyes of the world and still be able to feel valuable anyway.

> Also good reasons for me not to do it: drawing for me is also fun, a

method of self-expression, selfhelp-therapy and a way of communicating

my experiences, feelings and ideas to others. I want it to stay that

way. How can I enjoy and how can I be honest in expression and

communication if I feel it's constantly being esthetically evaluated,

instead of being UNDERSTOOD?!? I don't mind making 'pretty things',

but I also want these things to be seen in the value they have for me,

their emotional value to me. And this is something I don't feel is

understood at all in society. That what I make is symbolic,

communication, it has meaning. It's self-expression. It's real value

to me lies in being understood, or maybe in giving joy or relief to

another, but not in being evaluated on 'appearance'. I want to know:

do you understand? Do you agree on this topic? Do you feel the same?

Do we share something? Could we be friends? Could we make something

together? Not: 'is this pretty enough according to you?'

This is the problem for many an artist. The pressure to be productive and

produce something for OTHERS rather than just as a joy and an expression of

oneself. I think that is why so many artistic people, including musicians,

actors, writers etc. develop drug- and other problems. They are under such

enormous pressure, first to be heard/seen/read and be able to make a living,

and then when/if they finally 'make it', to be almost a prostitute and

produce upon public demand instead of being guided by inspiration alone.

This planet really does not seem to be a friendly place for original,

creative and sensitive people.

> my biggest problem with society/humanity - it evaluates, but it doesn't

> know how to feel true compassion.

Right!

> It bases its entire moral and self/other-evaluative system on old habits,

> written doctrine,

unnaturally invented 'templates' of what 'ought to be best' and economic

pressure from rich ppl who want to be richer - which it then forces UPON its

members (and INTO its members by brainwashing), without experiencing

internal ethical evolution or heartfelt compassion, understanding or care

for others (or oneself).

Yep. Very well described!

> *am I frustrated or what?* ::]

Me too! Though I opt to not dwell on it too much nowadays. I try to make the

best of the situation as it is and to see what little I can do to help

improve it.

Inger

[Guest guest]

maYa wrote:

> As for " ambition " . I was attacked very much on that point when I was

depressed and uttered some words of low selfesteem. I was actually

told (partially behind my back, I heard from the person it was told

to) that " I could draw, at least that's something " - as if, I need to

be good at something to be worth anything. not just that, the person

suggested I'd use that to sortof proove myself worthy of life by

becoming succesful in it... (after I was actually told by the same

person what a complete misfit I am!!!)

How annoying! :-((

> well, you can guess, if I do that, focus on one trait, my entire

> selfesteem would be based on that

specific trait, so if I see anyone is better at drawing (and a looooot of

individuals are better at drawing imo) than I'd feel bad (cause I'd not be

'indispensable' but essentially 'not good enough')

Right!

> so this 'advice' didn't really help and I'm pretty much stuck with an

> inferiority-complex actually and didn't find a cure yet!! so if anyone

> has a better idea than the above (n.arcissistic i.ntervention

t.echnique), please mention!

LOL! Great name for it!

What has worked for me is to just accept myself AS I AM. What made all the

difference was the day I woke up and realized that one does not necessarily

HAVE TO be anywhere near perfect to have a right to exist. That it is

actually ok to not be so strong, social, capable, physically perfect or

smart. That it's ok to have flaws and disabilities. This insight I got at a

time when I was totally incapacitated & non-verbal and felt completely

helpless. It made me have compassion and understanding for myself instead of

beating myself up for every little mistake I have ever made as I used to

before. I figured I was still OK even though I was at the very bottom of the

heap. It was actually a very liberating experience to be good as nothing in

the eyes of the world and still be able to feel valuable anyway.

> Also good reasons for me not to do it: drawing for me is also fun, a

method of self-expression, selfhelp-therapy and a way of communicating

my experiences, feelings and ideas to others. I want it to stay that

way. How can I enjoy and how can I be honest in expression and

communication if I feel it's constantly being esthetically evaluated,

instead of being UNDERSTOOD?!? I don't mind making 'pretty things',

but I also want these things to be seen in the value they have for me,

their emotional value to me. And this is something I don't feel is

understood at all in society. That what I make is symbolic,

communication, it has meaning. It's self-expression. It's real value

to me lies in being understood, or maybe in giving joy or relief to

another, but not in being evaluated on 'appearance'. I want to know:

do you understand? Do you agree on this topic? Do you feel the same?

Do we share something? Could we be friends? Could we make something

together? Not: 'is this pretty enough according to you?'

This is the problem for many an artist. The pressure to be productive and

produce something for OTHERS rather than just as a joy and an expression of

oneself. I think that is why so many artistic people, including musicians,

actors, writers etc. develop drug- and other problems. They are under such

enormous pressure, first to be heard/seen/read and be able to make a living,

and then when/if they finally 'make it', to be almost a prostitute and

produce upon public demand instead of being guided by inspiration alone.

This planet really does not seem to be a friendly place for original,

creative and sensitive people.

> my biggest problem with society/humanity - it evaluates, but it doesn't

> know how to feel true compassion.

Right!

> It bases its entire moral and self/other-evaluative system on old habits,

> written doctrine,

unnaturally invented 'templates' of what 'ought to be best' and economic

pressure from rich ppl who want to be richer - which it then forces UPON its

members (and INTO its members by brainwashing), without experiencing

internal ethical evolution or heartfelt compassion, understanding or care

for others (or oneself).

Yep. Very well described!

> *am I frustrated or what?* ::]

Me too! Though I opt to not dwell on it too much nowadays. I try to make the

best of the situation as it is and to see what little I can do to help

improve it.

Inger

[Guest guest]

yeah, you're probably right, I was more thinking of cleaning temples

and chanting all day long (in trance state, my speciality! ) I guess

we'll just have to create our own society then )))

> I feel the same way.

>

> But I don't think things are better in India.

[Guest guest]

> Out of body experience?

it felt like... floating ) I was just focusing on one point on the

ceiling and wanted to reach that point and then I lifted and touched

it and went down again, where my mom found me on the bed )

[Guest guest]

absolutely, it's also very healthy to be creative! I must admit

though, I am since a couple of years very 'unproductive' which is also

a big concern of mine, I'd love to be creative again, but... can't

somehow find the will or inspiration to do it. This is since 5 years

actually, since the depression, I still didn't get my inspiration,

freedom in visual expression or motivation to make things back. I have

a block! :|

> Mmmmmmm artwork and other creative endevours. I have always drawn,

> done artwork and writing etc - but I did it for me - partly for

> enjoyment and partly as an expression - because I found verbalising

> very difficult.

[Guest guest]

Cool! I love that floating feeling! In my " flying dreams " I don't so often

fly as float in the air. And I'm usually the only one who can in those

dreams. I get equally thrilled each time.

Once when I was a kid I dreamed (?) that I was got up and bumped into mom on

her way to the bathroom. It frightened her. I wanted to tell her " it's only

me, I'm not a ghost " but I couldn't because I didn't have a body to speak

with. Hmmm?

Inger

Re: Do you feel this world was designed for you?

> Out of body experience?

it felt like... floating ) I was just focusing on one point on the

ceiling and wanted to reach that point and then I lifted and touched

it and went down again, where my mom found me on the bed )

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

There are many ways of being creative though. I believe things come in

cycles and that when one cycle is finished, it is time for a new form of

expression and focus. I used to draw and paint all the time when I was

younger, but now I just can't do it anymore.

But instead I am creative in other ways; I love little practical challenges

where I really have to use my creativity to come up with a solution and

preferably be able to make something of what I've got. I am never as happy

as when I figure out a way to recycle something useless into something

useful.

I'm usually very unconventional since I refuse to let myself be limited by

what you're 'supposed' to do. In fact, most of the time I'm blissfully

unaware of what you're 'supposed' to do so I just do whatever comes into my

head - mostly with great results when it comes to practical things, and

not-always-with-such-great-results when it comes to social matters. :-)

Inger

Re: Do you feel this world was designed for you?

absolutely, it's also very healthy to be creative! I must admit

though, I am since a couple of years very 'unproductive' which is also

a big concern of mine, I'd love to be creative again, but... can't

somehow find the will or inspiration to do it. This is since 5 years

actually, since the depression, I still didn't get my inspiration,

freedom in visual expression or motivation to make things back. I have

a block! :|

> Mmmmmmm artwork and other creative endevours. I have always drawn,

> done artwork and writing etc - but I did it for me - partly for

> enjoyment and partly as an expression - because I found verbalising

> very difficult.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the

folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

[Guest guest]

I remember one dream I had where I was above a desert. There were isolated forests, mountains and an oasis. I was flying and could zoom in on the people. The people had blackish-grey clothes on and they were talking to hawks, crows and eagles. It was kinda cool. Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote:

Cool! I love that floating feeling! In my "flying dreams" I don't so often fly as float in the air. And I'm usually the only one who can in those dreams. I get equally thrilled each time.Once when I was a kid I dreamed (?) that I was got up and bumped into mom on her way to the bathroom. It frightened her. I wanted to tell her "it's only me, I'm not a ghost" but I couldn't because I didn't have a body to speak with. Hmmm?Inger Re: Do you feel this world was designed for you?> Out of body experience?it felt

like... floating ) I was just focusing on one point on theceiling and wanted to reach that point and then I lifted and touchedit and went down again, where my mom found me on the bed )FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Just out of curiosity - are you on any medication? like for

depression, anxiety that sort of stuff? I have heard some say that

can have an affect on creativity.

> > Mmmmmmm artwork and other creative endevours. I have always

drawn,

> > done artwork and writing etc - but I did it for me - partly for

> > enjoyment and partly as an expression - because I found

verbalising

> > very difficult.

[Guest guest]

Have you tried doing some other kind of art or creative thing?

Perhaps making art in a different media or a different style or

choosing a different subject for your drawing?

I have done some drawing on and off, but found it hard to keep with

it. Currently I use crafts as a creative outlet. It somehow seems

more natural to me than drawing. I also realize now a few things that

I did wrong in my attempts to be an artist. I realize that the human

face doesn't really have much appeal to me, that I have trouble

differentiating difference in people's facial features (I am probably

face blind, at least to some degree) and have trouble getting the

expressions right on people's faces (not surprising concidering I have

a hard time telling many expressions in real life). Maybe if I

strated out drawing machines or buildings, I would have kept at it.

I have also found that coloring helps me to relax. It might be a way

for you to get back into drawing, by working with pencils or markers

or whatever you like to use.

I also find it helps not to compair yourself to anyone else. Instead

I compair myself to my previous efforts. For example, I might say,

this has improved a lot from what I did a couple years ago.

Ilah

> > Mmmmmmm artwork and other creative endevours. I have always drawn,

> > done artwork and writing etc - but I did it for me - partly for

> > enjoyment and partly as an expression - because I found

verbalising

> > very difficult.

[Guest guest]

and I do have a tendency to do a lot of

> writing - my brain has trouble stopping thinking.

ay, that is very familiar!

although doing visual artwork in therapy setting actually helped me

to think less at moments, also a creative course helped me. The

therapy was to get in touch with my feelings instead of thinking a

lot and also to get in touch with my Core Self, and the course I did

was about focusing on an object and drawing/painting/sculpturing that

object as it is, which is in a way similar to going into a trance

state (you focus on the details of the object and you loose yourself

into these forms etc). I'd be utterly unresponsive when drawing at

the course I miss it! But I also dance now one evening a week and

two courses is just too much for me at the moment.

> I also sometimes feel guilty if I do something for myself or

> creative - like I should be doing something else or dreaded

housework.

very familiar problem! The therapy was a good excuse!! ) I

sometimes still use the excuse, as in I give myself an assignment to

dig into a certain feeling, as to help myself on a psychological

level. As long as it serves some kind of higher purpose I have more

time for it :\ I wish I could allow myself more to do stuff for fun,

but I also stim a lot in my pacing-manner, so I end up having too

little time for anything lately.

> " I'm not going to tell here elaborately about my latest parable of

my

> mind being a labyrinth :]

>

> well.. "

>

> I wouldn't mind hearing it :-) I always liken my thinking to a

spider

> web - all these strings leading off from a starting point - kind of

> like mind mapping, I think?

>

>

Yeah, mind mapping, good one! ok, in short.. copy-pasted from my

notes..

my memories are now my comfort though, even the bad ones... They are

the only bit of certainty I have left, something I recognize,

something I know, in my mind. A sign, a continuity, a hint, a piece

of my old reality.. The rest is pretty much chaotic, distorted, ever

shifting paths and everchanging rooms and the everlasting cycle of

day and night using its powers of visual distortion making me loose

my way each time in this labyrinth I am caught in. As I said before,

like each time, my view is shifted completely, like fragments of a

greater whole... but they are just the instable walls within a

labyrinth, temporary signs, I need to keep an eye on, before I loose

my way completely. Having found things from my past comforts me. It

tells me I am still me.

[Guest guest]

Physical activity can help me stop thinking for a while, though it helps also to focus on what I am doing or just humming in my head. Heavy work is better for me than light, so carrying bags of stuff is better than dusting. Sorting things also works somewhat. If I sort books or something like that, the concentration helps cut back the other thoughts.

Lastly, sometimes making things by hand works too. Model kits tend to be too intricate for my poor fine motor skills, but assembling larger things or building things from scratch also works. Again it is the concentration required to do the job right that seems to be the trick. Besides, my mother and others think it is funny that I can use my feet to help with larger projects. For example, when I was putting together a metal storage shelf thing, I could use my toes like an extra set of hands to hold pieces in place while my hands were doing other work, or to pick up parts that I needed. I do that on purpose because it challenges the brain to work in new ways which helps keep it fit. Mind you though, my feet are only good for gross motions like picking up tools or holding things in place. I can't use them for detailed things.