Re: AS in Academia

[Guest guest]

The response I posted in the Family Forum to this item when it was

posted there:

Amy and Everyone,

I SINCERELY hope that you read this post.

I agree with your assessment of this article.

While it is very well written, it's poorly researched and also

generalized.

This is the statement that gets me:

" But most people who have been diagnosed with Asperger's simply have

to be taught, through years of counseling and therapy, how to conduct

themselves appropriately in social and public situations. "

Wrong.

There is a spectrum of people with AS just like AS is part of the

autistic spectrum. " Years of counseling and therapy " on " how to

conduct themselves appropriately " is hardly needed. What IS needed is

coping mechanisms to deal with how OTHER people conduct themselves.

THAT'S what I got therapy for. YEARS of therapy.

Many AS people see neurotypicals as erratic and with short attention

spans, switching topics almost at random during conversations JUST

when they begin to get interesting as if to throw off whom it is they

are talking to.

The AS person waits patiently for the speaker to get done before

responding to what has been said, but the speaker, not understanding

this most basic courtesy, continues talking. When the AS person

finally gets two words in edgewise, the speaker interupts and changes

the subject.

Some NT people have a tendency to speak with a voice that is way too

loud, as if they know the words themselves carry too little weight to

be worth listening to, and must instead by broadcasted at a high

volume to maximize impact.

And then, much of the time, the words themselves are spoken in the

context of a social setting completely inappropriate for the

conversation at hand. The time to talk about a friend's grotesque

lingering death can hardly be during a family picnic while half drunk

men tell dirty jokes, children chase themselves between you with

squirt guns firing, and bubbly third rate seventies love songs blare

in the background full blast.

In short, from the AS perspective, many NTs are extrememly rude,

socially maladjusted, and hopelessly clueless about social

ettiquette.

But most of us are too polite to say so.

Let me give you a specific instance to illustrate MY point of view.

This actually happened:

Mom (who is NOT AS): " Tell Aunt Shirley about your friend. "

Tom (who IS AS): (Shakes head gives look that indicates: Don't start

with me. I can see what's happening. I have been enjoying myself at

this family picnic, sitting in a folding chair, quietly observing my

relatives and learning much from listening in on their conversations.

I have not really spoken to too many people except my cousin Steve.

He is a producer for a TV show on birds. So we talked about birds

quite a bit. But now, my mother, seeing that I am embarassing her by

not being a social butterfly, and trying to give me an " in " with the

family to increase my social status, wants to tell the " Gee whiz,

bang " , story about how my conservationist friend fell off a cliff and

died of exposure while rock climing in New Zealand. I have the

article

that was published in the newpaper after it happened. And even though

my mother knows his parents, and has read the article, she still

screws up the facts whenever she tells the story.)

Aunt Shirley (who is NOT AS either): (Holds beer lopsided. Some falls

over the edge. She is unaware of this.) " What about his friend? "

Tom: " She doesn't want to hear the story and I don't want to tell it.

Let's change the subject. "

Mom: (Gives me an extrememly dirty look.) " Well don't talk then. Just

sit there and look glum. " (Drinks from her own beer and proceeds

anyway.) " His name was Andy. And he- "

Aunt Shriley: " WAS? Don't you mean IS? "

Mom: (Nods head, then shakes it. Has gloating smile. It is clear she

is looking forward to dropping the explosive bombshell.) " He fell off

a cliff and died while Rock climbing in New Zealand. "

Aunt Shirley: (Holds hand to her heart. Inhales deeply.) " And his

name

was you say? "

Tom: (Wondering why my Aunt would even care what his name was. She's

so drunk that she will hardly remember this conversation three days

from now.) " No Andy, " I say, but by this time, no one is listening.

Uncle Bob: (To my mother) " Hey Lady, what do you call five blondes at

the bottom of the pool?

Mom: " What? "

Uncle Bob: " Air bubbles. "

Mom: (Laughs and bats a hand at him. Then says) " What do you call a

man with no arms and no legs in a swimming pool? "

Uncle Bob: " What? "

Mom: " Bob! "

Hysterical laughs all around, especially by Uncle " Bob. "

Aunt Shirley: (Sunddenly turning serious. Assumes tragically grave

expression, as though hamming for a movie.) " died you say? And

this was in New York? Where are there cliffs in New York? "

Tom: " New Zealand. Not New York. "

Mom: " I thought you said you didn't want to tell the story. Just be

quiet and let me tell it properly. "

Tom: " Except you're not telling it properly are you? You never do,

actually. "

Mom: " What difference does it make whether I tell it properly or not?

The point is he fell off a cliff and died. "

Aunt Shirley: (Raises a skeptical eyebrow.) " In New Yrok, right? Are

you pulling my leg? "

Tom: " New Zealand. "

Mom: " Shut up already. "

Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) " Where the Christ is New Zealand? "

Mom: " It's an Island off the coast of Africa. "

Tom: " You're thinking of Madagascar. New Zealand is off of

Australia. "

Mom: " See this is what I mean about his AS. He is always nitpicking

at

details. Who the hell cares where it was the guy died? The point is

he died. Right? The point is he broke his leg. "

Tom: " Hip. "

Mom: " Whatever. Died of exposure. "

Aunt Shirley: " What's exposure? "

Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) " Want me to show you? Let's go over there

behind the outhouse. "

Hysterical laughter during which both Mom and Aunt Shirley spill more

beer.

Mom: " It took two hours before they found him. "

Tom: " Days. "

Mom: " Whatever. "

Tom: " It makes a significant difference mom. Two hours and he'd be

pretty much in tact. But two days and he's a blackened frozen corpse

that's been partially picked apart by birds. That was how he was

found. Most definiely not intact. "

Mom: " You are being gross and you are embarassing me. Now keep your

mouth shut. "

Tom: " Just to make things clear " (I say as a train of kids zigzags

between us shooting water guns at each other.) " He was climbing

rocks.

He fell off. He died. Whatever. Right? "

One of the kids stops.

Kid: " Who died? "

Tom: " My best friend. "

Kid: " Oh. Whatever. " (Squirts me in the face with his water gun,

laughs, and moves on.)

Tom: " You shoot me with that thing again I and I will break it into a

thousand pieces. "

Mom: " Will you stop being so G*d d*amned RUDE to everyone! Learn some

manners. "

Aunt Shirley: (To my mother) " Lighten up Carol. He's got AS. he

doesn't know any better. " (Walks off).

Mom: (Turns to me.) " None of this had to happen if you would have

just

TOLD G*D D*MN story. "

Tom: " Mother. You're drunk. So I'm not going to entertain you right

now. You want to talk about this. We'll do it when you're sober so

you

can understand MY point of view. "

Mom: " Your point of view. Your point of view. Your point of view. All

we ever hear is your point of view. No one CARES about your point of

view. That's why you've got no friends. MY point of view always

interests people. Your's never does. "

Tom: " Like flies to BS, it does. Get out of my way please. I'm going

home. "

This is a true story.

Tom

... from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

(so much for embracing diversity ...)

Amy

[Guest guest]

I will learn how to act appropriately amougst the Norms when they learn to become less:

Boring. Loud.

Simplistic. Dumb.

Mediocre. Non Sincere.

Gossipy. Cruel.

Dishonest. Disingenuous.

Although my attitude has alienated me from alot of people, including family, I have found when I do meet people of the same "wave length" those friendships blossom.

I dont really give a rats rectum for social status quo.

I think alot of people become mediocre when they think and act too much to please their peers.

Anyone agree?

Shaun.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

The response I posted in the Family Forum to this item when it was posted there:Amy and Everyone,I SINCERELY hope that you read this post.I agree with your assessment of this article.While it is very well written, it's poorly researched and alsogeneralized.This is the statement that gets me:"But most people who have been diagnosed with Asperger's simply haveto be taught, through years of counseling and therapy, how to conductthemselves appropriately in social and public situations."Wrong.There is a spectrum of people with AS just like AS is part of theautistic spectrum. "Years of counseling and therapy" on "how toconduct themselves appropriately" is hardly needed. What IS needed iscoping mechanisms to deal with how OTHER people conduct themselves.THAT'S what I got therapy for. YEARS

of therapy.Many AS people see neurotypicals as erratic and with short attentionspans, switching topics almost at random during conversations JUSTwhen they begin to get interesting as if to throw off whom it is theyare talking to.The AS person waits patiently for the speaker to get done beforeresponding to what has been said, but the speaker, not understandingthis most basic courtesy, continues talking. When the AS personfinally gets two words in edgewise, the speaker interupts and changesthe subject.Some NT people have a tendency to speak with a voice that is way tooloud, as if they know the words themselves carry too little weight tobe worth listening to, and must instead by broadcasted at a highvolume to maximize impact.And then, much of the time, the words themselves are spoken in thecontext of a social setting completely inappropriate for theconversation at hand. The time to talk about a friend's

grotesquelingering death can hardly be during a family picnic while half drunkmen tell dirty jokes, children chase themselves between you withsquirt guns firing, and bubbly third rate seventies love songs blarein the background full blast.In short, from the AS perspective, many NTs are extrememly rude,socially maladjusted, and hopelessly clueless about social ettiquette.But most of us are too polite to say so.Let me give you a specific instance to illustrate MY point of view.This actually happened:Mom (who is NOT AS): "Tell Aunt Shirley about your friend."Tom (who IS AS): (Shakes head gives look that indicates: Don't startwith me. I can see what's happening. I have been enjoying myself atthis family picnic, sitting in a folding chair, quietly observing myrelatives and learning much from listening in on their conversations.I have not really spoken to too many people except my cousin Steve.He is a

producer for a TV show on birds. So we talked about birdsquite a bit. But now, my mother, seeing that I am embarassing her bynot being a social butterfly, and trying to give me an "in" with thefamily to increase my social status, wants to tell the "Gee whiz,bang", story about how my conservationist friend fell off a cliff anddied of exposure while rock climing in New Zealand. I have the articlethat was published in the newpaper after it happened. And even thoughmy mother knows his parents, and has read the article, she stillscrews up the facts whenever she tells the story.)Aunt Shirley (who is NOT AS either): (Holds beer lopsided. Some fallsover the edge. She is unaware of this.) "What about his friend?"Tom: "She doesn't want to hear the story and I don't want to tell it.Let's change the subject."Mom: (Gives me an extrememly dirty look.) "Well don't talk then. Justsit there and look glum." (Drinks from her own

beer and proceedsanyway.) "His name was Andy. And he-"Aunt Shriley: "WAS? Don't you mean IS?"Mom: (Nods head, then shakes it. Has gloating smile. It is clear sheis looking forward to dropping the explosive bombshell.) "He fell offa cliff and died while Rock climbing in New Zealand."Aunt Shirley: (Holds hand to her heart. Inhales deeply.) "And his namewas you say?"Tom: (Wondering why my Aunt would even care what his name was. She'sso drunk that she will hardly remember this conversation three daysfrom now.) "No Andy," I say, but by this time, no one is listening.Uncle Bob: (To my mother) "Hey Lady, what do you call five blondes atthe bottom of the pool?Mom: "What?"Uncle Bob: "Air bubbles."Mom: (Laughs and bats a hand at him. Then says) "What do you call aman with no arms and no legs in a swimming pool?"Uncle Bob: "What?"Mom: "Bob!"Hysterical laughs all

around, especially by Uncle "Bob."Aunt Shirley: (Sunddenly turning serious. Assumes tragically graveexpression, as though hamming for a movie.) " died you say? Andthis was in New York? Where are there cliffs in New York?"Tom: "New Zealand. Not New York."Mom: "I thought you said you didn't want to tell the story. Just bequiet and let me tell it properly."Tom: "Except you're not telling it properly are you? You never do,actually."Mom: "What difference does it make whether I tell it properly or not?The point is he fell off a cliff and died."Aunt Shirley: (Raises a skeptical eyebrow.) "In New Yrok, right? Areyou pulling my leg?"Tom: "New Zealand."Mom: "Shut up already."Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) "Where the Christ is New Zealand?"Mom: "It's an Island off the coast of Africa."Tom: "You're thinking of Madagascar. New Zealand is off of Australia."Mom: "See this is what

I mean about his AS. He is always nitpicking atdetails. Who the hell cares where it was the guy died? The point ishe died. Right? The point is he broke his leg."Tom: "Hip."Mom: "Whatever. Died of exposure."Aunt Shirley: "What's exposure?"Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) "Want me to show you? Let's go over therebehind the outhouse."Hysterical laughter during which both Mom and Aunt Shirley spill morebeer.Mom: "It took two hours before they found him."Tom: "Days."Mom: "Whatever."Tom: "It makes a significant difference mom. Two hours and he'd bepretty much in tact. But two days and he's a blackened frozen corpsethat's been partially picked apart by birds. That was how he wasfound. Most definiely not intact."Mom: "You are being gross and you are embarassing me. Now keep yourmouth shut."Tom: "Just to make things clear" (I say as a train of kids zigzagsbetween us shooting

water guns at each other.) "He was climbing rocks.He fell off. He died. Whatever. Right?"One of the kids stops.Kid: "Who died?"Tom: "My best friend."Kid: "Oh. Whatever." (Squirts me in the face with his water gun,laughs, and moves on.)Tom: "You shoot me with that thing again I and I will break it into athousand pieces."Mom: "Will you stop being so G*d d*amned RUDE to everyone! Learn somemanners."Aunt Shirley: (To my mother) "Lighten up Carol. He's got AS. hedoesn't know any better." (Walks off).Mom: (Turns to me.) "None of this had to happen if you would have justTOLD G*D D*MN story."Tom: "Mother. You're drunk. So I'm not going to entertain you rightnow. You want to talk about this. We'll do it when you're sober so youcan understand MY point of view."Mom: "Your point of view. Your point of view. Your point of view. Allwe ever hear is your point of view. No

one CARES about your point ofview. That's why you've got no friends. MY point of view alwaysinterests people. Your's never does."Tom: "Like flies to BS, it does. Get out of my way please. I'm goinghome."This is a true story.Tom.. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm(so much for embracing diversity ...)Amy

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

I will learn how to act appropriately amougst the Norms when they learn to become less:

Boring. Loud.

Simplistic. Dumb.

Mediocre. Non Sincere.

Gossipy. Cruel.

Dishonest. Disingenuous.

Although my attitude has alienated me from alot of people, including family, I have found when I do meet people of the same "wave length" those friendships blossom.

I dont really give a rats rectum for social status quo.

I think alot of people become mediocre when they think and act too much to please their peers.

Anyone agree?

Shaun.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

The response I posted in the Family Forum to this item when it was posted there:Amy and Everyone,I SINCERELY hope that you read this post.I agree with your assessment of this article.While it is very well written, it's poorly researched and alsogeneralized.This is the statement that gets me:"But most people who have been diagnosed with Asperger's simply haveto be taught, through years of counseling and therapy, how to conductthemselves appropriately in social and public situations."Wrong.There is a spectrum of people with AS just like AS is part of theautistic spectrum. "Years of counseling and therapy" on "how toconduct themselves appropriately" is hardly needed. What IS needed iscoping mechanisms to deal with how OTHER people conduct themselves.THAT'S what I got therapy for. YEARS

of therapy.Many AS people see neurotypicals as erratic and with short attentionspans, switching topics almost at random during conversations JUSTwhen they begin to get interesting as if to throw off whom it is theyare talking to.The AS person waits patiently for the speaker to get done beforeresponding to what has been said, but the speaker, not understandingthis most basic courtesy, continues talking. When the AS personfinally gets two words in edgewise, the speaker interupts and changesthe subject.Some NT people have a tendency to speak with a voice that is way tooloud, as if they know the words themselves carry too little weight tobe worth listening to, and must instead by broadcasted at a highvolume to maximize impact.And then, much of the time, the words themselves are spoken in thecontext of a social setting completely inappropriate for theconversation at hand. The time to talk about a friend's

grotesquelingering death can hardly be during a family picnic while half drunkmen tell dirty jokes, children chase themselves between you withsquirt guns firing, and bubbly third rate seventies love songs blarein the background full blast.In short, from the AS perspective, many NTs are extrememly rude,socially maladjusted, and hopelessly clueless about social ettiquette.But most of us are too polite to say so.Let me give you a specific instance to illustrate MY point of view.This actually happened:Mom (who is NOT AS): "Tell Aunt Shirley about your friend."Tom (who IS AS): (Shakes head gives look that indicates: Don't startwith me. I can see what's happening. I have been enjoying myself atthis family picnic, sitting in a folding chair, quietly observing myrelatives and learning much from listening in on their conversations.I have not really spoken to too many people except my cousin Steve.He is a

producer for a TV show on birds. So we talked about birdsquite a bit. But now, my mother, seeing that I am embarassing her bynot being a social butterfly, and trying to give me an "in" with thefamily to increase my social status, wants to tell the "Gee whiz,bang", story about how my conservationist friend fell off a cliff anddied of exposure while rock climing in New Zealand. I have the articlethat was published in the newpaper after it happened. And even thoughmy mother knows his parents, and has read the article, she stillscrews up the facts whenever she tells the story.)Aunt Shirley (who is NOT AS either): (Holds beer lopsided. Some fallsover the edge. She is unaware of this.) "What about his friend?"Tom: "She doesn't want to hear the story and I don't want to tell it.Let's change the subject."Mom: (Gives me an extrememly dirty look.) "Well don't talk then. Justsit there and look glum." (Drinks from her own

beer and proceedsanyway.) "His name was Andy. And he-"Aunt Shriley: "WAS? Don't you mean IS?"Mom: (Nods head, then shakes it. Has gloating smile. It is clear sheis looking forward to dropping the explosive bombshell.) "He fell offa cliff and died while Rock climbing in New Zealand."Aunt Shirley: (Holds hand to her heart. Inhales deeply.) "And his namewas you say?"Tom: (Wondering why my Aunt would even care what his name was. She'sso drunk that she will hardly remember this conversation three daysfrom now.) "No Andy," I say, but by this time, no one is listening.Uncle Bob: (To my mother) "Hey Lady, what do you call five blondes atthe bottom of the pool?Mom: "What?"Uncle Bob: "Air bubbles."Mom: (Laughs and bats a hand at him. Then says) "What do you call aman with no arms and no legs in a swimming pool?"Uncle Bob: "What?"Mom: "Bob!"Hysterical laughs all

around, especially by Uncle "Bob."Aunt Shirley: (Sunddenly turning serious. Assumes tragically graveexpression, as though hamming for a movie.) " died you say? Andthis was in New York? Where are there cliffs in New York?"Tom: "New Zealand. Not New York."Mom: "I thought you said you didn't want to tell the story. Just bequiet and let me tell it properly."Tom: "Except you're not telling it properly are you? You never do,actually."Mom: "What difference does it make whether I tell it properly or not?The point is he fell off a cliff and died."Aunt Shirley: (Raises a skeptical eyebrow.) "In New Yrok, right? Areyou pulling my leg?"Tom: "New Zealand."Mom: "Shut up already."Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) "Where the Christ is New Zealand?"Mom: "It's an Island off the coast of Africa."Tom: "You're thinking of Madagascar. New Zealand is off of Australia."Mom: "See this is what

I mean about his AS. He is always nitpicking atdetails. Who the hell cares where it was the guy died? The point ishe died. Right? The point is he broke his leg."Tom: "Hip."Mom: "Whatever. Died of exposure."Aunt Shirley: "What's exposure?"Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) "Want me to show you? Let's go over therebehind the outhouse."Hysterical laughter during which both Mom and Aunt Shirley spill morebeer.Mom: "It took two hours before they found him."Tom: "Days."Mom: "Whatever."Tom: "It makes a significant difference mom. Two hours and he'd bepretty much in tact. But two days and he's a blackened frozen corpsethat's been partially picked apart by birds. That was how he wasfound. Most definiely not intact."Mom: "You are being gross and you are embarassing me. Now keep yourmouth shut."Tom: "Just to make things clear" (I say as a train of kids zigzagsbetween us shooting

water guns at each other.) "He was climbing rocks.He fell off. He died. Whatever. Right?"One of the kids stops.Kid: "Who died?"Tom: "My best friend."Kid: "Oh. Whatever." (Squirts me in the face with his water gun,laughs, and moves on.)Tom: "You shoot me with that thing again I and I will break it into athousand pieces."Mom: "Will you stop being so G*d d*amned RUDE to everyone! Learn somemanners."Aunt Shirley: (To my mother) "Lighten up Carol. He's got AS. hedoesn't know any better." (Walks off).Mom: (Turns to me.) "None of this had to happen if you would have justTOLD G*D D*MN story."Tom: "Mother. You're drunk. So I'm not going to entertain you rightnow. You want to talk about this. We'll do it when you're sober so youcan understand MY point of view."Mom: "Your point of view. Your point of view. Your point of view. Allwe ever hear is your point of view. No

one CARES about your point ofview. That's why you've got no friends. MY point of view alwaysinterests people. Your's never does."Tom: "Like flies to BS, it does. Get out of my way please. I'm goinghome."This is a true story.Tom.. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm(so much for embracing diversity ...)Amy

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

I will learn how to act appropriately amougst the Norms when they learn to become less:

Boring. Loud.

Simplistic. Dumb.

Mediocre. Non Sincere.

Gossipy. Cruel.

Dishonest. Disingenuous.

Although my attitude has alienated me from alot of people, including family, I have found when I do meet people of the same "wave length" those friendships blossom.

I dont really give a rats rectum for social status quo.

I think alot of people become mediocre when they think and act too much to please their peers.

Anyone agree?

Shaun.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

The response I posted in the Family Forum to this item when it was posted there:Amy and Everyone,I SINCERELY hope that you read this post.I agree with your assessment of this article.While it is very well written, it's poorly researched and alsogeneralized.This is the statement that gets me:"But most people who have been diagnosed with Asperger's simply haveto be taught, through years of counseling and therapy, how to conductthemselves appropriately in social and public situations."Wrong.There is a spectrum of people with AS just like AS is part of theautistic spectrum. "Years of counseling and therapy" on "how toconduct themselves appropriately" is hardly needed. What IS needed iscoping mechanisms to deal with how OTHER people conduct themselves.THAT'S what I got therapy for. YEARS

of therapy.Many AS people see neurotypicals as erratic and with short attentionspans, switching topics almost at random during conversations JUSTwhen they begin to get interesting as if to throw off whom it is theyare talking to.The AS person waits patiently for the speaker to get done beforeresponding to what has been said, but the speaker, not understandingthis most basic courtesy, continues talking. When the AS personfinally gets two words in edgewise, the speaker interupts and changesthe subject.Some NT people have a tendency to speak with a voice that is way tooloud, as if they know the words themselves carry too little weight tobe worth listening to, and must instead by broadcasted at a highvolume to maximize impact.And then, much of the time, the words themselves are spoken in thecontext of a social setting completely inappropriate for theconversation at hand. The time to talk about a friend's

grotesquelingering death can hardly be during a family picnic while half drunkmen tell dirty jokes, children chase themselves between you withsquirt guns firing, and bubbly third rate seventies love songs blarein the background full blast.In short, from the AS perspective, many NTs are extrememly rude,socially maladjusted, and hopelessly clueless about social ettiquette.But most of us are too polite to say so.Let me give you a specific instance to illustrate MY point of view.This actually happened:Mom (who is NOT AS): "Tell Aunt Shirley about your friend."Tom (who IS AS): (Shakes head gives look that indicates: Don't startwith me. I can see what's happening. I have been enjoying myself atthis family picnic, sitting in a folding chair, quietly observing myrelatives and learning much from listening in on their conversations.I have not really spoken to too many people except my cousin Steve.He is a

producer for a TV show on birds. So we talked about birdsquite a bit. But now, my mother, seeing that I am embarassing her bynot being a social butterfly, and trying to give me an "in" with thefamily to increase my social status, wants to tell the "Gee whiz,bang", story about how my conservationist friend fell off a cliff anddied of exposure while rock climing in New Zealand. I have the articlethat was published in the newpaper after it happened. And even thoughmy mother knows his parents, and has read the article, she stillscrews up the facts whenever she tells the story.)Aunt Shirley (who is NOT AS either): (Holds beer lopsided. Some fallsover the edge. She is unaware of this.) "What about his friend?"Tom: "She doesn't want to hear the story and I don't want to tell it.Let's change the subject."Mom: (Gives me an extrememly dirty look.) "Well don't talk then. Justsit there and look glum." (Drinks from her own

beer and proceedsanyway.) "His name was Andy. And he-"Aunt Shriley: "WAS? Don't you mean IS?"Mom: (Nods head, then shakes it. Has gloating smile. It is clear sheis looking forward to dropping the explosive bombshell.) "He fell offa cliff and died while Rock climbing in New Zealand."Aunt Shirley: (Holds hand to her heart. Inhales deeply.) "And his namewas you say?"Tom: (Wondering why my Aunt would even care what his name was. She'sso drunk that she will hardly remember this conversation three daysfrom now.) "No Andy," I say, but by this time, no one is listening.Uncle Bob: (To my mother) "Hey Lady, what do you call five blondes atthe bottom of the pool?Mom: "What?"Uncle Bob: "Air bubbles."Mom: (Laughs and bats a hand at him. Then says) "What do you call aman with no arms and no legs in a swimming pool?"Uncle Bob: "What?"Mom: "Bob!"Hysterical laughs all

around, especially by Uncle "Bob."Aunt Shirley: (Sunddenly turning serious. Assumes tragically graveexpression, as though hamming for a movie.) " died you say? Andthis was in New York? Where are there cliffs in New York?"Tom: "New Zealand. Not New York."Mom: "I thought you said you didn't want to tell the story. Just bequiet and let me tell it properly."Tom: "Except you're not telling it properly are you? You never do,actually."Mom: "What difference does it make whether I tell it properly or not?The point is he fell off a cliff and died."Aunt Shirley: (Raises a skeptical eyebrow.) "In New Yrok, right? Areyou pulling my leg?"Tom: "New Zealand."Mom: "Shut up already."Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) "Where the Christ is New Zealand?"Mom: "It's an Island off the coast of Africa."Tom: "You're thinking of Madagascar. New Zealand is off of Australia."Mom: "See this is what

I mean about his AS. He is always nitpicking atdetails. Who the hell cares where it was the guy died? The point ishe died. Right? The point is he broke his leg."Tom: "Hip."Mom: "Whatever. Died of exposure."Aunt Shirley: "What's exposure?"Uncle Bob: (Leans in.) "Want me to show you? Let's go over therebehind the outhouse."Hysterical laughter during which both Mom and Aunt Shirley spill morebeer.Mom: "It took two hours before they found him."Tom: "Days."Mom: "Whatever."Tom: "It makes a significant difference mom. Two hours and he'd bepretty much in tact. But two days and he's a blackened frozen corpsethat's been partially picked apart by birds. That was how he wasfound. Most definiely not intact."Mom: "You are being gross and you are embarassing me. Now keep yourmouth shut."Tom: "Just to make things clear" (I say as a train of kids zigzagsbetween us shooting

water guns at each other.) "He was climbing rocks.He fell off. He died. Whatever. Right?"One of the kids stops.Kid: "Who died?"Tom: "My best friend."Kid: "Oh. Whatever." (Squirts me in the face with his water gun,laughs, and moves on.)Tom: "You shoot me with that thing again I and I will break it into athousand pieces."Mom: "Will you stop being so G*d d*amned RUDE to everyone! Learn somemanners."Aunt Shirley: (To my mother) "Lighten up Carol. He's got AS. hedoesn't know any better." (Walks off).Mom: (Turns to me.) "None of this had to happen if you would have justTOLD G*D D*MN story."Tom: "Mother. You're drunk. So I'm not going to entertain you rightnow. You want to talk about this. We'll do it when you're sober so youcan understand MY point of view."Mom: "Your point of view. Your point of view. Your point of view. Allwe ever hear is your point of view. No

one CARES about your point ofview. That's why you've got no friends. MY point of view alwaysinterests people. Your's never does."Tom: "Like flies to BS, it does. Get out of my way please. I'm goinghome."This is a true story.Tom.. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm(so much for embracing diversity ...)Amy

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

Hello Tom, I couldn't agree with you more on your post on two notes

1) that people with aspergers syndrome hate to be changed and 2)that

we don't fit into major social situations especially when we're

surrounded by a bunch of NTs . I enjoyed reading your post i'd say

it perfectly reflects just how frustrating it is trying to get our

point across to bunch of nonsense talking NTs. And even moreso, I've

had some times where i would be at say maybe a Thanksgiving dinner

party or a Christmas party with my extended family and i try to make

simple conversation but sometimes other people might interject and

it makes the conversation harder to talk about.

Or sometimes we might carry the conversation and then suddenly they

drastically change the subject to something else as if they've had

enough of listening to my ramblings. Which makes me wonder " Do we

bore the NT society with our conversations? Are we not fluid enough

in our conversations? Are we not enough of a social butterfly to

know how to make our way through society that we can stay in step

with everyone? " Those are just a few of the questions i tend to ask

as i ponder all the times that i've been through with my family and

in those social situations where i feel " Left out. "

Alot of the time we as people with aspergers probably feel like

we're not being given enough of an opportunity to speak our minds on

the many matters that may matter to us most because the NTs will

just butt in and say something off color that will totally throw us

off from our course of action. We're like those many great authors

have stated in the past " little professors " and we have many talents

but we just need to find a way to put our talents to good use. We're

not very social like most people are, we don't mind some chit chat

every once in awhile just not too much because it can lead to

feeling socially awkward in social situations.

And as stated before " You cannot change somebody with aspergers

syndrome, you cannot turn them into a carbon copy of somebody else

just so that they can do everything you want them to do, they are a

very bright thread in our lives and without them our lives would be

very dull and sterile. " -By Tony Attwood Copyright 2005. I've always

found Tony Attwood to be a great author of his books even though i

have not delved into them just yet i have read his website on

aspergers syndrome and while he does mention treatment (which i am

against the idea of because that predicts change) I still like his

sense of ideals revolving around the facts. There are alot of good

authors out there who know alot about AS: Tony Attwood, Lorna Wing,

Simon Baron-Cohen, Liane Holliday Willey, Stanford for

aspergers syndrome and long term relationships.

My mom doesn't want to accept the fact that being aspergated is the

only way to be able to communicate with somebody who has aspergers

syndrome. She made a dumb statement one time saying that " If NTs

need to be aspergated to understand people with aspergers then

doesn't that mean there should be a way to Neurotypify people with

AS so that they'll understand NTs? " Groan the idiocy never seems to

end does it? When will they ever learn that we are the ones who

carry the gift that covers the communication rift? To be honest i

don't think they will ever learn. I'm sure my sister was

thinking along the same line as my mom was on that note and it's a

sad fact too because alot of the time my family just wishes i was

normal like everybody else,but i'm not and i feel perfectly fine

just the way i am. Lord only knows i wouldn't want to change at all,

and besides i have a hard enough time reading those a** backwards

anime comics,lmao. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you

do.

Signed,

Greg

> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

>

> http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

>

> (so much for embracing diversity ...)

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Hello Tom, I couldn't agree with you more on your post on two notes

1) that people with aspergers syndrome hate to be changed and 2)that

we don't fit into major social situations especially when we're

surrounded by a bunch of NTs . I enjoyed reading your post i'd say

it perfectly reflects just how frustrating it is trying to get our

point across to bunch of nonsense talking NTs. And even moreso, I've

had some times where i would be at say maybe a Thanksgiving dinner

party or a Christmas party with my extended family and i try to make

simple conversation but sometimes other people might interject and

it makes the conversation harder to talk about.

Or sometimes we might carry the conversation and then suddenly they

drastically change the subject to something else as if they've had

enough of listening to my ramblings. Which makes me wonder " Do we

bore the NT society with our conversations? Are we not fluid enough

in our conversations? Are we not enough of a social butterfly to

know how to make our way through society that we can stay in step

with everyone? " Those are just a few of the questions i tend to ask

as i ponder all the times that i've been through with my family and

in those social situations where i feel " Left out. "

Alot of the time we as people with aspergers probably feel like

we're not being given enough of an opportunity to speak our minds on

the many matters that may matter to us most because the NTs will

just butt in and say something off color that will totally throw us

off from our course of action. We're like those many great authors

have stated in the past " little professors " and we have many talents

but we just need to find a way to put our talents to good use. We're

not very social like most people are, we don't mind some chit chat

every once in awhile just not too much because it can lead to

feeling socially awkward in social situations.

And as stated before " You cannot change somebody with aspergers

syndrome, you cannot turn them into a carbon copy of somebody else

just so that they can do everything you want them to do, they are a

very bright thread in our lives and without them our lives would be

very dull and sterile. " -By Tony Attwood Copyright 2005. I've always

found Tony Attwood to be a great author of his books even though i

have not delved into them just yet i have read his website on

aspergers syndrome and while he does mention treatment (which i am

against the idea of because that predicts change) I still like his

sense of ideals revolving around the facts. There are alot of good

authors out there who know alot about AS: Tony Attwood, Lorna Wing,

Simon Baron-Cohen, Liane Holliday Willey, Stanford for

aspergers syndrome and long term relationships.

My mom doesn't want to accept the fact that being aspergated is the

only way to be able to communicate with somebody who has aspergers

syndrome. She made a dumb statement one time saying that " If NTs

need to be aspergated to understand people with aspergers then

doesn't that mean there should be a way to Neurotypify people with

AS so that they'll understand NTs? " Groan the idiocy never seems to

end does it? When will they ever learn that we are the ones who

carry the gift that covers the communication rift? To be honest i

don't think they will ever learn. I'm sure my sister was

thinking along the same line as my mom was on that note and it's a

sad fact too because alot of the time my family just wishes i was

normal like everybody else,but i'm not and i feel perfectly fine

just the way i am. Lord only knows i wouldn't want to change at all,

and besides i have a hard enough time reading those a** backwards

anime comics,lmao. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you

do.

Signed,

Greg

> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

>

> http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

>

> (so much for embracing diversity ...)

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Hello Tom, I couldn't agree with you more on your post on two notes

1) that people with aspergers syndrome hate to be changed and 2)that

we don't fit into major social situations especially when we're

surrounded by a bunch of NTs . I enjoyed reading your post i'd say

it perfectly reflects just how frustrating it is trying to get our

point across to bunch of nonsense talking NTs. And even moreso, I've

had some times where i would be at say maybe a Thanksgiving dinner

party or a Christmas party with my extended family and i try to make

simple conversation but sometimes other people might interject and

it makes the conversation harder to talk about.

Or sometimes we might carry the conversation and then suddenly they

drastically change the subject to something else as if they've had

enough of listening to my ramblings. Which makes me wonder " Do we

bore the NT society with our conversations? Are we not fluid enough

in our conversations? Are we not enough of a social butterfly to

know how to make our way through society that we can stay in step

with everyone? " Those are just a few of the questions i tend to ask

as i ponder all the times that i've been through with my family and

in those social situations where i feel " Left out. "

Alot of the time we as people with aspergers probably feel like

we're not being given enough of an opportunity to speak our minds on

the many matters that may matter to us most because the NTs will

just butt in and say something off color that will totally throw us

off from our course of action. We're like those many great authors

have stated in the past " little professors " and we have many talents

but we just need to find a way to put our talents to good use. We're

not very social like most people are, we don't mind some chit chat

every once in awhile just not too much because it can lead to

feeling socially awkward in social situations.

And as stated before " You cannot change somebody with aspergers

syndrome, you cannot turn them into a carbon copy of somebody else

just so that they can do everything you want them to do, they are a

very bright thread in our lives and without them our lives would be

very dull and sterile. " -By Tony Attwood Copyright 2005. I've always

found Tony Attwood to be a great author of his books even though i

have not delved into them just yet i have read his website on

aspergers syndrome and while he does mention treatment (which i am

against the idea of because that predicts change) I still like his

sense of ideals revolving around the facts. There are alot of good

authors out there who know alot about AS: Tony Attwood, Lorna Wing,

Simon Baron-Cohen, Liane Holliday Willey, Stanford for

aspergers syndrome and long term relationships.

My mom doesn't want to accept the fact that being aspergated is the

only way to be able to communicate with somebody who has aspergers

syndrome. She made a dumb statement one time saying that " If NTs

need to be aspergated to understand people with aspergers then

doesn't that mean there should be a way to Neurotypify people with

AS so that they'll understand NTs? " Groan the idiocy never seems to

end does it? When will they ever learn that we are the ones who

carry the gift that covers the communication rift? To be honest i

don't think they will ever learn. I'm sure my sister was

thinking along the same line as my mom was on that note and it's a

sad fact too because alot of the time my family just wishes i was

normal like everybody else,but i'm not and i feel perfectly fine

just the way i am. Lord only knows i wouldn't want to change at all,

and besides i have a hard enough time reading those a** backwards

anime comics,lmao. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you

do.

Signed,

Greg

> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

>

> http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

>

> (so much for embracing diversity ...)

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Greg and Tom,

Same.

I hate being interupted in the middle of conversation.

I hate it when these people will not only think what I say as boring but, interupt in the middle of the thought to change the subject.

Very rude indeed. I'm so sick of that that I will raise my voice, talk over them to get what I want to say out and complete my train of thought, then leave the scene.

Being mediocre is not a virtue, being able to integrate with the norm at the expense of yourself isnt self agrandisement, it is just dumbing yourself down.

I suggest there is nothing wrong with us, au contrare, it is them.

It just happens to be we are the minority.

Thats all.

Shaun. Gumina <callisto5784@...> wrote:

Hello Tom, I couldn't agree with you more on your post on two notes 1) that people with aspergers syndrome hate to be changed and 2)that we don't fit into major social situations especially when we're surrounded by a bunch of NTs . I enjoyed reading your post i'd say it perfectly reflects just how frustrating it is trying to get our point across to bunch of nonsense talking NTs. And even moreso, I've had some times where i would be at say maybe a Thanksgiving dinner party or a Christmas party with my extended family and i try to make simple conversation but sometimes other people might interject and it makes the conversation harder to talk about. Or sometimes we might carry the conversation and then suddenly they drastically change the subject to something else as if they've had enough of listening to my ramblings. Which makes

me wonder "Do we bore the NT society with our conversations? Are we not fluid enough in our conversations? Are we not enough of a social butterfly to know how to make our way through society that we can stay in step with everyone?" Those are just a few of the questions i tend to ask as i ponder all the times that i've been through with my family and in those social situations where i feel "Left out." Alot of the time we as people with aspergers probably feel like we're not being given enough of an opportunity to speak our minds on the many matters that may matter to us most because the NTs will just butt in and say something off color that will totally throw us off from our course of action. We're like those many great authors have stated in the past "little professors" and we have many talents but we just need to find a way to put our talents to good use. We're not very social like most people are, we don't mind some chit

chat every once in awhile just not too much because it can lead to feeling socially awkward in social situations. And as stated before "You cannot change somebody with aspergers syndrome, you cannot turn them into a carbon copy of somebody else just so that they can do everything you want them to do, they are a very bright thread in our lives and without them our lives would be very dull and sterile."-By Tony Attwood Copyright 2005. I've always found Tony Attwood to be a great author of his books even though i have not delved into them just yet i have read his website on aspergers syndrome and while he does mention treatment (which i am against the idea of because that predicts change) I still like his sense of ideals revolving around the facts. There are alot of good authors out there who know alot about AS: Tony Attwood, Lorna Wing, Simon Baron-Cohen, Liane Holliday Willey, Stanford for aspergers syndrome and

long term relationships. My mom doesn't want to accept the fact that being aspergated is the only way to be able to communicate with somebody who has aspergers syndrome. She made a dumb statement one time saying that "If NTs need to be aspergated to understand people with aspergers then doesn't that mean there should be a way to Neurotypify people with AS so that they'll understand NTs?" Groan the idiocy never seems to end does it? When will they ever learn that we are the ones who carry the gift that covers the communication rift? To be honest i don't think they will ever learn. I'm sure my sister was thinking along the same line as my mom was on that note and it's a sad fact too because alot of the time my family just wishes i was normal like everybody else,but i'm not and i feel perfectly fine just the way i am. Lord only knows i wouldn't want to change at all, and besides i have a hard enough time reading those

a** backwards anime comics,lmao. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you do. Signed, Greg> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.> > http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm> > (so much for embracing diversity ...)> > Amy

[Guest guest]

Greg and Tom,

Same.

I hate being interupted in the middle of conversation.

I hate it when these people will not only think what I say as boring but, interupt in the middle of the thought to change the subject.

Very rude indeed. I'm so sick of that that I will raise my voice, talk over them to get what I want to say out and complete my train of thought, then leave the scene.

Being mediocre is not a virtue, being able to integrate with the norm at the expense of yourself isnt self agrandisement, it is just dumbing yourself down.

I suggest there is nothing wrong with us, au contrare, it is them.

It just happens to be we are the minority.

Thats all.

Shaun. Gumina <callisto5784@...> wrote:

Hello Tom, I couldn't agree with you more on your post on two notes 1) that people with aspergers syndrome hate to be changed and 2)that we don't fit into major social situations especially when we're surrounded by a bunch of NTs . I enjoyed reading your post i'd say it perfectly reflects just how frustrating it is trying to get our point across to bunch of nonsense talking NTs. And even moreso, I've had some times where i would be at say maybe a Thanksgiving dinner party or a Christmas party with my extended family and i try to make simple conversation but sometimes other people might interject and it makes the conversation harder to talk about. Or sometimes we might carry the conversation and then suddenly they drastically change the subject to something else as if they've had enough of listening to my ramblings. Which makes

me wonder "Do we bore the NT society with our conversations? Are we not fluid enough in our conversations? Are we not enough of a social butterfly to know how to make our way through society that we can stay in step with everyone?" Those are just a few of the questions i tend to ask as i ponder all the times that i've been through with my family and in those social situations where i feel "Left out." Alot of the time we as people with aspergers probably feel like we're not being given enough of an opportunity to speak our minds on the many matters that may matter to us most because the NTs will just butt in and say something off color that will totally throw us off from our course of action. We're like those many great authors have stated in the past "little professors" and we have many talents but we just need to find a way to put our talents to good use. We're not very social like most people are, we don't mind some chit

chat every once in awhile just not too much because it can lead to feeling socially awkward in social situations. And as stated before "You cannot change somebody with aspergers syndrome, you cannot turn them into a carbon copy of somebody else just so that they can do everything you want them to do, they are a very bright thread in our lives and without them our lives would be very dull and sterile."-By Tony Attwood Copyright 2005. I've always found Tony Attwood to be a great author of his books even though i have not delved into them just yet i have read his website on aspergers syndrome and while he does mention treatment (which i am against the idea of because that predicts change) I still like his sense of ideals revolving around the facts. There are alot of good authors out there who know alot about AS: Tony Attwood, Lorna Wing, Simon Baron-Cohen, Liane Holliday Willey, Stanford for aspergers syndrome and

long term relationships. My mom doesn't want to accept the fact that being aspergated is the only way to be able to communicate with somebody who has aspergers syndrome. She made a dumb statement one time saying that "If NTs need to be aspergated to understand people with aspergers then doesn't that mean there should be a way to Neurotypify people with AS so that they'll understand NTs?" Groan the idiocy never seems to end does it? When will they ever learn that we are the ones who carry the gift that covers the communication rift? To be honest i don't think they will ever learn. I'm sure my sister was thinking along the same line as my mom was on that note and it's a sad fact too because alot of the time my family just wishes i was normal like everybody else,but i'm not and i feel perfectly fine just the way i am. Lord only knows i wouldn't want to change at all, and besides i have a hard enough time reading those

a** backwards anime comics,lmao. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you do. Signed, Greg> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.> > http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm> > (so much for embracing diversity ...)> > Amy

[Guest guest]

Hello Shaun, I agree with you i hate being interrupted too, But if

there is nothing wrong with us and the NTs are the problem then

wouldn't that make not really the minority but moreso " the

majority? " I ask this because we have the ability to change the NTs

so that they think just like us and maybe even act just like us. If

we could just get past their arrogance and find somebody who is

willing to change for the better then we would have someone who we

would be able to communicate with effectively. I mean (i know this

sounds really out of the way but...) We're so gifted as an autistic

society that we have the power God to change how the NT society

thinks and acts it's simply a matter of finding people who are

willing to go through the practical methods necessary in order to

change for the better.

I say all this because i'm hopeful, and because i know that these

people did not just come out of some primordial soup simply so that

they could talk senseless jargon to us and talk down to us simply so

that we feel like the minority and they feel like the majority. But

it's more the matter to the fact that if we got them to understand

us (and laugh if you want) we'd all be alot better off than we are

now. There may not be a cure for autism but if there's a way to

communicate with an NT or for an NT to communicate with us i'd take

the chance and jump at the opportunity. Then it's only a matter of

finding someone who's willing to do that kind of stuff. As we've

said many times before back when we were on aspergia " Lets aspergate

the entire world,lol. " So anyways i'll let you go, i hope to hear

from you soon,good luck in all you do.

Signed,

Greg

" The realization of the matter is that we have the power to change

those who can't communicate with us,if those people who stand in the

shadows can so firmly grasp what it is like being us and come to

terms with the idea of crossing over the other side simply to be

able to talk to us normally this world would be one step closer to

normal. " -By Greg Gumina Copyright 2005

> > .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

> >

> > http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

> >

> > (so much for embracing diversity ...)

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Shaun, I agree with you i hate being interrupted too, But if

there is nothing wrong with us and the NTs are the problem then

wouldn't that make not really the minority but moreso " the

majority? " I ask this because we have the ability to change the NTs

so that they think just like us and maybe even act just like us. If

we could just get past their arrogance and find somebody who is

willing to change for the better then we would have someone who we

would be able to communicate with effectively. I mean (i know this

sounds really out of the way but...) We're so gifted as an autistic

society that we have the power God to change how the NT society

thinks and acts it's simply a matter of finding people who are

willing to go through the practical methods necessary in order to

change for the better.

I say all this because i'm hopeful, and because i know that these

people did not just come out of some primordial soup simply so that

they could talk senseless jargon to us and talk down to us simply so

that we feel like the minority and they feel like the majority. But

it's more the matter to the fact that if we got them to understand

us (and laugh if you want) we'd all be alot better off than we are

now. There may not be a cure for autism but if there's a way to

communicate with an NT or for an NT to communicate with us i'd take

the chance and jump at the opportunity. Then it's only a matter of

finding someone who's willing to do that kind of stuff. As we've

said many times before back when we were on aspergia " Lets aspergate

the entire world,lol. " So anyways i'll let you go, i hope to hear

from you soon,good luck in all you do.

Signed,

Greg

" The realization of the matter is that we have the power to change

those who can't communicate with us,if those people who stand in the

shadows can so firmly grasp what it is like being us and come to

terms with the idea of crossing over the other side simply to be

able to talk to us normally this world would be one step closer to

normal. " -By Greg Gumina Copyright 2005

> > .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

> >

> > http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

> >

> > (so much for embracing diversity ...)

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Shaun, I agree with you i hate being interrupted too, But if

there is nothing wrong with us and the NTs are the problem then

wouldn't that make not really the minority but moreso " the

majority? " I ask this because we have the ability to change the NTs

so that they think just like us and maybe even act just like us. If

we could just get past their arrogance and find somebody who is

willing to change for the better then we would have someone who we

would be able to communicate with effectively. I mean (i know this

sounds really out of the way but...) We're so gifted as an autistic

society that we have the power God to change how the NT society

thinks and acts it's simply a matter of finding people who are

willing to go through the practical methods necessary in order to

change for the better.

I say all this because i'm hopeful, and because i know that these

people did not just come out of some primordial soup simply so that

they could talk senseless jargon to us and talk down to us simply so

that we feel like the minority and they feel like the majority. But

it's more the matter to the fact that if we got them to understand

us (and laugh if you want) we'd all be alot better off than we are

now. There may not be a cure for autism but if there's a way to

communicate with an NT or for an NT to communicate with us i'd take

the chance and jump at the opportunity. Then it's only a matter of

finding someone who's willing to do that kind of stuff. As we've

said many times before back when we were on aspergia " Lets aspergate

the entire world,lol. " So anyways i'll let you go, i hope to hear

from you soon,good luck in all you do.

Signed,

Greg

" The realization of the matter is that we have the power to change

those who can't communicate with us,if those people who stand in the

shadows can so firmly grasp what it is like being us and come to

terms with the idea of crossing over the other side simply to be

able to talk to us normally this world would be one step closer to

normal. " -By Greg Gumina Copyright 2005

> > .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

> >

> > http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

> >

> > (so much for embracing diversity ...)

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This will sound arrogant Greg, but I believe the reason they interupt

us is because they are incapable of carrying on the conversation

because their brains only store so much knowledge.

So then they cut US off and tell US that we're the socially inept ones

to make themselves feel better.

Now maybe people with As and people without AS are built differently,

but I do notice that we tend to afford them respectr for their

differences whereas they more often than not tend to insist that we

must change.

Tom

Or sometimes we might carry the conversation and then suddenly they

drastically change the subject to something else as if they've had

enough of listening to my ramblings. Which makes me wonder " Do we

bore the NT society with our conversations? Are we not fluid enough

in our conversations? Are we not enough of a social butterfly to

know how to make our way through society that we can stay in step

with everyone? " Those are just a few of the questions i tend to ask

as i ponder all the times that i've been through with my family and

in those social situations where i feel " Left out. "

[Guest guest]

Shaun,

I suppose my post was written out of frustration, but it WAS true to

life. And so, to answer your question, YES, I agree.

I think it's rather pityful actually, to demean oneself to get in

socially with one's peers, and that appears to me to be what some

people do.

Tom

I think alot of people become mediocre when they think and act too

much to please their peers.

Anyone agree?

Shaun.

[Guest guest]

Shaun,

I suppose my post was written out of frustration, but it WAS true to

life. And so, to answer your question, YES, I agree.

I think it's rather pityful actually, to demean oneself to get in

socially with one's peers, and that appears to me to be what some

people do.

Tom

I think alot of people become mediocre when they think and act too

much to please their peers.

Anyone agree?

Shaun.

[Guest guest]

Looking at below post I realise (as I had before) that many things

NT's accuse people with AS of doing they actually do their selves.

For example they are rude - they accuse AS people of being rude, they

talk to loud, they accuse AS people of not being able to regulate

their volume of speaking etc.

I sometimes have to point out to people that they are talking too

loud - I am not deaf and if stood in same room with little to no

background noise have no problems hearing them. Telling someone they

are speaking too loud does not always go down well though :-( think

it probably depends on situation and person.

As for innapropriate conversations - in innapropriate settings - yeah

I have witnessed that many times from those not on spectrum. I quite

often have to point out to people not on spectrum that my son is

present and I would rather not discuss such things, but that I will

discuss them later. One previous sitter delighted in trying to find

out about personal details which she could then try and discuss with

me and critisize me in front of my son - that sitter did not last

long :-)

Also my mother and some other people I know seem to delight in what I

consider 'horror stories' - what I mean is true to life stories of

tradgedy. My mum actually started telling me of one on bus other day

and then it put her in a mood and yet it was her that had brought it

up and talked about it - confusing. It was story of someone in a

transport crash and she knew of some of the gruesome details, but

when I asked how crash had happened she was at a loss and me asking

this question seemed to annoy her.

As for picnics - Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh - last one I went to with son was

disaster - we mostly stayed away from other people, but I did try to

make some effort, but as ever conversations mind numingly boring - in

end son was getting to melt-down point and other people there just

did not understand why - I did - as I felt same.

> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

>

> http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

>

> (so much for embracing diversity ...)

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Looking at below post I realise (as I had before) that many things

NT's accuse people with AS of doing they actually do their selves.

For example they are rude - they accuse AS people of being rude, they

talk to loud, they accuse AS people of not being able to regulate

their volume of speaking etc.

I sometimes have to point out to people that they are talking too

loud - I am not deaf and if stood in same room with little to no

background noise have no problems hearing them. Telling someone they

are speaking too loud does not always go down well though :-( think

it probably depends on situation and person.

As for innapropriate conversations - in innapropriate settings - yeah

I have witnessed that many times from those not on spectrum. I quite

often have to point out to people not on spectrum that my son is

present and I would rather not discuss such things, but that I will

discuss them later. One previous sitter delighted in trying to find

out about personal details which she could then try and discuss with

me and critisize me in front of my son - that sitter did not last

long :-)

Also my mother and some other people I know seem to delight in what I

consider 'horror stories' - what I mean is true to life stories of

tradgedy. My mum actually started telling me of one on bus other day

and then it put her in a mood and yet it was her that had brought it

up and talked about it - confusing. It was story of someone in a

transport crash and she knew of some of the gruesome details, but

when I asked how crash had happened she was at a loss and me asking

this question seemed to annoy her.

As for picnics - Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh - last one I went to with son was

disaster - we mostly stayed away from other people, but I did try to

make some effort, but as ever conversations mind numingly boring - in

end son was getting to melt-down point and other people there just

did not understand why - I did - as I felt same.

> .. from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

>

> http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

>

> (so much for embracing diversity ...)

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

,

I took a folklore class in college and one of the things we studied

was the perpetuation of urban legends. Such as: Mcs started

using Kangeroo meat for their hamburgers, etc.

The value of the " tragic horror story " seems to have added weight in

comparrison with other topics in social circles.

I think social status might be determined somewhat by the speaker's

ability to captivate their audience or toy with their emotions.

This is why lots of meetings open up with a joke to " break the ice. "

Or why tragedies are shared more often than triumphs at social

gatherings.

Tom

Also my mother and some other people I know seem to delight in what I

consider 'horror stories' - what I mean is true to life stories of

tradgedy. My mum actually started telling me of one on bus other day

and then it put her in a mood and yet it was her that had brought it

up and talked about it - confusing. It was story of someone in a

transport crash and she knew of some of the gruesome details, but

when I asked how crash had happened she was at a loss and me asking

this question seemed to annoy her.

[Guest guest]

It appears to me that some NT's will never change - they have their

opinion and despite evidence to the contrary will not change their

views - I have come across this (sigh) and yet they have the audacity

to say Aspies are rigid and inflexible.

Just recently an autism expert told me that people with AS take in

more than those without - they actually do have more to process

because they take so much in. So even though people with AS may have

trouble reading non verbal clues we are still taking in a lot more

than NT's :-) This guy also explained that those with AS have a

strong and deep sense of injustice and do not let go of things such

as this easily - they also dislike it if they feel they are not being

listened to :-) go figure - did you hear me by the way ;-) were you

listening ;-)

> Hello Shaun, I agree with you i hate being interrupted too, But if

> there is nothing wrong with us and the NTs are the problem then

> wouldn't that make not really the minority but moreso " the

> majority? " I ask this because we have the ability to change the NTs

> so that they think just like us and maybe even act just like us. If

> we could just get past their arrogance and find somebody who is

> willing to change for the better then we would have someone who we

> would be able to communicate with effectively. I mean (i know this

> sounds really out of the way but...) We're so gifted as an autistic

> society that we have the power God to change how the NT society

> thinks and acts it's simply a matter of finding people who are

> willing to go through the practical methods necessary in order to

> change for the better.

>

> I say all this because i'm hopeful, and because i know that these

> people did not just come out of some primordial soup simply so that

> they could talk senseless jargon to us and talk down to us simply

so

> that we feel like the minority and they feel like the majority. But

> it's more the matter to the fact that if we got them to understand

> us (and laugh if you want) we'd all be alot better off than we are

> now. There may not be a cure for autism but if there's a way to

> communicate with an NT or for an NT to communicate with us i'd take

> the chance and jump at the opportunity. Then it's only a matter of

> finding someone who's willing to do that kind of stuff. As we've

> said many times before back when we were on aspergia " Lets

aspergate

> the entire world,lol. " So anyways i'll let you go, i hope to hear

> from you soon,good luck in all you do.

>

>

> Signed,

> Greg

> " The realization of the matter is that we have the power to change

> those who can't communicate with us,if those people who stand in

the

> shadows can so firmly grasp what it is like being us and come to

> terms with the idea of crossing over the other side simply to be

> able to talk to us normally this world would be one step closer to

> normal. " -By Greg Gumina Copyright 2005

>

[Guest guest]

Huh? What?

Don't you HATE it when someone says things like that after you've

just said something important? It's happened to me many times.

In reference to everything else in the paragraph below, my feeling

is that for me personally, because I do take in more, and also have

the ability to extrapolate possible outcomes and evaluate the

possible ramifications of the things I see, seeing events that non-

Aspies would regard as everyday events could be quiet traumatic for

me.

Driving is a perfect example of this. I see other dirvers make bad

decisions that could result in accidents but by sheer luck or

reactions from other drivers, they avoid collisions.

I have come to believe that one of the reason us folks on the

spectrum stay in " our own little worlds " is simply that it is

too " painful " to look around and see what others are doing.

I think AS people are halfway between non-Aspies and full-blown

autistics. Non-Aspies are failly clueless in being able to see what

might happen to them as the resut of their poor decisions and full-

blown autisics are a bit like Rainman where they take statistics to

the extreme. (Rainman wouldn't fly any airline but Quaantass because

at that time, that airline alone never had a crash. But what Rainman

didn't think about was that just because no Quaantass flight ever

crashed, that was no indicator that it wouldn't crash on the very

next flight.)

The " middle of the road " approach to looking at the world (our way)

in other words) is best, I am convinced. It may be an impairment

when viewed from a neurotypical perspective but I think Aspies would

have fewer problems than neurotypicals if the randomness and chaotic

aspects of the neurotypical world were removed.

Tom

Just recently an autism expert told me that people with AS take in

more than those without - they actually do have more to process

because they take so much in. So even though people with AS may have

trouble reading non verbal clues we are still taking in a lot more

than NT's :-) This guy also explained that those with AS have a

strong and deep sense of injustice and do not let go of things such

as this easily - they also dislike it if they feel they are not being

listened to :-) go figure - did you hear me by the way ;-) were you

listening ;-)

[Guest guest]

Let's see: embracing diversity means using AS as an excuse for unprofessional behavior? That first teacher more than likely IMO has no business teaching. She does not have to agree with a differing point of view, but the least she could do is allow it to be expressed. "Amy L. " <amyb_short@...> wrote:

.... from The Chronicle of Higher Education.

http://chronicle.com/free/v52/i04/04b00701.htm

(so much for embracing diversity ..)

AmyIf you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/2005 8:31:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, cennis007@... writes:

There was also a substitution racket here for Chinese restaraunts using cat meat substituted in their menus. I guess the next step will be sweet & sour pork containing cuts from executed criminals from China :-)

Evan

There was a subsitution scam in China recently. There was a restaraunt claiming it had tiger meat for sale. That's highly illegal, but the Chinese think it gives them sexual prowess so they are crazy about it. It turns out the place was selling plain donkey meat which was marinated in tiger urine to give it some tang. What I find amusing about this was the store owner was charging the black market rate of almost $800 per pound for the meat.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/2005 8:41:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, cennis007@... writes:

I know another 'urban myth' in circulation about a guy having reproductive emmisions over the thick shake dispensor at a burger chain beginning with 'M' and ending in 's' before the store was opened. The legend goes that he was sacked but they couldnt empty out the dispensor machine in time for trading so let it be.

I knew the guy at the time and he was indeed sacked. And so ,yes the story in this case is true.

Thickshake anyone? :-),

Evan

We had a case here in town where a disgruntled employee at the Outback Steakhouse was urinating on the steaks as he cooked them. They don't know how long he had been doing that before they caught him.

[Guest guest]

Tom, I agree.

By the way, Qantas still is the only international airline that has never had a fatality.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

Huh? What?Don't you HATE it when someone says things like that after you've just said something important? It's happened to me many times.In reference to everything else in the paragraph below, my feeling is that for me personally, because I do take in more, and also have the ability to extrapolate possible outcomes and evaluate the possible ramifications of the things I see, seeing events that non-Aspies would regard as everyday events could be quiet traumatic for me. Driving is a perfect example of this. I see other dirvers make bad decisions that could result in accidents but by sheer luck or reactions from other drivers, they avoid collisions. I have come to believe that one of the reason us folks on the spectrum stay in "our own little worlds" is simply that it is too "painful" to look around and see what

others are doing. I think AS people are halfway between non-Aspies and full-blown autistics. Non-Aspies are failly clueless in being able to see what might happen to them as the resut of their poor decisions and full-blown autisics are a bit like Rainman where they take statistics to the extreme. (Rainman wouldn't fly any airline but Quaantass because at that time, that airline alone never had a crash. But what Rainman didn't think about was that just because no Quaantass flight ever crashed, that was no indicator that it wouldn't crash on the very next flight.)The "middle of the road" approach to looking at the world (our way) in other words) is best, I am convinced. It may be an impairment when viewed from a neurotypical perspective but I think Aspies would have fewer problems than neurotypicals if the randomness and chaotic aspects of the neurotypical world were removed.TomJust recently an autism expert told me that people with AS take inmore than those without - they actually do have more to processbecause they take so much in. So even though people with AS may havetrouble reading non verbal clues we are still taking in a lot morethan NT's :-) This guy also explained that those with AS have astrong and deep sense of injustice and do not let go of things suchas this easily - they also dislike it if they feel they are not beinglistened to :-) go figure - did you hear me by the way ;-) were youlistening ;-)

for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

Tom,

The kangaroo urban myth you talk about is partly true.

But is was 's.

Here's how it happened.

The criminal elements got into the meat industry in Australia and were substituting kangaroo meat instead of beef.

's at the time were buying alot of Australian beef.

Hence alot of burgers were actually kangaroo meat. This is true.

But not to worry, kangaroo is a more superior meat, less fat.

Shaun.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

,I took a folklore class in college and one of the things we studied was the perpetuation of urban legends. Such as: Mcs started using Kangeroo meat for their hamburgers, etc. The value of the "tragic horror story" seems to have added weight in comparrison with other topics in social circles. I think social status might be determined somewhat by the speaker's ability to captivate their audience or toy with their emotions. This is why lots of meetings open up with a joke to "break the ice." Or why tragedies are shared more often than triumphs at social gatherings.TomAlso my mother and some other people I know seem to delight in what Iconsider 'horror stories' - what I mean is true to life

stories oftradgedy. My mum actually started telling me of one on bus other dayand then it put her in a mood and yet it was her that had brought itup and talked about it - confusing. It was story of someone in atransport crash and she knew of some of the gruesome details, butwhen I asked how crash had happened she was at a loss and me askingthis question seemed to annoy her.__________________________________________________