Re: Socializing online/offline

September 11, 2005

Is it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to another perceived individual.

I am constantly asking my husband and others how what I do and say look and sound. Although I am pretty good at "passing," I often get unexpected reactions to things I do and/or say. I am increasingly more often puzzled by things others do and say. Maybe I'm just older, less tolerant and/or more out of touch than in the past.

Amy

September 11, 2005

Ones outer identity is defined and envisioned by oneself by ones own interpretation of experiences and those that define it of one another.

I like my inner-ality much better then attempting to exist within a subjected reality of an outer identity.

heh"Amy L. " <amyb_short@...> wrote:

Is it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to another perceived individual.

I am constantly asking my husband and others how what I do and say look and sound. Although I am pretty good at "passing," I often get unexpected reactions to things I do and/or say. I am increasingly more often puzzled by things others do and say. Maybe I'm just older, less tolerant and/or more out of touch than in the past.

Amy

September 11, 2005

I have to ask - if you have no desire to socialize off line then why

seek the desire to do so?

To me it is quite natural not to desire socializing - if it is

natural to a person to do so then that is fine for them - but if it

is not natural then why force it? - forcing oneself to do something

that goes against one's being is not always a good thing I have found.

When I was younger I was pressurised into socializing - people trying

to get me to go out - becuase it was their belief that was what I

should be doing - and then I would get accused of being anti-social

because I would sit and read a book or draw, but to me the majority

of the time the conversations were mind numbingly boring and my book

or art was far more interesting :-)

To me I see nothing wrong with socializing on line and also I find

distance and writing a much better way for me to communicate -

generally face to face RL communication is much more difficult,

usually involving stressful sensory stuff and confusing things -

although there are sometimes exceptions to this, but in the most part

I prefer written communication. I have often expressed myself to

those in my life (off line) via writing - because I cannot do it

verbally sometimes.

I was wondering since you write quite well and have an abudance of

ideas - would not some off line writing group be appropriate for you

to join?

" Someone on another board told me I needed " social classes " and this

subject has been on my mind on and off since. "

There is a term in the UK called 'normalization' which makes me

shudder. I do not want normalizing. However in the past I underwent a

lot of counselling to enable me to be able to communicate verbally -

as before the counselling I could not even talk to a stranger. So I

did learn some skills - but in the whole shceme of things consider

them fairly pointless and do not really desire to talk to people I do

not know - at least I know I can if need be - but to me personally I

do not consider it a valuable skill.

" Is it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is

projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of

knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to

another perceived individual. "

I certainly was not aware until fairly recently of how I come across

to others - how they percieve me - is this what you meant? It is as

if my body language lies or something and I can send confusing

signals out without intending to - because I am generally totally

unaware of how I am coming across. My tone of voice does not always

match how I feel either.

" I am perhaps over thinking this? "

I personally do not think you are over thinking this - it is my

opinion most people do not think enough - but I have been accused of

thinking too much by others so maybe my opinion on this is biased by

the fact that I think a lot and therefore consider it the norm.

>

> Socializing

>

> If it was not for the internet I would not often speak to other

people. Still having to reference myelf with a label known as

autism\a.s this explains that. Other then on my phone to my parents

whom I know especially my mother and not so much in clearity my

father I speak seldomly to people.

>

> 1. I think online forums are stressful for the most part and have

thought them to be so previously. It is why I only speak on a few and

most of the time one at a time.

>

> 2. I need to find a way to socialize in real-life offline but as I

said I do lack the desire. New people are stressful situations and I

do not at all share one central interest rather many of introduction

but similar. If and when I talk of my interests no one understands it

or I have a major difficulty articulating it. It is not as if I am

impaired vocally however relying upon visual spatial thought styles.

>

> I do not relate to others nor desire to but wonder how to desire

to offline.

>

> Perhaps when it comes to socializing I could talk endlessly and

likely repeat myself on the same things however said differently many

times and for long durations.

>

> Or as I am now where I talk seldomly to others offline. I wonder to

myself why I do not desire or somehow require socialization like

others I have been of witness too. They seem to thrive on it and

personally I find the experience requiring of thought adaptation and

personas.

>

> Is it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is

projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of

knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to

another perceived individual.

>

> I am perhaps over thinking this?

>

> Someone on another board told me I needed " social classes " and this

subject has been on my mind on and off since. I initially found the

statement against me in a social disagreement. I thought it was

insulting because it made me feel as if my expressions are impaired

and has made me think I am somehow not properly functional

expressively.

September 11, 2005

Okiedokie

Nice socialization this evening.

No, those people are not good to know and tried to depart from the person.

Natahn said:"Or as I am now where I talk seldomly to others offline. I wonder to myself why I do not desire or somehow require socialization like others I have been of witness too."The simple answer is that it's a characteristic of AS that you simply do not wish to socialize. However, I have pondered the same question myself, and I know what you are truly asking. I have come to believe that it's just that our brains are wired in such a way that socializing in person is not necessary for us to achieve happiness."Someone on another board told me I needed "social classes" and this subject has been on my mind on and off since. I initially found the statement against me in a social disagreement. I thought it was insulting because it made me feel as if my expressions are impaired and has made me think I am somehow not properly functional expressively."Your manner of expression is different than mine and

different than the ways of expression others have. For purposes of clarity, you may wish to take classes, but if you consider your manner or expression to be part of your own uniqueness and self-identity, then I would not change a thing.You see , for someone to get to know you, they must listen to you and try to understand you. That is not something non-Aspies care to do because their mode of communication is based upon the quick exchange of information, and the information exchanged does not generally appear to have much depth. You are a person who is very intellectual, and so for people to understand you, they firhst have to unscramble your manner of speaking and then try to undherstand that which you are trying to impart. I believe that people who are truly interested in knowing you will make the effort and those who are NOT interested in knowing you will either NOT make the effort or will criticize

you. And are such people worth knowing? That is for you to decide.Tom

September 11, 2005

Okiedokie

Nice socialization this evening.

No, those people are not good to know and tried to depart from the person.

Natahn said:"Or as I am now where I talk seldomly to others offline. I wonder to myself why I do not desire or somehow require socialization like others I have been of witness too."The simple answer is that it's a characteristic of AS that you simply do not wish to socialize. However, I have pondered the same question myself, and I know what you are truly asking. I have come to believe that it's just that our brains are wired in such a way that socializing in person is not necessary for us to achieve happiness."Someone on another board told me I needed "social classes" and this subject has been on my mind on and off since. I initially found the statement against me in a social disagreement. I thought it was insulting because it made me feel as if my expressions are impaired and has made me think I am somehow not properly functional expressively."Your manner of expression is different than mine and

different than the ways of expression others have. For purposes of clarity, you may wish to take classes, but if you consider your manner or expression to be part of your own uniqueness and self-identity, then I would not change a thing.You see , for someone to get to know you, they must listen to you and try to understand you. That is not something non-Aspies care to do because their mode of communication is based upon the quick exchange of information, and the information exchanged does not generally appear to have much depth. You are a person who is very intellectual, and so for people to understand you, they firhst have to unscramble your manner of speaking and then try to undherstand that which you are trying to impart. I believe that people who are truly interested in knowing you will make the effort and those who are NOT interested in knowing you will either NOT make the effort or will criticize

you. And are such people worth knowing? That is for you to decide.Tom

September 11, 2005

" To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person. "

I am not so sure about that - generally yes - RL interaction is much

more different from online interaction - however meeting somebody off

the boards (from the boards) in RL was a pleasant surprise. We seemed

exactly the same as our online persons - maybe this was just a unique

experience and I do realise that generally online communication is a

world apart from offline, but maybe not always.

For example - people on these boards - if they are as open and honest

as they appear I would then assume they would be no different in RL -

but then I could be wrong and maybe just taking people at face value,

but I suppose getting to know people online then if there is a RL

meeting there may be less awkwardness as one has already done the

preliminary ground work of getting to know them via online - I can

already distinguish between different styles - like personality I

suppose - in seperate individuals posts on these boards.

>

> I do not know why I have no interest in socializing. To me online

is just text things, it is not like people in person. I wonder if it

is a bad thing not to want to socialize but then to wonder means the

desire to have desire. Maybe socializing in person has never really

been a favorite thing of mine unless of my interest. I would not know

where to go to meet people and I do not like getting use to new

people. Even when I had a business for a while I could not really

enjoy people rather working on computer building.

>

> When I built computers all I had to talk to people about was

computer parts. I cannot do that anymore because I got very

uninterested in social interactions. How to have the desire for

social interaction but I never really had a particular interest in it

prior.

>

> I really have nothing much to say to people. Most of the time no

one is like me and shares no common interest... I think I feel

trapped by incompatibility of my self as if I was not meant to do

such things. Sort as if I am left out of such things permanently.

>

> As far as online social interaction I feel that I should eventually

be absent of it. However just do my own things and talk to a select

few.

>

> I do not really want to write.

>

September 11, 2005

" To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person. "

I am not so sure about that - generally yes - RL interaction is much

more different from online interaction - however meeting somebody off

the boards (from the boards) in RL was a pleasant surprise. We seemed

exactly the same as our online persons - maybe this was just a unique

experience and I do realise that generally online communication is a

world apart from offline, but maybe not always.

For example - people on these boards - if they are as open and honest

as they appear I would then assume they would be no different in RL -

but then I could be wrong and maybe just taking people at face value,

but I suppose getting to know people online then if there is a RL

meeting there may be less awkwardness as one has already done the

preliminary ground work of getting to know them via online - I can

already distinguish between different styles - like personality I

suppose - in seperate individuals posts on these boards.

>

> I do not know why I have no interest in socializing. To me online

is just text things, it is not like people in person. I wonder if it

is a bad thing not to want to socialize but then to wonder means the

desire to have desire. Maybe socializing in person has never really

been a favorite thing of mine unless of my interest. I would not know

where to go to meet people and I do not like getting use to new

people. Even when I had a business for a while I could not really

enjoy people rather working on computer building.

>

> When I built computers all I had to talk to people about was

computer parts. I cannot do that anymore because I got very

uninterested in social interactions. How to have the desire for

social interaction but I never really had a particular interest in it

prior.

>

> I really have nothing much to say to people. Most of the time no

one is like me and shares no common interest... I think I feel

trapped by incompatibility of my self as if I was not meant to do

such things. Sort as if I am left out of such things permanently.

>

> As far as online social interaction I feel that I should eventually

be absent of it. However just do my own things and talk to a select

few.

>

> I do not really want to write.

>

September 11, 2005

It seems most certainly odd these social things. Nothing else I have to say to project identity and situations comparatively. I talked to a new manager briefly the other day. I did not think that to be stressful at all as the persons persona were much better then that of the previous manager.

People are like Christmas time and gifts, they expect reactions I think.

I do not need social classes I am fine the way I am. So real life one must have such a great desire to socialize that it made possible through attempt. I suppose it is then ok not to do so as all.greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

"To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person."I am not so sure about that - generally yes - RL interaction is much more different from online interaction - however meeting somebody off the boards (from the boards) in RL was a pleasant surprise. We seemed exactly the same as our online persons - maybe this was just a unique experience and I do realise that generally online communication is a world apart from offline, but maybe not always.For example - people on these boards - if they are as open and honest as they appear I would then assume they would be no different in RL - but then I could be wrong and maybe just taking people at face value, but I suppose getting to know people online then if there is a RL meeting there may be less awkwardness as one has already done the preliminary ground work of

getting to know them via online - I can already distinguish between different styles - like personality I suppose - in seperate individuals posts on these boards.

September 11, 2005

It seems most certainly odd these social things. Nothing else I have to say to project identity and situations comparatively. I talked to a new manager briefly the other day. I did not think that to be stressful at all as the persons persona were much better then that of the previous manager.

People are like Christmas time and gifts, they expect reactions I think.

I do not need social classes I am fine the way I am. So real life one must have such a great desire to socialize that it made possible through attempt. I suppose it is then ok not to do so as all.greebohere <julie.stevenson16@...> wrote:

"To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person."I am not so sure about that - generally yes - RL interaction is much more different from online interaction - however meeting somebody off the boards (from the boards) in RL was a pleasant surprise. We seemed exactly the same as our online persons - maybe this was just a unique experience and I do realise that generally online communication is a world apart from offline, but maybe not always.For example - people on these boards - if they are as open and honest as they appear I would then assume they would be no different in RL - but then I could be wrong and maybe just taking people at face value, but I suppose getting to know people online then if there is a RL meeting there may be less awkwardness as one has already done the preliminary ground work of

getting to know them via online - I can already distinguish between different styles - like personality I suppose - in seperate individuals posts on these boards.

September 11, 2005

" People are like Christmas time and gifts, they expect reactions I

think. "

I agree that to be mostly the case and I have a tendency to

dissapoint when I cannot and do not re-act - some have even tried to

provoke re-action in me and if that is the case they are grossly

dissapointed :-) Quite often people seem to be dissapointed by my

apparent lack of emotions too - but I do have them and those who know

me well know this.

" I do not need social classes I am fine the way I am. "

I am glad you have come to that conclusion - those who disagree with

it are trying to project their ideal of who you should be onto you -

it is none of their business if you are harming none you should have

the freedom to be who you want or how you want; those that matter

will accept you for you and not try to create something else that

would not be you.

>

> It seems most certainly odd these social things. Nothing else I

have to say to project identity and situations comparatively. I

talked to a new manager briefly the other day. I did not think that

to be stressful at all as the persons persona were much better then

that of the previous manager.

>

> People are like Christmas time and gifts, they expect reactions I

think.

>

> I do not need social classes I am fine the way I am. So real life

one must have such a great desire to socialize that it made possible

through attempt. I suppose it is then ok not to do so as all.

>

September 11, 2005

" People are like Christmas time and gifts, they expect reactions I

think. "

I agree that to be mostly the case and I have a tendency to

dissapoint when I cannot and do not re-act - some have even tried to

provoke re-action in me and if that is the case they are grossly

dissapointed :-) Quite often people seem to be dissapointed by my

apparent lack of emotions too - but I do have them and those who know

me well know this.

" I do not need social classes I am fine the way I am. "

I am glad you have come to that conclusion - those who disagree with

it are trying to project their ideal of who you should be onto you -

it is none of their business if you are harming none you should have

the freedom to be who you want or how you want; those that matter

will accept you for you and not try to create something else that

would not be you.

>

> It seems most certainly odd these social things. Nothing else I

have to say to project identity and situations comparatively. I

talked to a new manager briefly the other day. I did not think that

to be stressful at all as the persons persona were much better then

that of the previous manager.

>

> People are like Christmas time and gifts, they expect reactions I

think.

>

> I do not need social classes I am fine the way I am. So real life

one must have such a great desire to socialize that it made possible

through attempt. I suppose it is then ok not to do so as all.

>

September 11, 2005

Tom,

I think it may be somewhere in the middle of each of our opinions. When it comes to "understanding" what others do and say, I think it may be more accurate to say I become frustrated with the stock predictability, in many cases, of what others' responses are regardless of the variability of the situation that makes up the stimulus. Perhaps I am afraid I understand this behavior all too well. (I ask myself: "Can this be as simplistic as it seems to me?")

I am also frustrated that my thoughts and behaviors are sometimes misinterpreted by others. This misinterpretation might take the form of a response by others that does not match a point I am trying to make, or a lack of acknowledgement of an idea I am trying to present. On more that one occasion, I have later observed that my ideas are then "plagiarized" by other people as if it were their own, without attribution. But these are just examples -- not the sum total of my frustration.

In general, I find I increasingly crave withdrawal. I think I have less tolerance for the predictable disappointment of interacting with others. (Still, this is not 100 percent of time.) On the other hand, I am trying to avoid foregone conclusions.

Amy

From: environmental1st2003

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:25 PM

Subject: Re: Socializing online/offline

Amy,I find that I understand the comments and behavior of others (although I often think the behaviors are silly) but I do NOT understand why my comments and behaviors are sometimes not well recieved by others.Is this closer to what you mean? Or is what you said more accurate of what you meant?TomIs it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to another perceived individual.I am constantly asking my husband and others how what I do and say look and sound. Although I am pretty good at "passing," I often get unexpected reactions to things I do and/or say. I am increasingly more often puzzled by things others do and say. Maybe I'm just older, less tolerant and/or more out of touch than in the past.Amy

September 11, 2005

Tom,

I think it may be somewhere in the middle of each of our opinions. When it comes to "understanding" what others do and say, I think it may be more accurate to say I become frustrated with the stock predictability, in many cases, of what others' responses are regardless of the variability of the situation that makes up the stimulus. Perhaps I am afraid I understand this behavior all too well. (I ask myself: "Can this be as simplistic as it seems to me?")

I am also frustrated that my thoughts and behaviors are sometimes misinterpreted by others. This misinterpretation might take the form of a response by others that does not match a point I am trying to make, or a lack of acknowledgement of an idea I am trying to present. On more that one occasion, I have later observed that my ideas are then "plagiarized" by other people as if it were their own, without attribution. But these are just examples -- not the sum total of my frustration.

In general, I find I increasingly crave withdrawal. I think I have less tolerance for the predictable disappointment of interacting with others. (Still, this is not 100 percent of time.) On the other hand, I am trying to avoid foregone conclusions.

Amy

From: environmental1st2003

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:25 PM

Subject: Re: Socializing online/offline

Amy,I find that I understand the comments and behavior of others (although I often think the behaviors are silly) but I do NOT understand why my comments and behaviors are sometimes not well recieved by others.Is this closer to what you mean? Or is what you said more accurate of what you meant?TomIs it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to another perceived individual.I am constantly asking my husband and others how what I do and say look and sound. Although I am pretty good at "passing," I often get unexpected reactions to things I do and/or say. I am increasingly more often puzzled by things others do and say. Maybe I'm just older, less tolerant and/or more out of touch than in the past.Amy

September 11, 2005

Hello, everyone!

I love meeting people online...I think we have a chance to know people better when we use internet.

Well, still I think some people I relate better over the phone, some folks I prefer see real time, like my husband for ex, and some I think I prefer internet.

I have met some people I got to know in internet in real life...and usually the experience was great. One of them I was so close to him it was like magic being in person. The two things that make me feel a bit unsecure when I meet in internet and then in rl is that I wonder if they won´t like my face, if they will find me ugly, or old, or in a way they dislike me physically, like, too fat, or maybe my skin not that perfect or whatever. I also fear sudden intelectual subjects which I am not certain. When using internet I can alaways do a quick research to be sure at least on what is being talked about...in rl I could not do that. I am usully better at subjects I have given a thought about...sudden requests to express my opinion on a subject I have not thought about might either get me nervous and saying somehting out of impulse and not so clear or smart, hehe.

In rl I am also affraid I won´t be sure which profile of myself I want emphasize.

On the other hand,rl can be lots more espontaneous and magic when you notice people like you and you like them. It can also be happier.

Well, good sunday to everyone.

Marilia

Re: Socializing online/offline

"To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person."I am not so sure about that - generally yes - RL interaction is much more different from online interaction - however meeting somebody off the boards (from the boards) in RL was a pleasant surprise. We seemed exactly the same as our online persons - maybe this was just a unique experience and I do realise that generally online communication is a world apart from offline, but maybe not always.For example - people on these boards - if they are as open and honest as they appear I would then assume they would be no different in RL - but then I could be wrong and maybe just taking people at face value, but I suppose getting to know people online then if there is a RL meeting there may be less awkwardness as one has already done the preliminary ground work of getting to know them via online - I can already distinguish between different styles - like personality I suppose - in seperate individuals posts on these boards. > > I do not know why I have no interest in socializing. To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person. I wonder if it is a bad thing not to want to socialize but then to wonder means the desire to have desire. Maybe socializing in person has never really been a favorite thing of mine unless of my interest. I would not know where to go to meet people and I do not like getting use to new people. Even when I had a business for a while I could not really enjoy people rather working on computer building.> > > > When I built computers all I had to talk to people about was computer parts. I cannot do that anymore because I got very uninterested in social interactions. How to have the desire for social interaction but I never really had a particular interest in it prior.> > > > I really have nothing much to say to people. Most of the time no one is like me and shares no common interest... I think I feel trapped by incompatibility of my self as if I was not meant to do such things. Sort as if I am left out of such things permanently.> > > > As far as online social interaction I feel that I should eventually be absent of it. However just do my own things and talk to a select few.> > I do not really want to write. > > > > >

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/9/2005

September 11, 2005

Hello, everyone!

I love meeting people online...I think we have a chance to know people better when we use internet.

Well, still I think some people I relate better over the phone, some folks I prefer see real time, like my husband for ex, and some I think I prefer internet.

I have met some people I got to know in internet in real life...and usually the experience was great. One of them I was so close to him it was like magic being in person. The two things that make me feel a bit unsecure when I meet in internet and then in rl is that I wonder if they won´t like my face, if they will find me ugly, or old, or in a way they dislike me physically, like, too fat, or maybe my skin not that perfect or whatever. I also fear sudden intelectual subjects which I am not certain. When using internet I can alaways do a quick research to be sure at least on what is being talked about...in rl I could not do that. I am usully better at subjects I have given a thought about...sudden requests to express my opinion on a subject I have not thought about might either get me nervous and saying somehting out of impulse and not so clear or smart, hehe.

In rl I am also affraid I won´t be sure which profile of myself I want emphasize.

On the other hand,rl can be lots more espontaneous and magic when you notice people like you and you like them. It can also be happier.

Well, good sunday to everyone.

Marilia

Re: Socializing online/offline

"To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person."I am not so sure about that - generally yes - RL interaction is much more different from online interaction - however meeting somebody off the boards (from the boards) in RL was a pleasant surprise. We seemed exactly the same as our online persons - maybe this was just a unique experience and I do realise that generally online communication is a world apart from offline, but maybe not always.For example - people on these boards - if they are as open and honest as they appear I would then assume they would be no different in RL - but then I could be wrong and maybe just taking people at face value, but I suppose getting to know people online then if there is a RL meeting there may be less awkwardness as one has already done the preliminary ground work of getting to know them via online - I can already distinguish between different styles - like personality I suppose - in seperate individuals posts on these boards. > > I do not know why I have no interest in socializing. To me online is just text things, it is not like people in person. I wonder if it is a bad thing not to want to socialize but then to wonder means the desire to have desire. Maybe socializing in person has never really been a favorite thing of mine unless of my interest. I would not know where to go to meet people and I do not like getting use to new people. Even when I had a business for a while I could not really enjoy people rather working on computer building.> > > > When I built computers all I had to talk to people about was computer parts. I cannot do that anymore because I got very uninterested in social interactions. How to have the desire for social interaction but I never really had a particular interest in it prior.> > > > I really have nothing much to say to people. Most of the time no one is like me and shares no common interest... I think I feel trapped by incompatibility of my self as if I was not meant to do such things. Sort as if I am left out of such things permanently.> > > > As far as online social interaction I feel that I should eventually be absent of it. However just do my own things and talk to a select few.> > I do not really want to write. > > > > >

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/9/2005

September 11, 2005

> I have to ask - if you have no desire to socialize off line then why

> seek the desire to do so?

To : tell me if I'm wrong, but if you seek

the desire to communicate with others off line,

I'd dare say you already have the desire.

> I have often expressed myself to

> those in my life (off line) via writing - because I cannot do it

> verbally sometimes.

I've done this a lot as well. I don't think very quickly

on my feet, so often what I needed to say will not

come to me until later. Writing is excellent for that.

> I was wondering since you write quite well and have an abudance of

> ideas - would not some off line writing group be appropriate for you

> to join?

Good idea. Just be sure you find the right one.

The wrong one will be as useless as the average

party.

> " Someone on another board told me I needed " social classes " and this

> subject has been on my mind on and off since. "

I've heard this suggestion, too. That may be good

for learning the proper social graces, but can they

teach a person how to really connect with another?

Probably not. You can't really teach connection.

> " Is it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is

> projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of

> knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to

> another perceived individual. "

>

> I certainly was not aware until fairly recently of how I come across

> to others - how they percieve me - is this what you meant? It is as

> if my body language lies or something and I can send confusing

> signals out without intending to - because I am generally totally

> unaware of how I am coming across. My tone of voice does not always

> match how I feel either.

Believe it or not, there's actually a word for the

chronic version of this: " dyssemia. " There's even a

few books on the subject, and others that mention

it.

> " I am perhaps over thinking this? "

I don't know if you're overthinking this. It's possible,

but since we do live in a society where socialization

is considered important by most, maybe it should be

thought about extensively.

September 11, 2005

“To : tell me if I'm wrong, but if you seekthe desire to communicate with others off line, I'd dare say you already have the desire”

No only the desire for desire. Other people make it seem like there is something wrong with me. Such as the lady on another board saying I needed social classes. On the same board another person insulated my method of expression with something belittling. I told the owner of the board in chat that her place was not an safe place for people with A.S and I was leaving. Instead I was banned and was told I am not compatible enough with forums in so many words.I have not enough desire to venture out to explore to find such things. I have no desire ultimately other then being put down for such things.The owner of the that board told me there was something else wrong with me besides autism becuase autism people according to the owner that banned me after I said I was leaving likes socialization. I think they were just putting me

down..

"how they perceive me - is this what you meant?"

I think so, to try to envision such things seem more like false possibilities given the fact absolutes are near impossible of another mind.caltrec10 <caltrec10@...> wrote:

> I have to ask - if you have no desire to socialize off line then why > seek the desire to do so?To : tell me if I'm wrong, but if you seekthe desire to communicate with others off line, I'd dare say you already have the desire.> I have often expressed myself to > those in my life (off line) via writing - because I cannot do it > verbally sometimes.I've done this a lot as well. I don't think very quicklyon my feet, so often what I needed to say will not come to me until later. Writing is excellent for that.> I was wondering since you write quite well and have an abudance of > ideas - would not some off line writing group be appropriate for you > to join?Good idea. Just be

sure you find the right one.The wrong one will be as useless as the average party.> "Someone on another board told me I needed "social classes" and this > subject has been on my mind on and off since."I've heard this suggestion, too. That may be goodfor learning the proper social graces, but can theyteach a person how to really connect with another?Probably not. You can't really teach connection.> "Is it possible to be blind to ones own self-identity in how it is > projected to another? As to say not blindness of eyes however of > knowing the projected character archetype of oneself in relation to > another perceived individual."> > I certainly was not aware until fairly recently of how I come across > to others - how they percieve me - is this what you meant? It is as > if my body language lies or something and I can send confusing > signals out without intending to -

because I am generally totally > unaware of how I am coming across. My tone of voice does not always > match how I feel either.Believe it or not, there's actually a word for thechronic version of this: "dyssemia." There's even afew books on the subject, and others that mentionit. > "I am perhaps over thinking this?"I don't know if you're overthinking this. It's possible,but since we do live in a society where socializationis considered important by most, maybe it should bethought about extensively

September 11, 2005

" The owner of the that board told me there was something else wrong

with me besides autism becuase autism people according to the owner

that banned me after I said I was leaving likes socialization. "

Not so long ago I had a bit of a run in with someone in RL - they

came out with the they thought there must be something more than just

autism wrong with me - well they would - I was disagreeing with them -

obviously in their mind anyone who disagreed with them just had to

be wrong :-) and I don't think having autism makes one wrong either -

just different from those without autism. Though we are still all

human - I think ;-)

>

> " To : tell me if I'm wrong, but if you seek

> the desire to communicate with others off line,

> I'd dare say you already have the desire "

>

> No only the desire for desire. Other people make it seem like there

is something wrong with me. Such as the lady on another board saying

I needed social classes. On the same board another person insulated

my method of expression with something belittling. I told the owner

of the board in chat that her place was not an safe place for people

with A.S and I was leaving. Instead I was banned and was told I am

not compatible enough with forums in so many words.

>

> I have not enough desire to venture out to explore to find such

things. I have no desire ultimately other then being put down for

such things.

>

> The owner of the that board told me there was something else wrong

with me besides autism becuase autism people according to the owner

that banned me after I said I was leaving likes socialization.

>

> I think they were just putting me down..

>

> " how they perceive me - is this what you meant? "

>

> I think so, to try to envision such things seem more like false

possibilities given the fact absolutes are near impossible of another

mind.

>

September 12, 2005

Amy,

I understand exactly what you are saying as far " stock responses " are

concerned.

To put it bluntly (and this is going to sound VERY arrogant) I

sometimes feel that people do not have the intellectual capacity to

carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with me.

THIS FORUM -and sometimes others- is the exception to the rule.

Aspies may seem quiet and reserved publically. People may take this

quietness as idiocy. But get to know an Aspie very well and you will

find that even low functioning ones can be quite intellectual with

many dazzling ideas and concepts to convery and put forth into the

bargain.

My thoughts and behaviors are very much misuderstood also. This holds

true primarily because other people either don't

A) Completely understand what it is I am talking about or doing, or

Have not considered anything that I am talking about or doing in

any sort of depth, or

C) They respond negatively out of some sort of social duty if what I

am saying or doing goes against societal norms.

In all three cases I blame the other person as being either too

mentally obtuse to receive the width and breadth of my ideas or

behaviors, or else the societal dictates that they run their lives

with are too ingrained for them to accept what I am saying or doing.

The older I get, the more I desire withdawal too. For me the reason

is that I see people as " prospects. " That is to say, I think to

myself " Maybe THIS new person will be someone I can relate to. "

And with each new person turning out NOT to be an intellectual match,

I figure, well ANOTHER failure, so what's the use.

My counselor told me that was a bad attitude. I told her that I was

34 years old (this was two years ago) and that if I hadn't found an

intellectual match in all that time after meeting so many people then

shit, why bother???

Tom

Administrator

Tom,

I think it may be somewhere in the middle of each of our opinions.

When it comes to " understanding " what others do and say, I think it

may be more accurate to say I become frustrated with the stock

predictability, in many cases, of what others' responses are

regardless of the variability of the situation that makes up the

stimulus. Perhaps I am afraid I understand this behavior all too

well. (I ask myself: " Can this be as simplistic as it seems to me? " )

I am also frustrated that my thoughts and behaviors are sometimes

misinterpreted by others. This misinterpretation might take the form

of a response by others that does not match a point I am trying to

make, or a lack of acknowledgement of an idea I am trying to present.

On more that one occasion, I have later observed that my ideas are

then " plagiarized " by other people as if it were their own, without

attribution. But these are just examples -- not the sum total of my

frustration.

In general, I find I increasingly crave withdrawal. I think I have

less tolerance for the predictable disappointment of interacting with

others. (Still, this is not 100 percent of time.) On the other hand,

I am trying to avoid foregone conclusions.

Amy

September 12, 2005

,

You said:

" Other people make it seem like there is something wrong with me.

Such as the lady on another board saying I needed social classes. "

, let me be blunt. The board of which you speak is a social

board for Aspies. Half the people that post there are undiagnosed and

admit that they don't even have Aspie traits but just like the people

who post there. The lady who said you need social classes said that

because you were, in her opinion, anti-social.

Well of course you are anti-social. You've been diagnosed with

Asperger's Syndrome. If she is social, then either she does not have

the social deficiencies that other Aspies do, or else she simply does

not have Asperger Syndrome.

If anyone ought to be thrown off that board it would be that lady. I

know because I read the exchange.

" On the same board another person insulated my method of expression

with something belittling. I told the owner of the board in chat that

her place was not an safe place for people with A.S and I was

leaving. Instead I was banned and was told I am not compatible enough

with forums in so many words. "

If it's the board I am thinking of, the owner of that board does not

have AS but pretends she does because a counselor thought she MIGHT

have it. That woman takes offense at anyone who criticizes her board.

Many of the people posting here are ones who have been banned like

you have.

Now if it's the OTHER board I am thinking of, then the owner just

doesn't like you. That's why she banned me.

" The owner of the that board told me there was something else wrong

with me besides autism becuase autism people according to the owner

that banned me after I said I was leaving likes socialization. "

Either of the owners I am thinking of believe that THEIR form of

autism is THE form of autism. Either that or they were just looking

for an excuse to ban you.

And I really think the reason that they banned you was that they saw

that you could see through them . You saw that they were

fakes, and so rather than accept their own faults, they put the

accuser -a real Aspie- YOU in other words, out of the way.

This is why I keep this forum open.

They treat DIAGNOSED Aspies like crap and let undiagnosed Aspies and

people who KNOW they are not Aspies but who like to socialize with

Aspies dominate the board.

THIS board is for diagnosed Aspies, self-diagnosed Aspies, or un-

diagnosed Aspies who THINK they are Aspies. Curiosity seekers are NOT

admitted.

" I think they were just putting me down. "

They were. They don't like you because you pointed out their faults,

and it is easier to hurt and insult you then correct their faults.

Don't mourn the loss of that board. I made the mistake of mourning

it's loss, and it's been a collossal waste of time. You have friends

here who think highly of you, and also have your own board to

administrate (whose membership is steadily increasing, I notice).

Tom

September 12, 2005

Tom,

Your entire message made me smile. This is precisely what my core mindset actually is, and I suppose I have been conditioned out of directly connecting with that (not necessarily for the better). My "reconditioned" approach has been making allowances for other people ("for they know not what they do"). This sort of undertow, however, does drag me down. More often, I opt for solitude/withdrawal/just being with my AS husband and my HFA son.

As far as despairing at age 34 of finding an intellectual equal, I would venture to say give it some more time.

Although I know that you may not be referring specifically to romantic relationships, My AS husband and I were married in 2003. He is definitely my intellectual equal and then some. It was my second marriage and his first. I am now 46 and my husband is 58.

As far as friends go, I have some very long-term "intellectually equal" friends that I stay in touch with even though we no longer live in the same places. (I relocated to where my husband lives when we got married, so I am a relative newcomer to where I now live.)

I am also friends with one of my husband's friends he knew from the time they were both in high school. He certainly has AS qualities, if not actually being AS himself. Other than that, I haven't met any new people I "click with" in quite some time, but I don't mind so much. I am certainly not meeting any among the English-department faculty at the community college where I teach part-time. . My recent frustration in the examples I gave come from interacting occasionally with that group.

Amy, happy to be me

Re: Socializing online/offline

Amy,I understand exactly what you are saying as far "stock responses" are concerned.To put it bluntly (and this is going to sound VERY arrogant) I sometimes feel that people do not have the intellectual capacity to carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with me. THIS FORUM -and sometimes others- is the exception to the rule. Aspies may seem quiet and reserved publically. People may take this quietness as idiocy. But get to know an Aspie very well and you will find that even low functioning ones can be quite intellectual with many dazzling ideas and concepts to convery and put forth into the bargain.My thoughts and behaviors are very much misuderstood also. This holds true primarily because other people either don'tA) Completely understand what it is I am talking about or doing, orB) Have not considered anything that I am talking about or doing in any sort of depth, orC) They respond negatively out of some sort of social duty if what I am saying or doing goes against societal norms. In all three cases I blame the other person as being either too mentally obtuse to receive the width and breadth of my ideas or behaviors, or else the societal dictates that they run their lives with are too ingrained for them to accept what I am saying or doing. The older I get, the more I desire withdawal too. For me the reason is that I see people as "prospects." That is to say, I think to myself "Maybe THIS new person will be someone I can relate to."And with each new person turning out NOT to be an intellectual match, I figure, well ANOTHER failure, so what's the use. My counselor told me that was a bad attitude. I told her that I was 34 years old (this was two years ago) and that if I hadn't found an intellectual match in all that time after meeting so many people then shit, why bother???TomAdministrator Tom, I think it may be somewhere in the middle of each of our opinions. When it comes to "understanding" what others do and say, I think it may be more accurate to say I become frustrated with the stock predictability, in many cases, of what others' responses are regardless of the variability of the situation that makes up the stimulus. Perhaps I am afraid I understand this behavior all too well. (I ask myself: "Can this be as simplistic as it seems to me?")I am also frustrated that my thoughts and behaviors are sometimes misinterpreted by others. This misinterpretation might take the form of a response by others that does not match a point I am trying to make, or a lack of acknowledgement of an idea I am trying to present. On more that one occasion, I have later observed that my ideas are then "plagiarized" by other people as if it were their own, without attribution. But these are just examples -- not the sum total of my frustration.In general, I find I increasingly crave withdrawal. I think I have less tolerance for the predictable disappointment of interacting with others. (Still, this is not 100 percent of time.) On the other hand, I am trying to avoid foregone conclusions.Amy

September 12, 2005

Tom,

Your entire message made me smile. This is precisely what my core mindset actually is, and I suppose I have been conditioned out of directly connecting with that (not necessarily for the better). My "reconditioned" approach has been making allowances for other people ("for they know not what they do"). This sort of undertow, however, does drag me down. More often, I opt for solitude/withdrawal/just being with my AS husband and my HFA son.

As far as despairing at age 34 of finding an intellectual equal, I would venture to say give it some more time.

Although I know that you may not be referring specifically to romantic relationships, My AS husband and I were married in 2003. He is definitely my intellectual equal and then some. It was my second marriage and his first. I am now 46 and my husband is 58.

As far as friends go, I have some very long-term "intellectually equal" friends that I stay in touch with even though we no longer live in the same places. (I relocated to where my husband lives when we got married, so I am a relative newcomer to where I now live.)

I am also friends with one of my husband's friends he knew from the time they were both in high school. He certainly has AS qualities, if not actually being AS himself. Other than that, I haven't met any new people I "click with" in quite some time, but I don't mind so much. I am certainly not meeting any among the English-department faculty at the community college where I teach part-time. . My recent frustration in the examples I gave come from interacting occasionally with that group.

Amy, happy to be me

Re: Socializing online/offline

Amy,I understand exactly what you are saying as far "stock responses" are concerned.To put it bluntly (and this is going to sound VERY arrogant) I sometimes feel that people do not have the intellectual capacity to carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with me. THIS FORUM -and sometimes others- is the exception to the rule. Aspies may seem quiet and reserved publically. People may take this quietness as idiocy. But get to know an Aspie very well and you will find that even low functioning ones can be quite intellectual with many dazzling ideas and concepts to convery and put forth into the bargain.My thoughts and behaviors are very much misuderstood also. This holds true primarily because other people either don'tA) Completely understand what it is I am talking about or doing, orB) Have not considered anything that I am talking about or doing in any sort of depth, orC) They respond negatively out of some sort of social duty if what I am saying or doing goes against societal norms. In all three cases I blame the other person as being either too mentally obtuse to receive the width and breadth of my ideas or behaviors, or else the societal dictates that they run their lives with are too ingrained for them to accept what I am saying or doing. The older I get, the more I desire withdawal too. For me the reason is that I see people as "prospects." That is to say, I think to myself "Maybe THIS new person will be someone I can relate to."And with each new person turning out NOT to be an intellectual match, I figure, well ANOTHER failure, so what's the use. My counselor told me that was a bad attitude. I told her that I was 34 years old (this was two years ago) and that if I hadn't found an intellectual match in all that time after meeting so many people then shit, why bother???TomAdministrator Tom, I think it may be somewhere in the middle of each of our opinions. When it comes to "understanding" what others do and say, I think it may be more accurate to say I become frustrated with the stock predictability, in many cases, of what others' responses are regardless of the variability of the situation that makes up the stimulus. Perhaps I am afraid I understand this behavior all too well. (I ask myself: "Can this be as simplistic as it seems to me?")I am also frustrated that my thoughts and behaviors are sometimes misinterpreted by others. This misinterpretation might take the form of a response by others that does not match a point I am trying to make, or a lack of acknowledgement of an idea I am trying to present. On more that one occasion, I have later observed that my ideas are then "plagiarized" by other people as if it were their own, without attribution. But these are just examples -- not the sum total of my frustration.In general, I find I increasingly crave withdrawal. I think I have less tolerance for the predictable disappointment of interacting with others. (Still, this is not 100 percent of time.) On the other hand, I am trying to avoid foregone conclusions.Amy

September 12, 2005

Tom,

Your entire message made me smile. This is precisely what my core mindset actually is, and I suppose I have been conditioned out of directly connecting with that (not necessarily for the better). My "reconditioned" approach has been making allowances for other people ("for they know not what they do"). This sort of undertow, however, does drag me down. More often, I opt for solitude/withdrawal/just being with my AS husband and my HFA son.

As far as despairing at age 34 of finding an intellectual equal, I would venture to say give it some more time.

Although I know that you may not be referring specifically to romantic relationships, My AS husband and I were married in 2003. He is definitely my intellectual equal and then some. It was my second marriage and his first. I am now 46 and my husband is 58.

As far as friends go, I have some very long-term "intellectually equal" friends that I stay in touch with even though we no longer live in the same places. (I relocated to where my husband lives when we got married, so I am a relative newcomer to where I now live.)

I am also friends with one of my husband's friends he knew from the time they were both in high school. He certainly has AS qualities, if not actually being AS himself. Other than that, I haven't met any new people I "click with" in quite some time, but I don't mind so much. I am certainly not meeting any among the English-department faculty at the community college where I teach part-time. . My recent frustration in the examples I gave come from interacting occasionally with that group.

Amy, happy to be me

Re: Socializing online/offline

Amy,I understand exactly what you are saying as far "stock responses" are concerned.To put it bluntly (and this is going to sound VERY arrogant) I sometimes feel that people do not have the intellectual capacity to carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with me. THIS FORUM -and sometimes others- is the exception to the rule. Aspies may seem quiet and reserved publically. People may take this quietness as idiocy. But get to know an Aspie very well and you will find that even low functioning ones can be quite intellectual with many dazzling ideas and concepts to convery and put forth into the bargain.My thoughts and behaviors are very much misuderstood also. This holds true primarily because other people either don'tA) Completely understand what it is I am talking about or doing, orB) Have not considered anything that I am talking about or doing in any sort of depth, orC) They respond negatively out of some sort of social duty if what I am saying or doing goes against societal norms. In all three cases I blame the other person as being either too mentally obtuse to receive the width and breadth of my ideas or behaviors, or else the societal dictates that they run their lives with are too ingrained for them to accept what I am saying or doing. The older I get, the more I desire withdawal too. For me the reason is that I see people as "prospects." That is to say, I think to myself "Maybe THIS new person will be someone I can relate to."And with each new person turning out NOT to be an intellectual match, I figure, well ANOTHER failure, so what's the use. My counselor told me that was a bad attitude. I told her that I was 34 years old (this was two years ago) and that if I hadn't found an intellectual match in all that time after meeting so many people then shit, why bother???TomAdministrator Tom, I think it may be somewhere in the middle of each of our opinions. When it comes to "understanding" what others do and say, I think it may be more accurate to say I become frustrated with the stock predictability, in many cases, of what others' responses are regardless of the variability of the situation that makes up the stimulus. Perhaps I am afraid I understand this behavior all too well. (I ask myself: "Can this be as simplistic as it seems to me?")I am also frustrated that my thoughts and behaviors are sometimes misinterpreted by others. This misinterpretation might take the form of a response by others that does not match a point I am trying to make, or a lack of acknowledgement of an idea I am trying to present. On more that one occasion, I have later observed that my ideas are then "plagiarized" by other people as if it were their own, without attribution. But these are just examples -- not the sum total of my frustration.In general, I find I increasingly crave withdrawal. I think I have less tolerance for the predictable disappointment of interacting with others. (Still, this is not 100 percent of time.) On the other hand, I am trying to avoid foregone conclusions.Amy

September 12, 2005

Discrimination is not something I will tolerate. The owner of that board also said he/she liked me and insulated that her liking-ness of me was different then other people . What exactly was the individual’s goal? I do not know but this place has annoyed me to the point that I want to have all my contents removed because of what some people have done. They make fun of me because of who I am. On the board it happened and the owner just said I was *iching. This person is not someone with A.S or is just mean and vicious. However it changes as in private chat where I was told both people messing me ill. Also I was told that half the people on her board has schizoid disorder of some kind.

I think she was talking about those with differences!

I resisted legally all my posts to be removed because of what has been done to me by mean people. They are my private thoughts in there database and are mine.

People play to many games.. On that board by that same person I was called a criminal with cohorts. I want to be completely de-affiliated with it, if they do not remove my posts I am going to Aspergia to request through there.

Aspergia no one every treated me like that. Only one person contacted me with swear words making fun of me and that same person other then the person saying I needed social classes slandered me clearly on that board with falsities here recently and I do not even know him nor have I ever talked to him!

MY writing is my writing and my choice to have where I want. I don't want it there anymore because of the way I was treated. My content is my content and I do not want it there because of personal information’s and people telling me on that board that people can find me from online. This was after my abortion stance.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

,You said:"Other people make it seem like there is something wrong with me. Such as the lady on another board saying I needed social classes.", let me be blunt. The board of which you speak is a social board for Aspies. Half the people that post there are undiagnosed and admit that they don't even have Aspie traits but just like the people who post there. The lady who said you need social classes said that because you were, in her opinion, anti-social.Well of course you are anti-social. You've been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. If she is social, then either she does not have the social deficiencies that other Aspies do, or else she simply does not have Asperger Syndrome.If anyone ought to be thrown off that board it would be that lady. I know because I read the exchange."On

the same board another person insulated my method of expression with something belittling. I told the owner of the board in chat that her place was not an safe place for people with A.S and I was leaving. Instead I was banned and was told I am not compatible enough with forums in so many words."If it's the board I am thinking of, the owner of that board does not have AS but pretends she does because a counselor thought she MIGHT have it. That woman takes offense at anyone who criticizes her board. Many of the people posting here are ones who have been banned like you have.Now if it's the OTHER board I am thinking of, then the owner just doesn't like you. That's why she banned me.:)"The owner of the that board told me there was something else wrong with me besides autism becuase autism people according to the owner that banned me after I said I was leaving likes socialization."Either of the owners I

am thinking of believe that THEIR form of autism is THE form of autism. Either that or they were just looking for an excuse to ban you. And I really think the reason that they banned you was that they saw that you could see through them . You saw that they were fakes, and so rather than accept their own faults, they put the accuser -a real Aspie- YOU in other words, out of the way.This is why I keep this forum open.They treat DIAGNOSED Aspies like crap and let undiagnosed Aspies and people who KNOW they are not Aspies but who like to socialize with Aspies dominate the board.THIS board is for diagnosed Aspies, self-diagnosed Aspies, or un-diagnosed Aspies who THINK they are Aspies. Curiosity seekers are NOT admitted."I think they were just putting me down."They were. They don't like you because you pointed out their faults, and it is easier to hurt and insult you then correct

their faults. Don't mourn the loss of that board. I made the mistake of mourning it's loss, and it's been a collossal waste of time. You have friends here who think highly of you, and also have your own board to administrate (whose membership is steadily increasing, I notice). Tom

September 12, 2005