Hot Temporals

[Guest guest]

One other question I have concerns the so-called " hot temporals. " I have levels

often approaching 20% red for both hibeta and beta, but no matter what I do, the

beta range won't come down. I can sometimes get hibeta down 10% at least -

sometimes even into the black range - but beta just won't budge.

I've used the TLC design, a bipolar wide-spectrum design with 2-12 & 15-38

inhibits, and my own design with just a straight up bell reward (which actually

has seemed to work the best), but still no help for the beta.

What I'm wondering is if it would make sense to break the single beta inhibit on

both sides into two inhibits (i.e., a 15-18 and a 19-38) to try to target the

beta zone better. Setting the range for single inhibit to 15-38 hasn't worked,

but I'm concerned about whether it would harmful to make a 15-18hz inhibit for

the left side. I thought that was almost always not a great idea. I once tried

with a 15-38 inhibit on the right, and a 19-38 on the left, but that seemed to

have a noticeably bad effect. I don't remember exactly what happened, but I seem

to recall I had to do the bipolar wideband again to " reset " it.

On the other hand, 15-38 inhibits for both sides hasn't seemed to cause any

problems - although like I said, the beta hasn't come down, so who knows if that

would cause a problem if it did. The Assessment tab specifically lists 15-38 as

an option at T3 for hot temporals if the histogram warrants it, so I guess

theoretically it should be safe. Is the idea that since the beta on the left is

already too high, inhibiting that frequency, instead of how you might normally

want to enhance it, would probably be safe?

thanks

[Guest guest]

Bruce,I've uploaded the latest version to the page Files area/files/TLC%20Assessment/

You can download it from there, and it should work like your previous versions but with some additions.  Works with BE or Infiniti.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Bruce Z. Berman <MindFitness@...> wrote:

 

Oh, my! I mean will version 6.4 be made available for infinity users. Currently 6.2 is the highest it goes for us

 

Bruce

Re: hot temporals

 

Disconnect is a serious asymmetry in high beta between the temporal lobes, suggesting that the hippocampus/amygdala on one side is seriously over-reacting to the eyes-closed situation, while the other side is under-activating.  This is almost always a dissociative response related to very early trauma or severe neglect (both in the eyes of the beholder).Hot temporals are related to excessive activity--sometimes on one side but more often on both--in beta and/or high beta showing that the amygdalae are over-responding to either internal or external " threats " .  The amygdalae turn on the sympathetic/adrenal emergency response system. This forces the prefrontal cortex (PFC) to focus on evaluating the " emergency " and turning off the response, thus keeping it from doing more generally useful tasks.  If it happens often enough, the sympathetic response begins to dominate over the parasympathetic (rest & digest--maintenance functions) autonomic responses.  It can also lead to excess cortisol build-up in the temporal lobes and the loss of neurons there and in the hippocampus, causing reduced ability to access memory and to feel things appropriately.  And it can result in adrenal fatigue to the point that the person can no longer respond to potentailly dangerous situations except by freezing.  Of course this derailing of the PFC from its true executive functions can result in fatigue there as well--at least in a breakdown of its performance.I usually train hot temporals based on the patterns that exist there.  Are they only present with eyes closed, or do they show up in eyes-open conditions as well?  Are they primarily in beta (15-22 Hz) or high-beta (23-38) or both?  Are they significantly stronger on one side than the other (though not rising to the level of a disconnect)?  Are the temporals hot--or is the whole brain hot?  Looking at the 6.4 version of the TLC you can see the percent of beta and high beta left and right relative to the average for the entire hemisphere.  Hot temporals which are less than or equal to values in the rest of the hemisphere aren't necessarily hot temporals--they're part of a hot brain!  What kind of alpha appears in the temporals with EC and EO?  Are the temporals highly asymmetrical?Based on these things I may or may not train the temporals first--and I may train them with a bipolar montage (T3/T4) or a one-channel monopolar, or a two-channel squish, sum-difference squish or a windowed squash depending on what I want to do in addition to cooling them down.I do use the subjective assessment with every client I work with.  As I think I covered in the Level2 workshop, I am a strong believer in intervening in the whole system, not just the client's brain.  The subjective gives me a good picture of the parents, spouse, client, etc., and I often use large differentials in the ratings to open the discussion of the homeostatic system in operation (how come dad rates the kid as " trying hard with a few problem areas " and mom rates him as " spawn from hell " ?!)  Often the subjective of the client will show issues that the parents aren't even aware of.  And the summary pages help me to determine if I want to assess an optional site and, if so, which one(s).  It also gives me a great start on a set of training objectives and focuses my interview time by highlighting areas where I want more information.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:39 AM, <> wrote:

I've reviewed my notes and checked the listserve....   I understand what hot temporals are, how to identify them, and how totrain them...but what exactly are they?  A mild form of Disconnect?  A person who has had trauma but hasn't disconnected from reality??ps. The Trainer's Practicum videos are very helpful.  I've been away from TLC for a few years and it is getting me back into the game.  I also noticed that you don't use the Subjective assessment much.  I tried it and, since I work with children and adolescents, the parent had to leave off a number of items that were not relevant. How does that effect the results???

[Guest guest]

Mark,Synchrony is a measure of stable timing relationship between two or more sites.  The closer together the sites are, the easier it is to establish this kind of relationship between them. T3 and T4, for example, are about as far apart as you can get on the brain (unlike, say, F3 and F4 which share a border and are separated by 3-4 inches of cortex.  T3 and T4 aren't that far apart as the crow flies, but crows don't fly through the mid brain in any kind of straight line, and there is no cortical connection between them.  Any signal going from one to the other must pass through the anterior commissure.  It's true that they could both respond to the same sub-cortical rhythm generators, but if you've looked at many assessments, you likely have seen that--short of emg artifact from the masseter muscle--coherences are very low in the temporals as a matter of course.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Mark Baddeley <mbadderl@...> wrote:

Hi Pete et al

I'd be interested if anyone routinely does alpha synchrony training in the

temporals if they are hot? What measures would suggest not to do that?

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hey I'm sorry to jump in on your conversation but I'm really interested in Open Focus training but have been frustrated by the diversity of alpha synchrony bioexplorer designs I have accumulated and the lack of documentation on how to manually adjust them for maximum effect.  I feel that any subsequent conversation in this thread will likely help me but was wondering if anyone would like to share their favorite designs and strategies with myself/the list?

Thanks, ZumbachOn Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:20 PM, thor432001 <MindFitness@...> wrote:

 

Mark this is tangential but related question.

How are you using the alpha synchrony chanel and screens for infinity to train. I see a down training and an up training screen. How are you determining what threshold values to train and for what purposes.

In terms of open focus training what are you setting those thresholds at.

Thanks,

Bruce

>

> Hi Pete et al

> I'd be interested if anyone routinely does alpha synchrony training in the

> temporals if they are hot? What measures would suggest not to do that?

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Pete for your thorough response.  As always you have given me a lot to think about!  I had one more quick follow up about the " Alpha Syn sum minus diff "  design.  What does changing the threshold on the one bar do?  I assume that the bar is connected to bullet one: " 1.  If two signals are perfectly in phase (peaks lined up with peaks and troughs lined up with troughs), then summing their values should result in the highest possible total " .  So would pushing the threshold up from the default 10u to 20u cause feedback to kick in only at higher levels of phase synchronous activity?

Thanks again Pete!

DZ 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:10 AM, pvdtlc <pvdtlc@...> wrote:

 

,I wasn't aware that Les just trained summed amplitudes.  I assumed since Jim Hardt is famous for his complex feedback sounds in multiple speakers that he was using something more sophisticated, but I don't really know.

Most of the TLC designs for synchrony take advantage of the fact that BE allows you to actually MEASURE coherence and phase and provide feedback on them (since synchrony is coherent in-phase activity).  As coherence rises above 60 and phase is within 45 degrees on either side of a 0 phase angle, you get feedback.

I did develop the design you mention based on the following:1.  If two signals are perfectly in phase (peaks lined up with peaks and troughs lined up with troughs), then summing their values should result in the highest possible total.

2.  If two signals are perfectly in phase, then subtracting one from the other (highest signal 1 minus highest signal 2 or lowest signal 1 minus lowest signal 2) should result in the lowest possible values.3.  If two signals are 180 degrees out of phase (peak lined up with trough), summing them should result in a very low value; and

4.  Two signals 180 degrees out of phase will produce a very high amplitude of difference between highest and lowest points.Hence, if you take the sum and subtract the difference, in-phase signsls should produce very high sum minus very small difference, or a large number; signals 180 degrees OUT of phase should produce a very low sum minus a very large difference, or a small number.  Training to increase that value should, theoretically, result in improved (reduced) phase angles and greater synchrony.

There is a 4-channel alpha synchrony design for use with the Alpha 400, the Excalibur or any other 4-channel amp that runs BE which gives feedback based on the actual coherence and phase angle values among the sites.  I've used this a number of times and like it very much, but the mathematically more simple expedient of simply adding up the values (as Les does) or training the value of sum-minus-difference to increase gives simpler feedback.

You could also do a 2-channel bipolar/bipolar montage, like P3/P4/g/C3/C4 and train DOWN alpha values in both channels or summed (which again, theoretically, should result from more in-phase signals.)  A 2-channel squish of 8-12 Hz should do this.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:27 PM, derek_zumbach <zumbach@...> wrote:

I did some digging in the archives and caught a tidbit worth quoting: " Les Fehmi uses a summed alpha across five sites for his open focus training "

The only design I have available that uses this language is a TLC design called: " Alpha Syn sum minus diff " . I don't know if the minus difference portion is in the Open Focus spirit but the similar language caught my eye. Pete is this a Fehmi/Hardt inspired design and if so is there any tweaking that should be done on thresholds as one advances down the road toward a phase difference of zero at say O1/O2?