Re: Configuration Question for QDS Focus?

[Guest guest]

Should be fine, except there's no way for us to know what the Port is that Windows has assigned.  If you turn it on and the Focus connects, the port is correct.If not, right-click the My Computer icon and select Manage

Select Device Manager on the left hand window that opensClick the + in front of Ports in the right window that fills inYou should see the cable listed with a COM port identified.You should never change anything but the COM port in the settings.  Looks like the ones you have listed are the standards.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:11 AM, mom2bee2 <mom2bee2@...> wrote:

 

Hello, I'm setting up a QDS Focus that will be used with

BioExplorer and want to make everything's configured

properly for initial use. I'd really appreciate it

if someone could confirm if the port settings below are

correct.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Pete, for confirming that the port settings are correct.

Windows assigned COM 6 as the port and the Focus connects within

BioExplorer -- which means, so far, so good.

My next question is, are there other configuration settings that

I should check? My reason for asking is that the horizontal output

on the BioExplorer screen doesn't look like I would expect. On

the top window of the TLC Assessment, for example, instead of two

separate lines (red and black) with a mostly horizonal motion, I

see two separate lines (red and black) with a lot more vertical

motion than I would expect. The lines ARE moving forward

horizontally but they rapidly " scribble " over a section 1/4 inch

in width while moving forward, instead of simply moving forward.

The spectrum of frequencies shown in the lower window is changing

as expected, however the values being displayed are very different.

My question is if there's something else in the QDS Focus (or

Windows, or BioExplorer) that I need to configure. Likewise, is

there some way to confirm if the ActiveEEG electrodes are working

correctly? I'm setting up the Focus and the ActiveEEG's for

initial use.

Thanks again,

mom bee

>

> Should be fine, except there's no way for us to know what

> the Port is that Windows has assigned. If you turn it on

> and the Focus connects, the port is correct.

>

> If not, right-click the My Computer icon and select Manage

> Select Device Manager on the left hand window that opens

> Click the + in front of Ports in the right window that fills in

> You should see the cable listed with a COM port identified.

>

> You should never change anything but the COM port in the

> settings. Looks like the ones you have listed are the standards.

>

> Pete

> --

> Van Deusen

> pvdtlc@...

> http://www.brain-trainer.com

> USA 305 433 3160

> BR 47 3346 6235

> The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

> The easiest way to fix this issue in the display is to go to the

> Signal Diagram page. In the Design menu choose " Add Object " and

> pick a Bandpass Filter.

Pete,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question in detail. As

follow-up, I had a chance to debug the problem in person with

my neurofeedback instructor, who had me move my equipment

to a different room in the building, at which point the signal

totally normalized. It turns out the room where I was

is located directly above an office filled with computer equip-

ment and the Focus must have been picking up lots of

environmental " noise. " The signal was also slightly improved

by unplugging my laptop's power cable and running on battery,

but the main thing was to get away from the computer equip-

ment below.

Once we got a usable signal with the Focus (as shown in the

Raw Waverforms window), for comparison purposes using

the same paste-up, we plugged the electrodes into a Pendant

EEG amp. Although signals from Channels 1 and 2 were

comparable between the two amps, there was a big difference

in the spectrogram display. The Focus displayed lots of

activity in the 46 - 60Hz range (as shown in the Spectrum

windows) and the Pendant did not.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Focus

doesn't have internal filters to screen out very low frequencies

or very high ones – including activity above 46 Hz as reported

by the Focus -- and the easiest way to handle the situation is

to set up a bandpass filter to reject frequencies that are out

of range. Along similar lines, is there any way a bandpass

filter could help screen out environmental " noise " ? Some

of the " noise " includes frequencies needed for EEG training,

so I'm assuming the only viable solution is to find a location far

enough away from other computer equipment, lots of electrical

wiring, etc. Is that correct?

Thanks again for your comments and help,

mom bee

beginning EEG home trainer

[Guest guest]

When I first started using QDS equipment I too was startled by the

amount of signal in the higher frequencies. After observing it on

many clients over a period of months I began to realize that it was

more likely that I was seeing information that was suppressed by y

other amplifiers. The only " noise " I was seeing was when I had a less

than robust connection and had excess 60hz activity as noted by hi

peak at 60hz on the spectrogram. I tried multiple ways to fix this

including buying and building shielded electrodes. These all worked

but in the end getting a good connection was the best measure,

The information you see in the higher frequencies may well be normal

activity and not need to be filtered our at all.

georgemartin@...

www.northstarneurofeedback.com

On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:36 AM, mom2bee2 wrote:

>

>> The easiest way to fix this issue in the display is to go to the

>> Signal Diagram page. In the Design menu choose " Add Object " and

>> pick a Bandpass Filter.

>

>

> Pete,

>

> Thanks for taking the time to answer my question in detail. As

> follow-up, I had a chance to debug the problem in person with

> my neurofeedback instructor, who had me move my equipment

> to a different room in the building, at which point the signal

> totally normalized. It turns out the room where I was

> is located directly above an office filled with computer equip-

> ment and the Focus must have been picking up lots of

> environmental " noise. " The signal was also slightly improved

> by unplugging my laptop's power cable and running on battery,

> but the main thing was to get away from the computer equip-

> ment below.

>

> Once we got a usable signal with the Focus (as shown in the

> Raw Waverforms window), for comparison purposes using

> the same paste-up, we plugged the electrodes into a Pendant

> EEG amp. Although signals from Channels 1 and 2 were

> comparable between the two amps, there was a big difference

> in the spectrogram display. The Focus displayed lots of

> activity in the 46 - 60Hz range (as shown in the Spectrum

> windows) and the Pendant did not.

>

> If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Focus

> doesn't have internal filters to screen out very low frequencies

> or very high ones – including activity above 46 Hz as reported

> by the Focus -- and the easiest way to handle the situation is

> to set up a bandpass filter to reject frequencies that are out

> of range. Along similar lines, is there any way a bandpass

> filter could help screen out environmental " noise " ? Some

> of the " noise " includes frequencies needed for EEG training,

> so I'm assuming the only viable solution is to find a location far

> enough away from other computer equipment, lots of electrical

> wiring, etc. Is that correct?

>

> Thanks again for your comments and help,

>

> mom bee

> beginning EEG home trainer

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Remember the Focus samples up to 200 Hz, and is reliable up to 128 Hz due to Nyquist Theorem as our sampling rate is 256.

So the data in the Focus is more robust upwards, after he 50 Hz or 60Hz events.

Warmest Regards

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:50 AM, <gmartin@...> wrote:

When I first started using QDS equipment I too was startled by theamount of signal in the higher frequencies.  After observing it on

many clients over a period of months I began to realize that it wasmore likely that I was seeing information that was suppressed by yother amplifiers.  The only " noise " I was seeing was when I had a less

than robust connection and had excess 60hz activity as noted by hipeak at 60hz on the spectrogram.  I tried multiple ways to fix thisincluding buying and building shielded electrodes.  These all workedbut in the end getting a good connection was the best measure,

The information you see in the higher frequencies may well be normalactivity and not need to be filtered our at all.georgemartin@...

www.northstarneurofeedback.com

On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:36 AM, mom2bee2 wrote:> >> The easiest way to fix this issue in the display is to go to the

>> Signal Diagram page.  In the Design menu choose " Add Object " and>> pick a Bandpass Filter.>>> Pete,>> Thanks for taking the time to answer my question in detail.  As

> follow-up, I had a chance to debug the problem in person with> my neurofeedback instructor, who had me move my equipment> to a different room in the building, at which point the signal> totally normalized.  It turns out the room where I was

> is located directly above an office filled with computer equip-> ment and the Focus must have been picking up lots of> environmental " noise. "  The signal was also slightly improved> by unplugging my laptop's power cable and running on battery,

> but the main thing was to get away from the computer equip-> ment below.>> Once we got a usable signal with the Focus (as shown in the> Raw Waverforms window), for comparison purposes using

> the same paste-up, we plugged the electrodes into a Pendant> EEG amp.  Although  signals from Channels 1 and 2 were> comparable between the two amps, there was a big difference> in the spectrogram display.  The Focus displayed lots of

> activity in the 46 - 60Hz range (as shown in the Spectrum> windows) and the Pendant did not.>> If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Focus> doesn't have internal filters to screen out very low frequencies

> or very high ones – including activity above 46 Hz as reported> by the Focus -- and the easiest way to handle the situation is> to set up a bandpass filter to reject frequencies that are out> of range.  Along similar lines, is there any way a bandpass

> filter could help screen out environmental " noise " ?  Some> of the " noise " includes frequencies needed for EEG training,> so I'm assuming the only viable solution is to find a location far

> enough away from other computer equipment, lots of electrical> wiring, etc.  Is that correct?>> Thanks again for your comments and help,>> mom bee> beginning EEG home trainer

>>>>> ------------------------------------>>

[Guest guest]

I've used the analogy before of an old-fashioned analog-tuner radio with the knob that you turn to move an indicator on the dial.  When you get the center of the frequency of a station, the signal is very clear and the " noise " (static) is weak or inaudible.  All you have to do is get a little off from the center of the station, though, and you start to get static in your signal.  If you are far enough off, you can't really hear the signal--only the noise.

EEG amplifiers work with fairly weak stations (EEG signals measured in millionths of a volt) in the middle of very loud static (electromagnetic fields in the environment.)  The quality of your hookup--how well you prep and how clean your connection between the electrode head and the scalp without a lot of intervening hair, etc.--is the accuracy of your tuning.  The betterr your hookup, the cleaner and stronger the signal and the less you see/hear the " noise " .

Many EEG amps use, in addition to high and low pass filters to cut out very low and very fast frequencies, high input-impedance filters that essentially block the noise altogether.  The Focus also eliminates this, so you don't get a little bit of the staion (the EEG signal) and think you have the whole thing.  You choose a QDS amplifier because you want the cleanest, most accurate signal you can get; you must be willing to pay the price of honing your skills in prepping and placing electrodes.

You also need to pay attention to the environment, as your supervisor showed you.  Using grounded circuits with grounded power plugs, staying away from sources of electromagnetic noise and finding training spaces that give you the least interference are very important.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:36 PM, mom2bee2 <mom2bee2@...> wrote:

 

> The easiest way to fix this issue in the display is to go to the

> Signal Diagram page. In the Design menu choose " Add Object " and

> pick a Bandpass Filter.

Pete,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question in detail. As

follow-up, I had a chance to debug the problem in person with

my neurofeedback instructor, who had me move my equipment

to a different room in the building, at which point the signal

totally normalized. It turns out the room where I was

is located directly above an office filled with computer equip-

ment and the Focus must have been picking up lots of

environmental " noise. " The signal was also slightly improved

by unplugging my laptop's power cable and running on battery,

but the main thing was to get away from the computer equip-

ment below.

Once we got a usable signal with the Focus (as shown in the

Raw Waverforms window), for comparison purposes using

the same paste-up, we plugged the electrodes into a Pendant

EEG amp. Although signals from Channels 1 and 2 were

comparable between the two amps, there was a big difference

in the spectrogram display. The Focus displayed lots of

activity in the 46 - 60Hz range (as shown in the Spectrum

windows) and the Pendant did not.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Focus

doesn't have internal filters to screen out very low frequencies

or very high ones – including activity above 46 Hz as reported

by the Focus -- and the easiest way to handle the situation is

to set up a bandpass filter to reject frequencies that are out

of range. Along similar lines, is there any way a bandpass

filter could help screen out environmental " noise " ? Some

of the " noise " includes frequencies needed for EEG training,

so I'm assuming the only viable solution is to find a location far

enough away from other computer equipment, lots of electrical

wiring, etc. Is that correct?

Thanks again for your comments and help,

mom bee

beginning EEG home trainer

[Guest guest]

> The only " noise " I was seeing was when I had a less than

> robust connection and had excess 60hz activity as noted by hi

> peak at 60hz on the spectrogram.

, are you saying if hi peak on the spectrogram does

NOT reach 60hz and the signal looks normal, that you're

reasonably confident the connection is robust, and that

you're getting a valid signal without noise?

Thanks,

mom bee

[Guest guest]

> Remember the Focus samples up to 200 Hz, and is reliable

> up to 128 Hz due to Nyquist Theorem as our sampling rate is

> 256. So the data in the Focus is more robust upwards, after

> he 50 Hz or 60Hz events.

Dr. Rocatti, it wasn't until reading your post that I realized

the TLC Assessment displays the sampling rate in the upper

right-hand corner of the screen, so I didn't have a chance to

compare the Focus and the Pendant EEG in that way. However I did

notice that bits per second for the Focus varied between about

4800 and 5440, and for the Pendant it stayed close to 1320 or

thereabouts.

Thanks,

mom bee

[Guest guest]

> The betterr your hookup, the cleaner and stronger

> the signal and the less you see/hear the " noise " .

> Many EEG amps use, in addition to high and low pass filters

> to cut out very low and very fast frequencies, high input-

> impedance filters that essentially block the noise altogether.

> The Focus also eliminates this, so you don't get a little bit

> of the staion (the EEG signal) and think you have the whole

> thing. You choose a QDS amplifier because you want the cleanest,

> most accurate signal you can get

Pete, when you say the Focus eliminates noise, do you mean that

when you get a normal-looking signal on the Focus, you're fairly

certain that it's good?

Also, in addition to being careful with prepping/placing electrodes,

are there ways to check that the signals we're getting are valid,

Or to check that our NF equipment is functioning properly? (In

addition to checking resistance on the electrodes...)

Thanks,

mom bee