Re: NF HRV and NIH

[Guest guest]

,Great story!  Don't worry too much about it, though:  in the next decade a physician will " invent " neurofeedback and within 25 years medical science will know what us less-well-educated trainers have been experiencing for a couple decades.

Fortunately our clients don't have to wait--at least the ones who are foolish enough not to make all their healthcare decisions based strictly on what their doctors tell them.BTW, just think how your client will skew the results in favor of whatever medication or medical treatment is being used in the study!

Thanks for sharing,Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Duncan <karenduncan@...> wrote:

I am writing mostly out of frustration.

I see a 9 yr old girl who also happens to be a part of a study at NIH for children with anxiety. When the parents told NIH that they were planning on doing neurofeedback the doctors at NIH waved their hands dismissively and said " oh don't worry, that isn't going to make a difference, do whatever you want " . 

HUH???  So much for the strength of their study.

During the testing process at NIH they discovered she had some sort of serious heart disregularity, a skipping beat of some sort and they way the Mom described it to me was that it could be  " a similar problem to those college athletes that you see who fall down dead on the basketball court of an unknown heart condition " .  This young lady's assessment looks like an adults with some really nice high alpha activation at 10-13 htz which would make one feel proud, however, its not really her alpha at 9 years old, its her hyper-vigilant beta.  Although her peak is about 7.5-8htz (6-9) she doesn't produce hardly any alpha at all, which makes sense and relates to her struggles.

Her goals are all related to calming and relaxation, lessening feelings of panic, separation anxiety from her mother,  phobias (spiders etc..), coping with transitions and feeling overloaded quickly.  When I heard about her " heart condition " , knowing what I know about her goals and having seen her brain I quickly suggested heartmath and loaned her an EmWave device to take home and use.  Over the last 4 months doing neurofeedback and using Heartmath at home her goals are becoming a huge reality, which we are all thrilled about.

So here is my second squawk..

Last week she had another 24 hr EKG to test her heart and they found NO heart problem at all! and the cardiologist is SURPRISED that the disappearance of the heart condition coincides the lessening of her anxiety.  So surprised in fact that he ordered another EKG for 48 hours because he wasn't sure the 24 hour results were correct.

So if the highly educated cardiologists at NIH cant figure out that neurofeedback makes a big difference and the heart rhythm and  feelings/emotions  are connected, then ......I don't know, sigh!!!  Where does the saying " makes your heart skip a beat " come from if the two are not connected ?

Thanks for listening,

~

[Guest guest]

Hi –

Isn’t this just like déjà vu all over again? I’m not

surprised that the NIH doesn’t understand the potential impact of

neurofeedback on the patient(s), but to think they have a pristine study anymore

is just scientifically ridiculous. Sounds to me like their study assumes the

heart (or any organ) is an island of function – and that’s a poorly

designed experiment.

I was an EMT for a long time, and the first thing you learn is

that any patient with possible brain damage has the ability to instantly stop

breathing and/or heartbeat without warning. With a myocardial infarction/blockage,

or other local phenomena, patients can still be alert, breathing and partially

functioning (depending upon severity).  With a stroke (disruption of oxygen to

the brain) everything goes over the hill into arrest so fast it’s hard to

keep up! Patient’s with uncontrollable (by pharmacology) high blood

pressure have been able to reduce or eliminate taking all drugs and return to a

normal BP with neurofeedback ( a partial mimic in pharmacology is

anti-anxiety/stress reduction pills, SSRI’s, etc, with some nasty side

effects). Hmmmmm…

Gee – I think there’s a pattern here. Perhaps the

brain rules…………

See you soon K –

Gene

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of Duncan

Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:23 AM

Subject: NF HRV and NIH

Hi everyone~

I am writing mostly out of frustration.

I see a 9 yr old girl who also happens to be a part of a

study at NIH for children with anxiety. When the parents told NIH that they

were planning on doing neurofeedback the doctors at NIH waved their hands

dismissively and said " oh don't worry, that isn't going to make a

difference, do whatever you want " .

HUH??? So much for the strength of their study.

During the testing process at NIH they discovered she had some sort

of serious heart disregularity, a skipping beat of some sort and they way

the Mom described it to me was that it could be " a similar

problem to those college athletes that you see who fall down dead on the

basketball court of an unknown heart condition " . This young lady's

assessment looks like an adults with some really nice high alpha activation at

10-13 htz which would make one feel proud, however, its not really her alpha at

9 years old, its her hyper-vigilant beta. Although her peak is about

7.5-8htz (6-9) she doesn't produce hardly any alpha at all, which makes

sense and relates to her struggles.

Her goals are all related to calming and relaxation, lessening

feelings of panic, separation anxiety from her mother, phobias

(spiders etc..), coping with transitions and feeling overloaded quickly.

When I heard about her " heart condition " , knowing what I know about

her goals and having seen her brain I quickly suggested heartmath and

loaned her an EmWave device to take home and use. Over the last 4 months

doing neurofeedback and using Heartmath at home her goals are becoming a huge

reality, which we are all thrilled about.

So here is my second squawk..

Last week she had another 24 hr EKG to test her heart and they

found NO heart problem at all! and the cardiologist is SURPRISED that the

disappearance of the heart condition coincides the lessening of her

anxiety. So surprised in fact that he ordered another EKG for 48

hours because he wasn't sure the 24 hour results were correct.

So if the highly educated cardiologists at NIH cant figure out that

neurofeedback makes a big difference and the heart rhythm and

feelings/emotions are connected, then ......I don't know, sigh!!!

Where does the saying " makes your heart skip a beat " come from if the

two are not connected ?

Thanks for listening,

~

" Everything is either an opportunity to grow or an obstacle to

keep you from growing. You get to choose. " Dr. Wayne Dyer

[Guest guest]

Pete~

As far as skewing the results of the study....a done deal!

My 3rd squawk about this whole deal, which I must adopt a Upset Is Optional attitude and know in the end it will all unfold properly, is that the same week the Mom filled out a checklist of symptom changes where at least 10 items were checked as greatly improved or gone completely, the doctor convinced the parents to "try a tiny bit of medicine , for just a very short time".

3 weeks ago when I heard about it the words "oh bummer!" shot out of my mouth before I even knew what I had said.

So as of now changes are continuing but there is no indication that the meds have made any impact yet, according to the parents. This past weekend the child had huge successes in several areas as well as traveling out of state without her mother, (HUGE! HUGE!!!) and the parents credit a 30 minute Heartmath session the night before for helping her with that.

~

"Everything is either an opportunity to grow or an obstacle to keep you from growing. You get to choose."Dr. Wayne Dyer

Re: NF HRV and NIH

,Great story! Don't worry too much about it, though: in the next decade a physician will "invent" neurofeedback and within 25 years medical science will know what us less-well-educated trainers have been experiencing for a couple decades.Fortunately our clients don't have to wait--at least the ones who are foolish enough not to make all their healthcare decisions based strictly on what their doctors tell them.BTW, just think how your client will skew the results in favor of whatever medication or medical treatment is being used in the study!Thanks for sharing,Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Duncan <karenduncancomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

I am writing mostly out of frustration.

I see a 9 yr old girl who also happens to be a part of a study at NIH for children with anxiety. When the parents told NIH that they were planning on doing neurofeedback the doctors at NIH waved their hands dismissively and said "oh don't worry, that isn't going to make a difference, do whatever you want" .

HUH??? So much for the strength of their study.

During the testing process at NIH they discovered she had some sort of serious heart disregularity, a skipping beat of some sort and they way the Mom described it to me was that it could be "a similar problem to those college athletes that you see who fall down dead on the basketball court of an unknown heart condition". This young lady's assessment looks like an adults with some really nice high alpha activation at 10-13 htz which would make one feel proud, however, its not really her alpha at 9 years old, its her hyper-vigilant beta. Although her peak is about 7.5-8htz (6-9) she doesn't produce hardly any alpha at all, which makes sense and relates to her struggles.

Her goals are all related to calming and relaxation, lessening feelings of panic, separation anxiety from her mother, phobias (spiders etc..), coping with transitions and feeling overloaded quickly. When I heard about her "heart condition", knowing what I know about her goals and having seen her brain I quickly suggested heartmath and loaned her an EmWave device to take home and use. Over the last 4 months doing neurofeedback and using Heartmath at home her goals are becoming a huge reality, which we are all thrilled about.

So here is my second squawk..

Last week she had another 24 hr EKG to test her heart and they found NO heart problem at all! and the cardiologist is SURPRISED that the disappearance of the heart condition coincides the lessening of her anxiety. So surprised in fact that he ordered another EKG for 48 hours because he wasn't sure the 24 hour results were correct.

So if the highly educated cardiologists at NIH cant figure out that neurofeedback makes a big difference and the heart rhythm and feelings/emotions are connected, then ......I don't know, sigh!!! Where does the saying "makes your heart skip a beat" come from if the two are not connected ?

Thanks for listening,

~

[Guest guest]

Pete~

Funny you should say a doctor will one day "invent" neurofeedback. Last night while in class my professor who happens to be an acupuncturist mentioned that she recently had a client on her table who worked for NIH and he told her that one of his colleagues at NIH was the one who invented acupuncture. She had to laugh and said she thought acupuncture had been around for thousands of years..... Its amazing what some will take credit for.

~

"Everything is either an opportunity to grow or an obstacle to keep you from growing. You get to choose."Dr. Wayne Dyer

Re: NF HRV and NIH

,Great story! Don't worry too much about it, though: in the next decade a physician will "invent" neurofeedback and within 25 years medical science will know what us less-well-educated trainers have been experiencing for a couple decades.Fortunately our clients don't have to wait--at least the ones who are foolish enough not to make all their healthcare decisions based strictly on what their doctors tell them.BTW, just think how your client will skew the results in favor of whatever medication or medical treatment is being used in the study!Thanks for sharing,Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Duncan <karenduncancomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

I am writing mostly out of frustration.

I see a 9 yr old girl who also happens to be a part of a study at NIH for children with anxiety. When the parents told NIH that they were planning on doing neurofeedback the doctors at NIH waved their hands dismissively and said "oh don't worry, that isn't going to make a difference, do whatever you want" .

HUH??? So much for the strength of their study.

During the testing process at NIH they discovered she had some sort of serious heart disregularity, a skipping beat of some sort and they way the Mom described it to me was that it could be "a similar problem to those college athletes that you see who fall down dead on the basketball court of an unknown heart condition". This young lady's assessment looks like an adults with some really nice high alpha activation at 10-13 htz which would make one feel proud, however, its not really her alpha at 9 years old, its her hyper-vigilant beta. Although her peak is about 7.5-8htz (6-9) she doesn't produce hardly any alpha at all, which makes sense and relates to her struggles.

Her goals are all related to calming and relaxation, lessening feelings of panic, separation anxiety from her mother, phobias (spiders etc..), coping with transitions and feeling overloaded quickly. When I heard about her "heart condition", knowing what I know about her goals and having seen her brain I quickly suggested heartmath and loaned her an EmWave device to take home and use. Over the last 4 months doing neurofeedback and using Heartmath at home her goals are becoming a huge reality, which we are all thrilled about.

So here is my second squawk..

Last week she had another 24 hr EKG to test her heart and they found NO heart problem at all! and the cardiologist is SURPRISED that the disappearance of the heart condition coincides the lessening of her anxiety. So surprised in fact that he ordered another EKG for 48 hours because he wasn't sure the 24 hour results were correct.

So if the highly educated cardiologists at NIH cant figure out that neurofeedback makes a big difference and the heart rhythm and feelings/emotions are connected, then ......I don't know, sigh!!! Where does the saying "makes your heart skip a beat" come from if the two are not connected ?

Thanks for listening,

~