Re: There is no such thing as N.T (edited for error)

[Guest guest]

> , I have yet to encounter a neurotypical person who is not

> superficial. Maybe other people here have, but I have not.

I've met two. That isn't a large number but I'm socially phobic and

don't meet many people. Most people rub me the wrong way. Sometimes I

can't even put my finger on why, it's an intangible thing. Like poor

chemistry. I usually feel it's more my fault than theirs, unless they

are outright judgmental or rude. Also I can't stand conformity and

trendiness. I am probably just as apt to get along with a non-AS non-

conformist as a fellow aspie. Such people do exist. My boyfriend is one

of them.

Kitty

[Guest guest]

Here's what I think needs to be thought about: When does a label

become pejorative?

's concern seems to be that the term " NT " will soon have

negative connotations and negative connotations only.

Once a person is labeled, they are also labeled with everything that

the term means and implies.

His argument makes sense from this perspective.

However, to me, " NT " means anyone who is not on the austistic

spectrum. No more. No less.

The fact that ALL the NTs I have come across are shallow and social

is purely coincidental.

If the term " NT " should come to encapsulate the meaning " anyone not

on the autistic spectrum who is shallow and social " it won't be

entirely through my doing, but it WILL be through the doing of the

AS community as a whole if the majority of the people the AS

community encounters that are not on the autistic spectrum ARE IN

FACT shallow and social, AND it will also be through the doing of

people not on the autistic spectrum who are shallow and social.

Tom

I was already seperated before I ever heard terms like 'NT' or

even 'Asperger'. Whether that's good or bad I can't say. It's just

me.

I don't like labels either. Perhaps I have fallen into a pattern of

using labels and this is something I need to think about.

Kitty

[Guest guest]

> Just look at some of the deep conversations we've all had here and

ask

> yourself when the last time was that you've heard NTs having such

> conversations.

I think this is due to the internet. I can't speak for anyone else, but

I find I only have these kind of discussions online. It feels safe. In

real life I am so quiet I hardly peep. If I heard an interesting

conversation I would not be able to jump in.

Kitty

[Guest guest]

The ultimate truth is beyond words. As soon as you enter the realm of

words, you have sacrificed complete truth for partial views or reality.

Ken

> >

> > (had to do it again as there was a spelling error so I added

> another sentence)

> >

> >

> >

> > N.T is just a confusing thing to me.. Though serves to hold the

> psycho-social construct of aspieness to the parallel of Typicality

> only.

> >

> >

> >

> > If I was a parent and had an A.S child he/she wouldn't be taught

> such things. To me it only separates.. There is no such thing as A.S

> or Aspie either just a person without the in-depth cultural

> reasoning's of the label.

> >

> >

> >

> > I'm not a parent though, but would like additional comments from

> psychological professionals on the board concerning the socio-

> psychopathological effects of this group mentality.

> >

> >

> >

> > Given the conceptual dualisms of the N.T and A.S concepts.

> >

> >

> >

> > - (labeled A.S)

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Ken,

If I lived near you, I would want you for my best friend!

rubenken2000 <rubenken@...> wrote:

The ultimate truth is beyond words. As soon as you enter the realm ofwords, you have sacrificed complete truth for partial views or reality.Ken> > > > (had to do it again as there was a spelling error so I added > another sentence)> > > > > > > > N.T is just a confusing thing to me.. Though serves to hold the > psycho-social construct of aspieness to the parallel of Typicality > only.> > > > > > > > If I was a parent and had an A.S child he/she wouldn't be taught > such things. To me it only separates.. There is no such thing as A.S > or Aspie either just a person without the in-depth cultural > reasoning's of the label.> > > > > > > > I'm not a parent though, but would like additional

comments from > psychological professionals on the board concerning the socio-> psychopathological effects of this group mentality. > > > > > > > > Given the conceptual dualisms of the N.T and A.S concepts.> > > > > > > > - (labeled A.S)> > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links pagein the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." > > > > --------------------------------->

[Guest guest]

If you decide to seek ultimate truth, you are in a very small

minority. This search is inconvenient and not worth much as currency

in the world. I believe it is the only game worth playing. It is a

lonely search, and one can't expect much real company along the way,

not even in spiritual organizations supposedly dedicated to the quest.

Ken

>

> I'm not a parent though, but would like additional comments from

> psychological professionals on the board concerning the socio-

> psychopathological effects of this group mentality.

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

What are you talking about?rubenken2000 <rubenken@...> wrote:

If you decide to seek ultimate truth, you are in a very smallminority. This search is inconvenient and not worth much as currencyin the world. I believe it is the only game worth playing. It is alonely search, and one can't expect much real company along the way,not even in spiritual organizations supposedly dedicated to the quest.Ken> > I'm not a parent though, but would like additional comments from > psychological professionals on the board concerning the socio-> psychopathological effects of this group mentality. > > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links pagein the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." > > > > --------------------------------->

[Guest guest]

I agree. It's TOTALLY obvious that there a GREAT many " NTs " who engage

in LOTS more than " emptiness and superficiality. " To bloviate Aspies

as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and denigrate NTs is just

about as useless and untrue as the reverse.

Actually, Aspies and NTs are probably more alike than they are

different. We can choose to magnify the differences if we want to, but

I don't know if that's very helpful.

Ken

>

> Rather I almost pity them that their lives are so needlessly complex

> and often empty. Sure there are times when they make me angry, but for

> the most part I just try to ignore them.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

" Actually, Aspies and NTs are probably more alike than they are

different. "

I agree.

" We can choose to magnify the differences if we want to, but

I don't know if that's very helpful. "

It CAN be helpful though. There are certain things that only Aspies

have in common, and to deny the joy of sharing those things is not

good for the soul in my opinion. I don't see why we should not

delight in sharing the kindred parts of our spirits.

Tom

[Guest guest]

" I think you are grasping most of what I had intended to say, the

feeling that something is not right something is wrong has more to do

with the group to individual subconscious collective that was / is re-

enforced by the N.T concept. " N.T " as a concept, is something that is

not real. It is something that is hardened in the psyche through

constant influence via a group and its shared belief of. "

I think I understand what you are saying about group concepts - or at

least the concept of it :-) but I feel I have never really belonged

to any kind of group - yes I am part of the human race and many times

I have felt ashamed about that when I see what humans are capbable of.

Yes I am here and part of this group - and yes I suppose I to some

extent make up part of the groups dynamics - but I am just part - me -

I do not know and would question whether I belong to this group - I

am here by choice - I have free will - to my understanding :-)

I'm not sure if I would like any group speaking on my behalf - unless

I gave permission and then I would like control over what is being

said on my behalf. I have let others speak on my behalf in the past -

known and trusted people when I haven't been able to communicate for

myself.

" I have heard " don't trip over your open mind " Sometimes minds can be

too open and or too closed. Though I have no measure of what is

proper concerning just how open or close. "

I have struggled with this concept and people have said that I am too

trusting - too open - too honest - but this is me and I do have some

cynism in my character too - but I do try to keep an open mind. I do

not like to be quick to judge or act hastily, plus I don't always

spot the subtle clues others do in RL.

When I used the term understanding with an open mind - what I was

trying to convey is that some allude to understanding when they do

not and they have beliefs like they understand autism whilst saying

that people with autism do not have emapathy - which clearly is not

the case - I think people need to remain open minded a little and not

so narrow minded. I hope I am expressing myself adequately enough?

I feel as if all communication is fraught with danger and also so

much effort - it seems so hard - it is open to miscommunication and

as my original post said people sometimes read into it something that

is not there and then peoples emotions appear and people get angered

over words - I worry that this has already happened with some :-( but

I have not read all the posts yet.

>

> greebohere

>

> Acceptance? Understanding would be nice too - but probably harder

> come by - possibly the patience to try and understand. Any effort

to

> understand would surely be appreciated if one keeps an open mind?

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Yes, for instance understanding from employers so one can be

employed without overloading from people. Quality of life therefore

is something that is improved through awareness and through awareness

comes rights through understanding, so accommodation.

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------

>

> I think I get what you are saying about NT and AS - it seems a bit

> like them versus us scenario - placing barriers, creating blocks

> rather than unity and working together there is division. Am I on

the

> right lines here to your " something about it just doesn't seem

> right.. " phrase?

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------

>

> I've noticed that some don't like unity, they fight it.. But

without it a cause is nothing.

>

> I think you are grasping most of what I had intended to say, the

feeling that something is not right something is wrong has more to do

with the group to individual subconscious collective that was / is re-

enforced by the N.T concept. " N.T " as a concept, is something that is

not real. It is something that is hardened in the psyche through

constant influence via a group and its shared belief of.

>

> What is and is not of is seldom based upon non-fact and I'm

unable

to process un-factual materials without trying to figure it out.

>

>

>

> Open mind..

>

>

>

> I have heard " don't trip over your open mind " Sometimes minds can

be too open and or too closed. Though I have no measure of what is

proper concerning just how open or close.

>

>

>

> sort of confussing..

[Guest guest]

:

I think if the Aspie/NT dichotomy could be played with total

detachment, it might be a useful tool for empowering the disempowered.

However, total detachment is rare. On the other hand, you're not going

to convince many people to transcend the dichotomy. So the best

outcome would be if people remembered that the dichotomy is only a

tool and doesn't really exist. Yet it does exist in many people's

minds. Paradox. Everything we can talk or write about is paradoxical.

In the Castaneda books, Don reminds that all is

folly. He recommends " controlled folly, " choosing a path with heart

and following it, even though you know its ultimate futility. Your

need to question conventional wisdom is genuine, and valuable to all

who are exposed to it.

Ken

> Self-observe, you are seperating yourself from the rest of humanity

with these false N.T beliefs..

[Guest guest]

Maybe all the non-superficial NTs in the U.S. live on the east or west

coasts.

Ken

>

> It's so very obvious what your saying is not true.. N.T's are not

> superficial just the people you have been witness to might be. Not in

> general it is a sterotype.

[Guest guest]

I agree, Aspergers and NTs probably are more alike than they are different.

Lida

Actually, Aspies and NTs are probably more alike than they aredifferent. We can choose to magnify the differences if we want to, butI don't know if that's very helpful.Ken> > Rather I almost pity them that their lives are so needlessly complex > and often empty. Sure there are times when they make me angry, but for > the most part I just try to ignore them. > > > > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links pagein the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." > > > > --------------------------------->

[Guest guest]

I also know some of them who live in The Netherlands.. can you believe that?????

: )

Lida

Maybe all the non-superficial NTs in the U.S. live on the east or westcoasts.Ken> , I have yet to encounter a neurotypical person who is not > superficial. Maybe other people here have, but I have not.

[Guest guest]

Wow, I am majorly flattered. Same goes for me.

Ken

> > >

> > > (had to do it again as there was a spelling error so I added

> > another sentence)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > N.T is just a confusing thing to me.. Though serves to hold the

> > psycho-social construct of aspieness to the parallel of Typicality

> > only.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If I was a parent and had an A.S child he/she wouldn't be taught

> > such things. To me it only separates.. There is no such thing as A.S

> > or Aspie either just a person without the in-depth cultural

> > reasoning's of the label.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I'm not a parent though, but would like additional comments from

> > psychological professionals on the board concerning the socio-

> > psychopathological effects of this group mentality.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Given the conceptual dualisms of the N.T and A.S concepts.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > - (labeled A.S)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

> >

> > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

> in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm saying that you're on the right track, but don't expect to

convince many people. You're on a lonely track. Most people feel safer

in being tribal and playing the us versus them game. Look at how the

US is polarizing into liberal and conservative camps.

Ken

> >

> > I'm not a parent though, but would like additional comments from

> > psychological professionals on the board concerning the socio-

> > psychopathological effects of this group mentality.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

> >

> > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

> in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree. I think had a point though, and I thought it was great

opportunity to remind myself and others not to become too attached to

the dichotomy.

Ken

>

> " Actually, Aspies and NTs are probably more alike than they are

> different. "

>

> I agree.

>

> " We can choose to magnify the differences if we want to, but

> I don't know if that's very helpful. "

>

> It CAN be helpful though. There are certain things that only Aspies

> have in common, and to deny the joy of sharing those things is not

> good for the soul in my opinion. I don't see why we should not

> delight in sharing the kindred parts of our spirits.

>

> Tom

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, and even a few in Sweden too.

Ken

> > , I have yet to encounter a neurotypical person who is not

> > superficial. Maybe other people here have, but I have not.

[Guest guest]

No! Really?

What a world! Human nature is incredible : )

Oh yes, and even a few in Sweden too.Ken> > , I have yet to encounter a neurotypical person who is not > > superficial. Maybe other people here have, but I have not.FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."